The word “murder” means “kill” in the King James Bible (Bible Study)

[Bible Highlighter]

This thread was dead from the beginning because everybody knows that killing and murder don't mean the same thing in any bible.

But murder is at the heart…. “To kill or to take life.” Yes, there is a distinction between:

(a) Killing in general (not murder) whereby God commanded the Israelites to wipe out certain nations or in punishing (killing) those who break certain Laws within the Law of Moses,

vs.
​

(b) Murder.​

Murder is unlawful killing that usually (not always) involves some kind of malice. Murder (Killing) is taking life without God’s say so. The Exodus 20:13 command is referring to murder and it is not a mistranslation that the King James Bible translates it as, “Thou shalt not kill” because murder at the heart is killing. Before you seemed to disagree with me on this point in another thread. You brought up the Scripture’s mention on accidental manslaughter whereby the Israelite could escape to a city of refuge. But I don’t believe the Exodus 20:13 command, “Thou shalt not kill” is in view of that because accidental manslaughter is not something you can choose to obey as a command in regards to Exodus 20:13 because it is an accident. You cannot choose always to avoid in having an accident. Nor do we intend for accidents to happen. That’s what was illogical about your argument before in the other thread.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That's fine by me, I never wanted to discuss works salvation to begin with.

Well, that’s a false accusation, friend. But I forgive you. For your information: I don’t believe in Works Salvation (i.e. Works ALONE Salvationism) which implies a person not being saved by God’s grace. In reality: I believe Christians are initially and foundationally saved by God’s grace. I believe after we are saved by God’s grace, we must obey the Lord in the Sanctification Process as a part of salvation (otherwise we are justifying sin and evil - of which God cannot agree with because He is holy and righteous). God cannot agree with a believer’s mindset in setting out to sin and reward them with eternal life. God is good and He does not reward those who do evil. This is basic morality 101. You know the good guys because they do good and the bad guys because they do evil.

Just read 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 a few more times by asking God for the meaning, my friend.

But out of curiosity what question did I make up?

See your Post #94. You created a question whereby it would erroneously defend the gross belief in many churches today that believes in a grievous sin and still be saved type belief.

I gave you verses showing you the reason why Christ died for us in that it was to lead us unto a life of holiness and not a life of justifying sin or evil (See: Ephesians 5:25-27). For Titus 2:11-12 says God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world. By what you told me so far: Your version of grace does not really teach that because one can also commit unrepentant sins that lead to death and still be saved all because one has a belief alone on Jesus. But even the demons believe and tremble.

Anyways, I provided another more relevant thread if you wanted to continue this discussion (So as not to disrupt this thread).

Prove your case biblically that believers can willfully sin and still be saved while doing so.

May God’s love shine upon you (even if we disagree strongly on God’s Word).

 

[Bob_1000]

But murder is at the heart…. “To kill or to take life.” Yes, there is a distinction between:

(a) Killing in general (not murder) whereby God commanded the Israelites to wipe out certain nations or in punishing (killing) those who break certain Laws within the Law of Moses,

vs.
​

(b) Murder.​

Murder is unlawful killing that usually (not always) involves some kind of malice. Murder (Killing) is taking life without God’s say so. The Exodus 20:13 command is referring to murder and it is not a mistranslation that the King James Bible translates it as, “Thou shalt not kill” because murder at the heart is killing. Before you seemed to disagree with me on this point in another thread. You brought up the Scripture’s mention on accidental manslaughter whereby the Israelite could escape to a city of refuge. But I don’t believe the Exodus 20:13 command, “Thou shalt not kill” is in view of that because accidental manslaughter is not something you can choose to obey as a command in regards to Exodus 20:13 because it is an accident. You cannot choose always to avoid in having an accident. Nor do we intend for accidents to happen. That’s what was illogical about your argument before in the other thread.

If Involuntary Manslaughter wasn't breaking "Thou shalt not kill" then the avenger of blood would have absolutely no legal right to kill the killer and the killer would not have remain in the city of refuge until the high priest died. Case closed.

In your view of murder = killing, if one of the children of Israel got drunk out of his mind and caused his neighbor to die because his judgement was impaired then that person is blameless because he didn't premeditate or plan the killing.... That is absurd, the guy broke "thou shalt not kill" and he would be punished for it.

All you're doing is changing the meaning of words because in one place God says "thou shalt not kill" and in another place he commands his people to kill. Your CHANGING the meaning of words because you don't understand that the commandments are rules governing how an individual is to relate to other individuals and there are whole other set of rules that pertain to legally killing someone such as the avenger of blood and going to war.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If Involuntary Manslaughter wasn't breaking "Thou shalt not kill" then the avenger of blood would have absolutely no legal right to kill the killer and the killer would not have remain in the city of refuge until the high priest died. Case closed.

In regards to accidental manslaughter:

Well, on appearances (to others) it would be as if that person broke the Exodus 20:13 command but we know that they did not break it because they were given a way of escape to go to a city of refuge. For the demand for breaking the Exodus 20:13 command is death and it did not involve going to a city of refuge.

“And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death.” (Leviticus 24:17).

Only accidental manslaughter is in view of escaping this.

Think.

If a person is commanded by God to do something or not do something then logic dictates that we are given that command whereby our will is involved in order to obey that command. If an axe head accidentally flies off and hits a person’s head and kills the other person, it’s an accident and it was not premeditated murder or killing with intent or with one’s will. So no. Not the same thing here. You are just stretching the truth of things.

In your view of murder = killing, if one of the children of Israel got drunk out of his mind and caused his neighbor to die because his judgement was impaired then that person is blameless because he didn't premeditate or plan the killing.... That is absurd, the guy broke "thou shalt not kill" and he would be punished for it.

Was it an honest accident or was there some kind of premeditated desire to kill the other while drunk?

