The Works of the Law

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Studyman

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That is a Torah commandment for which you have accused me of being in perpetual violation.

Leviticus 19:16-18 KJV
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Moreover Romans 7:14 has been quoted and-or referenced in my posts many times in many places, all over this board, and at least four times already in this thread. What I said about that was the truth, and indeed, if you actually believed that the Torah is spiritual you would not be believing that any part of it needed to be done away with or was only "added" until the seed, (according to your own private meaning of that Pauline passage in the manner in which you used it in one of your arguments).

Moreover I am not referencing or posting Torah to condemn people as you are doing to me: I post it because it is righteous and true, and profitable for doctrine, and I post it especially when the Master and his Apostles quote it so as to include background context provided in the scripture. Do you not realize that we are all condemned under the Torah so that every mouth may be shut up or stopped? How is it that you appropriate the right to yourself to wield the Torah as a rod of iron against fellow believers, brothers, and neighbors?

If you want to play Torah lawyer this it what it says about false accusers:

Exodus 20:16 KJV
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Deuteronomy 5:20 KJV
20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Deuteronomy 19:16-20 KJV
16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;
18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.
20 And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.

Notice one thing these passages above have in common: they speak of things such as talebearing, false witness, and hatred in the manner in which it is expressed against one's neighbors or brethren.

1 John 3:9-15 KJV
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.


I am done Daq. You can waste your time justifying yourself and justifying your falsehoods to someone else. You are not God. You can go around and tell people who believe the Law is Spiritual, that they don't believe the Law is Spiritual. But just because you declare it, doesn't make it so. Even if you have convinced yourself that it does.

It's not to late Daq. You can still change if you want to from your heart.

Is. 1: 16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

You won't be judged by my works, but by yours. Perhaps you might consider that for a time.
 
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ralliann

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None of this disproves the simple and logical fact of the matter as it is stated in the passage quoted in the OP:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh?

By the way it is worded, by default, attempting to be perfected in the flesh or by the flesh surely means that such a one is attempting to follow the natural-minded outward and physical interpretations of the Sanhedrin, Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes, which is clearly, (by the Testimony of the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts), the old way of the old man nature which cannot please Elohim.
Paul is speaking of the law of faith, vs law of works. The law of faith was from the beginning. Abel, Noah, Abraham all kept the law of faith. Moses law a law of works, hurt none who kept it by faith. The law of works was not the law that brought them out of Egypt. It was the Abrahamic promises, it was by the law of faith they were brought out. of Egypt The Galatians likewise received the Spirit by the law of faith, not the law of works. Moses law in and of itself was not of faith, it killed. It's sacrifices could not take away sin. But the man who did those works by the law of faith, which wrought those works. Just as James declares, his faith wrought forth his works.
That seems to be not just the context here, but throughout the new covenant scripture, the law of faith.........At a minimum 430 years before the law of works, and before Abraham as well. Read Hebrews 11, the faith hall of fame begins with Able. Our works of faith have to do With Christ Jesus the new covenant in his blood. By the one law, the law of faith is the scripture fulfilled concerning all families of the earth unto Abraham our father.
 
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daq

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Paul is speaking of the law of faith, vs law of works. The law of faith was from the beginning. Abel, Noah, Abraham all kept the law of faith. Moses law a law of works, hurt none who kept it by faith. The law of works was not the law that brought them out of Egypt. It was the Abrahamic promises, it was by the law of faith they were brought out. of Egypt The Galatians likewise received the Spirit by the law of faith, not the law of works. Moses law in and of itself was not of faith, it killed. It's sacrifices could not take away sin. But the man who did those works by the law of faith, which wrought those works. Just as James declares, his faith wrought forth his works.
That seems to be not just the context here, but throughout the new covenant scripture, the law of faith.........At a minimum 430 years before the law of works, and before Abraham as well. Read Hebrews 11, the faith hall of fame begins with Able. Our works of faith have to do With Christ Jesus the new covenant in his blood. By the law of faith is the scripture fulfilled concerning all families of the earth unto Abraham our father.

In regards to your following statement:

The Galatians likewise received the Spirit by the law of faith, not the law of works.

The passage actually tells us that the Galatians had a Gospel account in their possession, no doubt given to them by Paul, which is most likely the Gospel we now know as Luke, being quoted from and expounded in 1Cor 11:23-26, 1Cor 14:37-38, and on through 1Cor 15:1-6. This is why Paul says to the Galatians:

Galatians 3:1
1 ω ανοητοι γαλαται τις υμας εβασκανεν οις κατ οφθαλμους ιησους χριστος προεγραφη εσταυρωμενος

προεγραφη = written before(hand)

Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries
G4270 προγράφω prographo (pro-gra'-fō) v.
1. to write previously.
2. (figuratively) to announce, prescribe.
[from G4253 and G1125]
KJV: before ordain, evidently set forth, write (afore, aforetime)
Root(s): G4253, G1125

Paul is reminding them of a literal Gospel account which they had received from him.

