Theological inconsistency

[Faith In God]

Well, he chooses who he saves, they don't decide to be saved.

I am of the opinion that God draws/chooses everyone. Just not everyone responds. God isn't willing that any should perish but that all should come to Him in repentance to be saved.

I certainly prefer that possibility to the alternative but some would disagree.

Some would, and I fervently argue against the teaching.
I can't honestly support it biblically or reasonably.

Whatever, it is still unjust because one man had more time than the other and he otherwise would have gone to hell.

It usually isn't an amount of time that ends up with a saved person: it's usually an event. The amount of time isn't that important. Perhaps God draws more those who live shorter lives. In any case, none are without excuse.

Why should I trust that God is just? How can he be just if he sends people to hell? What is your alternative to this theory about God?

The Bible teaches that He is just. The Bible proves it: if what the Bible says is true, God is just.

And if the Bible is wrong, then I'll trust that God is just.

If I'm wrong and God is unjust, what can I do? The point is, the God of the Bible is just. The minute details that even some Christians want to keep pushing are just technicalities (some which push non-believers away, which makes it worth arguing about) which I can trust God will handle when the time comes.

Now, if you disagree and think the God of the Bible is unjust, I'll try and address that. I didn't see you asking that in that post.

edit: if you want to, just bring up the OP example. Let's try to keep this organized. My bad.

 

[intricatic]

The very fact that we have a conception of justice would imply that God is uniquely and completely just. Justics exists in a perverted state in mankind, because we're all self-serving - even through our attempts to enact justice. In all our good deeds, there exists a duality of goodness and evil; the goodness comes from God, the evil from ourselves. The goodness is the ideal, the evil is the corruption of that ideal.

It might seem strange, but accepting Christ is the same as accepting the ideal. Everyone has the opportunity to seek after God, and God will not turn anyone away so long as they understand why they need to seek Him. That's why I absolutely despise these "fear tactics" people use with Hell. They send mixed signals and cause the people who do have an understanding of why they need that salvation to seek after it for the wrong reasons.

 

[chilehed]

I meant no one is saved accept by the work of Jesus according to your book.

That's correct.

 

[Key]

And Yet..

When you can Undo a lie, I guess you will stop being in Hell.

That should give you some food for thought.

God Bless

Key

So for one sin i will burn forever? That is not justice? Is god forgiving? if so, he only forgives the fortunate and the lucky?

I have no idea what the correlations between these two statements are besides the fact that they ended up on in your post.

Your response to what I have said does not seem to make any sense.

Here is something else for you think about.

If you rape someone, would it matter if that was the only rape you committed? Would it be overlooked because it was your only real crime? The answer is No, it would not.
If Humans would pass no partiality to the breaking of our laws, why should God?

Pity, I am starting to see Matthew 7:6 starting to take form from this discussion.

God Bless

Key

 

[Key]

Whatever, it is still unjust because one man had more time than the other and he otherwise would have gone to hell.

Time makes no difrence. Your days on this earth, to reject or accept God are a gift, not a promise. Each morning that you wake up, was never owed to you. Each day that you live, is a blessing, that you did nothing to deserve. So where is this that God owes you a day of life?

God Knew when each man would have died, so the rest of the deception that you trown out is worthless trash. That serves only to deceive.

God Bless

Key.

 

[Reformationist]

So I can evaluate that information and see if it logically explains the hanus tradgedy of hell.

Okay. As I said, what is it that you want to know? What is it about hell that you don't understand?

Thanks,
God bless

 

[Reformationist]

Well, he chooses who he saves, they don't decide to be saved. I certainly prefer that possibility to the alternative but some would disagree.

Yes, God is the One who chooses who will be saved. Is your issue that you think it's unfair if God is the One who chooses who is saved?

Despite that you may hear that "God draws/chooses everyone but some just don't come," it is not so. There is a general revelation of God in creation that man is universally guilty of attempting to suppress. Regarding the compelling call of God, however, the Bible is explicit:

John 6:37,39
ALL that the Father gives Me WILL come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

Romans 8:30
Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Phil 1:6
He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ

In short, all whom the Father compels to come to the Son actually come and God, fullfilling His promise to complete the good work He starts in us, ultimately glorifies those He calls.

