Theistic Evolution is not Supported by the Scripture!?

[2Pillars]

Not true. THere is much evidence of civilization long prior to Mesopotamia. Try Catal Huyuk in Turkey.

Previous Quote 2Pillars: The History of Human Civilization began in the Cradle of Civilization, in Mesopatamia. From there came math, writing, commerce, technology, etc. All of the things which we call Human Civilization, Today.

Dear grmorton,

Perhaps, what you're confuse about are the discoveries of the remains of the so called "pre-historic beings" by our scientist, but, called "sons of God" by the Lord (Gen. 6).

Would that be the case?

God Bless



God Bless

 

[Vance]

Ah, so you pick a date, say all people after than date are "humans" and all people before that date, even though they have identical bodies, and show a clear progression of cultural development right up to the people after your dividing line (ie, no noticeable gap or break, just a flowing of one into the other), are something OTHER than humans?

 

[versastyle]

Dear versastyle,

Did it occur to you that Scripture was even showing us how a "surgical procedure" (simile) should be done (Book of Genesis), even before science discovered the pain killers you are talking about? That's is of course based upon one's spiritual understanding.

Yeah. I'm incahoots with the dark side. Thats gotta be the reason.

 

[2Pillars]

Ah, so you pick a date, say all people after than date are "humans" and all people before that date, even though they have identical bodies, and show a clear progression of cultural development right up to the people after your dividing line (ie, no noticeable gap or break, just a flowing of one into the other), are something OTHER than humans?

Perhaps, Vance could not comprehend the fact that Adams' direct lineage have the knowledge of good and evil and were mighty men -- while the so called "pre-historic beings called by our scientist were not.

 

[YahwehLove]

so what planet was Noah from?

well I remember something bout boys and mars and girls and jupiter

 

[herev]

Mike, I always knew you and I would whole-heartedly agree on something--I'm speechless, too

WOW this topic leaves me speechless. (and that's hard to do)

 

[Vance]

Perhaps, Vance could not comprehend the fact that Adams' direct lineage have the knowledge of good and evil and were mighty men -- while the so called "pre-historic beings called by our scientist were not.

I am not sure why I am bothering, but what is the evidence for your belief that pre-historic "beings" were not human, and had no knowledge of good and evil? I mean, really, the evidence, not just a restatement of your theory. And not even just the Bible verses that you think support this theory, but the actual evidence that all the hunter/gatherer societies which lived before 10,000 years ago were not human.

If it is just a theory, and you have no real evidence, fine, then we can move on.

 

[mhess13]

Mike, I always knew you and I would whole-heartedly agree on something--I'm speechless, too

Must be a full moon or something. In another forum that I frequent, I agreed with an evolutionist today

 

[herev]

sounds like maybe Jesus is coming back soon?

Must be a full moon or something. In another forum that I frequent, I agreed with an evolutionist today

 

[2Pillars]

I am not sure why I am bothering, but what is the evidence for your belief that pre-historic "beings" were not human, and had no knowledge of good and evil? I mean, really, the evidence, not just a restatement of your theory. And not even just the Bible verses that you think support this theory, but the actual evidence that all the hunter/gatherer societies which lived before 10,000 years ago were not human.

That's the point, Vance. There was NO agriculture nor any other signs of Human Intelligence anywhere else in the Whole Earth. If Mindless Nature could produce Human Intelligence, it would have done so MILLIONS of years BEFORE Noah arrived.

Just as happened on the 1st Earth, agriculture and city building were the first signs of Human Intelligence. NO Evolution was necessary except descent with modification, or MicroEvolution.

Mankind changed from prehistoric to Human just AFTER Noah arrived on this Planet. Civilization was born just South of the Mountains of Ararat, exactly as God told us.

Are you ready to admit your TE's doctrinal errors?

 

[2Pillars]

Must be a full moon or something. In another forum that I frequent, I agreed with an evolutionist today

I realize that what I post is controversial, but I also realize that it agrees not only with Scripture, but also with TRUE Science, and History. I do not write the things I write to cause others, problems, but I write to cause others to read and study Scripture, and to see that God's Word is the Truth in every way.

God Bless

 

[grmorton]

Previous Quote 2Pillars: The History of Human Civilization began in the Cradle of Civilization, in Mesopatamia. From there came math, writing, commerce, technology, etc. All of the things which we call Human Civilization, Today.

Dear grmorton,

Perhaps, what you're confuse about are the discoveries of the remains of the so called "pre-historic beings" by our scientist, but, called "sons of God" by the Lord (Gen. 6).

Would that be the case?

God Bless



God Bless

No, I rarely confuse mere human beings with some sort of pre-Adamic creation. There is absolutely no break between civilizations of the times I speak and Mesopotamian civilization.