Galatians 3:1 LSV (Literal Standard Version)
1 O thoughtless Galatians, who bewitched you, not to obey the truth—before whose eyes [it] was previously written [about] Jesus Christ having been crucified?

They had received and had read the writing, a Gospel account full of the Testimony of the Master, ("Paul's Gospel", a.k.a. "Luke"), and thus he says in the above statement, "before whose eyes it was previously written". And if testimony is spirit, and it is, (whether for the good or whether for the evil), then this is where they had received the Spirit because the Testimony of the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts, (Jhn 6:63), is the new Spirit of the new-renewed covenant, (Eze 11:19-20, Eze 36:26-27).
 
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ralliann

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In regards to your following statement:



The passage actually tells us that the Galatians had a Gospel account in their possession, no doubt given to them by Paul, which is most likely the Gospel we now know as Luke, being quoted from and expounded in 1Cor 11:23-26, 1Cor 14:37-38, and on through 1Cor 15:1-6. This is why Paul says to the Galatians:

Galatians 3:1
1 ω ανοητοι γαλαται τις υμας εβασκανεν οις κατ οφθαλμους ιησους χριστος προεγραφη εσταυρωμενος

προεγραφη = written before(hand)

Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries
G4270 προγράφω prographo (pro-gra'-fō) v.
1. to write previously.
2. (figuratively) to announce, prescribe.
[from G4253 and G1125]
KJV: before ordain, evidently set forth, write (afore, aforetime)
Root(s): G4253, G1125

Paul is reminding them of a literal Gospel account which they had received from him.

Galatians 3:1 LSV (Literal Standard Version)
1 O thoughtless Galatians, who bewitched you, not to obey the truth—before whose eyes [it] was previously written [about] Jesus Christ having been crucified?

They had received and had read the writing, a Gospel account full of the Testimony of the Master, ("Paul's Gospel", a.k.a. "Luke"), and thus he says in the above statement, "before whose eyes it was previously written". And if testimony is spirit, and it is, (whether for the good or whether for the evil), then this is where they had received the Spirit because the Testimony of the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts, (Jhn 6:63), is the new Spirit of the new-renewed covenant, (Eze 11:19-20, Eze 36:26-27).
He is talking about the preaching of the Gospel, by the Apostolic eye witnesess, not the Judaizers.

Ga 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
 
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tdidymas

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That's fine by me but I do not agree that your issue is with me. :)
No, I don't have any issue with you. I was simply trying to clarify how I understand the phrase "works of the law," that seemed to conflict with what you said it meant.
 
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tdidymas

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I was posting God's definition of faith, not mine. It seems prudent to me, given all the warnings about the "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, but are deceivers, that we place our trust in the God inspired Holy Scriptures "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

You are free to trust another if you choose.



I'm sure those Christians in Matt. 7:22, were convinced of the same thing.



Rom. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom "ye yield yourselves" servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom. 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

You are free to live by popular religious talking points. But clearly, according to the Christ "of the bible" there is more to our relationship with God and honoring Him with our lips.



Yes, it is a free gift, to those who believe Him, but not to those who don't.

Eph. 28 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of (Man's) works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which "God" hath before ordained that we "should walk in them".

Heb. 11: 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God "must believe" that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that "diligently seek him".

Rom. 2: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Calling Him Lord, Lord and going to some random manmade shrine of worship, is what "MANY" who come in His Name promote for salvation. But according to the Christ "of the bible" there is more to salvation than lip service and to be seen of men.



True, once I kill someone, I can spend the rest of my life not killing, but my obedience does not take away my disobedience. Someone of a Higher Power must pardon my sin. And it's absurd to promote the foolishness that the Pharisees (Religious leaders) were trying to earn salvation by obeying God. This insidious lie, promoted by this world's religions who call Jesus Lord, Lord, is the most wicked of deceptions and has infected the minds of "many".

Obedience to God's Law, according to God's Word, brings Righteousness. Although many religious sects and businesses of this world preach that it doesn't, the Jesus, of the Bible, saw this deception coming, and prepared me for it.

1 John 3: 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that "doeth" righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

It is you who don't understand God's definition of Faith, nor do you understand His Gospel. And this because of this world's religious influence. But the deception that has snared you is nothing new.

Heb. 4: 2 "For unto us was the gospel preached", "as well as unto them" (Israel) but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith (Doing) in them that "heard it".

Duet. 32: 20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

There isn't much else I can saw on the topic. I can show you what is written, but I can't make you believe it.
You seem to be so prejudiced against me on the subject that you're not even reading what I wrote. Therefore I agree that there is not much else that can be discussed on the topic between us.
 
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Studyman

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You seem to be so prejudiced against me on the subject that you're not even reading what I wrote.

