Theological inconsistency

[Jeremiahdavid]

But you are gambling with your soul right now as it is. Why should tomorrow be any diffrent?

Right now I'm doing the best I can with the knowledge I have. If I were God, I would ask no more than this.

The Road to Hell is Paved with our Actions. Being Unsure or Humble won't send you to hell.

Being a Sinner will.

God Bless

Key

Great! 6000 years ago someone messed up and for it I will burn in hell forever!

And God would say to you "Who are you oh mighty man that you set in judgement of Me?"

God does not want you or your unbelieveing friends to perish, but you have to first stop acting like you are God. God only makes Himself known to those who are humble of heart. He looks down on the proud as utter follishness. If you want to know God and understand Him than humble yourself to Him and submit to His will.

You think I havn't allready done this? Every night I pray to God with a humble voice and with my face on the ground. He doesn't respond to this! He ignores this if he's up there at all!

 

[Jeremiahdavid]

Well, I'm not sure that you're ready to fully address this issue of sovereign election because it seems that you are already in a state of rebellion against the authority of God.

Enlighten me anyway. Just for the heck of it.

Ignorance has never been an excuse, though many try to employ

it as a means for exaltation.

If you ever truly desire to explore the riches of God's mercy toward man, please feel free to let us know.

God bless

I do desire these riches. I beg God for them everyday therefore I repeat myself, " Enlighten me."

 

[Jeremiahdavid]

So depending on the circumstances, the guy who got hit by the car may not burn after all. But if he makes it into heaven, it'll be entirely because of Jesus' work on the cross.

As opposed to it not being entirely Jesus' work?

 

[Sketcher]

Great! 6000 years ago someone messed up and for it I will burn in hell forever!

Actually, if you were to die and go to hell right now, you don't need Adam's sin to be counted against you. You've got enough sins of your own.

 

[Jeremiahdavid]

A. I'm not assasinating anyone here. I humbly pray to God every day and I don't understand him and nothing that you guys are sharing with me(aside from that zoastrian mention) has helped me see God as anything but a tyrant.

B. I didn't choose my sinful blood, and without it, I wouldn't sin. Adam chose for me. I have sins of my own, but I only choose them because Adam chose weakness over strength for his children.(including me)

 

[Sketcher]

B. I didn't choose my sinful blood, and without it, I wouldn't sin. Adam chose for me. I have sins of my own, but I only choose them because Adam chose weakness over strength for his children.(including me)

Even if Adam had chosen obedience, we would still be made of the same stuff he was made of, and that includes the possibility of failure. Unlike Reformationist, I believe in free will and that would have bitten humanity somewhere down the line. You need to take responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming Adam for everything. He may be the goat of the human race, but cursing him and cursing God because of him won't get you anywhere.

 

[Jeremiahdavid]

You called God evil.

I said this because my fellow Agnostics are very open to this and if God didn't act on this openness it would force me to wonder who gave him the right to be God. I think if God exists, he will either convert me and my brothers to him or he is evil and unmerciful.

Even if Adam had chosen obedience, we would still be made of the same stuff he was made of, and that includes the possibility of failure. Unlike Reformationist, I believe in free will and that would have bitten humanity somewhere down the line. You need to take responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming Adam for everything. He may be the goat of the human race, but cursing him and cursing God because of him won't get you anywhere.

I acknowledge that I make mistakes on my own and that without Adam, I still might. But, the things I do over my lifetime can never be deserving of eternal damnation. That's a way to extreme punishment and it makes no logical sence.

 

[chilehed]

As opposed to it not being entirely Jesus' work?

I'm not sure I understand.

Most Protestants I know take "there is no other name by which man is saved but Jesus" and "accept Jesus and you shall be saved" to mean that if the poor slobs who lived in Borneo or the Amazon rainforest 1800 years ago didn't hear about Jesus, they're still toast even though it's not their fault they never heard the gospel.

