The word “murder” means “kill” in the King James Bible (Bible Study)

[Bible Highlighter]

I never have implied that the Father murdered the Son. The question of responsibility was already
established by Christ in Matthew 23, and unwittingly acknowledged by the religious leaders.

It was not implying that you did. It was a typo on my part and you quoted my post that had the typo in it that could be read that way (When that is not what I was intending with my words). In short, it was my fault. My words were not clear initially.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Minister Monardo

Thank you for your kindness.

May the Lord’s Spirit and good ways be upon you greatly today.

 

[eleos1954]

Introduction:

It is very odd, and I am almost should not have to say it because it’s obvious, but apparently some Christians are under the false assumptions that “murder” and “kill” are not saying the same thing. I have never heard of such a crazy thing before, and I am going to just lay out some simple points that you should know (if you don’t know basic English or the Bible).​

First, lets establish by the dictionary that the word “kill” can be defined as “murder” according to Dictionary.com.

Source:
Definition of kill | Dictionary.com

The same can be said for murder. Yes, murder at the heart is unlawful killing usually with malice. But at the heart, it still involves killing of some kind.

Source:
Murder | Definition of Murder by Webster's Online Dictionary

Source:
Keyword search on “murder” at BlueLetterBible

Source:
The word “murder” defined in the Strong’s at BlueLetterBible

While I am not saying that the killing by God’s people in the Old Testament under God’s command is murder. My point is that murder at the heart involves some form of killing or taking another life (with some added details). Meaning murder is unlawful killing which usually (not always) has some kind of malice attached. But if you are still in doubt, lets establish by Scripture how the word “kill” can mean “murder.”

Jesus said,
“…but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.”
(Matthew 19:17).

The young rich ruler asked Jesus,
“Which?”
(Matthew 19:18).

Jesus replied,
“Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:18-19).

The young rich ruler replied,
“All these things have I kept from my youth up…”
(Matthew 19:20).
​

Now, how would the young rich ruler know of these commands? By the Torah. Obviously Jesus at the beginning of Jesus’ reply, He was referring to a few of the Ten Commandments. Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother (Which are all a part of the Ten Commandments). Jesus then adds in from another part of the Torah to love your neighbor, as well. Obviously the young rich ruler would have been familiar with these commands from the Torah that we can read in our Bible today.

The word “murder” even appears 4 times in the Old Testament within the King James Bible.
So what does “murder” mean in relation to the command that says, “Thou shalt not kill” in Exodus 20:13? Was Jesus referring to a Torah command in the Old Testament that we did not get to read? No. This is because the command “Thou shalt not kill” in Exodus 20:13 is the same command that Jesus stated as “Thou shalt do no murder” in Matthew 19:18.

So while there is a difference between the killing (or taking of life) that God commanded to bring about justice in the Old Testament vs. murder, we have to understand that murder is also killing at it’s very core or heart but the difference is that murder is unlawful killing outside of God’s commands and it usually involves malice or ungodly hatred in many cases.

The 7th day Sabbath is not a ceremonial law ... and this is what Jesus says this about the law and the prophets.

Matthew 5:17

Contemporary English Version
Don't suppose I came to do away with the Law and the Prophets. I did not come to do away with them, but to give them their full meaning (and He did by the example of how He lived His life as a human being).

Did Jesus keep the law (including the 7th Sabbath)? Yes He Did. Did He do so because He was a Jew? No ..... because He created the day before there were any Jews ... created for all of mankind to enjoy with Him.

You think it was coincidence Jesus rested in the grave on the 7th day Sabbath?

Jesus rested (on the 7th) on completion of His creation work .... and rested on the 7th the completion of His work of redemption.

The law that was done away with were the ones handwritten by Moses and placed on the side of the ark (done away with at the cross) .... the 10 were placed inside the ark (under the mercy seat).

If there is no law .... how does Jesus judge rightly? How is it one can remove the 7th day Sabbath when it is right smack in the middle of the 10?

Daniel 7:25

English Standard Version
He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; ...

Revelation 14:4

Berean Study Bible
These are the ones who have not been defiled with women (false teachings within church systems), for they are virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever He goes. They have been redeemed from among men as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

Follow the lamb wherever He goes.

