The Virgin Thread

[Breetai]

Is it me, or is virginity grossly overemphasized and idealized in the Christian subculture?

It absolutely is.

What does grace mean to you? What does mercy mean to you? God is rich in both. Have you ever sinned and not received the consequences? Have you ever lied and not got caught in it?

As to the rapist question, I don't know of too many female rapists , but if there was one, and I fell in love with her, and she was a repented Christian, my thinking is, if she's good enough for Christ and I love her, then she's good enough for me

So you can't relate to fornication, immoral sex, or lost virginity? Well Christ can't relate to SIN at all, he absolutely hates it, yet absolutely loves us!

Awesome stuff here.

For the record, I can think of a few female rapists.

Date rape and/or having sex with a partner that is unable to consent to sex, for whatever reason, does count as rape, doesn't it???

Even rapists and murderers should be forgiven.

 

[Antman_05]

i'm a Virgin and i believe that i'll marry one, keeping your virginity is important, as its a blood covenment, thus who ever you sleep with in essanse you marry them, thus if you losse your virginity you need to ask for forgiveness and repent of what you have done, as you sin against God, then the person you are going to marry.

 

[john14v6]

I'm still a virgin...and I would prefer to marry one as well....however....the more important thing is that he be deeply and unquestionably in love with Christ more than he desires and loves me...second I've done many things I'm not proud of...thought things I shouldn't have...and I would love to say that I haven't ever had lust in my heart....or that I haven't lied...or that I haven't hated someone.....but the truth of the matter is....even though I have committed adultery or murder in the flesh....I have with my mind....I'm a sinner, I'm imperfect, I needed a savior....but I've put my trust in Christ...I'm changed...and everyday I'm being refined through God's mercy, grace, strength, and correction. The man that God gives me may have a sinful past....and yes it may be difficult for me to overlook that...but love takes sacrifice and forgiveness...you don't love a person for what they have or haven't done....you love them for who they are....Christ loved us when we were enemies of God....I'll love my husband for the God fearing man he is...flaws and all...

 

[JPPT1974]

I am a virgin and hope to marry one myself. And I think most of all, if that person is also a Christian to me would be a big-time bonus. Because having a person who are both tells me something about their character as well as doing the will of the Lord.

 

[B®ent]

StaySalty, I do not appreciate your self-righteous tone. I believe what I believe because sex is a bond between two people -- the two become one flesh. Perhaps you believe as others do that this bond is "overemphasized." So be it. But please do not imply that I am unforgiving; forgiveness simply has nothing to do with it.

Besides, as I said earlier: "Indeed I would prefer to marry a virgin. There are several reasons behind this preference (not requirement) of mine."

God bless all,
Johannes

 

[Breetai]

I am a virgin and hope to marry one myself. And I think most of all, if that person is also a Christian to me would be a big-time bonus. Because having a person who are both tells me something about their character as well as doing the will of the Lord.

I'm not sure that you meant this the way you wrote it here. For myself, marrying a Christian is not a bonus; it's a requirement.

 

[B®ent]

I'm not sure that you meant this the way you wrote it here. For myself, marrying a Christian is not a bonus; it's a requirement.

[edit] - Never mind, I read it the other way around. Lol

I agree it is a requirement.

 

[Sketcher]

Is it me, or is virginity grossly overemphasized and idealized in the Christian subculture?

I don't think so. After all, if not for God's commands in the Law, virginity would not have mattered. I mean, look at all the pagan cultures where sexuality didn't really matter all that much. So the emphasis on virginity began with God.

Now, He forgives the repentant, and they can marry, and it's legal. But let's not forget where the emphasis on virginity originally came from and that He designed it that way for a reason.

 

[invisiblebabe]

I don't think so. After all, if not for God's commands in the Law, virginity would not have mattered. I mean, look at all the pagan cultures where sexuality didn't really matter all that much. So the emphasis on virginity began with God.

Now, He forgives the repentant, and they can marry, and it's legal. But let's not forget where the emphasis on virginity originally came from and that He designed it that way for a reason.

True, but that doesn't mean that God cannot heal and restore non-virgins, if they repent and ask Him to heal them. That's more what I was emphasizing.

 

[the_man]

I don't think so. After all, if not for God's commands in the Law, virginity would not have mattered. I mean, look at all the pagan cultures where sexuality didn't really matter all that much. So the emphasis on virginity began with God.

Now, He forgives the repentant, and they can marry, and it's legal. But let's not forget where the emphasis on virginity originally came from and that He designed it that way for a reason.

Right. But I dont' think that was in question with invisiblebabe's comment. I don't see threads about lying, coveting, stealing and so on, all in Gods law. I think what was in question was that we as humans esteem this particular command in the Law to a level that it is perhaps unfit for (atleast that is how I understood the question, correct me if i'm wrong invisiblebabe).

 

[Eagle_Wings]

Wow...I have so many responses going through my head right now that I don't even know where to begin. First off, I am totally appalled at some of the remarks that I've read in this thread! Even as a virgin, I was completely turned off and insulted by a few of them and can only begin to imagine how any non-virgin felt after reading those.