I asked you a dozen questions regarding what the Scriptures actually say about over 40 Scriptures Posted over the course of our conversation. You maybe addressed one or two of them. I asked nicely a question about the "Works of the Law, for the remission of sins in Moses Time, and you completely ignored my request, and refused to even post God's OWN Words, choosing instead to promote your own religious philosophy. I asked you a dozen questions, you may have addressed one or two. So honestly, I could easily be justified in saying you are prejudiced against me on the subject, not even reading my posts.

Therefore I agree that there is not much else that can be discussed on the topic between us.

I can't see where we were having a discussion. I was posting Scriptures for your review and discussion, and you were ignoring the Scriptures posted and refused to even address most of them, choosing instead to spend your time promoting and justifying your specific religion, which differs from another one down the road, which differs from another one up the street.

We are on two different paths here. You have adopted one of this world's "many" religious sects, who come in Christ's Name, out of the "many" which exist in this world God placed us in, and are snared into promoting its talking points, Philosophies, high days, traditions and doctrines.

I have been freed from the traditions, doctrines and philosophies of the "many" religious sects and businesses of this world God placed me in and am now free to "Seek the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness" trusting, as Paul instructed, not one of this world's religious sects or businesses competing for butts to fill the seats of their manmade shrines of worship, but the Holy scriptures Inspired by God for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


So you are trying to convert me to your specific religion where "Faith plus works" is dead, while I am trying to convince you to trust the Holy scriptures, where Faith without works is dead. An age-old struggle as old as Cain and Abel,

"By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Thanks for the opportunity to share the freedom I have in Christ.
 
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HIM

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There is no way around what Paul says about his meaning of the idiom in the Galatians 3 passage in the OP. You are either outright denying what he says or you are making up your own secondary meaning for the idiom "the works of the law" so that you may circumvent what he says about it in Galatians 3:2-3. You are ignoring the Logos and logic within that text.

The OP is very short, simple, and straightforward:

-------------------------------------------------------
Nothing is being misunderstood, denied, made up or circumvented. The post you responded to was from Romans not Galatians. Let's deal with these passages first then we will revisit Galatians. In Romans The phrase is explained within the passage it is in. Paul through the Spirit writes It is the Law that gives us the knowledge of sin not an interpretation of it by the Elders. (Rom 3:20) An interpretation by the Pharisees never made anyone righteous or gave anyone any justification. The CONTEXT is the Law the Jews rested in, proving out the things that are more excellent being instructed out of the Law. (Rom 2:17) THE CONTEXT is the law they broke. In their stealing adulterous lives, they dishonored God making their circumcision uncircumcision in that they did not keep the Whole law (Rom 2:23-25). They weren't any better than the Gentiles they were trying to instruct (Rom 3:9). Therefore we charge both Jews and Greeks with being all under sin. There are none righteous, not even one, there is none who is understanding, there is none who is seeking after God. All went out of the way, All have broken the Law, together they became unprofitable, there is none doing good, there is not even one. (Rom 3:10-19)

Because of this. Because of What?

Because all the world is guilty before God we know that as many things as the Law says, to those in the Law it speaks, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may come under judgment to God.

For this reason. For what reason?

Because all are guilty, for this reason by works of law no flesh is declared righteous before Him, for through the law they broke is a knowledge of sin. THAT is the CONTEXT of the PASSAGES. Therefore their mouths are stopped because they know they are guilty. Their circumcision was made uncircumcision. A little leaven has leavened the whole. In breaking one they have broke the all.
The logic in Gal 3:2-3 is irrefutable: one either believes it or does not, and if one does not understand the logic it is most likely either because of a reading comprehension deficiency or a blindness for upholding his or her own paradigm over the truth. I don't care which one it is, and am not making insinuations either way, but the fact is that your understanding of the idiom is incorrect: for Paul is certainly not teaching two entirely different meanings of the idiom for different congregations depending on which congregation it is to whom he writes.
Since the logic in Gal 3:2-11 is irrefutable: Let's delve into it again shall we. For the sake of not getting to deep and one getting lost. We will keep it simple in respect to what the Spirit sayeth in Galatians as to what is meant by the phrase "works of the Law".
It says As many who are under the works of the Law are under the curse. Because it is written curse is everyone who continues not in ALL things contained in the Book of the Law. If one is of the works of the Law they are cursed because they continued not in everything contained in the Book of the Law as Paul confirms in Romans, in that He says, all are guilty, for even they whom are in the Law receiving the oracles of God had broke the Law and dishonored God. Their circumcision was made uncircumcision and their mouths had been stopped falling short of His GLORY having sinned. Ror this reason by works of law will no flesh be declared righteous before Him, for through law is a knowledge of sin.
For this reason? For what reason?

Because all are guilty, for this reason by works of law no flesh is declared righteous before Him, for through the law they broke is a knowledge of sin. THAT is the CONTEXT of the PASSAGES. Therefore their mouths are stopped because they know they are guilty. Their circumcision was made uncircumcision. A little leaven has leavened the whole. In breaking one they have broke the all.

