Here is the ASV of Romans 8. At least it gives the verses.
Romans 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace:
7 because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:
8 and they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwelleth in you, he that raised up Christ Jesus from the dead shall give life also to your mortal bodies through his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
The authors of the Bible did not write in chapters or verses and the addition of these has been a major influence on poor contextualisation of the message given. Specifically In the letters Paul wrote, he was developing arguments for the correction of wrong beliefs and teachings that were being promulgated in the Churches that the letters were addressed to.
The argument developed in Romans is the futility of following the Law as given to the nation of Israel under the Mosaic covenant, or indeed any natural moral Law that points out wrong doing. Rather we should walk in accordance with the Law of the Spirit which leads us into life and love.
Do you see the condition for no condemnation and righteousness?
...for those that are in Christ Jesus.
Verse 4 says 'who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit'. Was do you suppose 'walking' after the Spirit is?
Walking after the Spirit is exactly what it says. Jesus sent His Spirit to dwell within us:
but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you. (Romans 8)
What is 'walking' after the flesh?
Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires;
Is it just a matter of faith? It's how you live your life, not how you believe. It's your behavior, your actions, your works. It's as John says - those who practice righteousness are righteous, just as He is.
Yes, actions reflect what we truly trust, believe and follow, but it is the state of the heart in accordance with the Spirit that matters.
To preach following of some Law apart from the Spirit is tp promote exactly the error of the Pharisees:
Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
But you conveniently ignore what Jesus says - if you love me, keep My commandments. Love is reciprocal. If you love your wife, but she doesn't return that love, there is no conjunction.
If you endeavor to return His love, He told us how.
The apostle Peter was asked a similar question, three times and also broke down.
Jesus commandment is this: A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. (John 13)
and Paul wrote: Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. (Ephesians 5)
I have never encountered or heard of anybody (apart from Christ Jesus) that Loves another person completely in this way. Christ was completely selfless to the point of death, and He invites us to do the same thing daily so that we can experience the miracle of the resurrection in our own lives.
But He does not leave us as orphans, trying to do the impossible, rather He gives us His Spirit, He says: “If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be
c in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”....
“Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
“All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.....Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. (John 15)
It is true that a person following the Spirit will bear fruit according to the Spirit.
It is also true that many do good works according to the Law apart from the Spirit (If righteousness comes through following the good works of the law then there are many righteous who don't want a bar of God or Jesus, and who hate Him).
It is those who are following the Spirit that are acting as children of God that belong to Him.
Nothing is said about them willfully choosing to obey by faith in the promise that God had given them. They followed from their heart's desire.
Yes, the heart given to us by the Spirit and according to the Spirit.
It was by faith all the OT saints 'DID' things.
Yes, and the faith, the state of heart, came first which enabled them to continue doing the things even though they stumbled from the letter of the Law. It was faith in God that kept the whole shebang going even when things looked very bleak.
It would be better not to inject something in the word that isn't there. Nothing is said about looking forward to the promise given. Yes, Jesus was promised, but that had nothing to do with their righteousness. It said they were righteous, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
This is described in Hebrews: The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.(Hebrews 10)
So the faithful ones had this promise to look forward to, that the Law would be fulfilled in the Coming One; also: The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
“This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”
Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”
And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.
So how is a person righteous if he walks in darkness, that is, the works of the flesh?
Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God. (John 3)
It is also about having deeds exposed and on view. Clearly those who love the light, who have become righteous, will walk in the light in the constant relationship with the Spirit, out of Love for the Spirit and walking according to the Spirits leading.
Here again, we see 'walk'. What did you conclude above about the meaning of 'walk'? Jesus fulfilling the law will do nothing for the one who continues to 'walk' in darkness.
Your definition of walking in light vs walking in darkness presupposes that the analogy of light and darkness relates to the Law of sin and death, whereas it should be obvious that it is Christ Jesus that is the light of the world.
What is this 'unrighteousness' of which John speaks? Why is a person 'unrighteous' if he is imputed Jesus' righteousness? Is Jesus' righteousness unrighteous?