I would have a question for you. Exactly where in the Bible does it say that the 'sons of God' were living in Catal Huyuk, or Mureybet? It seems that there are a lot of assumptions in going from Genesis 6 to Catal Huyuk. And a lot of adding to the Bible. Besides, if there was a flood which deposited the geology, why weren't those cities literally washed away? Perchance are you confused about how to handle evidentiary matters?

 

[grmorton]

Perhaps, Vance could not comprehend the fact that Adams' direct lineage have the knowledge of good and evil and were mighty men -- while the so called "pre-historic beings called by our scientist were not.

Precisely what characteristics would you associate with humans that are not associated with these 'pre-historic beings'? As has been pointed out, they look like us, they make cities like us. How do you tell them apart from us? Are some of them living amongst us today?

Later you wrote:

That's the point, Vance. There was NO agriculture nor any other signs of Human Intelligence anywhere else in the Whole Earth. If Mindless Nature could produce Human Intelligence, it would have done so MILLIONS of years BEFORE Noah arrived.

If you would look at http://home.entouch.net/dmd/chron.htm you will find the earliest examples in the archaeological record for various human activities. This chart was developed precisely for people like you who make observationally outrageous claims. Mesopotamia was 5000 years ago so this is the reference mark. We see what you say doesn't exist long before 5000 years. Gold jewelry appears around 6000 years ago, wine at 8,000 years ago, the oldest writing at 8600 years ago.Squash agriculture began 10 kyr ago, cats were domesticated 9500 years ago. pigs were domesticated 9 kyr ago, cotton was first farmed 9,000 years ago. The oldest harvesting device, a flint sickle was from 13,000 years ago (thought you said there was no agriculture before 5000 years ago?)

As to intelligence, the inventions made by neanderthals prior to 30,000 years ago, which we still use include: the first star chart (35 kyr); the 7 note diatonic musical scale, huts, surgical amputaton of the arm, use of coal and thus coal mining, and anoxic chemistry. These guys were smart and you are factually wrong.

Just as happened on the 1st Earth, agriculture and city building were the first signs of Human Intelligence. NO Evolution was necessary except descent with modification, or MicroEvolution.

Mankind changed from prehistoric to Human just AFTER Noah arrived on this Planet. Civilization was born just South of the Mountains of Ararat, exactly as God told us.

Are you ready to admit your TE's doctrinal errors?

If you would tell me where the Bible says, "civilization was born just south of Ararat." You must be using books in your bible I don't have in mine. Please cite chapter and verse.

 

[Vance]

No signs of human intelligence before agriculture?!

That's it, I'm through with this one.

 

[2Pillars]

Dear Readers,

Mesopotamia «MEHS uh puh TAY mee uh», was an ancient region in which the world's earliest civilization developed. Mesopotamia included the area that is now eastern Syria, southeastern Turkey, and most of Iraq. It extended from the Taurus Mountains in the north to the Persian Gulf in the south, and from the Zagros Mountains in the east to the Syrian Desert in the west. But the heart of the region was the land between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. The name Mesopotamia comes from a Greek word meaning between rivers.


Northern Mesopotamia was a plateau that had a mild climate. Parts of it received enough rain for crops to grow. In southern Mesopotamia, a plain of fertile soil left by floodwaters of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers provided rich farmland. But the long, hot summers and little rain in this area made irrigation necessary for agriculture.

The oldest known communities in northern Mesopotamia were villages established in the Zagros foothills by about 7000 B.C. Traces of villages in far southern Mesopotamia date from the 5000's B.C. Sometime before 3500 B.C., new settlers arrived in this region. Scholars do not know where these people originally came from, but the area they settled became known as Sumer. About 3500 B.C., the Sumerians began to build the world's first cities and to develop its first civilization. About the same time, the Sumerians invented the world's first system of writing. This system, using word-pictures, developed into a system of wedge-shaped characters called cuneiform (see Cuneiform).


During the 2300's B.C., people originally from the west called Akkadians conquered Sumer. The invaders were Semites—that is, people who spoke a language related to Arabic and Hebrew. The Akkadians and other Semites formed empires that ruled Mesopotamia for much of the period between 2300 and 539 B.C. These Semitic groups included the Babylonians, Assyrians, and Amorites.


In 539 B.C., Mesopotamia became part of the Persian Empire. The Macedonian ruler Alexander the Great conquered the Persians in 331 B.C. Later, the Seleucids, Parthians, Romans, Sasanians, Arabs, and Mongols ruled Mesopotamia. In the A.D. 1500's, the Ottoman Empire began to establish control over the region. Mesopotamia remained part of the Ottoman Empire until the British occupied the area during World War I (1914-1918). In 1921, most of Mesopotamia became part of the newly created nation of Iraq.



______________

document.writeln(contrib);Contributor:

• John A. Brinkman, Ph.D., Charles H. Swift Distinguished Service Professor of Mesopotamic History, Oriental Institute, University of Chicago.