So unless we are going to say the Book of the Law is the writings of the Pharisees, Sanhedrin, and Scribes then your point is extremely mute. Because the Law justifies no one unless it is through the Faith of Christ as verse Gal 2:16 states. For we are dead but we live. Yet not us but Christ lives in us. And the life we live, we live through the faith of Christ who gave Himself for us. For as many that have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ that the Body of sin be destroy. For we have been set free. And free we are indeed that the righteousness of the law through faith may be fulfilled in that we through the Faith establish it.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
 
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daq

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He is talking about the preaching of the Gospel, by the Apostolic eye witnesess, not the Judaizers.

Ga 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

The passages I referenced prove what I said. Paul says, "For I received of the Master that which I also delivered unto you", meaning that he delivered to them what he himself had received, and then he quotes directly word for word verbatim from the Gospel we now know as Luke.

1 Corinthians 11:23-25 ASV
23 For I received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was betrayed took bread; [Luke 22:19a]
24 and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, This is my body, which is for you: this do in remembrance of me. [Luke 22:19]
25 In like manner also the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: [Luke 22:a-b] this do, as often as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

Luke 22:19-20 ASV
19 And he took bread, [1Cor 11:23b] and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and gave to them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [1Cor 11:24]
20 And the cup in like manner after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood, [1Cor 1:25a-b] even that which is poured out for you.

This passage from Luke 22:19-20 was given to Paul, according to his own testimony, and he says he also delivered it unto the Corinthians: that is surely speaking of a writing, and the writing is the Gospel we now know as Luke, obviously, from the quote of Luke 22:19-20 found in this epistle to the Corinthians. Paul then says the same again, later in the epistle, which I also referenced in my previous reply.

1 Corinthians 14:36 ASV
36 What? was it from you that the word of God went forth? or came it unto you alone?

The Word of Elohim had come to them: the Gospel we now know as Luke.

1 Corinthians 14:37-38
37 If any man thinketh himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him take knowledge of the things which I write unto you, that they are the commandment(s) of the Lord.
38 But if any man is ignorant, let him be ignorant.

The things Paul writes to them concern the commandments of the Master, and he is reminding them that he speaks of that which he had received, which he had also delivered unto them: the Gospel we now know as Luke. And the next chapter is still the same passage and thus the same context, and he reminds them again therein that he had delivered unto them what he himself had also received: the Gospel now known as Luke.

1 Corinthians 15:1-8 ASV
1 Now I make known unto you brethren, the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye received, wherein also ye stand,
2 by which also ye are saved, if ye hold fast the word which I preached unto you, except ye believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which also I received: that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; [Gospel of Luke]
4 and that he was buried; and that he hath been raised on the third day according to the scriptures; [Gospel of Luke]
5 and that he appeared to Cephas; [Luke 24:34] then to the twelve; [Luke 24:36]
6 then he appeared to above five hundred brethren at once, [Gospel of Peter] of whom the greater part remain until now, but some are fallen asleep;
7 then he appeared to James; then to all the apostles;
8 and last of all, as to the child untimely born, he appeared to me also.

Therefore it is imperative that one understands where Paul, (Shaul at this point), did indeed receive what he had also delivered to his congregations, obviously including also the Galatians according to what he writes to them in Gal 3:1, (as shown in my previous reply). Where did Paul receive his Gospel? He received it immediately upon his initial conversion, right after the appearance of the Master to him near Damascus, and it was given to him by Hananyah, (Ananias), when Hananyah was commanded by the Master to seek out Paul, (Shaul), and go lay the Power upon him so that Paul might receive sight.

All one needs to be able to understand this is to understand that the word hand in Hebrew-Biblical thought represents power. Hananyah did not necessarily lay his own physical hands on Paul, and the Greek text does not say that, it rather says he laid the hands, not his hands, upon Paul, (Acts 9:12, Acts 9:17). So Hananyah laid the Power upon Paul, and the Power is the Word, and therefore surely the Testimony of the Master in the Gospel accounts in this case: for Paul already knew the rest of the scripture found in the Hebrew scriptures, but was blind to what they truly teach and preach, and it is the Testimony of the Master which expounds all things of the Torah, Prophets, and Writings in the Hebrew scriptures.

Hananyah gave Paul a record of what has now come to be known as the Gospel of Luke. And when Hananyah did so, what then was it which he admonished Paul to do? Hananyah admonished Paul to arise and be immersed, (Acts 22:16). Immerse in what? Immersion is not literal water immersion: Biblical immersion is immersion into the Word of Elohim. Thus Paul went into Arabia, (for six months, but that is another line of discussion), and he immersed in the Gospel which Hananyah had laid upon him: the Power of Elohim, the Word of Elohim, and in this case it was the Gospel we now know as Luke by way of the quote we have from that Gospel account in 1Cor 11:23-25.