Does God want us to sin (transgression of the law)? No.

The law leads us to Christ and after we receive Him as Lord and Savior ... He leads us back to the law and gives the power through the Holy Spirit to overcome sin (transgression of the law) and we will mess up here and there .... but though Him we begin again ... and continue our journey (walk with Him).

Nothing wrong with God's law .... something wrong with us and our thinking needs to be changed.

Philippians 1:6

New Living Translation
And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns.

THANK YOU LORD JESUS ..... AMEN !!!!!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The 7th day Sabbath is not a ceremonial law ... and this is what Jesus says this about the law and the prophets.

Matthew 5:17

Contemporary English Version
Don't suppose I came to do away with the Law and the Prophets. I did not come to do away with them, but to give them their full meaning (and He did by the example of how He lived His life as a human being).

Did Jesus keep the law (including the 7th Sabbath)? Yes He Did. Did He do so because He was a Jew? No ..... because He created the day before there were any Jews ... created for all of mankind to enjoy with Him.

You think it was coincidence Jesus rested in the grave on the 7th day Sabbath?

Jesus rested (on the 7th) on completion of His creation work .... and rested on the 7th the completion of His work of redemption.

The law that was done away with were the ones handwritten by Moses and placed on the side of the ark (done away with at the cross) .... the 10 were placed inside the ark (under the mercy seat).

If there is no law .... how does Jesus judge rightly? How is it one can remove the 7th day Sabbath when it is right smack in the middle of the 10?

Daniel 7:25

English Standard Version
He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; ...

Revelation 14:4

Berean Study Bible
These are the ones who have not been defiled with women (false teachings within church systems), for they are virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever He goes. They have been redeemed from among men as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

Follow the lamb wherever He goes.

Does God want us to sin (transgression of the law)? No.

The law leads us to Christ and after we receive Him as Lord and Savior ... He leads us back to the law and gives the power through the Holy Spirit to overcome sin (transgression of the law) and we will mess up here and there .... but though Him we begin again ... and continue our journey (walk with Him).

Nothing wrong with God's law .... something wrong with us and our thinking needs to be changed.

Philippians 1:6

New Living Translation
And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns.

THANK YOU LORD JESUS ..... AMEN !!!!!

Nowhere did I bring up the topic of the topic of the Sabbath. This thread is not about debating the Sabbath. This is not what this thread is about. Please stay on topic to the thread please. I don’t want my thread being derailed by this kind of topic or debate.

Thank you, and may the Lord bless you.

 

[eleos1954]

Nowhere did I bring up the topic of the topic of the Sabbath. This thread is not about debating the Sabbath. This is not what this thread is about. Please stay on topic to the thread please. I don’t want my thread being derailed by this kind of topic or debate.

Thank you, and may the Lord bless you.

I would argue every time you post you are bringing it up (it being in your signature), but ok I digress

When I speak of how we must obey God's laws: I am referring primarily to how we must obey those commands in the New Testament, and not the Old Testament. Things like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, the Passover, etc. are ceremonial laws that are no longer binding upon the life of the believer today under the New Covenant. We should focus on obeying those commands that come from Jesus and His followers.

May the Lord bless you as well.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I would argue every time you post you are bringing it up (it being in your signature), but ok I digress

When I speak of how we must obey God's laws: I am referring primarily to how we must obey those commands in the New Testament, and not the Old Testament. Things like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, the Passover, etc. are ceremonial laws that are no longer binding upon the life of the believer today under the New Covenant. We should focus on obeying those commands that come from Jesus and His followers.

May the Lord bless you as well.

Okay. You really have to not take my signature as the topic of a thread, my friend.
They are not the same thing. My signature is my signature and a thread topic is a thread topic. There is a difference between the two.

I am not even remotely interested at this time in discussing the Sabbath issue.
I hope you understand.

Anyways, please have a blessed day in the Lord.

 

[eleos1954]

Introduction:

It is very odd, and I am almost should not have to say it because it’s obvious, but apparently some Christians are under the false assumptions that “murder” and “kill” are not saying the same thing entirely. I have never heard of such a crazy thing before, and I am going to just lay out some simple points that you should know (if you don’t know basic English or the Bible).​

First, lets establish by the dictionary that the word “kill” can be defined as “murder” according to Dictionary.com.