To cite this article in a footnote, World Book recommends the following format: document.writeln(authors)John A. Brinkman, " Mesopotamia " World Book Online Reference Centre,

http://www.worldbookonline.com/ar?/na/ar/co/ar357440.htm, January 7, 2004

 

[2Pillars]

Precisely what characteristics would you associate with humans that are not associated with these 'pre-historic beings'? As has been pointed out, they look like us, they make cities like us. How do you tell them apart from us? Are some of them living amongst us today?

The History of Human Civilization began in the Cradle of Civilization, in Mesopatamia. From there came math, writing, commerce, technology, etc. All of the things which we call Human Civilization, Today.

Dear grmorton,

Go to Mesopotamia [Article] - World Book Online Americas Edition or any other Encyclopedia, and you will find that the first Human Civilization, is found in Mesopatamia, EXACTLY as described in Scripture.

Failure to show an Earlier Human Civilization will be the test. Either show us another, according to History, or we must accept History, which shows that God knew exactly what He wrote.

When you accept the Historical evidence, you will go exactly opposite of the Religion of the Evolution of Human Intelligence. Science should quit fighting History, in it's attempt to establish it's False Religion.

We inherited our Human Intelligence from the descendants of Noah, who built the FIRST Human cities and Civilizations on this Planet.

God Bless

 

[Vance]

OK, I can't resist. Why does first civilization equal first human intelligence? It doesn't even mean the first cities or settlements.

The hunter/gatherer societies were every bit as intelligent as those after the neolithic agricultural revolution. There were a lot of reasons why different groups chose to switch to agriculture, but it definitely was NOT due to an increased intelligence. The H/G lifestyle was simply a better way of living. The people were healthier, lived longer, had a better diet, had much more leisure time, lived a more egalitarian and generally were better off. Definitely not a matter of intelligence.

You are equating the term "civilization" with intelligent human societies and cultures. This makes no sense.

 

[grmorton]

Dear grmorton,

Go to Mesopotamia [Article] - World Book Online Americas Edition or any other Encyclopedia, and you will find that the first Human Civilization, is found in Mesopatamia, EXACTLY as described in Scripture.

Failure to show an Earlier Human Civilization will be the test. Either show us another, according to History, or we must accept History, which shows that God knew exactly what He wrote.

When you accept the Historical evidence, you will go exactly opposite of the Religion of the Evolution of Human Intelligence. Science should quit fighting History, in it's attempt to establish it's False Religion.

We inherited our Human Intelligence from the descendants of Noah, who built the FIRST Human cities and Civilizations on this Planet.

God Bless

Before I go to any trouble, I want you to provide a clear and concise definition of what you mean by civilization so that I can see what isn't there.

 

[2Pillars]

Before I go to any trouble, I want you to provide a clear and concise definition of what you mean by civilization so that I can see what isn't there.

Dear grmorton,

Please find the generally accepted definition of "civilization" compliment by Merriam Webster Dictionary per your request.

Main Entry: civ·i·li·za·tion
Pronunciation: "si-v&-l&-'zA-sh&n
Function: noun
Date: 1772
1 a : a relatively high level of cultural and technological development; specifically : the stage of cultural development at which writing and the keeping of written records is attained

Failure to show an Earlier Human Civilization will be the test for all the TE's as well.

The History of Human Civilization began in the Cradle of Civilization, in Mesopatamia. From there came math, writing, commerce, technology, etc. All of the things which we call Human Civilization, Today.

And please grmorton you can also ask all of your TE's friends for an answer and come back to me -- or -- better yet, whenever you are all ready to admit your doctrinal (TE's) errors, yo hear?

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Earliest Rice June 11, 1997
by Spencer P.M. Harrington

Rice cultivation began in China ca. 11,500 years ago, some 3,500 years earlier than previously believed, according to Chinese and Japanese archaeologists who studied 125 samples of rice grains, husks, plant remains, and grain impressions in pottery excavated from more than 100 sites along the Yangtze River. The oldest specimens were from sites on the middle Yangtze in Hubei and Hunan provinces, while samples from both upstream and downstream were dated between 10,000 and 4,000 years ago. Syuichi Toyama, an environmental archaeologist at Japan's Kogakukan University, says the evidence suggests rice cultivation began in the middle Yangtze and spread from there.

The new dates also show that rice cultivation preceded millet farming in northern China, which began 7,500 to 7,200 years ago, and may even predate 10,000-year-old evidence of barley cultivation from Netiv Hagdud in Israel. Bruce Smith of the Smithsonian Institution advises caution on the Yangtze rice dates, however, since no morphological studies have been done to determine whether the grain was domesticated. Such rice, he says, has larger seeds than wild varieties and a stronger rachis, or spine, for holding the grains.

from: http://www.archaeology.org/online/news/rice.html