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Scapegoating? Upon whom? I haven't scapegoated anyone just yet.
And you throw in the bonus of "The Christus Victor" theory of atonement? That's a nice, partialist theory, but I think that it's only that, partial in its value. And it has about zero relevance for this thread (other than the goat you're apparently dragging along by a leash and into this thread ... )
There's no need to drag a goat along when that's basically what it's all about.
I have no goat in this fight. But I do have this...
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/minority-report/202007/the-incel-ideology
and this...
A Glimpse Inside Incel Ideology | Hstoday
and this...
http://essay.utwente.nl/82338/1/SaraKonutgan_BachelorThesis_Final Kopie.pdf
It's called scapegoating. Rene Girard has an interesting way of spelling it out in a way that fits right into the Christus Victor theory of atonement.
That's fine. But this being a christian forum I think it's appropriate to interpret this from a christian point of view, wouldn't it?
Looks like that's exactly what you said...
"World culture?" Western Europeans don't get flummoxed about sex or nudity like Americans do in films, magazines, newspapers etc; . They DO object to graphic violence and American television is LOADED with graphically violent movies and television shows. Outdoors? Is it Jean's or yoga pants, or sleeveless blouses in warm weather that bothers a person? Do you want Women to be covered up from head to foot as is done in Moslem countries? What's next? Taking females of all ages off the streets and out of society confined only to indoor situations?
As for ISIS and even non terrorist groups, Afghanistan and Pakistan for example are NOTORIOUS for keeping females out of public and instead underage boys shop work, do the walking about that some Women would be doing. Tragically this makes these minors targets for sexual exploitation by older youths or Men. Afghanistan has an age old custom of training boys to dress, dance and sing like girls, subsequently, they are the entertainment for the Men's all male get to gethers whether they be casual right up to and including wedding after parties where the sexes do not celebrate together. Poor boys are sold by fathers as to bring income to the family.
As for Incels, they don't want prostitutes they only want what they want. The idea of the Nerd getting the hot chick is older than Revenge of the Nerds- the famous Peter Parker of Spider-Man fame starts off as a Nerd who gets superpowers and disdaining shy, intelligent, nice but not so knock out attractive girls goes instead after the hot chicks ie; Gwen Stacy, Mary Jane Watson, Felicia Hardy ( the villainess the Black Cat). Let me know when society toys with the idea of making Spider-Man UN popular!
They haven't been looking at "porn" but a "sexually lax" (whatever that means) "world culture" (whatever that means) and it's breeding resentment?
Which Christian view? I'll take my Christian point of view with a jot of Pascal, a dash of Kierkegaard, a heaping spoonful of Philosophical Hermeneutics and Critical Realism, with a side dish of Langdon Gilkey.
So why the difficulty with connecting Hefner with incels? I mean, with all of that knowledge I would think you'd make a cogent argument. Unless it really was all about social manipulation, which is basically the basis of my arguments about a culture bent toward consuming its own.
You want an argument for this? Do mean like this one?
[ article link] SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals
Tranchese, A., & Sugiura, L. (2021). “I Don’t Hate All Women, Just Those Stuck-Up ______”: How Incels and Mainstream Pornography Speak the Same Extreme Language of Misogyny. Violence against women, 1077801221996453.
I agree, at least it’s what I’ve always suspected (mommy problems.). And it’s so sad how little they believe in love.@Sparagmos
If you scratch beneath the surface there’s usually mommy problems. Their disjointed ideas about the opposite sex were developed at home. The Internet nurtured the seed and increased it.
I don’t recall many speaking highly of their mothers or recollecting fond memories either. They view ‘females’ as objects for sex, breeding, and domesticity. You don’t hear them extolling love either. The vast majority are damaged.
They use feminism as a scapegoat for their failures and ineptitude. And if that doesn’t work they blame women or the media. Personal responsibility is a foreign concept.
Not the strongest argument. I've heard a lot worse. I was hoping for something that made from a christian/theological pov, but I'm done. There's a point where manipulative secular bull crosses a line that hurts christians and goes way too far and I think this is one of them. It's not easy to watch it happen unhindered when you know what it leads to, but there's a time to check out.
I still don't know what you're getting at by assigning whatever it is you "think" I've thus far said to the category of manipulative secular bull.
As far as I'm concerned, you've bailed out before we've even begun. But, that's fine I guess since I'm not interested in having some kind of long-term back and forth jabbing over an obviously ornery topic. Besides, it should be enough for us to read 1 Corinthians 6:18 in Greek and take a hint ----
1 Corinthians 6:18 Parallel Greek Texts
It may surprise you to know that I find this post of yours to be an acceptable summarization of some of the confluences that likely influence the development of an 'Incel' state of mind. But like a lot of social and psychological problems, there's more to this problem in each individual personal situation than just these factors alone. And from a Christian point of view, there's a few more at least.
You need a combination of God and truth serums. Until they understand the behavior is wrong you can't influence them. They can't justify the lack through wrong actions. There has to be deep conviction and repentance.
I agree, at least it’s what I’ve always suspected (mommy problems.). And it’s so sad how little they believe in love.
Until they have an influence to show them that their behavior and thoughts are wrong, they will never understand that it is wrong.
... somewhere, I've heard this story before.
Oh, yeah. I remember now. It seems to reflect something along the lines of why Hugh Hefner started his Playboy magazine empire, albeit this incel philosophy is an obviously much more crass (and violent) form and measure of hedonistic "reflux." ........ Very interesting!
Thanks for the info, Bèlla!
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