Whatever, it is still unjust because one man had more time than the other and he otherwise would have gone to hell.

Why is that "unjust?" Does a sinner deserve 80 years of life to come to repentence? For that matter, does the sinner deserve to exist in the first place. Where you appear to be getting hung up Jeremiahdavid, is that you assume that God's mercy towards one undeserving sinner obligates Him to be merciful towards all undeserving sinners, lest you see Him as "unjust." It's not "unjust" to not give someone "more time" to repent nor is is "unjust" to mercifully grant someone who doesn't deserve it faith leading to repentence.

Why should I trust that God is just? How can he be just if he sends people to hell?

I'm not sure I understand your question. Condemnation to hell IS the just punishment issued to those who have committed cosmic treason against their Creator.

 

[Faith In God]

No fair. Arguments aren't allowed on here, and Calvinism vs Armenianism is a really big one...

All I have to say is, there are Christians on both sides. If nothing else, there is sense in both sides. There are plenty of interpretations into which the God of the Bible makes sense. It is not like we are at a loss to prove God is a just God.

 

[Jeremiahdavid]

I am of the opinion that God draws/chooses everyone. Just not everyone responds. God isn't willing that any should perish but that all should come to Him in repentance to be saved.

God wills it but he doesn't do it according to "his book."

Some would, and I fervently argue against the teaching.
I can't honestly support it biblically or reasonably.

I can support it reasonably, just not biblically.

Now, if you disagree and think the God of the Bible is unjust, I'll try and address that. I didn't see you asking that in that post.

I'm talking about the God of your bible because he is the only god who sends all non-believers to hell for an eternity.

Your response to what I have said does not seem to make any sense.

If you commit a billion sins and rejecting Jesus isn't on the list, you go straight to heaven. If you commit one sin and it is that you rejected Jesus, you go straight to hell. Does that clear it up?

If you rape someone, would it matter if that was the only rape you committed? Would it be overlooked because it was your only real crime? The answer is No, it would not.
If Humans would pass no partiality to the breaking of our laws, why should God?

There is no virtue in vengeace. It is not justice to punish people out of revenge. It is only justice to keep stop them from doing it again or having them repay a debt to society. If the victem is forgiving, there should be no punsihment.

Time makes no difrence. Your days on this earth, to reject or accept God are a gift, not a promise. Each morning that you wake up, was never owed to you. Each day that you live, is a blessing, that you did nothing to deserve. So where is this that God owes you a day of life?

Time does make a differnce because it quantifies sin. Of course God doesn't owe life, he owes justice to his creation. And if he refuses it, I will do everything in my power to defy him. Cheers to fighting wiht Gods.

God Knew when each man would have died, so the rest of the deception that you trown out is worthless trash. That serves only to deceive.

No, it serves to enlighten. It doesn't matter if God knew when he would die.

Okay. As I said, what is it that you want to know? What is it about hell that you don't understand?

I want to know why it is justice for God to send someone to hell when he at the moment when he created that soul, knew that he would have to make that soul suffer eternally.

Yes, God is the One who chooses who will be saved. Is your issue that you think it's unfair if God is the One who chooses who is saved?

Yes, that is one of my issues.

In short, all whom the Father compels to come to the Son actually come and God, fullfilling His promise to complete the good work He starts in us, ultimately glorifies those He calls.

So God predestined our souls at the moment of their creation and thus is responcible for our actions and the evil of the world.

Why is that "unjust?" Does a sinner deserve 80 years of life to come to repentence? For that matter, does the sinner deserve to exist in the first place. Where you appear to be getting hung up Jeremiahdavid, is that you assume that God's mercy towards one undeserving sinner obligates Him to be merciful towards all undeserving sinners, lest you see Him as "unjust." It's not "unjust" to not give someone "more time" to repent nor is is "unjust" to mercifully grant someone who doesn't deserve it faith leading to repentence.

So God grants the lucky to eternity with him?

I'm not sure I understand your question. Condemnation to hell IS the just punishment issued to those who have committed cosmic treason against their Creator.

It is not cosmic treason to not accept Jesus.

