The weaknesses of the China ideology

[Estrid]

I think this is the TRUE difference between East and West... Here in the West, countries really do have friends.

It would (and does) appear sad to a Westerner to know that there are countries not willing to rise to this level.

Nah. That is true bigotry.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Nah. That is true bigotry.

Call it what you will, but the United States and other Western countries do indeed have friends.

 

[Estrid]

Call it what you will, but the United States and other Western countries do indeed have friends.

Calling it what it is.

"Westerners" like everyone else, change
partners.

But feel wonderful with a fantasy of superiority.

 

[BillyLi]

Hi,

I’m new to the forums, and I notice some predictable paths this board might be taking when they post their views towards China, and I feel like I have to get this out of my chest. It has been said that the Chinese is sinful because it is prideful. And while I agree pride is sinful, I don’t know if it’s exclusive to one race over the other. White worship is not biblical and is practiced in many parts of Asia that you guys seem to favor, and that is narcissistic and arrogant. And would claiming one non-white country prideful generalizing and considered dangerous, unless you are backing up the Old Testament that ethnic groups are more sinful than others and deserve to be destroyed whether by foreign governments or God himself. Did God say to hate his creation more than any other race? I would hope not. All have sinned and are not better than anyone else.

I say don’t fall for the political propaganda machine in the West even if these political party members align with your religious views. China never claimed to be more prideful than others. If China was more prideful, would that excuse all the interracial marriages in favor of white males that leave Asian males unbiblically marriage-less and all the racist remarks they’ve endured online cleared by God in heaven? Are not the racism they’ve endured make those that make those racist remarks considered just as prideful, if not more? We got the statistics. I would hope we would show some self-control. So essentially, would these people that are anti-China or Asian think they’ll be clear of sin when they get to heaven? I would hope not, otherwise, this is a God not worthy of my praise. It is not considered holy.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Hi,

I’m new to the forums, and I notice some predictable paths this board might be taking when they post their views towards China, and I feel like I have to get this out of my chest. It has been said that the Chinese is sinful because it is prideful. And while I agree pride is sinful, I don’t know if it’s exclusive to one race over the other. White worship is not biblical and is practiced in many parts of Asia that you guys seem to favor, and that is narcissistic and arrogant. And would claiming one non-white country prideful generalizing and considered dangerous, unless you are backing up the Old Testament that ethnic groups are more sinful than others and deserve to be destroyed whether by foreign governments or God himself. Did God say to hate his creation more than any other race? I would hope not. All have sinned and are not better than anyone else.

I say don’t fall for the political propaganda machine in the West even if these political party members align with your religious views. China never claimed to be more prideful than others. If China was more prideful, would that excuse all the interracial marriages in favor of white males that leave Asian males unbiblically marriage-less and all the racist remarks they’ve endured online cleared by God in heaven? Are not the racism they’ve endured make those that make those racist remarks considered just as prideful, if not more? We got the statistics. I would hope we would show some self-control. So essentially, would these people that are anti-China or Asian think they’ll be clear of sin when they get to heaven? I would hope not, otherwise, this is a God not worthy of my praise. It is not considered holy.

Just know that when we talk about China, we're talking about the Chinese government specifically... Not Asians or Chinese people.

 

[FireDragon76]

The Pandemic may have started in China but due to a very effective shut down the country has not been majorly impacted by it. Indeed the economy is booming. China has more and more money to spend on military hardware and space expeditions. Its reputation is soaring and if it has not already become so, people expect that China will soon have the largest economy in the world.

But will China ever be a great global power like Spain, Britain or indeed the USA were/are in their heyday?

There are 3 main weaknesses to Chinas bid to be a global number one and they are mainly to do with its ideological outlook.

1) The Chinese have a weak religious base. The church while large in numbers is small relative to the population and so it lacks the kind of global appeal and impact that the Catholic Jesuits, British Anglicans, and American Evangelicals were able to project far beyond their borders. People are intrigued with Chinese culture and history but the religious passion for what China is is simply not there. Indeed China is seen not as a city on a hill but rather as a persecutor by both the Christian and Muslim worlds. It appears to have learned nothing from the fall of the Soviet Union whose moral legitimacy was undermined by its lack of respect for freedom of religion.