Therein lies the difference.

All you're doing is changing the meaning of words because in one place God says "thou shalt not kill" and in another place he commands his people to kill. Your CHANGING the meaning of words because you don't understand that the commandments are rules governing how an individual is to relate to other individuals and there are whole other set of rules that pertain to legally killing someone such as the avenger of blood and going to war.

No. That is what you are doing, dear sir. You are changing the meaning of the words whereby it renders all logic to be thrown out the door. The word “kill” can refer to two different types of taking life in Scripture and it depends on the context (of which one it is referring to).

For example: I can say that,

"The dog's bark could be heard all the way down the street, He scratched his paws against the bark of tree at the squirrel up in the tree (hoping to get the little guy)."​

As you can see there are two words spelled as "bark" but yet they have two different meanings. These are called homonyms and they do exist in the Bible. Sons of God can refer to either a believer, or angels. It depends on the context. The same is true for the word “kill.” It can refer to either murder or it can refer to taking life that is not murder under God’s command in executing justice or punishment. Both murder and non-murder type killing involves killing or the taking of life at the heart. But murder is different in that it is unlawful killing (usually) done out of malice or hatred. The Exodus 20:13 command is specifically in regards to murder and not accidental manslaughter because the punishments are different.

 

[Faithful777]

Accidental killing is murder when it is neglect....


Exodus 21:28 If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit.
29 But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death.




Israel being sent to kill their enemies, it takes a heartless heart to kill, that is why it was hidden in God from the beginning of harmlessness as Christ, because then we heard, no longer to hate your enemies, but now to love them ( AND) whosoever hates their brother, is a murderer and has no eternal life ( no harmless Christ Spirit in them)..



Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.




Hebrews 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

 

[Davy]

Please keep in mind I am not saying for us to obey all 613 commands of the Torah. I believe the Old Law has ended and we are to follow the commands that come from Jesus and His followers. For Hebrews 7:12 says the law has changed.

You're basically full of it, the Old Testament KJV passage, "Thou shalt not kill", the Hebrew word for "kill" is about homicide (murder), and that is how that Hebrew word is translated in just about all... cases in the Old Testament Books, being about murder.

Murder is NOT the same as killing.

When one kills in self defense, that is NOT murder.

When a soldier kills to defend their country, that is NOT murder.

When a chicken is killed for table, that is NOT murder.

 

[Faithful777]

Luke 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.



John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.


Matthew 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.


Not loving your brother) killing your enemies) is murder


Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.


Hebrews 12:14
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:


Matthew 10:16
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Philippians 2:15
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

Hebrews 7:26
For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You're basically full of it, the Old Testament KJV passage, "Thou shalt not kill", the Hebrew word for "kill" is about homicide (murder), and that is how that Hebrew word is translated in just about all... cases in the Old Testament Books, being about murder.

Murder is NOT the same as killing.

When one kills in self defense, that is NOT murder.

When a soldier kills to defend their country, that is NOT murder.

When a chicken is killed for table, that is NOT murder.

It does not appear you read all of my OP or understood it, friend. I believe there is a difference between murder and God telling His people to take the lives of His enemies in the OT. My point was to address some odd beliefs by Christians that I recently heard. One Christian said that Exodus 20:13 command is not referring to murder but to kill. They are wrong. “Thou shalt not kill” is in reference to murder. Others (who are anti-KJV Only) said that the word “kill” in Exodus is mistranslated in Exodus 20:13. They are also mistaken.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You're basically full of it, the Old Testament KJV passage, "Thou shalt not kill", the Hebrew word for "kill" is about homicide (murder), and that is how that Hebrew word is translated in just about all... cases in the Old Testament Books, being about murder.

Murder is NOT the same as killing.

When one kills in self defense, that is NOT murder.

When a soldier kills to defend their country, that is NOT murder.

When a chicken is killed for table, that is NOT murder.

Oh, and by the way….

 

[Davy]

It does not appear you read all of my OP or understood it, friend. I believe there is a difference between murder and God telling His people to take the lives of His enemies in the OT. My point was to address some odd beliefs by Christians that I recently heard. One Christian said that Exodus 20:13 command is not referring to murder but to kill. They are wrong. “Thou shalt not kill” is in reference to murder. Others (who are anti-KJV Only) said that the word “kill” in Exodus is mistranslated in Exodus 20:13. They are also mistaken.

All I had to read was what you said in your OP at the first...

You said:
"It is very odd, and I am almost should not have to say it because it’s obvious, but apparently some Christians are under the false assumptions that “murder” and “kill” are not saying the same thing entirely."

If you had left out that negative "not", then I would agree, because killing and murder are NOT the same thing.

 

[Davy]

Oh, and by the way….

You too!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

All I had to read was what you said in your OP at the first...

You said:
"It is very odd, and I am almost should not have to say it because it’s obvious, but apparently some Christians are under the false assumptions that “murder” and “kill” are not saying the same thing entirely."

If you had left out that negative "not", then I would agree, because killing and murder are NOT the same thing.

My initial words are true. But if you read all of what I wrote in my OP, you would not jump to conclusions, my friend.

As I said before, my words stood initially against certain Christians thinking the wrong way on Exodus 20:13 and it was not saying how murder and killing to execute justice are not different things. I was referring to those who thought that the Exodus 20:13 command in a wrong way.

Usually people are quick to judge (without hearing out the whole of what a person says), and they have a tendency to just read the first few lines of what a person writes and they do not have patience to read all of what they write and thus… they jump to the wrong conclusions. I believe Christians even do this with the apostle Paul. Some Christians (not all) think Ephesians 2:8-9 is a free for all license to sin, and they do not read or accept all of what Paul said like 1 Timothy 6:3-4 or 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You too!

Thank you. May God bless you.