Theological basis for inclusivism

[sdowney717]

The problem with this citation of John 14:6 is that it ignores the context. Jesus is talking about knowing the Father. Jesus is God's presence, and is the only way to come to know God. But when we know God, we know that he loves everyone. And Jesus is the savior of the whole world.

Sure, but he is the savior whereby we receive eternal life, but is only for those who believe in Christ.
For the world, Christ can still be the savior as He is in control of all things by whom and for whom all things consist, He holds their very breath in His hands. Some are healed only to die later. All are eternally dead, in a state of death, until He makes you alive in Christ.
You can be saved in a temporal sense too, as in saved alive from some disaster, but still not have eternal life.

Matthew 8:22
But Jesus said to him, “Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”

 

[sdowney717]

You can not have eternal life unless you know God and Christ. This Christ taught as inseparable.
John 17:3
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

 

[hedrick]

Sure, but he is the savior whereby we receive eternal life, but is only for those who believe in Christ.
For the world, Christ can still be the savior as He is in control of all things by whom and for whom all things consist, He holds their very breath in His hands. Some are healed only to die later. All are eternally dead, in a state of death, until He makes you alive in Christ.
You can be saved in a temporal sense too, as in saved alive from some disaster, but still not have eternal life.

Matthew 8:22
But Jesus said to him, “Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”

You're saying that John uses salvation to mean something temporal, and not eternal life? That seems unlikely.

 

[sdowney717]

You're saying that John uses salvation to mean something temporal, and not eternal life? That seems unlikely.

I am thinking of that verse that says this
1 Timothy 4:10
For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
Not any verse in John.

You have a messed up doctrine if you think God saves anyone apart from Christ.
You can not have eternal life unless you know the Father and the Son both, each reveals the other together they are as one. Note v22. The Son is the one who reveals the Father to whom He wills, and then a person will know both God and Christ and be saved.
Luke 10
Jesus Rejoices in the Spirit
21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.

22 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”

YOU CAN NOT KNOW the FATHER WITHOUT the CHRIST

 

[hedrick]

A couple of indications that there are provisions for those who didn't know about Jesus:

Act 10:30: While God has overlooked the times of human ignorance, now he commands all people everywhere to repent
Rom 3:25: whom God put forward as a sacrifice of atonement by his blood, effective through faith. He did this to show his righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over the sins previously committed

Both of these seem to speak about the period before Jesus, but you would think it would also apply at least to people who haven't been reached.

 

[Mustaphile]

Jesus is talking about knowing the Father. Jesus is God's presence, and is the only way to come to know God. But when we know God, we know that he loves everyone. And Jesus is the savior of the whole world.

That is a very encouraging view.

I often find that peoples vision of God reveals who they are as a person. It is as if God fills the space of their ability to perceive and from there, they annunciate that God is all that they have perceived. No more, no less.

God created them so, so they must have a purpose. It is a test of inclusivity that a reasonable man can appreciate the purpose of the unreasonable.

 

[Philip_B]

It is a test of inclusivity that a reasonable man can appreciate the purpose of the unreasonable.

I see no need for a 'reasonable man test' to be applied to the Lord of all Creation. I will however say that who God has mercy on is above my pay grade. I know we are told that those who call upon the Lord will be saved. There is due cause for Christians to be confident without being arrogant. However grace is ineffable (unable to be spoken) and I am not about to tell God to whom he should not extend mercy, less he extend it not to me.

Father forgive us our trespasses as we forgive

the arms of the cross reach right around the globe​

 

[sdowney717]

I see no need for a 'reasonable man test' to be applied to the Lord of all Creation. I will however say that who God has mercy on is above my pay grade. I know we are told that those who call upon the Lord will be saved. Their is due cause for Christians to be confident without being arrogant. However grace is ineffable (unable to be spoken) and I am not about to tell God to whom he should not extend mercy, less he extend it not to me.

Father forgive us our trespasses as we forgive

the arms of the cross reach right around the globe​

That is correct, God extends His mercy to whom He will, as He told Moses and Paul also uses that scripture to make the point it does not depend on man who runs the race of life but God who shows mercy. And there is no unrighteousness with God as all of mankind are fallen creatures who sin.

Salvation is of the Lord! In its entirety, a gift of God to an individual person whom He called. To those He extended His mercy, He called, He showers them with the riches of His glory, and this HE prepared beforehand for them. We who believe and are saved were foreknown to Him in love to become the people of God.

Romans 9
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[Anto9us]

Rom 2:14
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Rom 2:15
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Rom 2:16
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.


It may be sort of awkward to apply this to inclusivism, but then again, it may not.

 

[sdowney717]

Rom 2:14
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Rom 2:15
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Rom 2:16
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.


It may be sort of awkward to apply this to inclusivism, but then again, it may not.

'Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another' , is no indication of innocence before God, those people actually excuse their own behavior.

For confirmation, what did Adam and Eve say when confronted with their sin, they blamed it on someone else.
In Scripture it clearly says this

Romans 3:18-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

 

[sdowney717]

And John 3 is clear about who are shown God's anger and wrath against them, they will not have eternal life, they will die

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.
36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

If you do not believe the WORD here, then you deny the Lord Jesus.