The word soul (usage & meaning)

[Hillsage]

What is one's spirit?

What is the “Spirit of God or the “spirit of Christ”? I believe both are the “image” or substance of God. And that same ‘substance’ is in us from God.

1 Joh 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

Job 32:7 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

IOW “one’s spirit” is ‘a spirit’ from God, I believe.

 

[Hillsage]

Paul tells the Ephesians to be “made new in the attitude of your minds”. The Greek word translated as “attitude” in the NIV is the word “pneuma”, whose more common translation is “spirit”. So Paul tells us here that our mind is “spirit”.

“our mind is spirit” only if IF your spirit has been “born again” saved, for you have access to “the mind of Christ’s” spirit in you. If you have that then you still have to choose between being led of your “Spiritual Mind” OR your “carnal mind”.

That will determine whether you will be single minded /spirit soul or a carnal minded and double souled person.

James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways

“double minded” ‘di-psuchos’ or ‘double souled’

Our spirit is our minds (thinking) .... Gods spirit is His mind (thinking). He desires to change our spirit (thinking) to conform to His spirit (thinking) and imparts the Holy Spirit to help us do that.

He desires us to conform our unsaved carnal minded soul to His spirit minded/soul thinking by transformation.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,

 

[eleos1954]

“our mind is spirit” only if IF your spirit has been “born again” saved, for you have access to “the mind of Christ’s” spirit in you. If you have that then you still have to choose between being led of your “Spiritual Mind” OR your “carnal mind”.

That will determine whether you will be single minded /spirit soul or a carnal minded and double souled person.

James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways

“double minded” ‘di-psuchos’ or ‘double souled’


He desires us to conform our unsaved carnal minded soul to His spirit minded/soul thinking by transformation.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,

so... do you agree that our mind is our spirit ... or not?

 

[Hillsage]

Sorry, repeat. Read post 62 again.

 

[Hillsage]

so... do you agree that our mind is our spirit ... or not?

Sorry, repeat. Read post 62 again. I can't make it any clearer.

 

[Butch5]

The word soul.

Opening this thread for the purpose of discussing the word soul and it's usage and meaning in both the OT and the NT.

It will be necessary to use the Hebrew and Greek lexicons as the english language does not adequately provide the depth of meaning.

Available for free use here ... (probably are others)

www.biblehub.com

Will start in the OT where the first appearance/usage of the word (in regard to man) is.

Genesis 2:7

New International Version
Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

King James Bible
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living s

The word soul is used two ways in Scripture. It is used concretely of a living being. It is used abstractly of life itself.
.

 

[Davy]

Then you have to work out the complete salvation of your soul through ‘sanctification’. And you have to do that to the point you are walking in complete obedience to the leading of the ‘holy spirit of Christ in you’, just like Jesus walked, for 30 years in sinlessness before He received the baptism of the Holy Spirit OF GOD.

That of course is not Biblical, because per Apostle Paul in Galatians 3:22, the Scriptures have concluded us all under sin. We can ONLY be counted perfect through Christ's Blood shed upon His cross. It doesn't mean we can be our own Christ, which is actually what you're indirectly saying.

This is why Apostle John showed in 1 John 1 that those who claim they have no sin have made Jesus a liar. He showed when we do sin after... have believed, we still need to repent to Jesus, asking forgiveness, and He cleanses us from it.

Thus the OSAS doctrine is an idea from men, because even Apostle Paul showed in Romans 7 that while in the flesh it is subject to the law of sin that's in its members. We are to try... and not sin, like Lord Jesus, but repent to Him when we mess up, and then move on serving Him.

 

[Andrewn]

The soul: The spiritual principle of human beings. The soul is the subject of human consciousness and freedom; soul and body together form one unique human nature. Each human soul is individual and immortal, immediately created by God. The soul does not die with the body, from which it is separated by death, and with which it will be reunited in the final resurrection. What Exactly Is a Soul?

Animals have a soul but it is not a rational soul. Yes the wages of sin is death. At His death Jesus said "My Father, into your hands I lay down my spirit." He said this and he expired. Luke 23"45. We are spirits that have souls.

“Our soul is our personality, who we are. With our soul we think, reason, consider, remember, and wonder. We experience emotions like happiness, love, sorrow, anger, relief, and compassion. And we’re able to resolve, choose, and make decisions.”

