The Word of God

Usus Vox Tractus · Jul 29, 2014

znr said:
You're coming across like a nut job. No offense.

None taken. My nut was cracked a while back now...just getting above the soil.

Most pioneers in spiritual and thought are called insane by the world. It's expected. All the better for skillful practice.

znr · Jul 29, 2014

Peyote much? I see only two explanations here for your self aggrandizement, inflated ego induced by self delusion or psychedelics.

Usus Vox Tractus said:
None taken. My nut was cracked a while back now...just getting above the soil.

Most pioneers in spiritual and thought are called insane by the world. It's expected. All the better for skillful practice.

Usus Vox Tractus · Jul 29, 2014

znr said:
Testify, Timothy Leary!

Well here's a thing to ponder: Inside the universe matter exists as a flying wave form 99.99999999% empty space.

In between the universes all space is taken up by matter in it's original form. 100% full.

The atom is the a particulate expression of a wave form that exists as a single particle. The atom is self similar in holographic image to the universe.

The universe has a center and a spherical boundary made of the same stuff. The body in the center of the universe is the cause of dark flow. The bend of space time we are in is shape like a doughnut.

...and it moves like a flying serpent biting it's tail.

Matter is on the bottom half of the universe. Anti-matter or the local heaven is on the top half

What else would you like to explore?

znr · Jul 29, 2014

I have no clue what you're talking about but I suspect you don't either.

Usus Vox Tractus said:
Well here's a thing to ponder: Inside the universe matter exists as a flying wave form 99.99999999% empty space.

In between the universes all space is taken up by matter in it's original form. 100% full.

The atom is the a particulate expression of a wave form that exists as a single particle. The atom is self similar in holographic image to the universe.

The universe has a center and a spherical boundary made of the same stuff. The body in the center of the universe is the cause of dark flow. The bend of space time we are in is shape like a doughnut.

...and it moves like a flying serpent biting it's tail.

Matter is on the bottom half of the universe. Anti-matter or the local heaven is on the top half

What else would you like to explore?

znr · Jul 29, 2014

Sorry for derailing your thread, OP. I was carried away. Please accept my apology.

Usus Vox Tractus · Jul 29, 2014

znr said:
Peyote much? I see only two explanations here for your self aggrandizement, inflated ego induced by self delusion or psychedelics.

Where do I self aggrandize? I was explaining part of the transformative process I have gone through to know what I know. It is the Truth that is grand, not me.

If I did use the talents I have been given, I would be in error. if I did not multiply and share them, I would be in poverty.

What I tell you about the universe and beyond is not only based on simple math, pure logic and mountains of evidence, but it's shadow echo's throughout mankinds religious myths.

I have had many spiritual experiences to aid and guide me. I have consumed mass quantities of information. I have work in trees for the past 13 years and my mind is viscerally trained for balance, super-symmetry, and one life risking step at a time. This is something long in growth and cultivation.

Like the eagerness of sharing with my best friend, I offer you a look at my treasure map. I am not your "superior", I am at your service, like a bridge. I expect to be walked upon and passed over.

Usus Vox Tractus · Jul 29, 2014

znr said:
I have no clue what you're talking about but I suspect you don't either.

What I am taking about is the standing wave Image of God lofted by the Word of God. The same Image of God man and woman are made in. The "They" that said "Let us create man..."

There are 4 "wheels within wheels" that only pair up "A with B" and "C with D" . "B and D" is larger than "A and C"

There is a spiraling tunnel of light from top to bottom and the whole thing is encompassed by a spherical canopy of GOD at place holder 10.

The wheels and tunnel divide the universe into 6 spaces by 5 moving strings.

The Holy One rules the very center and holds everything together between the two halves of the universe. (Heavens above, earths below) It is divided by the "surface of a sea of glass". The Lord sits on a Throne in the center of it.

Your DNA is a spiraling tube of information that emits photons. It has 4 base pairs that only pair up AT and GC. T and C are larger than A and G.

The molecules that make up ATCG are rings of 5 and 6 atoms.

Joining the two rungs together at each level is the hydrogen atom. One proton/electron pair. The 1 on the periodic table. The first atom. It divides the DNA in vertical half.

As a repeating spiral structure, your DNA has a 10 point internal and external crystal symmetry and it makes one you.

See my avatar for details.

Still think I am just whistling Dixie?

quatona · Jul 29, 2014

Tree of Life said:
Imagine for a moment that the God of theism exists. This means that all of creation - the natural world, the intangible world of values, persons, etc - is the handiwork of a divine person. Absolute, eternal reality is a person rather than a set of impersonal values or natural laws.

Imagine further that this God desired to communicate to created persons. He revealed himself through words, gave commands to be obeyed, and revealed truths to be believed.

Would the word of this God be open to question and criticism from his creatures? Why or why not?

In view of the fact that God has created his creatures to have the ability to question and criticize I see no basis for answering your question "no".

Since the "communication" desired by God, as you picture it, is basically a one way communication (with the creator instructing the creatures, and the creatures nodding and saying "yes, yes"), it seems that the way he "handicrafted" them was counterproductive to his goals.

I also find it a bit odd that God, in his attempt to communicate "eternal truth and reality" chooses human language which humans have created for the purpose of dealing with human reality. This attempt is bound to fail, for obvious reasons.

dysert · Jul 29, 2014

variant said:
My point is that the only reason to be upset when you are questioned is because you don't have the answer.

