The weaknesses of the China ideology

[mindlight]

The Pandemic may have started in China but due to a very effective shut down the country has not been majorly impacted by it. Indeed the economy is booming. China has more and more money to spend on military hardware and space expeditions. Its reputation is soaring and if it has not already become so, people expect that China will soon have the largest economy in the world.

But will China ever be a great global power like Spain, Britain or indeed the USA were/are in their heyday?

There are 3 main weaknesses to Chinas bid to be a global number one and they are mainly to do with its ideological outlook.

1) The Chinese have a weak religious base. The church while large in numbers is small relative to the population and so it lacks the kind of global appeal and impact that the Catholic Jesuits, British Anglicans, and American Evangelicals were able to project far beyond their borders. People are intrigued with Chinese culture and history but the religious passion for what China is is simply not there. Indeed China is seen not as a city on a hill but rather as a persecutor by both the Christian and Muslim worlds. It appears to have learned nothing from the fall of the Soviet Union whose moral legitimacy was undermined by its lack of respect for freedom of religion.

2) China has no real friends. China is the rich man to whom others pander in hope of reward. But it does not have the kind of alliances, global networks, and bases that the Americans have. Its only alliance is with North Korea which is a liability. People do not trust the Chinese because they cover stuff up and there is a lack of transparency about their society. This pandemic is a perfect example.

3) China is in practice quite racist in its outlook. It is a pure China first outlook. It acts in its own self-interest and considers itself the center of the world. There is none of the charitable giving of American Marshall Aid or the Christian charity and missions of the British Empire or the Jesuits of the Spanish empire. The Americas became global by having the nations flock to them. The British and Spanish by emigrating to the nations and shaping their societies. But China is an island unto itself.

So my theory is that China will be something similar to what the Ottomans were in their heyday. It will be a major regional power and maybe even on paper the strongest power in the world but its lack of an exportable ideology, the lack of trust and friendship shown towards it and its racist inwardness will keep it marginalized from the center of world-power. The USA may become a smaller economy than China but it has friends, it has an outlook many share and as a global force, it has massive advantages. I believe the West can and should win the propaganda war of this new Cold War with China.

What do you think?

 

[CuriousPagan]

This is not to mention ancient and hidden tensions among various ethnic groups.

 

[Tom 1]

The Pandemic may have started in China but due to a very effective shut down the country has not been majorly impacted by it. Indeed the economy is booming. China has more and more money to spend on military hardware and space expeditions. Its reputation is soaring and if it has not already become so, people expect that China will soon have the largest economy in the world.

But will China ever be a great global power like Spain, Britain or indeed the USA were/are in their heyday?

There are 3 main weaknesses to Chinas bid to be a global number one and they are mainly to do with its ideological outlook.

1) The Chinese have a weak religious base. The church while large in numbers is small relative to the population and so it lacks the kind of global appeal and impact that the Catholic Jesuits, British Anglicans, and American Evangelicals were able to project far beyond their borders. People are intrigued with Chinese culture and history but the religious passion for what China is is simply not there. Indeed China is seen not as a city on a hill but rather as a persecutor by both the Christian and Muslim worlds. It appears to have learned nothing from the fall of the Soviet Union whose moral legitimacy was undermined by its lack of respect for freedom of religion.

2) China has no real friends. China is the rich man to whom others pander in hope of reward. But it does not have the kind of alliances, global networks, and bases that the Americans have. Its only alliance is with North Korea which is a liability. People do not trust the Chinese because they cover stuff up and there is a lack of transparency about their society. This pandemic is a perfect example.

3) China is in practice quite racist in its outlook. It is a pure China first outlook. It acts in its own self-interest and considers itself the center of the world. There is none of the charitable giving of American Marshall Aid or the Christian charity and missions of the British Empire or the Jesuits of the Spanish empire. The Americas became global by having the nations flock to them. The British and Spanish by emigrating to the nations and shaping their societies. But China is an island unto itself.

So my theory is that China will be something similar to what the Ottomans were in their heyday. It will be a major regional power and maybe even on paper the strongest power in the world but its lack of an exportable ideology, the lack of trust and friendship shown towards it and its racist inwardness will keep it marginalized from the center of world-power. The USA may become a smaller economy than China but it has friends, it has an outlook many share and as a global force, it has massive advantages. I believe the West can and should win the propaganda war of this new Cold War with China.