You have defined the "rational soul" and I agree with you. This is what we mean when we talk about the "soul" and what ancient Greek philosophers meant when they talked about the "psyche."

There is a significant problem because the OT "nefesh" has been translated into "psyche" in the LXX and into "soul" in KJV, whereas "nefesh" almost never refers to the "rational soul." It refers to the life force or the being.

The "rational soul" that you accurately described is usually referred to in the Bible as the "heart" and occasionally, especially in the NT, as part of the "spirit."

Posters who described the human "spirit" as the mind or the intellectual faculty are close to the biblical meaning but I think it is more accurate to say that these faculties are part, not the entirety, of the "spirit."

In the New Testament, the Greek word traditionally translated "soul" (ψυχή) "psyche", has substantially the same meaning as the Hebrew, without reference to an immortal soul.

True, most of the time.

I am not aware of any Scripture that indicates that man has an immortal soul. Man as created was not intended to experience death but I think it would be wrong to conclude that man had an immortal soul. The immortal soul was introduced in the philosophy of Plato, if my memory is correct.

I think so, too.

 

[Zao is life]

The word soul.

Opening this thread for the purpose of discussing the word soul and it's usage and meaning in both the OT and the NT.

It will be necessary to use the Hebrew and Greek lexicons as the english language does not adequately provide the depth of meaning.

Available for free use here ... (probably are others)

www.biblehub.com

Will start in the OT where the first appearance/usage of the word (in regard to man) is.

Genesis 2:7

New International Version
Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

King James Bible
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living s

Though I know I may be wrong, this is how I understand it: I think the mistake we make is to place emphasis on the word soul instead of the word living in Genesis 2:7:

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

John 6
63 It is the Spirit that makes alive, the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit and are life.

So Adam died spiritually when he sinned (i.e the Spirit of God was no longer in him and so he no longer had eternal life once he sinned), and so he began to die physically also:

John 3
3 Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born [Greek: ánōthen] (from above), he cannot see the kingdom of God.

00509
ἄνωθεν ánōthen, an'-o-then
from 507;
from above; by analogy, from the first; by implication, anew:--from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.

4 Nicodemus said to Him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born [Greek: ánōthen] (from above).
8 The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice, but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.

So I believe that Adam had a soul when he was created, but only once God breathed the Spirit of Life life into Adam did Adam become a living soul. So once a person has been given life from above by the Spirit of God (breathing life into the soul), then you become body, soul and spirit.

I have noticed though that the Bible uses the words soul and spirit interchangeably when referring to the soul, but I do see the word living as an adjective to the word soul in Genesis 2:7, but for me this is only a guideline.

 

[eleos1954]

Though I know I may be wrong, this is how I understand it: I think the mistake we make is to place emphasis on the word soul instead of the word living in Genesis 2:7:

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

John 6
63 It is the Spirit that makes alive, the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit and are life.

So Adam died spiritually when he sinned (i.e the Spirit of God was no longer in him and so he no longer had eternal life once he sinned), and so he began to die physically also:

John 3
3 Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born [Greek: ánōthen] (from above), he cannot see the kingdom of God.

00509
ἄνωθεν ánōthen, an'-o-then
from 507;
from above; by analogy, from the first; by implication, anew:--from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.

4 Nicodemus said to Him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born [Greek: ánōthen] (from above).
8 The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice, but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.

So I believe that Adam had a soul when he was created, but only once God breathed the Spirit of Life life into Adam did Adam become a living soul. So once a person has been given life from above by the Spirit of God (breathing life into the soul), then you become body, soul and spirit.

I have noticed though that the Bible uses the words soul and spirit interchangeably when referring to the soul, but I do see the word living as an adjective to the word soul in Genesis 2:7, but for me this is only a guideline.

living soul = living being (animals have the same breath of life as well)

The tree of life in the garden was removed .... it was the tree of life that provided immortality .... after sin .... the tree of life was removed (death entered the world)

Genesis 3:22-4

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever--" therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.

We are mortal beings unless we have access to the tree of life ... the saved will one day eat of it again and this will be for eternity and then we will live forever with Him.

"Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates." (Revelation 22:14)

Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him; (NASB) Rev. 22:1-3

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God." (Revelation 2:7)

There is nothing immortal about us .... until we eat from the tree of life and that privilege will happen when Jesus returns and the 1st resurrection happens and takes the saved to heaven.

Man became a living soul (person) when God combined the physical body with the breath of life. You do not have a soul, you are a soul.

The immortal "soul" belief causes one to believe God burns people in "hell" (for eternity no less) .... also not true ... hell is the grave and all wait there until they are resurrected. God does not torture people.

Those in the 2nd resurrection (the lost) will not be granted access to the tree of life (that is in heaven) and they will be raised up mortal and will be destroyed.

 

[Hillsage]

That of course is not Biblical, because per Apostle Paul in Galatians 3:22, the Scriptures have concluded us all under sin. We can ONLY be counted perfect through Christ's Blood shed upon His cross. It doesn't mean we can be our own Christ, which is actually what you're indirectly saying.

Let me share why it is "bibilical". Let me start with your verse in Galatians.

GAL 3:22 But the scripture consigned all things to sin, that what was promised to faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 Now before faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed. 24 So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian; 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

What exactly was "Promised" to us who are "sons of God, through faith"? Well, for starters we have a "HIGH CALLING" which most of the nominal church is clueless of, let alone striving for. We are called to be "the image of the stature of the fullness of Christ." And what does that look like? It look just like scripture says; "creation groans for the manifestation of the sons of God."....this side of glory. We aren't going to do creation any good on the other side of glory.

PHI 3:14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Now what do you think the "prize" is? Hopefully not going to heaven. Because that's not the prize in the bible.

EPH 4:13 ...attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of Go, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ;

We aren't called to walk in 'our faith in Christ' we are called to walk with the "faith OF Christ in us the hope of glory".

COL 1:27 To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

GAL 4:19 My little children (immature Christians), with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!

Do you want to limit your PRIZE to getting to heaven? Not me, I want to bring heaven to earth just like Jesus did. We have more authority available than He even had on earth, according to the BIBLE. But you will not have access to Him given it ALL until you are as holy as He was.

1PE 1:14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, 15 but as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in all your conduct; 16 since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."

If you can't be as holy as He is holy, then maybe what you have been taught isn't as correct as what I have just presented from the BIBLE.

And you aren't going to 'do it in your strength', you are going to have to do it through "Christ IN YOU the hope of Glory."

This is why Apostle John showed in 1 John 1 that those who claim they have no sin have made Jesus a liar. He showed when we do sin after... have believed, we still need to repent to Jesus, asking forgiveness, and He cleanses us from it.

~Walking in the Light
1JO 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not live according to the truth;
7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

When you learn the difference between the IMPUTED righteousness of Christ which eternally FORGAVE us of our sins eternal judgment, compared to the IMPARTED righteousness of Christ which CLEANSES us from committing sins with temporal judgments here on this side of heaven, then you will have learned a greater truth. A truth which will make you strive for more than most.

Thus the OSAS doctrine is an idea from men, because even Apostle Paul showed in Romans 7 that while in the flesh it is subject to the law of sin that's in its members. We are to try... and not sin, like Lord Jesus, but repent to Him when we mess up, and then move on serving Him.

This would take me explaining through the whole chapter what I just laid the groundwork out for above. But if you still need help unpacking it, let me know, I will try to do so.

May God be on ya.

 

[Davy]

Let me share why it is "bibilical". Let me start with your verse in Galatians.

GAL 3:22 But the scripture consigned all things to sin, that what was promised to faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 Now before faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed. 24 So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian; 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

I don't trust many of the later modern New Testament versions. I still rely on the KJV translation, which reads...

Gal 3:22
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
KJV

That Galatians 3:22 verse is all we need to understand how we cannot ever... be our 'own' Christ in this world of flesh.

What your ideology is trying to do is to reduce the divinity of Christ Jesus as The Son of God, and as part of The Godhead.

Maybe you're not aware that's what you're theory (from men, you aren't the first with that idea), is actually doing.

If you could actually become 'perfect' in this life, then you would not need Jesus Christ. You would become your 'own'... Christ, which is impossible!

