THEOCRACY/THEARCHY - Past And Future

[Der Alte]

You hide behind your list of references and stubbornly refuse to answer my simple question. I asked you repeatedly regarding Matt 25:46 whether the sheep nations who enter the Millennial kingdom do so for 1,000 years or for eternity? And your answer is?? I hear the Jeopardy theme song playing in the background as your time is almost up.

Do you even read my posts or do you just see my name and copy/paste some canned response? Go back and read my posts I answered that question in detail. And for the umpteenth time nothing you have ever posted refutes any of my posts. Nothing!
Revelation 20:6 has absolutely no bearing on Matthew 25:46. I explained it in my post. [#67]

 

[Oldmantook]

Do you even read my posts or do you just see my name and copy/paste some canned response? Go back and read my posts I answered that question in detail. And for the umpteenth time nothing you have ever posted refutes any of my posts. Nothing!
Revelation 20:6 has absolutely no bearing on Matthew 25:46. I explained it in my post.

Time is up as the Jeopardy theme song has ended!!
Your brought up Rev 20:6 as your straw man argument. I did not cite Rev 20:6 but instead only cited Matt 25:46 which you have abysmally failed to my simple question. Why is that Der Alter? So much for your false doctrine as all scripture must be conform to one's doctrine. Matt 25:46 remains a thorn in your side.

 

[Der Alte]

Time is up as the Jeopardy theme song has ended!!
Your brought up Rev 20:6 as your straw man argument. I did not cite Rev 20:6 but instead only cited Matt 25:46 which you have abysmally failed to my simple question. Why is that Der Alter? So much for your false doctrine as all scripture must be conform to one's doctrine. Matt 25:46 remains a thorn in your side.

Rubbish You have not now or ever refuted anything I posted. You can't. Here is where you cited Rev 20:6

"dividing the people into sheep and goats (Matt 25:31-33). In v.34 the sheep inherit the kingdom and enter into the millennial age. Since the milllennial age by definition is 1,000 years, the sheep to into "age-during/aiōnion" life."
Link to post.
THEOCRACY/THEARCHY - Past And Future​

 

[Scott Husted]

I would attempt to answer your question if I understood what you were asking. More clarification, detail needed.

After the heavenly Jerusalem is revealed at the end of the book there still remains without the city ... dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Why? ... if there is a new heaven and earth and the old ones have fled away, and there was no place found for them?

Sorry but this is almost identical to my first post to you, #72

 

[Scott Husted]

Thank you for sharing.

Care to take a crack at this below (if no that is fine to) since really all this stuff is merely ones perception of it, and mostly a cumulative view of what people have read or heard others say ... I've studied scripture for over forty years now, not books about scripture mind you, literally just a bible and strongs concordance. And have been born again as they say much longer. But the reason I studied was to know him as a present truth, as Jesus had said the time now is, and am of the mind that if it doesn't cause you to love God and people more then it's not from him to begin with. Besides God can show you more in a moment than all those who have ever lived can show you in a life time.

After the heavenly Jerusalem is revealed at the end of the book there still remains without the city ... dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Why? ... if there is a new heaven and earth and the old ones have fled away, and there was no place found for them?

 

[GospelS]

Care to take a crack at this below (if no that is fine to) since really all this stuff is merely ones perception of it, and mostly a cumulative view of what people have read or heard others say ... I've studied scripture for over forty years now, not books about scripture mind you, literally just a bible and strongs concordance. And have been born again as they say much longer. But the reason I studied was to know him as a present truth, as Jesus had said the time now is, and am of the mind that if it doesn't cause you to love God and people more then it's not from him to begin with. Besides God can show you more in a moment than all those who have ever lived can show you in a life time.

After the heavenly Jerusalem is revealed at the end of the book there still remains without the city ... dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Why? ... if there is a new heaven and earth and the old ones have fled away, and there was no place found for them?

Hello @Scott Husted thanks for asking.

My understanding is that heavenly Jerusalem, new heaven and earth will come after 1000 years (of reigning of The Son of God on earth).

 

[Scott Husted]

Hello @Scott Husted thanks for asking.

My understanding is that heavenly Jerusalem, new heaven and earth will come after 1000 years (of reigning of The Son of God on earth).