Therefore the Galatians, according to Gal 3:1, had indeed begun in the Spirit, which is the Testimony of the Master, which is Spirit, (Jhn 6:63), for Paul had delivered unto the Galatians that which he himself had also received, just as he says he did with the Corinthians. The Testimony of the Master in the Gospel accounts is the new Spirit of the new-renewed covenant as foretold in Ezekiel the Prophet which passage references were already posted in my previous reply, and the outward, carnal minded, physical teachings and interpretations of the Sanhedrin dogmas and decrees, and of the Chief Priests, Sadducees, Pharisees, and Scribes, were in direct opposition to the Testimony of the Master which is Spirit and therefore spiritual.

Revolting from the Testimony of the Master, (in the Gospel of Luke in this case), and returning to the teachings and doctrines of the Pharisees, is surely having fallen from grace: but that does not somehow overthrow or invalidate the Torah, for walking according to the spiritual and supernal understanding provided in the Testimony of the Master upholds the Torah and establishes the Torah because the new Way of the Master is the Way in which the Torah was originally meant to begin with. Mosheh was not a cave man, or a neanderthal minded natural-carnal man: the Most High spoke unto Mosheh face to face, as a man speaks with his friend, (Exo 33:11).
 
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ralliann

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None of this disproves the simple and logical fact of the matter as it is stated in the passage quoted in the OP:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh?

Acts 11:2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,
3 Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.



17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
 
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daq

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Acts 11:2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,
3 Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.



17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

This is the whole quote:

----------------------------------------------

None of this disproves the simple and logical fact of the matter as it is stated in the passage quoted in the OP:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh?

By the way it is worded, by default, attempting to be perfected in the flesh or by the flesh surely means that such a one is attempting to follow the natural-minded outward and physical interpretations of the Sanhedrin, Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes, which is clearly, (by the Testimony of the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts), the old way of the old man nature which cannot please Elohim.

----------------------------------------------

And likewise it applies to your post herein above as well: for the Torah is the Word of the Father, and setting aside (either part or all of) His Word is surely not what is pleasing to the Father.

All that is necessary is to be willing to forfeit doctrinal biases and simply believe what the passage in the OP boldly states, (Gal 3:1-3), and act accordingly upon that belief by incorporating Paul's teaching into one's understanding, doctrine, and walk.
 
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ralliann

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This is the whole quote:

----------------------------------------------

None of this disproves the simple and logical fact of the matter as it is stated in the passage quoted in the OP:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh?

By the way it is worded, by default, attempting to be perfected in the flesh or by the flesh surely means that such a one is attempting to follow the natural-minded outward and physical interpretations of the Sanhedrin, Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes, which is clearly, (by the Testimony of the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts), the old way of the old man nature which cannot please Elohim.
The first difference between us is right here.....
1. The traditions of the Pharisees Sadducees, Essenes or any other sects were not Torah, they were disputable matters of those sects "traditions". Hence they were sects or Parties.
So Torah is not traditions.
Offices of Authority BY TORAH.....are distinct from sects....
Torah was by the seat of Moses, which was AGREEMENT between the highpriest, and the judges. There were no Sadducees and Pharisees, just offices men were excercising under Torah.
The Oral torah of Rabbinic Judaism only became called oral law, after 70 Ad when the temple was destroyed.
Read Deuteronomy 17.

The specific verse for oral Torah

De 17:10 And thou shalt do according to the sentence <06310> <01697>, which they of that place which the LORD shall choose shall shew thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee:
The word of their mouth
The priest spoike the word to the judge by mouth and the judge, judged according to LAW by mouth here.
Disagreement concerning various teachings was not law.....They were matters not settled as law therefore Disputable matters.

Priesthood authority in courts
De 21:5 And the priests the sons of Levi shall come near; for them the LORD thy God hath chosen to minister unto him, and to bless in the name of the LORD; and by their word shall every controversy and every stroke be tried:

De 33:8 And of Levi he said, Let thy Thummim and thy Urim be with thy holy one, whom thou didst prove at Massah, and with whom thou didst strive at the waters of Meribah;
9 Who said unto his father and to his mother, I have not seen him; neither did he acknowledge his brethren, nor knew his own children: for they have observed thy word, and kept thy covenant.
10 They shall teach Jacob thy judgments, and Israel thy law: they shall put incense before thee, and whole burnt sacrifice upon thine altar.

Mal 2:7 For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

----------------------------------------------

And likewise it applies to your post herein above as well: for the Torah is the Word of the Father, and setting aside (either part or all of) His Word is surely not what is pleasing to the Father.

All that is necessary is to be willing to forfeit doctrinal biases and simply believe what the passage in the OP boldly states, (Gal 3:1-3), and act accordingly upon that belief by incorporating Paul's teaching into one's understanding, doctrine, and walk.
Are you willing to do that?
 