Bu that's reading something into the text that isn't there. If someone gets into heaven, it's because of Jesus even if they didn't know it before they got there. And although you're not preaching the gospel if you speak of a different Jesus, you also can't be culpable of rejecting the gospel if you heard a false one. And there are a number of ways for that to happen.

 

[Reformationist]

Jeremiah, for your benefit, let me clarify one Protestant's position. I submit that there are people for whom Christ died that God never brings to a saving knowledge of His work. I tell you up front that I cannot provide explicit biblical support for that belief but, through study of God's Word, I have come to believe it to be so. The caveat to this belief is that this group of people who are saved by the work of Christ without any knowledge of His atoning work is limited to those who die in infancy and, probably, those with mental handicaps. Let me clarify that I am not advocating, nor do I espouse a belief in an "age of accountability" that so many Christians proclaim. Such a thing is never spoken of in the Bible and, in truth, the only age of accountability to the Law of God is the second of our conception. IOW, we become accountable to God's Law from the minute we start existing.

Again, to clarify, the Bible never teaches that a person's ignorance of the Gospel or their virtuous act of "seeking God with a sincere heart" plays any part in the basis for their forgiveness. The only sacrifice that appeases the wrath of God against the sins of man is the work of Christ. And, the Bible is clear that those who don't know God are not indwelt with the Spirit of God and those who are not of God do not seek to do the will of God.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

Enlighten me."

Well, I will certainly give it a shot. What is it that you want to know and, more importantly, why do you want to know it?

Thanks,
God bless

 

[Reformationist]

Actually, if you were to die and go to hell right now, you don't need Adam's sin to be counted against you. You've got enough sins of your own.

Nicely done.

 

[Key]

I acknowledge that I make mistakes on my own and that without Adam, I still might. But, the things I do over my lifetime can never be deserving of eternal damnation. That's a way to extreme punishment and it makes no logical sence.

When you can Undo a lie, I guess you will stop being in Hell.

That should give you some food for thought.

God Bless

Key

 

[Key]

Right now I'm doing the best I can with the knowledge I have. If I were God, I would ask no more than this.

...That's all any gambling casino would ask of you, but loosing is no less loosing no matter if you knew the rules of Not.

The US Suprime Court has ruled that Ignorance of the Law is not an excuse for breaking it.

If you fellow Humans would make no allowances for Ignorance, Why should God?

God Bless

Key

 

[Key]

B. I didn't choose my sinful blood, and without it, I wouldn't sin. Adam chose for me. I have sins of my own, but I only choose them because Adam chose weakness over strength for his children.(including me)

Every Sin you commied, you commited willingly.

You could have chsoen not to sin, but you didn't and it was not because of some person named "Adam" who may or may not have lived a really long time ago.

It was because you Chose to Sin, and you alone.

God Bless

Key.

 

[Faith In God]

First of all, I'de like to say, Forum rule # 6 is the stupidist thing I ever heard of and I almost left this forum for good as a result of it, but I seriously need this question answered by christians.

God is Just isn't he? It would seem he is not. This is why.

Suppose a man is brought up in an American Christian household and has thousands of oppurtunities to accept Jesus, but instead, he accepts him on his deathbed. Then, there is another man, he is given one oppurtunity to accept Jesus, doesn't, and then is hit by a car. But (God would know) he was going to accept Jesus tomorrow on his second opputunity. This is injustice becaus if I understand correctly he would be sent to hell as a result of not accepting the first time, yet the other man who had plenty of opputunities, gets to go to heaven with nothing more than shame of knowing that he forsaked God in the majority of his life. The second man deserves more than the first man, yet he recieves infinitely less. This is God being unjust and I don't see how that's possible for God, and this is one major reason I'm reluctant to declare belief in God.

By the way, I can't stay long to talk of this, but I will be here tomorrow.

To put off the Holy Spirit means to deny Him.
You can't call up a repentant heart.

To say "I'll do it tomorrow" is saying "I will not do it today".

The man on his deathbed?
...
I don't know about that. People who put off God all their lives usually can't come back. Again, you can't call up the Holy Spirit to draw your heart.