 

[Faith In God]

I don't know which of those questions are cleared up by this answer, but to reject Jesus isn't any more sin than any other sin (it could be argued whether it was a sin to begin with).

No one is sent to hell for not believing in Jesus. Anyone going to hell is sent there to pay for sin. Believing (loaded word) in Jesus is a method of payment provided by God. It is a way out. That doesn't mean you go to hell for not believing in Jesus.

 

[Key]

There is no virtue in vengeance. It is not justice to punish people out of revenge. It is only justice to keep stop them from doing it again or having them repay a debt to society. If the victim is forgiving, there should be no punishment.

Even if no charges are pressed by the "victim" there can still be charges filed by the state and the government and even outside agencies against the prep .In many cases, human justice systems are punishment for the sake of deterring others who might try the same. There is no hope for some people, like sociopaths for example. [/COLOR]

What should we do with them?

Time does make a differnce because it quantifies sin. Of course God doesn't owe life, he owes justice to his creation. And if he refuses it, I will do everything in my power to defy him. Cheers to fighting wiht Gods.

Time makes no difference. Some day you will truly grasp that.

And he owes us Justice? God does not owe us anything, He Give and promised us Justice, he never owed it to us. Just as God does not owe us heaven, or anything else for that matter. How you feel you deserve anything from God is the ultimate stance of self pride and ego.

If God for no reason at all, just decided “Oh you will go to heaven and you will go to hell” based on arbitrary decisions, it’s well within his right to do so, the very idea that God has given us a way to heaven, is a Gift, not something owed, or something we deserve. It’s truly the part where you loose the whole thing. Maybe you get into your mind that you should go heaven, or that God should pay special attention to you, give special treatment to people. That’s so very sad. Because you fail to realize just what an amazing Gift that it is that god would allow a single one of us wrenched sinners into heaven. That there is even a path by which we can get into heaven, and that this Path was laid down before us, in such a way.

Here is better idea.

Tell me, what you have done, that would make you deserving of Heaven. What have you done (or what can you do) that would impress the creator of the Universe to look down form the Heavens and declare “This one is worthy to be by my side” I so what to hear this.

However, the very idea that God owes anything.

Time only quantifies sin, if you choose to sin with the time you are given.

Time and Sin and Salvation are all mutually exclusive.

If you refuse Salvation, today, you refused it, end of the story. If you do not live to tomorrow, that makes no less the fact that with the time you had, however long or short it may have been, you chose to refuse salvation during it.

No, it serves to enlighten. It doesn't matter if God knew when he would die.

This is where you are wrong. It matters completely that God knew when he would die.

See God knew that he would never accept Jesus Tomorrow, because he would never live to see tomorrow. It's a paradox.


But, But, But, he was GOING to Accept God TOMORROW......... (you might protest to me)

I say to you “Umm. No, No he was not! “

WHY? (you might ask)

The answer is: “Because God knew he was not going to be alive tomorrow”

This is not a hard or complicated thing to grasp.

That man HAD NO TOMORROW. So it would and was impossible for there to have been a "Would accept God Tomorrow" it never was going to happen.

I want to know why it is justice for God to send someone to hell when he at the moment when he created that soul, knew that he would have to make that soul suffer eternally.

How is it love that your parents gave birth to you, knowing that it would kill you?

It is not cosmic treason to not accept Jesus

True, but so what?

God Bless

Key

 

[Jeremiahdavid]

I don't know which of those questions are cleared up by this answer, but to reject Jesus isn't any more sin than any other sin (it could be argued whether it was a sin to begin with).

I agree, but most of you Christians would suggest that rejecting Jesus is worthy of death but all other sins are forgivable.

No one is sent to hell for not believing in Jesus. Anyone going to hell is sent there to pay for sin. Believing (loaded word) in Jesus is a method of payment provided by God. It is a way out. That doesn't mean you go to hell for not believing in Jesus.

It's the same thing except you're twisting around the words. It is unjust for God to send someone to hell for an eternity for the small things that we as humans do (not that all are small but all are small when compared to hell). And not only that, but when God made us, he knew the sins that we would commit and yet he created us anyway knowing that he would have to send us to hell. That's like making someone greedy and then punishing them for stealing. It is unjust.

