The WMDs Are In Syria

[Doctrine1st]

Nope.

• We exagerated the dangers toward us with Iraq; the same with Vietnam.
• We underestimated or ignored the political forces within Iraq; the same as Vietnam.
• We didn't consider the power of nationalism in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.
• We never had full and frank disscussions to garner universal American support before participation in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.
• We either possessed a profound ignorance or never took in consideration the history, culture, and politics of the people of our opponent in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.
• We failed to win the hearts and minds those caught in the middle in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.
• We allowed political appointees, rather than the military, to set the tone and conduct the war in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.
• We are overextending our military in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.
• We are stuck in a occupation were we are damned if we pull out, and damned if we stay in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.

The similarites are profound.

 

[k]

Which would be entirely appropriate.

It is always pertinent to bring up news of past conflicts, especially if it shows more information on what was happening in the first place.

Why is this supposed to be a witty statement that people slap you on the back for? Sounds more like a statement of fact that will probably come true.

The point was that political pride prevents people from seeking the humility necessary to admit the outside possibility that maybe, just maybe, the Bush admin lied to justify invading Iraq.

IOW, some Bush supporters are so desperate for justification of the invasion that they will spend the rest of their lives ignoring the obvious and clinging onto the tiniest slivers of dust-filled hope that their support for the admin was the cool thing to do.

Common sense proved to the world the Bush admin knew Iraq did not have WMDs. The US does not send in 100,000 ground troops on a nation that actuall possesses WMDs. That is the whole reason why we had that little tiff commonly known as the Cold War.

 

[k]

Come on, it was pretty funny. I think he was eluding that they'll be reporting they were found when they'll be finding stuff from 1991.

Thanks. Exactly, I remember a few weeks back Fox News had the lights flashing and drums beating talkin' 'bout, "WMDs have been found in Iraq!" When it was really decrepit materials from before 1991. Of course, FN is the Bush admin pom pom girl...

 

[k]

• We exagerated the dangers toward us with Iraq; the same with Vietnam.
• We underestimated or ignored the political forces within Iraq; the same as Vietnam.
• We didn't consider the power of nationalism in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.
• We never had full and frank disscussions to garner universal American support before participation in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.
• We either possessed a profound ignorance or never took in consideration the history, culture, and politics of the people of our opponent in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.
• We failed to win the hearts and minds those caught in the middle in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.
• We allowed political appointees, rather than the military, to set the tone and conduct the war in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.
• We are overextending our military in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.
• We are stuck in a occupation were we are damned if we pull out, and damned if we stay in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.

The similarites are profound.

Someone posted a bit of a news article from Vietnam discussing how elated and encouraged military leaders were by the voter turn out of the S. Vietnemese. It was over 30 years old and discussing a place thousands of miles from Iraq but one could have easily changed the date of the piece and replaced the word "Vietnam" with "Iraq" and nobody could tell the difference.

Aha! Found it.

U.S. Encouraged by Vietnam Vote :
Officials Cite 83% Turnout Despite Vietcong Terror

by Peter Grose, Special to the New York Times (9/4/1967: p. 2)
WASHINGTON, Sept. 3-- United States officials were surprised and heartened today at the size of turnout in South Vietnam's presidential election despite a Vietcong terrorist campaign to disrupt the voting.
According to reports from Saigon, 83 per cent of the 5.85 million registered voters cast their ballots yesterday. Many of them risked reprisals threatened by the Vietcong. The size of the popular vote and the inability of the Vietcong to destroy the election machinery were the two salient facts in a preliminary assessment of the nation election based on the incomplete returns reaching here.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/1/31/2335/87390

Sounds like CNN and Fox News of not too long ago.

 

[ElvisFan42]

Thanks. Exactly, I remember a few weeks back Fox News had the lights flashing and drums beating talkin' 'bout, "WMDs have been found in Iraq!" When it was really decrepit materials from before 1991. Of course, FN is the Bush admin pom pom girl...

No, Fox is fair and balanced, everyone else is way left!