While I don't hide the fact that I'm a virgin I don't go around answering that question whenever its asked, and quite truthfully, would probably even tell a friend that it's really none of their business. I think there are far more important things that need to take presidence when establishing a relationship then a person's sexual past. Most important, at least to me, is the relationship that the guy has with God, which if it is the type of relationship that I want my guy to have then I can pretty much guarentee you that he's not presently sexually active. As far as the past goes...we've all done things that we regret...God forgives and He will forgive us in the same manner that we forgive others.

I don't mean to single you out, this is something that I think a lot of people would feel.

I'm a long way from being a virgin, but I don't imagine that I would be comparing someone that I love so much (that I would marry her) to someone else. I think that if I were to love someone so much, in the way that God intends us to love someone, they would be at a level where every other person that I'd had sex with would me extremely insignificant. Love transcends all. At least, I like to think so.

Which is how it should be. It would also say alot to me that my future husband would be willing to temporarily give up sex, whether it was given up before meeting me or because it's the only way he'll get a relationship with me. Quite truthfully, it'd be saying that I'M worth waiting for while the previous girls weren't. (Not to cheapen any previous relationships that anyone may have had! But, if you really want to get down to the black and white of it isn't that the message that would be said?)

On the other hand, virginity is a beautiful thing. I think that it's wonderful that you have something to share with someone special, which you've never shared with anyone else. I'm a little worried that I'd feel inadequet with a girl who'd never been with anyone else. I'd be worried that she'd be thinking the same thing that you are saying here; that you are being compared with past lovers. It's sort of a chain reaction.

Hmm, never thought of it that way before.

I guess I've just never placed all that much importance on that matter. Like I said before, I really wouldn't mind too much either way and I'm just surprised at some of the reactions this subject has brought up!

 

[mina]

I am one. I'm shockingly innocent compared to my peers, even the Christian ones-which is weird cause I didn't grow up in a Christian family. I will marry the man that God wants me to be with- I don't know if he is a virgin or is not, but it doesn't really matter to me. I know that if he is in God's will for me I trust that God will bless us tremendously. What really matters to me is if he is a deeply committed Christian that is currently obeying the Lord in all things, as I am striving to be. If he is not a virgin, then it is important to me that he is in full repentance and is living committed to the Lord NOW. I am a virgin, but I have also committed many sins in my life that have all been forgived by Jesus. I would hope that my future husband would not hold any of those against me.

 

[mina]

Hi, it's me again. I just wanted to share a story from the Bible that is quite fitting here. The story of Rahab the prostitue. This woman was involved in lewd sexual acts with many men in exchange for money. But yet, she recognized the Lord and His works, submitted to Him, protected His people, and repented. God cleansed her and she married a Jewish man. Not just any Jewish man, I think he was a priest ( I could be wrong). But, she is honored for her faith in Hebrews and she married into the line that out of would come Jesus, the most perfect and pure. She became the mother of Boaz, who married Ruth, who was the mother of Jesse, who was the father of David. If God can forgive and make pure a prostitue and welcome her into His bloodline, then I'm sure we are called to forgive and even maybe wed someone that might have messed up when they didn't know the Lord.

 

[B®ent]

then I'm sure we are called to forgive and even maybe wed someone that might have messed up when they didn't know the Lord.

I cannot speak for others, but I can assure you that for myself this is not an issue of forgiveness or lack thereof. Sure, I will forgive a person, but that doesn't mean I have to marry them. Allow me to expand on this.

I know a family -- very close friends of mine -- in which the husband repeatedly cheated on his wife. Each time he cheated, he repented and asked for forgiveness. She took him back about 9 times, as I recall. That's when she divorced him. Does divorce mean she didn't forgive him? Of course not. She did forgive him, but there were consequences to his actions. I hope you see the parellel I'm drawing here. Consequences do not imply lack of forgiveness. In fact, consequences are often what's best for us.

My perspective on sex is that it is a bond between a man and a woman; whether they are married or not, the two become one flesh, and therefore are bound together. Why would I want to marrry a girl who is bound to another man? I hope you can understand where I'm coming from. This isn't a decision I take lightly, nor self-righteously as some have implied. This is a very deep, personal decision between the Lord and myself, and I deeply wish it could be respected by all. I am not forcing my beliefs on anyone else.

That all having been said, I'm open to what the Lord has in store for me. If it's His Will that I marry a non-virgin then I believe He will prepare my heart for that.

Peace to All,
Johannes

 

[the_man]

My perspective on sex is that it is a bond between a man and a woman; whether they are married or not, the two become one flesh, and therefore are bound together. Why would I want to marrry a girl who is bound to another man?

This is not to pick on you, but it just came to mind once I saw you reiterate it.

I think it is flawed thinking to think that the sex act alone is what makes a man and a woman 'one flesh'. What I also think is that we would be in error in thinking that becoming one flesh is a one time occurance. It is a present continuous statement which is daily reinforced by ones commitment love another in the marriage relationship. Even after your wedding night, you are no where near 'one flesh'. Even after 20 years of marriage, 'one flesh' is not achieved. It is an on going thing both parties strive for in a marriage.