Even if no charges are pressed by the "victim" there can still be charges filed by the state and the government and even outside agencies against the prep. In many cases, human justice systems are punishment for the sake of deterring others who might try the same. There is no hope for some people, like sociopaths for example.

You think that just because the government does it, it is right. You're supposed to forgive people and it is the greatest method of justice because if someone understands the sympathy they have been given by their vicim then they will examine themselves rather than looking at the tyrannous government. And sociopaths? I'm not a psychologist but I believe that all fear, mental problems, physical problems, and everything else can be overcome. Find a way to reintegrate them into society.

And he owes us Justice? God does not owe us anything, He Give and promised us Justice, he never owed it to us. Just as God does not owe us heaven, or anything else for that matter. How you feel you deserve anything from God is the ultimate stance of self pride and ego.

I refuse to believe God is evil, and as I said, if he is, I will defy him. To be good includes being just.

Tell me, what you have done, that would make you deserving of Heaven. What have you done (or what can you do) that would impress the creator of the Universe to look down form the Heavens and declare “This one is worthy to be by my side” I so what to hear this.

I have done nothing that is deserving of Heaven. I have also, done nothing that is deserving of Hell.

If you refuse Salvation, today, you refused it, end of the story. If you do not live to tomorrow, that makes no less the fact that with the time you had, however long or short it may have been, you chose to refuse salvation during it.

So you think its justice for God to give us a minute to distinguish him from a crowd of gods and then sentence us to hell for sins which are nothing by comparison.

See God knew that he would never accept Jesus Tomorrow, because he would never live to see tomorrow. It's a paradox.

God knew that had he lived, he would of accepted Jesus tomorrow, it is not a paradox. In the same way, if a bomb is defused 3 minutes before it is suposed to explode, we still know what would have happened. God knows every alternative situation if he knows anything at all.

That man HAD NO TOMORROW. So it would and was impossible for there to have been a "Would accept God Tomorrow" it never was going to happen.

I don't believe in predestiny, I believe in foreknowledge.

How is it love that your parents gave birth to you, knowing that it would kill you?

Because life is worth death even if there is nothing more than life in this reality. Now answer the question.

True, but so what?

So no one has commited "cosmic treason" and thus, hell is unjust.

 

[Jim47]

No one is sent to hell for not believing in Jesus. Anyone going to hell is sent there to pay for sin. Believing (loaded word) in Jesus is a method of payment provided by God. It is a way out. That doesn't mean you go to hell for not believing in Jesus.

I agree, but most of you Christians would suggest that rejecting Jesus is worthy of death but all other sins are forgivable.

It's the same thing accept your twisting around the words. It is unjust for God to send someone to hell for an eternity for the small things that we as humans do(not that all are small but all are small when compared to hell). And not only that, but when God made us, he knew the sins that we would commit and yet he created us anyway knowing that he would have to send us to hell. That's like making someone greedy and then punishing them for stealing. It is unjust.

No one is going to tell you that you don't have a right to your beliefs, but that doesn't mean that they are true, as what you have said is clearly unscriptural and very dangerous thinking.

Jesus Himself said: "I am the way, the truth and the light, No one comes to The Father except by Me". Other scriptures:


Ac 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: "Rulers and elders of the people!
Ac 4:9 If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a cripple and are asked how he was healed,
Ac 4:10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.
Ac 4:11 He is
" ‘the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the capstone.’
Ac 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."


You see, God created the heavens and earth, we are His and everything in creation is His. Is it right for the created to say to The Creator you are unfair and unjust?

I refuse to believe God is evil, and as I said, if he is, I will defy him. To be good includes being just.

I have done nothing that is deserving of Heaven. I have also, done nothing that is deserving of Hell.

If you refuse to believe God is evil than how is is it that you accuse Him of being unjust?



Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God.
I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,
Isa 45:6 so that from the rising of the sun
to the place of its setting
men may know there is none besides me.
I am the LORD, and there is no other.
Isa 45:7 I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things.
Isa 45:8 "You heavens above, rain down righteousness;
let the clouds shower it down.
Let the earth open wide,
let salvation spring up,
let righteousness grow with it;
I, the LORD, have created it.
Isa 45:9 "Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker,
to him who is but a potsherd among the potsherds on the ground.
Does the clay say to the potter,
‘What are you making?’
Does your work say,
‘He has no hands’?
Isa 45:10 Woe to him who says to his father,
‘What have you begotten?’
or to his mother,
‘What have you brought to birth?’
Isa 45:11 "This is what the LORD says—
the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker:
Concerning things to come,
do you question me about my children,
or give me orders about the work of my hands?
Isa 45:12 It is I who made the earth
and created mankind upon it.
My own hands stretched out the heavens;
I marshaled their starry hosts.
Isa 45:13 I will raise up Cyrus in my righteousness:
I will make all his ways straight.
He will rebuild my city
and set my exiles free,
but not for a price or reward,
says the LORD Almighty."

 

[MinDach]

2Cr 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succored thee: behold, now [is] the accepted time; behold, now [is] the day of salvation.)

How many Now does a person need? God is just, one day you will stand in front of God, and then what will you say, sorry God I just did not have time. It to late then, that's why he say's TODAY, for tomorow it may be to late.

 

[MinDach]

knowing that he would have to send us to hell.

He does not send you to Hell, you send your self there, for you were born in Sin like we all are, WHY do you think CHRIST died on the cross, To Pay the Price for Sin. All you have to do is Except it. Then your sin is gone, like it never was there. What a great Price God Paid for you, and if you turn your back on it, what more could God do to save You. Nothing!! more he can do.

 

[Faith In God]

He does not send you to Hell,

[bible]Revelation 10:20[/bible]Be careful on how you word things...

The Bible talks about "choosing life", it does not talk about "choosing hell". If you were to ask most people, they wouldn't say that if they had a choice they'd "choose" to go to hell. They might not choose Christ, but they won't choose hell.

Just a side-note...

 

[Key]

STOP ESCAPING THE QUESTION! Ok, just for you, we'll twist this up a bit. If someone commits a billion sins and refjecting Jesus isn't on the list, they go to heaven. If someone commits a million sins, and rejecting is on the list, that person goes straight to hell.

Umm first off, Rejecting Jesus is not a Sin, just FYI.
Lets say for the sake of argument and this whole “The Eviler Guy Gets to heaven” junk.

Two people commit the same number of Sins.
One Repents his Sinful way, and Accepts Jesus as his Lord and Savor.
The other Does not.
Question.
Does the one who did not repent deserve to go to Hell?
Does the one that did repent deserve to go to Heaven?

Here is another question: The one that is unrepentant. Do they deserve to go anyplace but Hell?

Where does someone who have broken Gods Holy Laws, and does not repent or feel the least bit of shame for their actions deserve to go?

That is the most laughable thing I've heard. You think that just because the government does it, it is right. You're supposed to forgive people and it is the greatest method of justice because if someone understands the sympathy they have been given by their victem then they will examine themselves rather than looking at the tyrannous government. And sociopaths? I'm not a pychologist but I believe that all fear, mental problems, physical problems, and everything else can be overcome. Find a way to reintegrate them into society.

Why should we expect of God what we humans do not provide or live with?

And Yes, you are not a Psychologist, please take a moment to look up what a Sociopath is. http://www.9types.com/wwwboard/messages/18332.html

By all means, show this person forgiveness, I am sure it will be well wasted. But that is the type of person that stands before God, having committed the sins they committed, and has no feelings of remorse or repenting of their actions.

Jesus is your way to Heaven, God has given you and all others a way in. If you do not accept it then who is to blame?

God did provide you way. Not a fun one, and it’s quite hard to tell the truth. There are times when I just want to……. Well, never mind that… But it’s hard…

I refuse to believe God is evil, and as I said, if he is, I will defy him. To be good includes being just.

The fact that there is even one of us that could make it to heaven, shows that God is more forgiving then we could have ever imagined him to be.

To even grasp the Idea that God would come down and pave a path to heaven for us with his blood and flesh, well, that goes beyond being Good, and becomes Divine. Hence Why he is God.

Even today, with all the rejection you have tossed about, all the anger and desire to paint God into a ugly picture, God still has Given you a way to Heaven.