God is just. He gives everyone opportunity, I believe.

If God is ever unjust, He is unjust on the side of mercy. If you recall the illustration of the workers in the vineyard (I believe it was a vineyard ) some worked all day for a day's wages, some worked half the day, some worked an hour.
Time ran out.
The master paid the wages due to the men who worked all day and then paid the others (who didn't work as much) a full day's wages. Unjust?
Perhaps, but it is an err on the side of mercy: God is being too good!



BTW, whatever "hell" is, you can trust God isn't going to do more than what is necessary to satisfy justice. When the saved see God's judgment on sinners, not one will be able to say "God, that's kinda harsh, isn't it?" (And it's not because our brains are taken away: if anything they are enhanced).

 

[intricatic]

A. I'm not assasinating anyone here. I humbly pray to God every day and I don't understand him and nothing that you guys are sharing with me(aside from that zoastrian mention) has helped me see God as anything but a tyrant.

B. I didn't choose my sinful blood, and without it, I wouldn't sin. Adam chose for me. I have sins of my own, but I only choose them because Adam chose weakness over strength for his children.(including me)

You only have sin because you chose sin, not necessarily because Adam chose to corrupt all those who come after him.

Adam opened the possibility, we make the choice.

 

[Jeremiahdavid]

I'm not sure I understand.

Most Protestants I know take "there is no other name by which man is saved but Jesus" and "accept Jesus and you shall be saved" to mean that if the poor slobs who lived in Borneo or the Amazon rainforest 1800 years ago didn't hear about Jesus, they're still toast even though it's not their fault they never heard the gospel.

Bu that's reading something into the text that isn't there. If someone gets into heaven, it's because of Jesus even if they didn't know it before they got there. And although you're not preaching the gospel if you speak of a different Jesus, you also can't be culpable of rejecting the gospel if you heard a false one. And there are a number of ways for that to happen.

I meant no one is saved accept by the work of Jesus according to your book.

 

[Jeremiahdavid]

Well, I will certainly give it a shot. What is it that you want to know and, more importantly, why do you want to know it?

So I can evaluate that information and see if it logically explains the hanus tradgedy of hell.

When you can Undo a lie, I guess you will stop being in Hell.

That should give you some food for thought.

God Bless

Key

So for one sin i will burn forever? That is not justice? Is god forgiving? if so, he only forgives the fortunate and the lucky?

To say "I'll do it tomorrow" is saying "I will not do it today".

No, I'm talking about someone who is isolated here. Someone who doesn't have but one oppurtunity and no time to think about it.

You only have sin because you chose sin, not necessarily because Adam chose to corrupt all those who come after him.

Adam opened the possibility, we make the choice.

No, I don't think so. Otherwise, someone would have chosen perfection besides god.

 

[Faith In God]

So I can evaluate that information and see if it logically explains the hanus tradgedy of hell.


So for one sin i will burn forever? That is not justice? Is god forgiving? if so, he only forgives the fortunate and the lucky?

God can save to the uttermost.

And, no, you will not "burn forever".

No, I'm talking about someone who is isolated here. Someone who doesn't have but one oppurtunity and no time to think about it.

No time? That's a joke. There's always time for salvation. Practically all of Jesus' disciples left their entire livelihoods to follow Christ.

I am of the conviction that God, at some point in their lives, draws all men to Him. There are plenty of scenarios which show God is just. I trust Him to be so.

 

[Jeremiahdavid]

God can save to the uttermost.

And, no, you will not "burn forever".

Well, he chooses who he saves, they don't decide to be saved. I certainly prefer that possibility to the alternative but some would disagree.

No time? That's a joke. There's always time for salvation. Practically all of Jesus' disciples left their entire livelihoods to follow Christ.

I am of the conviction that God, at some point in their lives, draws all men to Him. There are plenty of scenarios which show God is just. I trust Him to be so.

Whatever, it is still unjust because one man had more time than the other and he otherwise would have gone to hell.

Why should I trust that God is just? How can he be just if he sends people to hell? What is your alternative to this theory about God?