There are people in the US, for instance, that are Sinophiles, though it may not be immediately obvious to those outside the country. In addition, the Chinese cultural sphere extends outward to most of East Asia. Meaning you can't make an in depth study of the culture of Korea, Japan, or Vietnam and not be somewhat familiar with the history and culture of China. China is as influential in East Asia as the Roman empire was in Europe, contributing architecture, pottery, writing, vocabulary, civic ethics and religion to all those aformentioned countries.

Secondly, modern China is not a country defined particularly by its religious heritage. It's a secular state that merely tolerates some expression of religion, though certain forms of traditional religion are coming back in popularity and support after several decades of repression during the Cultural Revolution.

3) China is in practice quite racist in its outlook. It is a pure China first outlook.

Certainly no more than America, and perhaps less so.

The Americas became global by having the nations flock to them.

What nonsense. Pure nonsense. Clearly you've confused propaganda with actual history.

The British and Spanish by emigrating to the nations and shaping their societies. But China is an island unto itself.

It's more inward looking but it's model of civilization has always tended to be attractional rather than missionary.

but its lack of an exportable ideology,

Confucianism and legalism are already viable alternatives to many worldviews that are dying in the west. They've also been exported to plenty of non-Chinese countries in Asia throughout Chinese history. So I very much don't accept your conclusions on this point.

 

[only a sojourner]

The Chinese political system will continue to have little appeal to Western countries. However it's dynamic economic growth, including it's dramatic rebound from the Corona Virus will have an appeal to no Western countries many of which have authoritarian tendencies. Moreover many of these countries are becoming dependent economically on China. Many now expect China's GDP to overtake the US which will exert an influence even on Western countries.

The Trump administration and current antidemocratic tendencies in the Republican Party have sullied America's reputation. The rapid collapse of Afghanistan and America's abandonment will cause many to question America's trustworthiness as an ally. China's influence may not fully overtake that of the US but I believe it will be formidable.

 

[only a sojourner]

In the second sentence above I meant to say, "However it's dynamic economic growth, also it's dramatic rebound from the Corona Virus will have an appeal to non-western countries many of which have authoritarian tendencies.

 

[Estrid]

The Chinese political system will continue to have little appeal to Western countries. However it's dynamic economic growth, including it's dramatic rebound from the Corona Virus will have an appeal to no Western countries many of which have authoritarian tendencies. Moreover many of these countries are becoming dependent economically on China. Many now expect China's GDP to overtake the US which will exert an influence even on Western countries.

The Trump administration and current antidemocratic tendencies in the Republican Party have sullied America's reputation. The rapid collapse of Afghanistan and America's abandonment will cause many to question America's trustworthiness as an ally. China's influence may not fully overtake that of the US but I believe it will be formidable.

A lot of people saw all along the end in Afghanistan being a replay of
Vietnam.

Except the Afghans won't get friendly, later.

We see erratic policies, american religion and "diversity" as great weakness.

China is not going to almost catch up, then stop short.

 

[Estrid]

There are people in the US, for instance, that are Sinophiles, though it may not be immediately obvious to those outside the country. In addition, the Chinese cultural sphere extends outward to most of East Asia. Meaning you can't make an in depth study of the culture of Korea, Japan, or Vietnam and not be somewhat familiar with the history and culture of China. China is as influential in East Asia as the Roman empire was in Europe, contributing architecture, pottery, writing, vocabulary, civic ethics and religion to all those aformentioned countries.

Secondly, modern China is not a country defined particularly by its religious heritage. It's a secular state that merely tolerates some expression of religion, though certain forms of traditional religion are coming back in popularity and support after several decades of repression during the Cultural Revolution.



Certainly no more than America, and perhaps less so.



What nonsense. Pure nonsense. Clearly you've confused propaganda with actual history.



It's more inward looking but it's model of civilization has always tended to be attractional rather than missionary.