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The first difference between us is right here.....
1. The traditions of the Pharisees Sadducees, Essenes or any other sects were not Torah, they were disputable matters of those sects "traditions". Hence they were sects or Parties.
So Torah is not traditions.
Offices of Authority BY TORAH.....are distinct from sects....

No disagreement there.

Torah was by the seat of Moses, which was AGREEMENT between the highpriest, and the judges.

No, the judges were called "the Elohim" and they were to consult the Torah which is called Elohim in the same passage.

Exodus 22:8-9
8 If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the Elohim-Judges, to see whether he has put his hand unto his neighbor's goods.
9 For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for donkey, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challenges to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the Elohim-Judges; and whom Elohim shall condemn, that one shall pay double unto his neighbor.

The Torah itself is called Elohim in the above passage because the Elohim-Judges were to consult the Torah, and whomever Elohim (the Torah) condemned, that one was to be liable according to the correct understanding (logos-reasoning) from the Torah (Elohim, the Logos within the Torah).

Same passage:

Exodus 22:28
28 You shall not revile the Elohim (Judges), nor curse the Nasiy-Prince (Chief Kohen) of your people.

There were no Sadducees and Pharisees, just offices men were excercising under Torah.

Yes, agreed, and under the Torah, agreed.

The Oral torah of Rabbinic Judaism only became called oral law, after 70 Ad when the temple was destroyed.
Read Deuteronomy 17.

Whether that is true or not it seems to be irrelevant to me.

The specific verse for oral Torah

De 17:10 And thou shalt do according to the sentence <06310> <01697>, which they of that place which the LORD shall choose shall shew thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee:
The word of their mouth
The priest spoike the word to the judge by mouth and the judge, judged according to LAW by mouth here.

Okay.

Disagreement concerning various teachings was not law.....They were matters not settled as law therefore Disputable matters.

Why do you suppose the Master had to come and overturn the corrupted teachings, doctrines, edicts, dogmas, and decrees of the Sanhedrin, Elders, Chief Priests, Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes? That is precisely what I have been saying, and what Paul is likewise teaching even in the passage straight from the OP of this thread: it is not about overturning or setting aside any part of the Torah, but about teaching the correct understandings of the Torah so that we may walk in the Torah-Word of the Father in the spiritual and pleasing Way which the Meshiah gave his life, body, and blood to deliver the truth unto the world, and to deliever us from the handwritten dogmas and decrees of the rulers of the people whose faulty, outward, natural and physical minded judgments and edicts were binding upon the whole nation, and yet were against us all.

Priesthood authority in courts
De 21:5 And the priests the sons of Levi shall come near; for them the LORD thy God hath chosen to minister unto him, and to bless in the name of the LORD; and by their word shall every controversy and every stroke be tried:

De 33:8 And of Levi he said, Let thy Thummim and thy Urim be with thy holy one, whom thou didst prove at Massah, and with whom thou didst strive at the waters of Meribah;
9 Who said unto his father and to his mother, I have not seen him; neither did he acknowledge his brethren, nor knew his own children: for they have observed thy word, and kept thy covenant.
10 They shall teach Jacob thy judgments, and Israel thy law: they shall put incense before thee, and whole burnt sacrifice upon thine altar.

Mal 2:7 For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

Of course I do not disagree with any of the scripture you have quoted: but I do not see the relevance in the above either.

Are you willing to do that?

I already did it: for I left myself no choice once I understood what Paul means in that passage. It is so simple a child can understand it but children do not often have strong paradigm biases because their beliefs have not yet become fully developed. The Galatians had begun in the Spirit, that is, by the hearing, (and reading), of the Testimony of the Meshiah which interprets and expounds all things Torah, Prophets, and Writings for us: but then some of the Galatians reverted back toward the physical and natural understanding of the Torah, which was no doubt being taught to them by Pharisees, and some apparently decided they needed to get physically circumcised, (Gal 5:1-4), and because of this Paul says they were attempting to become perfected according to the flesh, which surely means the natural, physical, outward understanding and teachings of the natural minded Pharisees of their day.

Here it is from the OP once again, nothing has changed, it is perfectly clear for anyone with ears to hear:

----------------------------------------------------

The meaning of this phrase, "the works of the Law", is manifestly evident in Galatians 3:1-3.

Galatians 3:1-3 KJV
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Galatians 3:1-3 ASV
1 O foolish Galatians, who did bewitch you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was openly set forth crucified?
2 This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh?

The "works of the Law" are therefore based entirely on an incorrect physical and outward understanding of the Torah according to the flesh. The Torah is spiritual, as Paul also states in Romans 7:14a, and therefore the "works of the Law" are not the Torah itself, but rather, an incorrect outward and physical minded reading, understanding, and interpretation of the Torah.