Forsaking the grace of Christ, causing injury to the relationship that we have in Him, not remaining in Him, would constitutes unrighteousness. No amount of subsequent law following apart from Him, brings the sap back to the branch rather it is returning to the trust that we were first given that will put us back on the path.
So, if you and I sin, are we righteous or unrighteous?
Righteousness is determined according to your relationship. It means "to be in right relationship". Clearly if a person sins against a relationship there must be a restoration of that relationship, but it is a work in progress. We have security in our righteousness apart from the Law that exists because of faith in the Spirit of Christ, not our works according to the Law.
The law is fulfilled by keeping it, just as Jesus did.
So what then do you do with the death of Christ?
Forgiveness is for those who break the law. What did John say sin was? Sin is lawlessness. Break the law, one is lawless.
Yes, forgiveness, extended on the grounds of the death of Christ Jesus atoning sacrifice. Now that we are forgiven of our sin, the whole lot, then I am in Him not under condemnation. There is no repeat of the sacrifice every day, He has done it once and for all, for all sin. There is no need for the constant cycle of law breaking, unrighteousness and reconciliation (in fact to do this would be an insult to the efficacy of what Christ Jesus achieved in His death), rather we live in a constant state of righteous relationship with Him, in Him and He in us.
Now He gives us His Spirit, an abiding relationship with Him. The Law is behind us and we are free to bear the fruit of love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Following the law is not heartless/mindless. Adam and Ever were mindless when they disobeyed God's law, not obeyed it. How do you conclude that following the law is heartless/mindless? I surely don't think God would think so.
Strict following of Law takes no account for the person in the state that they are in today. It is a clear cut case of law following or law breaking as opposed to the relationship between parents and children that makes allowance for development and the unique nature of the person at their particular stage of development.
The Law is easy to administer for the sake of less intelligent human authorities, and the Mosaic Law is at the highest pinnacle of Law in this respect, but now (and for 2000 years now) we have the Spirit of Christ:
“This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”
Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”
Jesus never said to die to the law; He said to keep it.
Yes, keep it, by all means and good luck to you. But for those of us who were lawless there is a better way that is perpetually righteous and teaches the Law of the Spirit that renders the written Law superfluous.
How are you crucified with Christ? Please explain this. I would like to hear a reasonable explanation, if you don't mind.
A commitment to identifying with His death and resurrection is made at baptism, now in imitation of Him we lay down our lives daily for those of us around us (our neighbour).
Now every time there is a choice given to us between doing what would benefit ourselves and something that would benefit our neighbour we will be prompted by the Spirit to crucify our own flesh for the benefit of our neighbour. This might be anything from picking up somebody else's rubbish to giving up our holiday savings so somebody (maybe not to "deserving") can buy a car. This is where the Spirit leads me continually and it is at times excruciating.
This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. (1 John 3)
I still don't we need to repent for forsaking grace in those verses. I don't see the need to repent for keeping the law for righteousness. Are you assuming these things?
I feel that you grossly under estimate the terrible Holiness of God and His perfect Law.
The beginning of wisdom is the fear of God, perhaps you haven't truly looked into how fearfully Holy God is. He is perfect and the light of His perfect standard makes us all look very rotten indeed.
Christ Jesus only maintained His sinless nature by living only according to the Spirit, so if you are taking it upon yourself, thinking that by your own good works you can maintain a right relationship with the Most High and Holy God, then this is clearly impossible.
If you rely on the Law for your supposed righteousness then unfortunately you are forsaking what Christ has done for you.
For me, I had to repent of this, the constant cycle of condemnation and shame, trying to follow the law and failing over and over and over and over again, was doing a lot of damage in my life and the lives of my loved ones. It wasn't until I realised how futile and destructive my religious life was and how much Christ had done for me that I was truly able to accept the Cross.
He has offered us His position of favour and righteousness before His Dad and put Himself in our position.
If we trust in Him (and yes the evidence of this trust will manifest in good fruit for that is the outworking of Life and Love), He promises us that we will Live and Love, He in us and we in Him, in complete righteousness.