Confucianism and legalism are already viable alternatives to many worldviews that are dying in the west. They've also been exported to plenty of non-Chinese countries in Asia throughout Chinese history. So I very much don't accept your conclusions on this point.

Legalism?

 

[Semper-Fi]

We Are Perilously Close to a Post-American World
We Are Perilously Close to a Post-American World
-

If You Live in Taiwan, Time to Worry
If You Live in Taiwan, Time to Worry

 

[mindlight]

Hi,

I’m new to the forums, and I notice some predictable paths this board might be taking when they post their views towards China, and I feel like I have to get this out of my chest. It has been said that the Chinese is sinful because it is prideful. And while I agree pride is sinful, I don’t know if it’s exclusive to one race over the other. White worship is not biblical and is practiced in many parts of Asia that you guys seem to favor, and that is narcissistic and arrogant. And would claiming one non-white country prideful generalizing and considered dangerous, unless you are backing up the Old Testament that ethnic groups are more sinful than others and deserve to be destroyed whether by foreign governments or God himself. Did God say to hate his creation more than any other race? I would hope not. All have sinned and are not better than anyone else.

I say don’t fall for the political propaganda machine in the West even if these political party members align with your religious views. China never claimed to be more prideful than others. If China was more prideful, would that excuse all the interracial marriages in favor of white males that leave Asian males unbiblically marriage-less and all the racist remarks they’ve endured online cleared by God in heaven? Are not the racism they’ve endured make those that make those racist remarks considered just as prideful, if not more? We got the statistics. I would hope we would show some self-control. So essentially, would these people that are anti-China or Asian think they’ll be clear of sin when they get to heaven? I would hope not, otherwise, this is a God not worthy of my praise. It is not considered holy.

I would distinguish the Chinese state from its people though of course, the Communist party believes they represent them. There are about a hundred million Christians in China. Also, there are Chinese emigrants all around the world now, many of them more pro-Western than for the current Chinese regime. So this thread is not a personal attack on Chinese men and a bid to get their women to marry white Westerners it is a criticism of state policies and the weaknesses of the current governing ideology. I would regard that ideology as quite racist while the Western approach is more inclusive.

 

[mindlight]

There are people in the US, for instance, that are Sinophiles, though it may not be immediately obvious to those outside the country. In addition, the Chinese cultural sphere extends outward to most of East Asia. Meaning you can't make an in depth study of the culture of Korea, Japan, or Vietnam and not be somewhat familiar with the history and culture of China. China is as influential in East Asia as the Roman empire was in Europe, contributing architecture, pottery, writing, vocabulary, civic ethics and religion to all those aformentioned countries.

Secondly, modern China is not a country defined particularly by its religious heritage. It's a secular state that merely tolerates some expression of religion, though certain forms of traditional religion are coming back in popularity and support after several decades of repression during the Cultural Revolution.

China has a considerable cultural weight and historical footprint on the whole of East Asia - TRUE. Some of that is good and some highly negative. There are now a hundred million Christians in China but the state ideology criticized here is firmly atheistic. That is a weakness as why should people die for a godless creed?

Certainly no more than America, and perhaps less so.

America is just withdrawing from engagements in countries where it spent trillions trying to help the local populations. China invests and expects a return that benefits the Chinese people directly. There is no interracial benevolence about the Chinese project.

What nonsense. Pure nonsense. Clearly you've confused propaganda with actual history.

America has been historically a melting pot of different races and cultures. Black Africans were forcibly transported, others came from all over the world believing the USA to be a City on a Hill where they could have a great new life. This is very different from the story of China. Having conquered its current territories and after a brief flirtation with imperialism in the Philippines for example, America was dragged out of its isolationism and self-sufficiency by international cries for help. Marshall Aid was an act of benevolence not remotely glimpsed in our experience of China which is more self-serving.

It's more inward looking but it's model of civilization has always tended to be attractional rather than missionary.