Source:
Definition of kill | Dictionary.com

The same can be said for murder. Yes, murder at the heart is unlawful killing usually with malice. But at the heart, it still involves killing of some kind.

Source:
Murder | Definition of Murder by Webster's Online Dictionary

Source:
Keyword search on “murder” at BlueLetterBible

Source:
The word “murder” defined in the Strong’s at BlueLetterBible

While I am not saying that the killing by God’s people in the Old Testament under God’s command is murder, my point is that murder at the heart involves some form of killing or taking another life (with some added details). Meaning murder is unlawful killing which usually (not always) has some kind of malice attached. But if you are still in doubt, lets establish by Scripture how the word “kill” can mean “murder.”

Jesus said,
“…but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.”
(Matthew 19:17).

The young rich ruler asked Jesus,
“Which?”
(Matthew 19:18).

Jesus replied,
“Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:18-19).

The young rich ruler replied,
“All these things have I kept from my youth up…”
(Matthew 19:20).
​

Now, how would the young rich ruler know of these commands? By the Torah. Obviously Jesus at the beginning of Jesus’ reply, He was referring to a few of the Ten Commandments. Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother (Which are all a part of the Ten Commandments). Jesus then adds in from another part of the Torah to love your neighbor, as well. Obviously the young rich ruler would have been familiar with these commands from the Torah that we can read in our Bible today.

The word “murder” even appears 4 times in the Old Testament within the King James Bible.
So what does “murder” mean in relation to the command that says, “Thou shalt not kill” in Exodus 20:13? Was Jesus referring to a Torah command in the Old Testament that we did not get to read? No. This is because the command “Thou shalt not kill” in Exodus 20:13 is the same command that Jesus stated as “Thou shalt do no murder” in Matthew 19:18.

So while there is a difference between the killing (or taking of life) that God commanded to bring about justice in the Old Testament vs. murder, we have to understand that murder is also killing at it’s very core or heart but the difference is that murder is unlawful killing outside of God’s commands and it usually involves malice or ungodly hatred in many cases.

Genesis 9:5-6
And for your lifeblood I will require a reckoning: from every beast I will require it and from man. From his fellow man I will require a reckoning for the life of man. “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.

???

 

[Palmfever]

Hard to murder someone without the killing.
The KJV translates Strong's H2026 in the following manner: slay (100x), kill (24x), kill... (3x), murderer (2x), destroyed (1x), murder (1x), out of hand (1x), made (1x), put (1x), slain (31x), slayer (1x), surely (1x).



The KJV translates Strong's H7523 in the following manner: slayer (16x), murderer (14x), kill (5x), murder (3x), slain (3x), manslayer (2x), killing (1x), slayer (with H310) (1x), slayeth (1x), death (1x).



The KJV translates Strong's G5407 in the following manner: kill (10x), do murder (1x), slay (1x).



The KJV translates Strong's G5408 in the following manner: murder (8x), slaughter (1x), be slain (with G599) (1x).

 

[Bob_1000]

Introduction:

It is very odd, and I am almost should not have to say it because it’s obvious, but apparently some Christians are under the false assumptions that “murder” and “kill” are not saying the same thing entirely. I have never heard of such a crazy thing before, and I am going to just lay out some simple points that you should know (if you don’t know basic English or the Bible).​

First, lets establish by the dictionary that the word “kill” can be defined as “murder” according to Dictionary.com.

Source:
Definition of kill | Dictionary.com

The same can be said for murder. Yes, murder at the heart is unlawful killing usually with malice. But at the heart, it still involves killing of some kind.

Source:
Murder | Definition of Murder by Webster's Online Dictionary

Source:
Keyword search on “murder” at BlueLetterBible

Source:
The word “murder” defined in the Strong’s at BlueLetterBible

While I am not saying that the killing by God’s people in the Old Testament under God’s command is murder, my point is that murder at the heart involves some form of killing or taking another life (with some added details). Meaning murder is unlawful killing which usually (not always) has some kind of malice attached. But if you are still in doubt, lets establish by Scripture how the word “kill” can mean “murder.”

