Theistic Evolutionist...

[lesliedellow]

Evolution is a scientific theory.

Theistic Evolution is a philosophical interpretation of that theory which includes a supernatural being as the cause.

A theory that includes a supernatural being makes it unscientific.

The theory does not include a super natural being. The philosophical interpretation postulates that God exists, and that he made use of Evolution to bring homo sapiens into being, but the interpretation is not part of the theory.


It is a historical fact that Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians in 587BC. The Bible interprets that fact as being the result of God's displeasure. The fact is unaffected by whether or not the interpretation is correct.

 

[Loudmouth]

The difference is that atheists feel less tempted to claim that thermodynamics invalidates the Bible.

This atheist doesn't feel that evolution, geology, or astronomy invalidates the Bible. However, it does invalidate creationism, which isn't the same thing.

Also, when the scientific theory of evolution first emerged it wasn't presented as invalidating the Bible. It was the theists, creationists in particular, who decided that evolution invalidated the Bible.

I have used this quote before, so I apologize if this is somewhat redundant.

"It can hardly be supposed that a false theory would explain, in so satisfactory a manner as does the theory of natural selection, the several large classes of facts above specified. It has recently been objected that this is an unsafe method of arguing; but it is a method used in judging of the common events of life, and has often been used by the greatest natural philosophers ... I see no good reason why the views given in this volume should shock the religious feelings of any one. It is satisfactory, as showing how transient such impressions are, to remember that the greatest discovery ever made by man, namely, the law of the attraction of gravity, was also attacked by Leibnitz, "as subversive of natural, and inferentially of revealed, religion." A celebrated author and divine has written to me that "he has gradually learnt to see that it is just as noble a conception of the Deity to believe that He created a few original forms capable of self-development into other and needful forms, as to believe that He required a fresh act of creation to supply the voids caused by the action of His laws."

— Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species (1859)

It is interesting to note that some Christians even had a problem with Newton's formulation of gravity where it is portrayed as machine-like, removing God from a place of power over nature.

Consequently, the adjective atheistic is never implicitly present when thermodynamics is mentioned, and there is no corresponding need for the "theistic" qualifier.

It is also worth mentioning that creationists use malformed ideas about thermodynamics to try and disprove evolution, but that is probably a topic for another thread.

 

[AV1611VET]

This atheist doesn't feel that evolution, geology, or astronomy invalidates the Bible.

This creationist feels they can't.

Unless, of course, people allow them to.

 

[Doveaman]

"It can hardly be supposed that a false theory would explain, in so satisfactory a manner as does the theory of natural selection, the several large classes of facts above specified..."

— Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species (1859)

"It can certainly be supposed that a false theory would explain, in so satisfactory a manner as does the theory of natural selection, the several large classes of facts above specified if the facts above specified are made to fit the theory..."

— Doveaman, The Origin of Pseudoscience (2015)

 

[Doveaman]

The theory does not include a super natural being. The philosophical interpretation postulates that God exists, and that he made use of Evolution to bring homo sapiens into being, but the interpretation is not part of the theory.


It is a historical fact that Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians in 587BC. The Bible interprets that fact as being the result of God's displeasure. The fact is unaffected by whether or not the interpretation is correct.

The Bible interprets the facts of Jerusalem's fall as being caused by God.

The philosophical interpretation postulates that God is the cause of homo sapiens' evolution from apes.

Cause and effect are an integral part of the scientific method.

You cannot postulate the effects/evolution while conveniently ignoring the cause/God.

You have to establish the link between evolution and God in order for it to be scientific.

 

[lesliedellow]

"It can certainly be supposed that a false theory would explain, in so satisfactory a manner as does the theory of natural selection, the several large classes of facts above specified if the facts above specified are made to fit the theory..."

— Doveaman, The Origin of Pseudoscience (2015)

If you had read Origin of The Species you would know what the facts being alluded to are, and how they were obtained, but, of course, that is one thing creationists are always most careful not to do.

 

[AV1611VET]

If you had read Origin of The Species you would know what the facts being alluded to are, and how they were obtained, but, of course, that is one thing creationists are always most careful not to do.

We already know the Origin of species on the earth.

And just out of curiosity, what is meant by THE SPECIES in the title of the book?

 

[freezerman2000]

.

 

[lesliedellow]

We already know the Origin of species on the earth.

Have you read Origin of the Species? More to the point, has Doveaman?

And just out of curiosity, what is meant by THE SPECIES in the title of the book?

It means the various species of plants and animals which are, or have been, at various times present on Earth.

 

[AV1611VET]

Have you read it?

No -- have you?

The full title of the book is:

On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life.

There is no THE SPECIES in the title.

 

[lesliedellow]

No -- have you?

The full title of the book is:

On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life.

There is no THE SPECIES in the title.

Stop being pedantic. Origin of The Species is a widely used abbreviation.

 

[AV1611VET]

Origin of The Species is a widely used abbreviation.

Show me.

 

[lesliedellow]

Show me.

Google it yourself.

 

[AV1611VET]

Google it yourself.

I did.

Even putting it in quotes.

It seems this 'widely used abbreviation' isn't so widely used.

 

[lesliedellow]

I did.

Even putting it in quotes.

It seems this 'widely used abbreviation' isn't so widely used.

I am sure you found it listed.

 

[AV1611VET]

I am sure you found it listed.

Yes ... pertaining to Porsches.

 

[lesliedellow]

Yes ... pertaining to Porsches.

Indeed. You must be using a search engine other than Google then.

 

[AV1611VET]

Indeed. You must be using a search engine other than Google then.

Well ... you know ... since your abbreviation is so "widely known," I would assume it wouldn't matter what search engine I used.

Would it?

 

[PsychoSarah]

"It can certainly be supposed that a false theory would explain, in so satisfactory a manner as does the theory of natural selection, the several large classes of facts above specified if the facts above specified are made to fit the theory..."

— Doveaman, The Origin of Pseudoscience (2015)

The facts aren't made to fit the theory at all. If that were the case, we would still think that large brains evolved before standing upright, or that whales evolved solely from aquatic creatures. There are moments when evolution seems counterintuitive, and these moments would have been swept under the rug if people were actively trying to make evolution seem more consistent and reliable than it actually is.

 

[Neogaia777]

Christians not only believe God acts through nature. Christians also believe nature acts through God.

Antimetabole?