What do you think?

They're pairing up with Russia on some major scientific projects, that kind of alliance could become pretty formidable. The Russians have already got US news outlets (and a fair number of US citizens) producing and spreading disinformation on their behalf, so I would say that propaganda war has already been won to a large extent. China has spread its culture and continues to do so, the Han Chinese culture has steadily subsumed numerous others and that process hasn't stopped.
Demographics seem to be their biggest problem, but perhaps that will change too.

 

[LockeeDeck]

The Pandemic may have started in China but due to a very effective shut down the country has not been majorly impacted by it. Indeed the economy is booming. China has more and more money to spend on military hardware and space expeditions. Its reputation is soaring and if it has not already become so, people expect that China will soon have the largest economy in the world.

But will China ever be a great global power like Spain, Britain or indeed the USA were/are in their heyday?

There are 3 main weaknesses to Chinas bid to be a global number one and they are mainly to do with its ideological outlook.

1) The Chinese have a weak religious base. The church while large in numbers is small relative to the population and so it lacks the kind of global appeal and impact that the Catholic Jesuits, British Anglicans, and American Evangelicals were able to project far beyond their borders. People are intrigued with Chinese culture and history but the religious passion for what China is is simply not there. Indeed China is seen not as a city on a hill but rather as a persecutor by both the Christian and Muslim worlds. It appears to have learned nothing from the fall of the Soviet Union whose moral legitimacy was undermined by its lack of respect for freedom of religion.

The lack of religious freedom is more a symptom than a cause. They are trying hard to pretend everyone in the country is ideologically the same and in a country that large cracks in that facade are bound to grow into bigger problems.

2) China has no real friends. China is the rich man to whom others pander in hope of reward. But it does not have the kind of alliances, global networks, and bases that the Americans have. Its only alliance is with North Korea which is a liability. People do not trust the Chinese because they cover stuff up and there is a lack of transparency about their society. This pandemic is a perfect example.

They are trying to buy/extort friends in Africa. They build large building for African parliaments and then bug every wall or give large loans to build a civics project and then demand a military base or port when the country can't pay back the loan.

3) China is in practice quite racist in its outlook. It is a pure China first outlook. It acts in its own self-interest and considers itself the center of the world. There is none of the charitable giving of American Marshall Aid or the Christian charity and missions of the British Empire or the Jesuits of the Spanish empire. The Americas became global by having the nations flock to them. The British and Spanish by emigrating to the nations and shaping their societies. But China is an island unto itself.

They are trying to make themselves look good with cheap vaccines and other contributions but yeah your assessment is correct.

So my theory is that China will be something similar to what the Ottomans were in their heyday. It will be a major regional power and maybe even on paper the strongest power in the world but its lack of an exportable ideology, the lack of trust and friendship shown towards it and its racist inwardness will keep it marginalized from the center of world-power. The USA may become a smaller economy than China but it has friends, it has an outlook many share and as a global force, it has massive advantages. I believe the West can and should win the propaganda war of this new Cold War with China.

What do you think?

The biggest advantage China has is it's large market, with that it can strong arm super powers like the US to not recognize Taiwan and stand back when they expand into the south china sea. If that market collapsed because of hyper inflation or because of coordinated embargo then they wouldn't have anything else to fall back on. Till then they basically have free reign to whatever they want within their own borders and surrounding areas.

 

[mindlight]

This is not to mention ancient and hidden tensions among various ethnic groups.

The breakup of the old USSR indicated quite well how these suppressed tensions eventually surface. But at was only after the regime collapsed.

 

[mindlight]

They're pairing up with Russia on some major scientific projects, that kind of alliance could become pretty formidable. The Russians have already got US news outlets (and a fair number of US citizens) producing and spreading disinformation on their behalf, so I would say that propaganda war has already been won to a large extent. China has spread its culture and continues to do so, the Han Chinese culture has steadily subsumed numerous others and that process hasn't stopped.
Demographics seem to be their biggest problem, but perhaps that will change too.