But I'll tell you who else is pushing that FALSE DOCTRINE today, it's the secret societies of the initiate fraternities. They actually teach that through mystical practice and meditation that we can become our 'own' Christ, by attuning to the so-called "Christ spirit". They don't believe Jesus of Nazareth was actually God come in the flesh, they believe Jesus was only... a flesh born man like us, and nothing more. They believe Jesus was super advanced mystically though, having been initiated in the ancient mystery schools of ancient Greece and Egypt, and the Far East. They teach that Jesus attuned to the "Christ Spirit" to become The Christ, and that anyone can do that too if they follow Him!

THAT... is actually the idea you are pushing, whether you know it or not. That is an ancient form of GNOSTICISM of those on 1st century Greek mystical philosophy. They still exist today in those mystery schools of secret societies like the Rosicrucians, etc.

 

[Hillsage]

I don't trust many of the later modern New Testament versions. I still rely on the KJV translation, which reads...

Gal 3:22
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
KJV

I don't care what translation you read, those 4 verses I quoted IN CONTEXT prove you're wrong.

That Galatians 3:22 verse is all we need to understand how we cannot ever... be our 'own' Christ in this world of flesh.

It proves no such thing. It proves we all needed Christ before we could ever have access to "the high calling of Christ in us the hope of glory" a calling of being the EXACT "image of the stature of the fullness of Jesus".

What your ideology is trying to do is to reduce the divinity of Christ Jesus as The Son of God, and as part of The Godhead.

Maybe you're not aware that's what you're theory (from men, you aren't the first with that idea), is actually doing.

I don't care about your theory from men either, I care about all the scriptures I've quoted and commented on and how lame your rebuttal has been in dealing with SOME of them.

If you could actually become 'perfect' in this life, then you would not need Jesus Christ. You would become your 'own'... Christ, which is impossible!

But I'll tell you who else is pushing that FALSE DOCTRINE today, it's the secret societies of the initiate fraternities. They actually teach that through mystical practice and meditation that we can become our 'own' Christ, by attuning to the so-called "Christ spirit". They don't believe Jesus of Nazareth was actually God come in the flesh, they believe Jesus was only... a flesh born man like us, and nothing more. They believe Jesus was super advanced mystically though, having been initiated in the ancient mystery schools of ancient Greece and Egypt, and the Far East. They teach that Jesus attuned to the "Christ Spirit" to become The Christ, and that anyone can do that too if they follow Him!

THAT... is actually the idea you are pushing, whether you know it or not. That is an ancient form of GNOSTICISM of those on 1st century Greek mystical philosophy. They still exist today in those mystery schools of secret societies like the Rosicrucians, etc.

You appear clueless of what I'm saying and with this post I will just leave you with your opinion. And I will continue to strive for being 'perfect as my heavenly Father is perfect'.

MAT 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

And, as many other scriptures attest to, more perfection proofs.

1PE 1:14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, 15 but as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in all your conduct; 16 since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."

2CO 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

EPH 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

PHI 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

COL 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

2TI 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


HEB 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Like this verse above points out, maybe your theology is still under "the law" too.

 

[Davy]

I don't care what translation you read, those 4 verses I quoted IN CONTEXT prove you're wrong.

No they don't. The corrupt translation you're using instead hides what the KJV translation makes plain about Galatians 3:22, that ALL... have been concluded under sin so that the Promise by Faith of Jesus Christ would be to those who believe. That says nothing about works salvation, which is also what you're trying to push. As a matter of fact, Apostle Paul was also very plain against the idea of works salvation (Romans 3:27-31).

It proves no such thing. It proves we all needed Christ before we could ever have access to "the high calling of Christ in us the hope of glory" a calling of being the EXACT "image of the stature of the fullness of Jesus".

I don't care about your theory from men either, I care about all the scriptures I've quoted and commented on and how lame your rebuttal has been in dealing with SOME of them.

What I have declared is The Word of God, as written, and no theory from men. You are pushing a LIE from the devil himself, because the very temptation he used against Adam and Eve was telling them they can become their OWN god, which is the same thing as your... saying we can literally become perfect like Jesus Christ!

What you are sir, is a lying charlatan, and most likely a representative of one of the secret societies connected with the ancient mystery schools of initiation. I've heard your false rhetoric before, so it's not your idea.