Nah, one of the reasons for the Opium wars was Chinas near-complete isolationism and indifference to the outside world. There was a racist rejection of anything foreign. The British were able to circumvent that by giving them drugs in exchange for silver, not our finest hour but how else could trade have happened with such a racist, inward, and isolationist culture. Communists today would actually agree there was much wrong with the Manchu dynasty and it made China weak. It is that historical experience of weakness and invasion by Europeans and Japanese that still drives a lot of China's foreign policy instincts. They seek their own strength and advantage at every stage in their advancement into global markets.

Confucianism and legalism are already viable alternatives to many worldviews that are dying in the west. They've also been exported to plenty of non-Chinese countries in Asia throughout Chinese history. So I very much don't accept your conclusions on this point.

Christianity and indeed Islam have never been stronger and the global discussion is between these two religions. Confucianism, Communism, and Legalism are empty sideshows in the global debate. Until China joins itself to one of these major religions it will not have global influence ideologically.

 

[mindlight]

The Chinese political system will continue to have little appeal to Western countries. However it's dynamic economic growth, including it's dramatic rebound from the Corona Virus will have an appeal to no Western countries many of which have authoritarian tendencies. Moreover many of these countries are becoming dependent economically on China. Many now expect China's GDP to overtake the US which will exert an influence even on Western countries.

The Trump administration and current antidemocratic tendencies in the Republican Party have sullied America's reputation. The rapid collapse of Afghanistan and America's abandonment will cause many to question America's trustworthiness as an ally. China's influence may not fully overtake that of the US but I believe it will be formidable.

Agreed the recent election debacle and the deceit about stolen elections have done America's reputation no good. Also, the Afghanistan project unlike with South Korea or Germany despite the benevolent things achieved in that country never gained the core consent of the local population to the transformative efforts engaged in. Secular politicians led this nation-building and naively did not reckon with the overwhelmingly corrosive effects of Islam on their project. You cannot build a true democracy in a Muslim country that respects minorities and protects freedom of religion. Islam is the issue, not Afghan warlords here. Meanwhile, China has advanced into that vacuum left in hearts and minds by the retreat or defeat of America from these spaces. This is not something that Asian countries necessarily want, however. Vietnam for example trades heavily with China but looks to the West for its security interests. China is alone but increasingly powerful. It is far scarier than Germany was in the build-up to the Nazi era because its global and historical weight is far greater.

 

[mindlight]

A lot of people saw all along the end in Afghanistan being a replay of
Vietnam.

Except the Afghans won't get friendly, later.

We see erratic policies, american religion and "diversity" as great weakness.

China is not going to almost catch up, then stop short.

Chinese consistency in their policies is a strength. Their godless ruling classes are a liability for their international appeal and credibility. The big global discussion on a spiritual level is between Islam and Christianity both of which have never been stronger. Until China is permitting the sending out of Chinese Christian missionaries around the world it is not even in the discussion. Afghanistan was a triumph for Islam over a secular policy of nation-building that underestimated the power of that religion in that country. But Islam will not last forever.

Vietnam while a major trading partner with China is now more friendly to the USA than to China.

 

[mindlight]

We Are Perilously Close to a Post-American World
We Are Perilously Close to a Post-American World
-

If You Live in Taiwan, Time to Worry
If You Live in Taiwan, Time to Worry

I found the contrast between Chinese policy against its domestic Muslims and its collaboration with the Taliban quite interesting. They play Real Politik in much the same way that Bismarck once did in Germany. There is little in the way of actual moral values on display here. They kill Muslims domestically because they are potentially destabilizing to the Chinese order of things and contribute little to Chinese innovation and expansionary desires. But they collaborate with them internationally so that they build trade routes, pipelines and undermine American and Indian influence in the region.

Will the West defend Taiwan when the Chinese make their move is the big test of how far they have actually come. They could lose trillions in trade but is the West so dependent on them now that it could not make such a decision to end trade with China by way of sanctions for a Taiwanese invasion. Their military spending is advancing and it is localized to one region of the world while America has a global reach to finance. But they have no friends and are economically vulnerable and exposed. I guess we will just have to watch this space to see how all this develops.