I don't disagree with this in one form, but my question is ... what about what is outside the city after it comes down from God out of heaven? After the mystery of God is finished. The spirit and the very city (bride) say come, and whoever hears, they are encouraged to say come, and whoever is thirsty as well are encouraged to drink of the water of life freely now, not sometime in the future ...

 

[GospelS]

I don't disagree with this in one form, but my question is ... what about what is outside the city after it comes down from God out of heaven? After the mystery of God is finished. The spirit and the very city (bride) say come, and whoever hears, they are encouraged to say come, and whoever is thirsty as well are encouraged to drink of the water of life freely now, not sometime in the future ...

"Outside the city" is present only during the 1000 year reign of the Son of God here on earth.

There is no "outside" after 1000 year reign is completed. All/whole that there will be is the new earth and new heaven coming together as one, when heavenly Jerusalem comes down at the center of that new heaven and new earth.

 

[Scott Husted]

"Outside the city" is present only during the 1000 year reign of the Son of God here on earth.

There is no "outside" after 1000 year reign is completed. All/whole that there will be is the new earth and new heaven coming together as one, when heavenly Jerusalem comes down at the center of that new heaven and new earth.

Yet the scripture still says after all these things are done ... Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

 

[Der Alte]

"Outside the city" is present only during the 1000 year reign of the Son of God here on earth.
There is no "outside" after 1000 year reign is completed. All/whole that there will be is the new earth and new heaven coming together as one, when heavenly Jerusalem comes down at the center of that new heaven and new earth.

That is not what the Bible says.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand year
Revelation 21:1
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Revelation 22:11
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Revelation 22:14
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.​

The converse of this verse is "they that do NOT do his commandments, they do NOT have right to the tree of life, and may NOT enter in through the gates into the city."

Revelation 22:15
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Revelation 22:18
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Revelation 22:19
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Two more verses then "The End."​

 

[GospelS]

Yet the scripture still says after all these things are done ... Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

They are outside but they won't remain outside the city forever, for they will experience second death. No "outside" will be needed anymore after second death. Then heavenly city will come down, and there will only be new earth and new heaven.

 

[Scott Husted]

They are outside but they won't remain outside the city forever, for they will experience second death. No "outside" will be needed anymore after second death. Then heavenly city will come down, and there will only be new earth and new heaven.

Though I know this might be a conversation ender ... for me the end of the book is not the end of the book, and why in the last few verses the invitation to enter into the city and to drink of the water of life without cost is a narrative that begins in the first garden depicted as one God plants eastward in Eden, or eternal pleasure.

To me the end or the beginning are not events, but the same one truth, just as the Bible (to me) is comparable to a garment without seam; a cohesive narrative of the process of the coming to the reality of the one son we are.

 

[GospelS]

Though I know this might be a conversation ender ... for me the end of the book is not the end of the book, and why in the last few verses the invitation to enter into the city and to drink of the water of life without cost is a narrative that begins in the first garden depicted as one God plants eastward in Eden, or eternal pleasure.

To me the end or the beginning are not events, but the same one truth, just as the Bible (to me) is comparable to a garment without seam; a cohesive narrative of the process of the coming to the reality of the one son we are.

Of course! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Oldmantook]

After the heavenly Jerusalem is revealed at the end of the book there still remains without the city ... dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Why? ... if there is a new heaven and earth and the old ones have fled away, and there was no place found for them?

Sorry but this is almost identical to my first post to you, #72

Why don't you just read the verse before it? Read it and tell me how you think it applies to v.15. I won't do your work for you. Give me your explanation if you have one and I'll give you mine.

 

[Oldmantook]

Rubbish You have not now or ever refuted anything I posted. You can't. Here is where you cited Rev 20:6

"dividing the people into sheep and goats (Matt 25:31-33). In v.34 the sheep inherit the kingdom and enter into the millennial age. Since the milllennial age by definition is 1,000 years, the sheep to into "age-during/aiōnion" life."
Link to post.
THEOCRACY/THEARCHY - Past And Future​

Rubbish is your favorite word when you can't come up with an adequate answer. How can the sheep enter into aiōnion life during the millennium which according to you means forever when the millennium by definition is only 1,000 years? Still waiting for your answer. All you offer is obfuscation.

 

[Der Alte]

Rubbish is your favorite word when you can't come up with an adequate answer. How can the sheep enter into aiōnion life during the millennium which according to you means forever when the millennium by definition is only 1,000 years? Still waiting for your answer. All you offer is obfuscation.