Jesus said,
“…but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.”
(Matthew 19:17).

The young rich ruler asked Jesus,
“Which?”
(Matthew 19:18).

Jesus replied,
“Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:18-19).

The young rich ruler replied,
“All these things have I kept from my youth up…”
(Matthew 19:20).
​

Now, how would the young rich ruler know of these commands? By the Torah. Obviously Jesus at the beginning of Jesus’ reply, He was referring to a few of the Ten Commandments. Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother (Which are all a part of the Ten Commandments). Jesus then adds in from another part of the Torah to love your neighbor, as well. Obviously the young rich ruler would have been familiar with these commands from the Torah that we can read in our Bible today.

The word “murder” even appears 4 times in the Old Testament within the King James Bible.
So what does “murder” mean in relation to the command that says, “Thou shalt not kill” in Exodus 20:13? Was Jesus referring to a Torah command in the Old Testament that we did not get to read? No. This is because the command “Thou shalt not kill” in Exodus 20:13 is the same command that Jesus stated as “Thou shalt do no murder” in Matthew 19:18.

So while there is a difference between the killing (or taking of life) that God commanded to bring about justice in the Old Testament vs. murder, we have to understand that murder is also killing at it’s very core or heart but the difference is that murder is unlawful killing outside of God’s commands and it usually involves malice or ungodly hatred in many cases.

If murder is the same as killing then why, according to the law, is the murder put to death but someone who kills someone accidentally is not out to death?

 

[Palmfever]

If murder is the same as killing then why, according to the law, is the murder put to death but someone who kills someone accidentally is not out to death?

So, I guess if while cleaning out our second story gutters we fall off the ladder and survive cause we landed on the neighbor and he died while shaking the ladder as a joke.

 

[Jamdoc]

Introduction:

It is very odd, and I am almost should not have to say it because it’s obvious, but apparently some Christians are under the false assumptions that “murder” and “kill” are not saying the same thing entirely. I have never heard of such a crazy thing before, and I am going to just lay out some simple points that you should know (if you don’t know basic English or the Bible).​

First, lets establish by the dictionary that the word “kill” can be defined as “murder” according to Dictionary.com.

Source:
Definition of kill | Dictionary.com

The same can be said for murder. Yes, murder at the heart is unlawful killing usually with malice. But at the heart, it still involves killing of some kind.

Source:
Murder | Definition of Murder by Webster's Online Dictionary

Source:
Keyword search on “murder” at BlueLetterBible

Source:
The word “murder” defined in the Strong’s at BlueLetterBible

While I am not saying that the killing by God’s people in the Old Testament under God’s command is murder, my point is that murder at the heart involves some form of killing or taking another life (with some added details). Meaning murder is unlawful killing which usually (not always) has some kind of malice attached. But if you are still in doubt, lets establish by Scripture how the word “kill” can mean “murder.”

Jesus said,
“…but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.”
(Matthew 19:17).

The young rich ruler asked Jesus,
“Which?”
(Matthew 19:18).

Jesus replied,
“Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:18-19).

The young rich ruler replied,
“All these things have I kept from my youth up…”
(Matthew 19:20).
​

Now, how would the young rich ruler know of these commands? By the Torah. Obviously Jesus at the beginning of Jesus’ reply, He was referring to a few of the Ten Commandments. Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother (Which are all a part of the Ten Commandments). Jesus then adds in from another part of the Torah to love your neighbor, as well. Obviously the young rich ruler would have been familiar with these commands from the Torah that we can read in our Bible today.

The word “murder” even appears 4 times in the Old Testament within the King James Bible.
So what does “murder” mean in relation to the command that says, “Thou shalt not kill” in Exodus 20:13? Was Jesus referring to a Torah command in the Old Testament that we did not get to read? No. This is because the command “Thou shalt not kill” in Exodus 20:13 is the same command that Jesus stated as “Thou shalt do no murder” in Matthew 19:18.

So while there is a difference between the killing (or taking of life) that God commanded to bring about justice in the Old Testament vs. murder, we have to understand that murder is also killing at it’s very core or heart but the difference is that murder is unlawful killing outside of God’s commands and it usually involves malice or ungodly hatred in many cases.