Sure the Russians make trade deals with the Chinese and especially with Europe growing greener and complaining about the Ukraine.

But Russia under Putin thinks of itself as a big league power and acts as if that were true. The Russians have shared tech before with China even back to Mao but they are also worried about the Chinese.

 

[CatsRule2020]

I think their Germ Warfare project accidents may do them in. Perhaps the first two less lethal were released on purpose, but, the third probably will not. It might be the most lethal and spread faster that the Chinese government can impound it's residents inside. If that would do any good to minimize such.

 

[Tom 1]

Sure the Russians make trade deals with the Chinese and especially with Europe growing greener and complaining about the Ukraine.

But Russia under Putin thinks of itself as a big league power and acts as if that were true. The Russians have shared tech before with China even back to Mao but they are also worried about the Chinese.

If their joint moon base materialises there's a least a foot on the ladder there for dominating presence, China and Russia together would make for a large amount of often irresponsibly wielded clout. China dominating the semiconductor market, and maybe lithium battery production, in the fairly near future isn't a totally out there possibility.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

The biggest advantage China has is it's large market, with that it can strong arm super powers like the US to not recognize Taiwan

Except the United States had already recognized Taiwan and they sat on the UN Security Council. President Nixon unrecognized Taiwan in the 1970s, long before mainland Communist China had the economic power they currently have.

 

[mindlight]

The lack of religious freedom is more a symptom than a cause. They are trying hard to pretend everyone in the country is ideologically the same and in a country that large cracks in that facade are bound to grow into bigger problems.

There are massive disparities in China between country and city and between a class of super-rich (which often includes high ranking communist party officials) and the rest of China. My understanding is that ideologically they consider themselves to be passing through the phase of capitalism on their way to the equality of a socialist state where each gives according to his ability and each receives according to his need. In practice that seems to be a pipedream that even the communists among the billionaire class do not really subscribe to.

They are trying to buy/extort friends in Africa. They build large building for African parliaments and then bug every wall or give large loans to build a civics project and then demand a military base or port when the country can't pay back the loan.

Africa seems to be mainly about mineral exploitation. But the Chinese already have a base in Djibouti with some 2000 personnel and are looking for one on the Atlantic side of Africa that would give them an Atlantic presence. Given the vast amounts of money and investment they can offer it is interesting that even poor African countries are often reluctant to let them establish bases.

They are trying to make themselves look good with cheap vaccines and other contributions but yeah your assessment is correct.

As with Russia's Sputnik vaccine, the Chinese exports of vaccines do seem to be in line with its desire to obtain influence. Countries have applied for Sinovac in South East Asia and the Middle East. There are plans for African countries but nothing concrete at the moment. You can store Sinovac in a fridge, it's a lot cheaper than Moderna or Pfizer but only 50% effective.

The biggest advantage China has is its large market, with that it can strong arm super powers like the US to not recognize Taiwan and stand back when they expand into the south china sea. If that market collapsed because of hyper inflation or because of coordinated embargo then they wouldn't have anything else to fall back on. Till then they basically have free reign to whatever they want within their own borders and surrounding areas.

The strategy has in recent years shifted from the overwhelming focus on exports to that internal market. Obviously, it gives them massive advantages of scale to have a secure home market and then to come into foreign markets. There has been some dumping to eliminate competition using home profits to support the effort until the competition is destroyed. But I think the world is becoming aware of the strategy and starting to use tax and tariffs to even the playing field for home producers.

 

[mindlight]

I think their Germ Warfare project accidents may do them in. Perhaps the first two less lethal were released on purpose, but, the third probably will not. It might be the most lethal and spread faster that the Chinese government can impound it's residents inside. If that would do any good to minimize such.

The devastating effects of this Pandemic have I hope instructed people throughout the world on just how damaging bioweapons could be. Covid-19 has been globally life-altering and that is a natural occurrence. A bioweapon or bioengineered disease could be devastating. This would not be in the interest of China as it would also impact their own long terms plans.

The vision they declare is coexistence rather than domination although they have been accelerating the development of all the levers of power projection and have designs on the South China Sea and Taiwan which could result in conflicts. But in neither case would it be in China's interest to use Bioweopans.