Scripture?

 

[Oldmantook]

Scripture?

What?? Don't you even understand the discussion? YOU CITED Matt 25:46 as a proof text for your belief that aionion life means eternal life and aionion punishment means eternal punishment in this verse. I then pointed out to you that the verse when examined in its proper context refers to the sheep-goat judgment which occurs at Jesus' second coming. In v.34 Jesus invites those people in the sheep nations who are alive at his coming to enter into the kingdom. What kingdom do you suppose that is? The Millennial kingdom is inaugurated at Jesus' return and lasts for 1,000 years - NOT for an eternity as you allege. Thus it is impossible for aionion to mean eternal in Matt 26:46. Comprende?

 

[Der Alte]

What?? Don't you even understand the discussion? YOU CITED Matt 25:46 as a proof text for your belief that aionion life means eternal life and aionion punishment means eternal punishment in this verse. I then pointed out to you that the verse when examined in its proper context refers to the sheep-goat judgment which occurs at Jesus' second coming. In v.34 Jesus invites those people in the sheep nations who are alive at his coming to enter into the kingdom. What kingdom do you suppose that is? The Millennial kingdom is inaugurated at Jesus' return and lasts for 1,000 years - NOT for an eternity as you allege. Thus it is impossible for aionion to mean eternal in Matt 26:46. Comprende?

"The Millennial kingdom is inaugurated at Jesus' return and lasts for 1,000 years - NOT for an eternity as you allege." Scripture?
Greek has always been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who better than the native Greek speaking EOB translators know the correct meaning of, e.g. “aionios” and “kolasis?”
Note that Paul uses “aionios” and “aidios” as synonyms, Rom 1:20 and 1 Tim 1:17, below.
The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96
In 9 verses, Jesus defines “aionios.” Jesus used the word “aionios” 29 times, Jesus never used “aionios” to refer to something which cannot be eternal.
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: a much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
1 Timothy 1:17 Now, to the eternal [των αιωνων/tōn aiōnōn] King. immortal. invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory unto ages of ages. Amen.

 

[Oldmantook]

"The Millennial kingdom is inaugurated at Jesus' return and lasts for 1,000 years - NOT for an eternity as you allege." Scripture?
Greek has always been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who better than the native Greek speaking EOB translators know the correct meaning of, e.g. “aionios” and “kolasis?”
Note that Paul uses “aionios” and “aidios” as synonyms, Rom 1:20 and 1 Tim 1:17, below.
The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96
In 9 verses, Jesus defines “aionios.” Jesus used the word “aionios” 29 times, Jesus never used “aionios” to refer to something which cannot be eternal.
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: a much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
1 Timothy 1:17 Now, to the eternal [των αιωνων/tōn aiōnōn] King. immortal. invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory unto ages of ages. Amen.

It's obvious that you have continued to ignore my question. Why the refusal Der Alter?? Is Matt 25:46 an inconvenient truth for you? All you do is blindly post your pet copy and paste list without even bothering to explain how aionion in Matt 25:46 means eternal when it cannot be because aionion refers to a limited age of 1,000 years at the sheep-goat judgment. Keep replying to me and I'll keep asking you the same question which you go to great lengths to avoid answering in order to desperately cling to your belief. That way all who read our discussion will be wonder why you refuse to answer my simple question.

 

[Der Alte]

It's obvious that you have continued to ignore my question. Why the refusal Der Alter?? Is Matt 25:46 an inconvenient truth for you? All you do is blindly post your pet copy and paste list without even bothering to explain how aionion in Matt 25:46 means eternal when it cannot be because aionion refers to a limited age of 1,000 years at the sheep-goat judgment. Keep replying to me and I'll keep asking you the same question which you go to great lengths to avoid answering in order to desperately cling to your belief. That way all who read our discussion will be wonder why you refuse to answer my simple question.

What part of this question do you not understand? Scripture for this statement "The Millennial kingdom is inaugurated at Jesus' return and lasts for 1,000 years - NOT for an eternity as you allege." Your accusation is meaningless because you fail to explain this. I have asked it more than once and you have avoided it every time. I'll understand if you don't have an answer.
I don't copy/paste dood. That implies using another's work as my own without identifying the source. Everything I post is my own work after more than 2 decades here responding to the same questions/arguments over and over and over etc.