That is a Great Gift to you. There is a way, abet hard, but still a way.

Hell is for those that Reject him, Be what ever Hell is or is Not.

I have done nothing that is deserving of Heaven. I have also, done nothing that is deserving of Hell.

You deserve Hell, because you have done nothing to merit Heaven. Just as Do I.

So you think its justice for God to give us a minute to distinguish him from a crowd of gods and then sentence us to hell for sins which are nothing by comparison.

Crowed of God?

There is only one God. It should not take Long. I can grasp the problems you might have with Jesus, But, there really is only one God.

God knew that had he lived, he would of accepted Jesus tommorrow, it is not a paradox. In the same way, if a bomb is defused 3 minutes before it is poised to explode, we still know what would of happened. God knows every alternative situation if he knows anything at all.

God either knew he would die, or did not.

If he did not, your not talking about the God of the Bible.

If he did, this is pointless deceit.

I don't believe in predestiny, I believe in foreknoledge.

And God knew he would die.

Because life is worth death even if there is nothing more than life in this reality. Now answer the question.

Because, it was worth it, I would Guess.

Do you not enjoy the time you have to challenge/rebuke/test Gods Followers?

When you die, Will this life and all the Sins you have Enjoyed be Worth Hell?

I Guess, because God Knew/Knows that to those that do end up in Hell, it was worth it to them.

If it not worth it you, then you need to reevaluate your path in life.

So no one has commited "cosmic treason" and thus, hell is unjust.

Well, yah, about that, “someone” did commit ‘Cosmic Treason”, He was just not “Human” there was this Guy, we call him Satan, but his name is Lucifer.

Just to clear that up for you.

Have I provided you what you are looking for?

God Bless

Key

 

[Jeremiahdavid]

No one is going to tell you that you don't have a right to your beliefs, but that doesn't mean that they are true, as what you have said is clearly unscriptural and very dangerous thinking.

The bible is what I am evaluating here. I'm not trying to extract a new way of thinking from the bible. I fail to see how God is just through the bible.

Jesus Himself said: "I am the way, the truth and the light, No one comes to The Father except by Me". Other scriptures:

I know this scripture from memory but it is an unreasonable thing of God to say. It makes me wonder if the Jews or Catholics added this in at one point.

You see, God created the heavens and earth, we are His and everything in creation is His. Is it right for the created to say to The Creator you are unfair and unjust?

If he is unfair and unjust then yes. I don't believe he is unjust because that wouldn't make any since and I believe that the only way our God is unfair is if Gnostic Christianity is true and he is an evil God allowed to exist by a perfect God.

If you refuse to believe God is evil than how is is it that you accuse Him of being unjust?

I acuse your God of being unjust but I believe that the true God has to be just.

How many Now does a person need? God is just, one day you will stand in front of God, and then what will you say, sorry God I just did not have time. It to late then, that's why he say's TODAY, for tomorow it may be to late

To answer the first sentence; I will say this, I did everything I could to find you, but find you I did not. If salvation is based on a mere guessing game I will not guess, but I will search regardless of what is about finding the truth. Why is it right for God to say, you have heard my name,yet you have not bowed to me. How then, can I be certain that after bowing to Jesus I will find that Mohammed is the true messenger and Allah, the God. Then he will say to me, you must repent for your evil in hell. If there is no way to distinguish one God from the others how then can God expect us to choose him from a crowd?

He does not send you to Hell, you send your self there, for you were born in Sin like we all are, WHY do you think CHRIST died on the cross, To Pay the Price for Sin. All you have to do is Except it. Then your sin is gone, like it never was there. What a great Price God Paid for you, and if you turn your back on it, what more could God do to save You. Nothing!! more he can do.

What do you mean, "all we have to do is except it." Dear Creator, If Jesus is lord, I except. If mohammed is lord, I except. If budha is lord, I except. If brahman is lord, I except. If the wiccan god is lord, I except. If pluto is lord, I except. If Ra is lord, I except. This is my little insurance just in case any of these are true. Now, I go to heaven no matter what. Yay, religion insurance.

Do you get my point? I have to find out who is lord, to except him as my lord.