----------------------------------------------------

It is perfectly clear and obvious that they had begun in the Spirit, but then had reverted back to the natural and physical understandings taught by the Pharisees, and that's especially true beginning with physical circumcision. Thus Paul says that they had begun in the Spirit, (teachings of the Meshiah), but were attempting to become perfected in the flesh, (teachings of the Pharisees). Therefore it is about the natural minded teachings of the Pharisees being set aside, not the Torah itself.

This isn't rocket science: those who ignore it or refuse to see it only do so in order to protect a bias. However this is the first precept in a new portion of the discourse, (Gal 3:1-3), and the one who denies the first precept will of course not be able to fully understand what follows, for Paul, like all scripture, teaches precept upon precept and line upon line. If we ignore the first precept of a teaching, we end up making up our own meanings for what follows, and we end up in the ditch on the side of the road.

This is why I have not paid much attention to all of the posting about other things that follow in the passage, for the thread is about what is quoted in the OP, Gal 3:1-3, and if anyone ignores that precept, and thinks they can start from what follows in the same passage in order to prove the initial precept to be incorrect, they are already gone astray in their understanding and reasoning for ignoring the scripture while making up their own version of Paul's words. If one cannot get past Gal 3:1-3 without admitting what it says, and especially what that opening paragraph actually means, then nothing else said about what follows in the same passage is going to alter the obvious meaning of what is stated in Gal 3:1-3. Walls of scripture posts are not going to change what it says and means: learn one thing at a time, and take the first precept in a discourse and build upon that precept as the authors of the scripture teach it, precept upon precept, line upon line.
 
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ralliann

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No disagreement there.



No, the judges were called "the Elohim" and they were to consult the Torah which is called Elohim in the same passage.

Exodus 22:8-9
8 If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the Elohim-Judges, to see whether he has put his hand unto his neighbor's goods.
9 For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for donkey, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challenges to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the Elohim-Judges; and whom Elohim shall condemn, that one shall pay double unto his neighbor.

The Torah itself is called Elohim in the above passage because the Elohim-Judges were to consult the Torah, and whomever Elohim (the Torah) condemned, that one was to be liable according to the correct understanding (logos-reasoning) from the Torah (Elohim, the Logos within the Torah).

Same passage:

Exodus 22:28
28 You shall not revile the Elohim (Judges), nor curse the Nasiy-Prince (Chief Kohen) of your people.
Read why the above is so..... They are TO be ADJUDICATORS OF LAW TAUGHT BY THE PRIESTS

The Judges got law from the priesthood.

De 33:8 And of Levi he said, Let thy Thummim and thy Urim be with thy holy one, whom thou didst prove at Massah, and with whom thou didst strive at the waters of Meribah;
9 Who said unto his father and to his mother, I have not seen him; neither did he acknowledge his brethren, nor knew his own children: for they have observed thy word, and kept thy covenant.
10 They shall teach Jacob thy judgments, and Israel thy law: they shall put incense before thee, and whole burnt sacrifice upon thine altar.

Mal 2:7 For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.
Yes, agreed, and under the Torah, agreed.



Whether that is true or not it seems to be irrelevant to me.
You are saying the traditions of the Pharisees is called law, it was not......It was TRADITION.
Where did the ELOHIM get their law? Read the law.

Again, I have both bolded and underlined what the Judges were judging buy......that which came from the priesthood.......

De 33:8 And of Levi he said, Let thy Thummim and thy Urim be with thy holy one, whom thou didst prove at Massah, and with whom thou didst strive at the waters of Meribah;
9 Who said unto his father and to his mother, I have not seen him; neither did he acknowledge his brethren, nor knew his own children: for they have observed thy word, and kept thy covenant.
10 They shall teach Jacob thy judgments, and Israel thy law: they shall put incense before thee, and whole burnt sacrifice upon thine altar.

It's telling you the same thing here. They received the law under the priesthood


Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Okay.



Why do you suppose the Master had to come and overturn the corrupted teachings, doctrines, edicts, dogmas, and decrees of the Sanhedrin, Elders, Chief Priests, Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes?
John the Baptist prepared the way before him. John a son of Aaron.. A messenger (angel) of the Lord
Mal 2:7 For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.
A prophet
Luke 7:27 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.



That is precisely what I have been saying, and what Paul is likewise teaching even in the passage straight from the OP of this thread: it is not about overturning or setting aside any part of the Torah, but about teaching the correct understandings of the Torah so that we may walk in the Torah-Word of the Father in the spiritual and pleasing Way which the Meshiah gave his life, body, and blood to deliver the truth unto the world, and to deliever us from the handwritten dogmas and decrees of the rulers of the people whose faulty, outward, natural and physical minded judgments and edicts were binding upon the whole nation, and yet were against us all.
You are calling Torah tradition! It isn't. And you are treating Torah like tradition, attempting to correct it. as teachings of men....
That is the problem!
Yes, the priesthood was corrupt
John the Baptist, a priest, a messenger, a prophet . His disciples were not only the first Apostles, they also continued to minister John's baptism, being followers of the way. Making even more disciples than John.
John was so followed by the people that the Pharisees feared to speak negatively of him, because of the people

Mt 21:25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.