So whats your argument here, that self defense is murder?
The old testament (Numbers 35) also set apart cities as safe havens in the event of accidentally killing someone so that people wouldn't take vengeance on the person who accidentally killed someone they didn't hate

Not to mention, it doesn't even always involve killing as Jesus taught

Matthew 5

21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

The issue is the hate, malice, and not valuing other people's lives.

 

[Bob_1000]

So, I guess if while cleaning out our second story gutters we fall off the ladder and survive cause we landed on the neighbor and he died while shaking the ladder as a joke.

Right, or a guy not maintaining his axe and the axe head flies off and hits his neighbor in the head and kills him.

 

[Palmfever]

I guess the question is then, was there any tampering with the axe handle? One would be 1st degree and the other negligent homicide. Or accidental death. Kinda like in scripture.
In that scenario, were the neighbors getting along? Just asking I didn't know them very well.

 

[Bob_1000]

I guess the question is then, was there any tampering with the axe handle? One would be 1st degree and the other negligent homicide. Or accidental death. Kinda like in scripture.

Exactly and that’s why the Bible says “thou shalt not kill”.

 

[Palmfever]

Exactly and that’s why the Bible says “thou shalt not kill”.

Any room for self defense? Like intruders intending evil towards your wife, children?
I think that scripture means killing with intent or premeditation. Like Cain and his jealousy. In the parable Christ spoke of the one person who helped a man that had been beaten after others passed on by. What if he had been walking by when it started. should he just wait and see if the guy survives so can help him or go have a drink and come back later? Maybe bring out his whip and drive them away as Christ did from the temple. We are after all the temple of God. It is a choice an individual in those circumstances would need to make for themselves. Governments that God sets up.

 

[Bob_1000]

Any room for self defense? Like intruders intending evil towards your wife, children?
I think that scripture means killing with intent or premeditation. Like Cain and his jealousy. In the parable Christ spoke of the one person who helped a man that had been beaten after others passed on by. What if he had been walking by when it started. should he just wait and see if the guy survives so can help him or go have a drink and come back later? Maybe bring out his whip and drive them away as Christ did from the temple. We are after all the temple of God. It is a choice an individual in those circumstances would need to make for themselves. Governments that God sets up.

What if God sent that intruder that intended to do harm to you or your family so that when he saw your lack of fear and faith in God he got saved. God is way more capable of defending me and my family than I am.

 

[Palmfever]

What if God sent that intruder that intended to do harm to you or your family so that when he saw your lack of fear and faith in God he got saved. God is way more capable of defending me and my family than I am.

True, then again;
Hebrews 11:37.
They were put to death by stoning; they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.

39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Then the others ... verse 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again.

Faith is in God, not physical assistance. So it is still a choice an individual must make for his/herself.
Kids are kidnapped and forced to be in someones army, they do awful things to save there own life. Christ said it is better to tie a large rock around your neck and jump into the sea than to cause a child to stumble. Girls are kidnapped, raped and killed. I'd like to think I would intervene, perhaps not be successful, perhaps yes, however I doubt it would keep me up very long at night. if I saved a child. etc. I'm not Calvinist, I don't believe a persons life is predetermined. Why would Christ say we should not lead children astray and cause them to stumble if they are saved or lost before they are born. What's the difference? "Kill them all and let God sort them out" someone I knew used to say.
So some don't believe Police or soldiers should kill? I think seventh day Adventists believe this and I respect them for it. there are other ways to serve in the military.
So we can have faith in God... staying safe and perfectly healthy our entire life unharmed. Nah. We make our own choices.
'Happy is the man who condemns not himself in the things which he allows.'

 

[Bob_1000]

True, then again;
Hebrews 11:37.
They were put to death by stoning; they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.

39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Then the others ... verse 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again.