 

[Jeremiahdavid]

Does the one who did not repent deserve to go to Hell?
Does the one that did repent deserve to go to Heaven?

No, both times.

Here is another question: The one that is unrepentant. Do they deserve to go anyplace but Hell?

Yes. He deserves to be dealt with as if he is valuable to God and not worthless trash.

Why should we expect of God what we humans do not provide or live with?

Because God must be perfect.

And Yes, you are not a Psychologist, please take a moment to look up what a Sociopath is. http://www.9types.com/wwwboard/messages/18332.html

It can be overcome. If not, he has no reason to live.

By all means, show this person forgiveness, I am sure it will be well wasted. But that is the type of person that stands before God, having committed the sins they committed, and has no feelings of remorse or repenting of their actions.

So you believe people are incapable of progress?

Jesus is your way to Heaven, God has given you and all others a way in. If you do not accept it then who is to blame?

Ummmmm, there's no fault present. Just because I failed to pick God from a crowd?

Hell is for those that Reject him, Be what ever Hell is or is Not.

So once again, it is our fault we fail to pick God from a crowd of Gods.

You deserve Hell, because you have done nothing to merit Heaven. Just as Do I.

Why is it heaven or hell. Why can god not simply give us time to evolve as a people.

Crowed of God?

Yes, and a hell of a big crowd it is. Even if Jesus is slightly different then other Gods, what makes him the definite God?

If he did, this is pointless deceit.

Would you chop off the last statement and stop tripping yourself over my words. Why is it a pointless deciet?

And God knew he would die.

So? He still made Person#1 go to heaven regardless of the fact that he was less deserving.

Because, it was worth it, I would Guess.

So he makes some suffer, so that he and his believers can enjoy bliss. What a crappy God!

Do you not enjoy the time you have to challenge/rebuke/test Gods Followers?

I'm looking for answers and not circular arguments. I am not challenging, rebuking, or testing you. I am looking for answers to questions. I am looking for a reason why God would seem to be this sort of God.

When you die, Will this life and all the Sins you have Enjoyed be Worth Hell?

If hell is what I will get, no. The sins neither provide enough pleasure nor inflict enough pain to merit hell.

I Guess, because God Knew/Knows that to those that do end up in Hell, it was worth it to them.

***! It wasn't worth it to me. And it isn't worth it to my brothers of uncertainty.

If it not worth it you, then you need to reevaluate your path in life.

Why should I assume that your God is the God. I don't want hell. Nothing on earth is worth it and the only people who believe otherwise are the satan worshippers and rock listeners who believe that hell is one big druken party and or orgy.

Well, yah, about that, “someone” did commit ‘Cosmic Treason”, He was just not “Human” there was this Guy, we call him Satan, but his name is Lucifer.

Just to clear that up for you.

Yes but just because we choose not to go on a whim and follow Jesus doesn't mean that we are choosing to assist Satan in that. I would never join satan unless he truly was the freedom fighter but God needs to send a clear message to people. If you want to follow Satan, go to hell. If you want to follow me. Follow me to heaven. God has not given us a clear and loud message. If he expects people to follow him, he should.

Have I provided you what you are looking for?

Some and some not.

 

[Key]

Yes but just because we choose not to go on a whim and follow Jesus doesn't mean that we are choosing to assist Satan in that. I would never join satan unless he truly was the freedom fighter but God needs to send a clear message to people. If you want to follow Satan, go to hell. If you want to follow me. Follow me to heaven. God has not given us a clear and loud message. If he expects people to follow him, he should.

He Did, with a Wooden Cross and Three Nails.

And if you would demand more then that from God Almighty, or any God for that Matter, to say that when they sacerfice themslves so that you will have a chance to go to Heaven and be with then was NOT Enough,well send me a post card from Hell or where ever you feel the Rejects shoudl go, because No "God" or "Goddesss" would have you, or anyone that would demand as much.

Believe what you Will, if Jesus comming Down and Giving you Chance for Salvation is the Act of an Evil God in your Mind, so be it.

and I tire of your slectived method of quoting me, in which you miss the entire points provided, and provied an even more confusing responce.

In Service Always

God Bless
Key