Ac 18:25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

John taught the people whom the Lord was for them to escape the coming wrath of God

Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner’s fire, and like fullers’ soap:
Mal 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
 
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Read why the above is so..... They are TO be ADJUDICATORS OF LAW TAUGHT BY THE PRIESTS

Just because you have mixed up so many things does not make what I have presented wrong.

The Judges got law from the priesthood.

The following contains the first mention of the Judges as "the Elohim".
Please pay attention to the context.

Exodus 20:18 - 21:6
18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.
19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.
21 And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.
22 And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.
23 Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold.
24 An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.
25 And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.
26 Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.
1 Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them.
2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
3 If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.
4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:
6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; [the Elohim] he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

The Judges, being called "the Elohim", are those unto whom the Logos-Word of Elohim has come: and it is not me who says so, it is the Master himself in John 10:34-35, where he quotes from Psalm 82:6, which refers back to these places in Exodus 21 and 22 where the Judges are called "the Elohim". It appears to me that you have confounded the matter: those unto whom the Logos-Word of Elohim has come are called Elohim, (and the scripture cannot be broken, John 10:34-35).

De 33:8 And of Levi he said, Let thy Thummim and thy Urim be with thy holy one, whom thou didst prove at Massah, and with whom thou didst strive at the waters of Meribah;
9 Who said unto his father and to his mother, I have not seen him; neither did he acknowledge his brethren, nor knew his own children: for they have observed thy word, and kept thy covenant.
10 They shall teach Jacob thy judgments, and Israel thy law: they shall put incense before thee, and whole burnt sacrifice upon thine altar.

Mal 2:7 For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

And???

You are saying the traditions of the Pharisees is called law, it was not......It was TRADITION.

No, I am not.

Where did the ELOHIM get their law? Read the law.

They received it from Mosheh who received it from the Most High as shown in the Exodus passage quoted above.

Again, I have both bolded and underlined what the Judges were judging buy......that which came from the priesthood.......

Again, they were to consult the Torah which is called Elohim, (without the article), in the passage already quoted from Exodus 22. That is why those unto whom the Logos-Word of Elohim has come are called Elohim: for the Torah is the Word of Elohim and contains the Logos of Elohim.

De 33:8 And of Levi he said, Let thy Thummim and thy Urim be with thy holy one, whom thou didst prove at Massah, and with whom thou didst strive at the waters of Meribah;
9 Who said unto his father and to his mother, I have not seen him; neither did he acknowledge his brethren, nor knew his own children: for they have observed thy word, and kept thy covenant.
10 They shall teach Jacob thy judgments, and Israel thy law: they shall put incense before thee, and whole burnt sacrifice upon thine altar.

Obviously I have no disagreement with this passage and what it says.

It's telling you the same thing here. They received the law under the priesthood

Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

You've confounded the teaching: where does this say that it is speaking of the Judges who are called Elohim?
It says the people, not Judges, and you even highlighted that very portion.

John the Baptist prepared the way before him. John a son of Aaron.. A messenger (angel) of the Lord
Mal 2:7 For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.
A prophet
Luke 7:27 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Yohanne the Immerser in this passage, (and also in Mat 11:10 and Mrk 1:2), is stated to be the Messenger of Exo 23:20-23, for the text is word for word verbatim from the OG LXX version of Exo 23:20a, showing that the Torah was not even fully operational and effective until the Meshiah had come to righteously and fully expound it for us all: for all the Prophets and the Torah prophesied until Yohanne, (Mat 11:13).

You are calling Torah tradition! It isn't. And you are treating Torah like tradition, attempting to correct it. as teachings of men....

False accusation.

Yes, the priesthood was corrupt
John the Baptist, a priest, a messenger, a prophet . His disciples were not only the first Apostles, they also continued to minister John's baptism, being followers of the way. Making even more disciples than John.
John was so followed by the people that the Pharisees feared to speak negatively of him, because of the people

Mt 21:25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.

Ac 18:25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

John taught the people whom the Lord was for them to escape the coming wrath of God

And??? Of course I have no disagreement with any of those passages:
It's your application of them is that seems to be a problem.

Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner’s fire, and like fullers’ soap:
Mal 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

That isn't about Yohanne the Immerser if that is what you are saying.
Please pay attention to context and follow the pronouns:

Malachi 3:1-3 KJV
1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: [Yohanne the Immerser] and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, [the Meshiah] saith the LORD of hosts.
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? [the Meshiah] and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

There are two Messengers in the above Malachi passage: follow the pronouns.

Yohanne the Immerser is "My Messenger".
The Meshiah is "the Messenger of the Covenant".

Malachi 3:2-3 speaks of "the Messenger of the Covenant", the Meshiah.
 
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Per the OP's request:

241634_a435e7c864cf3d1d54069d68f79ef38b_thumb.jpg


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