 

[waterbear]

It's not forgiveness, it's discretion. First, all decisions are based on past information, it may be relatively recent information but it's still the past. Second, you can't marry everyone - thus picking a spouse assumes discretion.

1 - If I can pick between any non-virgin and being alone, I pick being alone.
2 - If I can pick between any virgin and being alone, I pick the virgin.
3 - Therefore, I only date virgins.

I won't get into why I pick what I do because, assuming I'm able to commit to the person I do pick, the process is irrelevant. Because I assumed I had a choice, that I forgive need not have an impact on how I decide.

I can forgive someone for being obese, but that doesn't mean I'll date her. I can forgive someone for being 50 yrs old, but that doesn't mean I'll date her. I can forgive someone for cheating on me, but that doesn't mean I won't divorce her. I can forgive someone for being annoying, but that doesn't mean I won't avoid him/her.

What I find interesting are how many people are unwilling to date someone when that someone could change and it'd be like their disagreeable condition never happened. I don't mind giving anyone a chance, assuming the condition can be remedied.

 

[mina]

I don't think ya'll got what I was saying at all. I don't mean that you should go around and marry the first non-virgin you see or else you don't have forgiveness in your heart. What I'm saying is that people who made a mistake in thier past and who are now fully following the Lord and who have become awesome strong Christians should not be viewed as untouchables. the Lord can change anyone's life and redeem anyone's past, Praise God! If they are continuing in sin now, then they have not repented and are not following the Lord. If God brings someone into your life, who are you to tell God NO I will not like them because they made a mistake. Sin does bring consequences, however you can trust God in all things to make all things right, even in sex with a spouse. Now you do have to be careful who you marry, but don't rule out an awesome Godly person who knows they made a mistake and wants to and is now living by God's rules. Marriage isn't all about sex anyways, although it is a good and fun part of it i would assume. But I think if God leads you to someone, then He is a big enough God to bless your union no matter what mistakes either of you made in any area of life.

 

[Sketcher]

True, but that doesn't mean that God cannot heal and restore non-virgins, if they repent and ask Him to heal them. That's more what I was emphasizing.

Yes, but by the same token, if we emphasize that too much, it makes waiting for marraige seem useless. Get a piece and repent, you'll be A-OK.

Hi, it's me again. I just wanted to share a story from the Bible that is quite fitting here. The story of Rahab the prostitue. This woman was involved in lewd sexual acts with many men in exchange for money. But yet, she recognized the Lord and His works, submitted to Him, protected His people, and repented. God cleansed her and she married a Jewish man. Not just any Jewish man, I think he was a priest ( I could be wrong).

It wouldn't have been a priest because they HAD to marry virgins. They couldn't even marry widows if they wanted to. Besides, it's the wrong tribe. Priests came from the tribe of Levi, while Boaz, David, and Jesus were from the tribe of Judah.

But, she is honored for her faith in Hebrews and she married into the line that out of would come Jesus, the most perfect and pure. She became the mother of Boaz, who married Ruth, who was the mother of Jesse, who was the father of David. If God can forgive and make pure a prostitue and welcome her into His bloodline, then I'm sure we are called to forgive and even maybe wed someone that might have messed up when they didn't know the Lord.

God did forgive her, and sure we're called to forgive. But not nescesarily marry. I think we're free to choose that on our own discretion.

I think it is flawed thinking to think that the sex act alone is what makes a man and a woman 'one flesh'. What I also think is that we would be in error in thinking that becoming one flesh is a one time occurance. It is a present continuous statement which is daily reinforced by ones commitment love another in the marriage relationship. Even after your wedding night, you are no where near 'one flesh'. Even after 20 years of marriage, 'one flesh' is not achieved. It is an on going thing both parties strive for in a marriage.

But that's not what Jesus said about marraige. Sure, you have to work hard for more intimacy and you'll have your disagreements, but look at what He says:

"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." - Matthew 19:4-6

No longer two, but one. What God Himself has joined together. Think about that.

 

[Sketcher]

What I'm saying is that people who made a mistake in thier past and who are now fully following the Lord and who have become awesome strong Christians should not be viewed as untouchables.

If I considered them untouchables, I wouldn't even speak to them let alone be friends with some of them.

 

[mina]

It wouldn't have been a priest because they HAD to marry virgins. They couldn't even marry widows if they wanted to. Besides, it's the wrong tribe. Priests came from the tribe of Levi, while Boaz, David, and Jesus were from the tribe of Judah.


sorry, I said I could be wrong and I was. I wan't reALLY sure. But he was an important man.

God did forgive her, and sure we're called to forgive. But not nescesarily marry. I think we're free to choose that on our own discretion.

Yes, but non-virgins are people not trolls, and and sometimes other people chose to love them dispite their past, and God blesses them just the same-IF they have turned away from that and are intent on pleasing God. Sigh, I don't think i'm adaquately explaining what i'm trying to say so i'm going to step out of this thread. It seems to be going in circles.

. Sorry I didn't know how to do the quote thing.