Faith is in God, not physical assistance. So it is still a choice an individual must make for his/herself.
Kids are kidnapped and forced to be in someones army, they do awful things to save there own life. Christ said it is better to tie a large rock around your neck and jump into the sea than to cause a child to stumble. Girls are kidnapped, raped and killed. I'd like to think I would intervene, perhaps not be successful, perhaps yes, however I doubt it would keep me up very long at night. if I saved a child. etc. I'm not Calvinist, I don't believe a persons life is predetermined. Why would Christ say we should not lead children astray and cause them to stumble if they are saved or lost before they are born. What's the difference? "Kill them all and let God sort them out" someone I knew used to say.
So some don't believe Police or soldiers should kill? I think seventh day Adventists believe this and I respect them for it. there are other ways to serve in the military.
So we can have faith in God... staying safe and perfectly healthy our entire life unharmed. Nah. We make our own choices.
'Happy is the man who condemns not himself in the things which he allows.'

I’m not a Calvinist either but I do know that life death and evil are in the hands of God.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Introduction:

It is very odd, and I am almost should not have to say it because it’s obvious, but apparently some Christians are under the false assumptions that “murder” and “kill” are not saying the same thing entirely. I have never heard of such a crazy thing before, and I am going to just lay out some simple points that you should know (if you don’t know basic English or the Bible).​

While I am not saying that the killing by God’s people in the Old Testament under God’s command is murder, my point is that murder at the heart involves some form of killing or taking another life (with some added details). Meaning murder is unlawful killing which usually (not always) has some kind of malice attached. But if you are still in doubt, lets establish by Scripture how the word “kill” can mean “murder.”

Now, how would the young rich ruler know of these commands? By the Torah. Obviously Jesus at the beginning of Jesus’ reply, He was referring to a few of the Ten Commandments. Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother (Which are all a part of the Ten Commandments). Jesus then adds in from another part of the Torah to love your neighbor, as well. Obviously the young rich ruler would have been familiar with these commands from the Torah that we can read in our Bible today.

The word “murder” even appears 4 times in the Old Testament within the King James Bible.
So what does “murder” mean in relation to the command that says, “Thou shalt not kill” in Exodus 20:13? Was Jesus referring to a Torah command in the Old Testament that we did not get to read? No. This is because the command “Thou shalt not kill” in Exodus 20:13 is the same command that Jesus stated as “Thou shalt do no murder” in Matthew 19:18.

So while there is a difference between the killing (or taking of life) that God commanded to bring about justice in the Old Testament vs. murder, we have to understand that murder is also killing at it’s very core or heart but the difference is that murder is unlawful killing outside of God’s commands and it usually involves malice or ungodly hatred in many cases.

Murder is always killing, but killing is not always murder...also depends on how the words harag or ratzakh are used and in what context...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So whats your argument here, that self defense is murder?

If you were to read all of my OP or post #1, I said,

“While I am not saying that the killing by God’s people in the Old Testament under God’s command is murder, my point is that murder at the heart involves some form of killing or taking another life (with some added details). Meaning murder is unlawful killing which usually (not always) has some kind of malice attached. But if you are still in doubt, lets establish by Scripture how the word “kill” can mean “murder.” ~ Bible Highlighter - post #1.​

So this does mean that I think there is a form of killing that falls outside of murder (obviously). My point is that there are believers who strangely think that the command in Exodus 20:13 is not referring to murder and there other believers who oddly think that Exodus 20:13 is mistranslated in the King James Bible and should say murder and not kill (as if to suggest that murder is not a form of killing or to suggest that killing was not in context to unlawful killing of one’s neighbor). I disagree with both of the views expressed by these believers.

As for self defense:

Well, I believe in the Old Testament, an Israelite could employ self defense whereby one could render an eye for an eye, etc.; But I believe these things have changed when Jesus came and He taught us a new and higher way of loving others (with His New Covenant teachings, of which we read about in the gospel of Matthew, etc.). To learn more of this teaching in Scripture, check out this CF thread here:

Nonresistance as Taught in the New Testament is Moral and Good.

The old testament (Numbers 35) also set apart cities as safe havens in the event of accidentally killing someone so that people wouldn't take vengeance on the person who accidentally killed someone they didn't hate

I was not born again yesterday. I am very familiar for a long time about the Israelite who accidentally killed their neighbor could escape into cities of refuge. I already stated in this thread that I am not in disagreement with that in post #7.

Not to mention, it doesn't even always involve killing as Jesus taught;

Matthew 5

The issue is the hate, malice, and not valuing other people's lives.

Again, not in disagreement with this truth. I already stated this NT teaching by pointing out 1 John 3:15 in post #6.