 

[mindlight]

If their joint moon base materialises there's a least a foot on the ladder there for dominating presence, China and Russia together would make for a large amount of often irresponsibly wielded clout. China dominating the semiconductor market, and maybe lithium battery production, in the fairly near future isn't a totally out there possibility.

If they plonk that base on the best location for lunar ice or on a pole where there is perpetual sunlight then I suppose things could get interesting. I wonder if bases from the West and Sino_Russian pacts would be in the same areas or if they will choose different poles for them. The Moon is a big place and initially, I do not think this will matter much, there is Helium 3 for all. Militarily putting missiles on the moon makes little sense for earth conflicts as they would take too long to get here and there would be too much time to intercept. So long-term strategy, science, and economics will dominate the initial presence. But this is definitely not a good time to cut back on Western space budgets as we are near to the crucial trigger points when real advantage can be established. The Chinese are consistent and persistent in their space plans.

 

[mindlight]

Except the United States had already recognized Taiwan and they sat on the UN Security Council. President Nixon unrecognized Taiwan in the 1970s, long before mainland Communist China had the economic power they currently have.

Taiwan does not really represent the whole of China while mainland China does. It is fitting that they are on the UN Security Council. Taiwan's right to exist is still defended by the USA. This is a question the Americans need to be clear-minded about. Does it matter if reunification occurs or is this something to go to war about? Is this an internal Chinese matter or something on which the West has to take a stand? Either way, if China does to Taiwan what it is doing in Hong Kong this is a death of freedom for the locals. China's influence beyond Hong Kong and Taiwan is clearly weakened by the appearance of being a dictatorship and a totalitarian state that secures its citizen's loyalty by the use of brutal force.

 

[Astrid]

The Pandemic may have started in China but due to a very effective shut down the country has not been majorly impacted by it. Indeed the economy is booming. China has more and more money to spend on military hardware and space expeditions. Its reputation is soaring and if it has not already become so, people expect that China will soon have the largest economy in the world.

But will China ever be a great global power like Spain, Britain or indeed the USA were/are in their heyday?

There are 3 main weaknesses to Chinas bid to be a global number one and they are mainly to do with its ideological outlook.

1) The Chinese have a weak religious base. The church while large in numbers is small relative to the population and so it lacks the kind of global appeal and impact that the Catholic Jesuits, British Anglicans, and American Evangelicals were able to project far beyond their borders. People are intrigued with Chinese culture and history but the religious passion for what China is is simply not there. Indeed China is seen not as a city on a hill but rather as a persecutor by both the Christian and Muslim worlds. It appears to have learned nothing from the fall of the Soviet Union whose moral legitimacy was undermined by its lack of respect for freedom of religion.

2) China has no real friends. China is the rich man to whom others pander in hope of reward. But it does not have the kind of alliances, global networks, and bases that the Americans have. Its only alliance is with North Korea which is a liability. People do not trust the Chinese because they cover stuff up and there is a lack of transparency about their society. This pandemic is a perfect example.

3) China is in practice quite racist in its outlook. It is a pure China first outlook. It acts in its own self-interest and considers itself the center of the world. There is none of the charitable giving of American Marshall Aid or the Christian charity and missions of the British Empire or the Jesuits of the Spanish empire. The Americas became global by having the nations flock to them. The British and Spanish by emigrating to the nations and shaping their societies. But China is an island unto itself.

So my theory is that China will be something similar to what the Ottomans were in their heyday. It will be a major regional power and maybe even on paper the strongest power in the world but its lack of an exportable ideology, the lack of trust and friendship shown towards it and its racist inwardness will keep it marginalized from the center of world-power. The USA may become a smaller economy than China but it has friends, it has an outlook many share and as a global force, it has massive advantages. I believe the West can and should win the propaganda war of this new Cold War with China.

What do you think?

Religion is a weakness.
Just for one, the rabid anti intellectualism
and regressive thinking of your fundamentalists.

There wont be an angel at the gates of the trailer
park ( with a flaming sword that turns this way and that)
when smarter and more motivated people take over.

Countries dont have friends.
USA has allies but tremendous mistrust and resentment.