No, that's not the only reason. You might be upset because you are *infinitely* beyond your creation in every respect and yet your creation is presumptive (I'm being kind) enough to question you. It's the absolute pinnacle of arrogance.

Freodin · Jul 29, 2014

dysert said:
No, that's not the only reason. You might be upset because you are *infinitely* beyond your creation in every respect and yet your creation is presumptive (I'm being kind) enough to question you. It's the absolute pinnacle of arrogance.

Why would an infinitly beyond creator be upset by anything his creation did?
That would assume that the creation did not work as intended by the creator... which does not speak for "infinitly beyond".
Or that the creator blames his creation for not working as intended... which again does not proclaim "infinitly beyond".

As I see it, this whole problem does not originate from this potential creator at all. Rather it is the creatures who, in their limited ways, tend to supress any disagreement with their view by extrapolating it to the creator and using that to shut up the opposition.

If there was indeed a creator as portrayed in the OP, this whole topic would be moot. Communication would be unmisunderstandable, commandments would be obeyed, revelations would be believed.

That these creations are all set to use their own judgements to make decisions with "free will" would be a certain sign that this creator wants to be analysed, critizised and questioned.

bhsmte · Jul 29, 2014

Usus Vox Tractus said:
I have evidence for my faith. I have searched the deep things of God and have found His Kingdom....because I sought it first.

I can tell you and show you what no man has ever heard or seen. And yet many before me have known it. Without their works, I would have nothing to check mine against.

It's simple enough for a child to understand.

Or, it requires a child's mind to accept.

bhsmte · Jul 29, 2014

Tree of Life said:
Imagine for a moment that the God of theism exists. This means that all of creation - the natural world, the intangible world of values, persons, etc - is the handiwork of a divine person. Absolute, eternal reality is a person rather than a set of impersonal values or natural laws.

Imagine further that this God desired to communicate to created persons. He revealed himself through words, gave commands to be obeyed, and revealed truths to be believed.

Would the word of this God be open to question and criticism from his creatures? Why or why not?

Ok, I have imagined that this God does exist in my mind.

What comes to my mind is this; a whole bunch of questions I would like to ask him on; his poor communication skills, and his seemingly double standard and sometimes immoral commands or judgments.

So yes, to me, very open to question and criticism.

Received · Jul 29, 2014

The OP is good and well, but not interesting enough. What if the Word is really some sort of incorporeal metaphysical "thing" that upholds all existence, much like the word of a person has the power of creating something that wasn't there before and therefore influencing the existing order of things? What if this Word is present in conscience, and even is the basis of what the self authentically is?

That's much more relevant, concrete theology, IMO, than that the Word became flesh for a particular moment of time and we're all trying to get the concepts down correctly about this fleshly Word.

lesliedellow · Jul 29, 2014

If it could be proven 100% that such a God existed, it would clearly be senseless for even the most arrogant halfwit to contradict him.

So the debate comes down to one about his existence, doesn't it?

bhsmte · Jul 29, 2014

lesliedellow said:
If it could be proven 100% that such a God existed, it would clearly be senseless for even the most arrogant halfwit to contradict him.

So the debate comes down to one about his existence, doesn't it?

Not what the OP asked.

The existence of the God is asked to be assumed as correct and the question of his word and communication are what he asked whether they should be questioned.

lesliedellow · Jul 29, 2014

bhsmte said:
Not what the OP asked.

The existence of the God is asked to be assumed as correct and the question of his word and communication are what he asked whether they should be questioned.

He got the answer in the first paragraph of my reply. In case you haven't noticed the logo, I am of like theological opinions as the OP, and Calvinists go big on the sovereignty of God.

Usus Vox Tractus · Jul 29, 2014

bhsmte said:
Or, it requires a child's mind to accept.

It takes a Zen mind to consider a thing on it's own merit without all your collected biases derailing you.

And children have better, faster imaginations than adults.

The also play. When was the last time you played?

bhsmte · Jul 29, 2014

Usus Vox Tractus said:
It takes a Zen mind to consider a thing on it's own merit without all your collected biases derailing you.

And children have better, faster imaginations than adults.

The also play. When was the last time you played?

Yesterday.

variant · Jul 29, 2014

Usus Vox Tractus said:
What's the super important message? Only in your wrestling will you gain strength. Only in working for it will you value it.

Says you. I'm not the one saying people should be trying to have a conversation with subtle whispers in they might hear in their head after an appropriate mental conditioning.

As you probably figured out, I am not a "Christian". My religion is not of this time or world.

6 of one, half dozen of the other.

variant · Jul 29, 2014

dysert said:
No, that's not the only reason. You might be upset because you are *infinitely* beyond your creation in every respect and yet your creation is presumptive (I'm being kind) enough to question you. It's the absolute pinnacle of arrogance.

A God that big can't get upset at the obvious questioning you are going to get when you create independent mental beings.

If I know that if I create an AI capable of questioning my motivations, it will obviously do so, how could an incomprehensibly superior God have missed this point?

God can't possibly both be incomprehensibly superior and petty/indignant at the obvious consequences of it's actions at the same time.

So no, questioning God is likely to not be a problem at all, as I said, it would have the answers and it would be an easy sell given that kind of access, what you seem to be upset by is my questioning of YOUR idea of God since we don't really have clarity at all in the real world of what (if anything) any God would want.

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