 

[k]

No, Fox is fair and balanced, everyone else is way left!

Oh, that's right! When they were showing a world map where N. Korea was bombing Chicago they were just.....

 

[nvxplorer]

No, Fox is fair and balanced, everyone else is way left!

More descriptively, everyone else is the Atheistic Liberal News Media™.

 

[Sleeker]

• We exagerated the dangers toward us with Iraq; the same with Vietnam.

How did we exaggerate the dangers with Vietnam? Which dangers did the government purposely exaggerate?

We underestimated or ignored the political forces within Iraq; the same as Vietnam.

"Political" forces refers to what?

We didn't consider the power of nationalism in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.

Isn't what's going on in Iraq caused by sectarianism, not nationalism? The Shiites (speaking in overgeneralizations) think their group is the best, and the Sunnis that their group is the best. They're not thinking that their country is the best.

We never had full and frank disscussions to garner universal American support before participation in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.

Why do we need universal support? Did we have universal support for all of our wars? American Revolution: No. War of 1812: No. Civil War: There wasn't popular support until after the first battles were fought. Spanish-American War: Yes. WWI: Popular support was gained during the war. WWII: Yes. Korean War: I don't think it was, but I'm not sure. Vietnam War: No.

So I guess you can add that to a list of similarities, but since there are so many other wars that fit the bill, I don't see the relevance.

We either possessed a profound ignorance or never took in consideration the history, culture, and politics of the people of our opponent in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.

We took them into consideration in Iraq. We just didn't prepare enough.

We failed to win the hearts and minds those caught in the middle in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.

You would be referring to which poll now?

We allowed political appointees, rather than the military, to set the tone and conduct the war in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.

True.

We are overextending our military in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.

I don't think so. More would help, but I don't think we're "overextended."

We are stuck in a occupation were we are damned if we pull out, and damned if we stay in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.

True.

 

[64kSim]

More descriptively, everyone else is the Atheistic Liberal News Media™.

I guess you could label and demonize the leftist media if they do did not give Bush and co. enough camera time to make a large portion of Americans believe that WMD exisit!

 

[nvxplorer]

I guess you could label and demonize the leftist media if they do did not give Bush and co. enough camera time to make a large portion of Americans believe that WMD exisit!

My comment was sarcasm. See any of clirus' OPs to get the joke.

 

[nvxplorer]

How did we exaggerate the dangers with Vietnam? Which dangers did the government purposely exaggerate?

Communism. Vietnam fell to the communists, and now they are a trade partner.

 

[ONEGod]

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27th July 2006, 01:08 PM
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Quote
Originally Posted by: ONEGod
Perhaps you haven't read of the WMD convoy that left Syria that was going to decapitate the government of Jordan and exterminate a great many people ? Why would Saddam send many of his top jet flyers to other nations during the war,nations that do not intend to return them ? DESPERATE MEASURES BY A DESPERATE MAN.






Unlike Jets a biological WMD can't simply be blown up on the runway by American missiles and bombs. It would also be VERY helpful if you wanted to say REPEL AN INVASION.

If the man was truly desperate, why wouldn’t he have used every means at his disposal to stay in power?

ONEGod:
Same reasonthe Germans has poison gas and didn'tuse it in WWII,they didn't like the idea of the likely response in kind
=========================

#61
Yesterday, 04:47 PM
Doctrine1st
Official nitwit

We exagerated the dangers toward us with Iraq; the same with Vietnam.

[ONEGod:
Iraq brokethe truct of the first gulf war with countless violant violations and refuse over a dozen U.N.resolutions.Saddam should never have invited us over by invading KuWait or by breaking the truce.]

We underestimated or ignored the political forces within Iraq; the same as Vietnam.

[ONEGod:
We underestimated the enemy having political allies in our midst!]

We didn't consider the power of nationalism in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.
We never had full and frank disscussions to garner universal American support before participation in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.

[ONEGod:
You were far more sheltered/insulated from the media than i was obviously !]