As for racism, that is integral to imperialism.

The free market capitalism - ideology the USA exports
is not a force for good.
Go ahead and try propaganda.

 

[Astrid]

Xx

 

[mindlight]

Religion is a weakness.
Just for one, the rabid anti intellectualism
and regressive thinking of your fundamentalists.

The most intelligent people I know are Christians. Anti-intellectualism begins with the failure to deal with the possible. Since reason and science cannot rule out the existence of God it is dishonest and dogmatic to exclude discussion of Him and the freedom to explore relationship with Him. This is what China does.

There would be an angel at the gates of the trailer
park ( with a flaming sword that turns this way and that)
when smarter and more motivated people take over.

Your stereotypes are laughable, not all Christians are poor.

Countries dont have friends.
USA has allies but tremendous mistrust and resentment.

The British and other NATO allies of the USA have shed blood and treasure for that friendship, you underestimate it at your peril.

As for racism, that is integral to imperialism.

Aside from the obvious ignorance of missionaries and more enlightened citizens of by gone empires , not to mention the mechanics of how empires worked in practice, this statement sounds more like Marxist drivel than a serious engagement with the issues. Racism has always been a feature of humanity as one group of people sought to assert their supremacy over another. Racism is ultimately rooted in pride and that is as old as Adam. China is one of the most racist countries on the planet today.

The free market capitalism - ideology the USA exports
is not a force for good.
Go ahead and try propaganda.

It has proven better than the alternatives and especially in its more moderated European forms. Who is the propagandist here. Please engage with the issues and offer serious commentary. Mindlessly repeating the dogmas of fools does not work here.

 

[Astrid]

The most intelligent people I know are Christians. Anti-intellectualism begins with the failure to deal with the possible. Since reason and science cannot rule out the existence of God it is dishonest and dogmatic to exclude discussion of Him and the freedom to explore relationship with Him. This is what China does.



Your stereotypes are laughable, not all Christians are poor.



The British and other NATO allies of the USA have shed blood and treasure for that friendship, you underestimate it at your peril.



Aside from the obvious ignorance of missionaries and more enlightened citizens of by gone empires , not to mention the mechanics of how empires worked in practice, this statement sounds more like Marxist drivel than a serious engagement with the issues. Racism has always been a feature of humanity as one group of people sought to assert their supremacy over another. Racism is ultimately rooted in pride and that is as old as Adam. China is one of the most racist countries on the planet today.



It has proven better than the alternatives and especially in its more moderated European forms. Who is the propagandist here. Please engage with the issues and offer serious commentary. Mindlessly repeating the dogmas of fools does not work here.

The most intelligent you know. ;D
What does that tell us.
FUNDAMENTSLSTS, the ones I specifically
mentioned, are from the low ranks of the education
ladder. You cannot be unaware of how regressive
their "creationism" is.

As for mindless dogma, see the above

It works frightfully well in Amrrica.

Serious commentary indeed.

 

[mindlight]

The most intelligent you know. ;D
What does that tell us.
FUNDAMENTSLSTS, the ones I specifically
mentioned, are from the low ranks of the education
ladder. You cannot be unaware of how regressive
their "creationism" is.

As for mindless dogma, see the above

It works frightfully well in Amrrica.

Serious commentary indeed.

Ok this response lacks substance. You appear to have 2 main themes: anti- Americanism and anti-Creationism but both are merely asserted not argued. Since more than half the planet believe God created the Universe you really have to defend what you say there. The antiAmericanism just reads like envy from a country that is not rich enough to be in the G7.

 

[Astrid]

Ok this response lacks substance. You appear to have 2 main themes: anti- Americanism and anti-Creationism but both are merely asserted not argued. Since more than half the planet believe God created the Universe you really have to defend what you say there. The antiAmericanism just reads like envy from a country that is not rich enough to be in the G7.

You are as they say, not even wrong.

If you've no interest in a pov other
than your own, you can certainly
avoid and reject it.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Countries dont have friends.

I think this is the TRUE difference between East and West... Here in the West, countries really do have friends.

It would (and does) appear sad to a Westerner to know that there are countries not willing to rise to this level.