We either possessed a profound ignorance or never took in consideration the history, culture, and politics of the people of our opponent in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.

[ONEGod:
We underestimated the enemy having political allies in our midst!]

We failed to win the hearts and minds those caught in the middle in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.

[ONEGod:
Your unsubstantieted opinion. Our soldiers have expressed much the other.]

We allowed political appointees, rather than the military, to set the tone and conduct the war in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.

[ONEGod:
The stench of political correctness/politics has much tainted both Wars,to our soldiers/nations detriment,no doubt there !]

We are overextending our military in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.

[ONEGod:
Giap of N.Vietnam said the American military couldn't be beat onthe battlefield.Hardly a case for overextension. Wishfull p.c. thinking. slick did cut the military subatantially though didn't he ? and now we are politically advised of how weak 'we'must be. More p.c. politics]

We are stuck in a occupation were we are damned if we pull out, and damned if we stay in Iraq; the same as Vietnam.
The similarites are profound.!

ONEGod:
Show me the similiarities please ! Real similiarities

America is now a trade partner with Vietnam because the great hero of North Vietnam of the Vietnam war, John sKerry, aided them after the war as well as during the war.

 

[variant]

If the man was truly desperate, why wouldn’t he have used every means at his disposal to stay in power?

Same reasonthe Germans has poison gas and didn'tuse it in WWII,they didn't like the idea of the likely response in kind

Well, um, ok (one wonders what these weapons are good for then).

I mean you are pitching the idea that chemical weapons being used against his forces in kind by the Americans would have chastened a "desperate man", but he was so desperate that he had to export his entire arsenal (massive as it was) to Syria???

I assume Saddam was so sure we would use chemical weapons and he just KNEW we had brought along some of our own to use IN KIND. THAT must have been why he didn't release them during an imminent invasion in which he was "desperate".

The lengths some people will rationalize in order to avoid simply admitting that they were wrong.

 

[ONEGod]

Saddam used WMD's against Iran, he didn't dare use them on us. He would be room temperate and pushing up daisys the hard way if he had.
The things that can be learned of history.....

 

[Sleeker]

Communism. Vietnam fell to the communists, and now they are a trade partner.

It was based on the Domino Theory.

Well, um, ok (one wonders what these weapons are good for then).

Deterrents. If you have WMD's (nuclear in modern times), then people can't use WMD's on you. Although few countries have used WMD's, many still aren't willing to risk what others will do, so they keep them as deterrents.

 

[variant]

Deterrents. If you have WMD's (nuclear in modern times), then people can't use WMD's on you. Although few countries have used WMD's, many still aren't willing to risk what others will do, so they keep them as deterrents.

Not really addressing my point of what a desperate dictator would do if he had WMD's and was invaded.

(ship them all to Syria doesn’t seem to top the list)

 

[CommonCents]

Saddam used WMD's against Iran, he didn't dare use them on us. He would be room temperate and pushing up daisys the hard way if he had.
The things that can be learned of history.....

As opposed to what would happen to him if he were captured? Why would he have reason to not use weapons if he had them? He was dead if he lost either way.

 

[burrow_owl]

Deterrents. If you have WMD's (nuclear in modern times), then people can't use WMD's on you.

Keeping them secret is an awfully ineffective deterrent.

 

[CommonCents]

Not really addressing my point of what a desperate dictator would do if he had WMD's and was invaded.

(ship them all to Syria doesn’t seem to top the list)

I don't understand this either since it seems that he was willing to risk being ousted from power for the weapons but as soon as war starts he ships the very weapons he was willing to go to war to keep? Very odd.

 

[ACougar]

Before I comment I would like to point out that both sides have it tough when it comes to proof.

That's because there is no proof that Syria aquired Iraqs supposed WMD. Is it possible Sadam shipped his WMD to Syria? Yes. Is it likely that Syria has some WMD? Yes. Do we have any proof? No, it's all based on conjecture and unconfirmed sources who are paid to tell us stories which are sometimes true and sometimes false.