The two types of tongues in the bible, please help.

[pauluk3]

I hope that excuse works for you.

You see, I don't care about the counterfeits. I don't care about your incomplete knowledge of religious history. I care about what the Bible actually says. The Bible says it's real, that's all I need to know.

All the best for you, I hope you find the real truth one day, thanks for the chat.

 

[pauluk3]

No, I didn't waste much time learning all of the ways to get Christianity wrong. I spent my time reading the Bible instead. Since you were never looking for what the Bible actually says in the first place and just wanted someone to agree with your unbiblical religious fallacies, I am sure that I am not qualified to assist you in your true goal.

ohh dont get me wrong I have studies all the bibles reference to tongues and its clear ecstatic speech is not from God, very clear, earthly langues spoken by those who did not know them, now that is very clear.

 

[jiminpa]

All the best for you, I hope you find the real truth one day, thanks for the chat.

You mean some truth other than the Bible and the God who inspired it? yeah, I'm not looking for that sort of "truth." But good luck in your quest for another truth.

 

[pauluk3]

You mean some truth other than the Bible and the God who inspired it? yeah, I'm not looking for that sort of "truth." But good luck in your quest for another truth.

No of course the bible is the only true source of truth, there is no other truth - I may be wrong in my assumptions but really good have a read were ecstatic speech came from, I also used to belive in ecstatic speech cause that's what i was taught from young, but when you really look into it just does not make sense really, but all the best I hope I did not offend you.

Glossolalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[jiminpa]

No of course the bible is the only true source of truth, there is no other truth - I may be wrong in my assumptions but really good have a read were ecstatic speech came from, I also used to belive in ecstatic speech cause that's what i was taught from young, but when you really look into it just does not make sense really, but all the best I hope I did not offend you.

Glossolalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Um, I'm sorry, wikipedia is not more authoritive than the Bible. You keep using a lack of evidence as "proof" of the lack of existence. The only thing I consider it evidence of is ignorance.

 

[Biblicist]

But I believe ecstatic speech is not from God, so I am not disrespecting God at all

As a tongues speaking Pentecostal of 40 years, I would agree with you on this as I have never met a Pentecostal who accepts that any form of ‘ecstatic’ speech is of God, in fact ‘ecstatic’ speech is either of the devil or simply the product of a deluded mind.

Up until maybe the early 80’s it was fairly common to hear non-charismatic commentators employing the ‘ecstatic’ term when they referred to what they deemed to be contemporary tongues but they did so more out of ignorance. Once they became better educated on the subject they soon realized that Pentecostals and charismatics rejected any form of ecstatic tongue and as one had to be in some form of trance before they could be deemed to be operating in an ecstatic manner this very dated term was dropped. This term has now become the sole domain of the pamphleteer and novice.

Your comment to Jiminpa in post #20 was rather amusing, “wow , do don't even know were ecstatic speech orginated from…” - you obviously misunderstand how the term is to be used.

…like i said ecstatic speech only stated when Charles Parnham showed up, have actually read about were Pentecostalism came from ? You do know that almost all pagan religion speak tongues (ecstatic speech) right ?

The historians tell us that the Huguenots (or at least some) spoke in tongues during the 1600s as did the Irvingites in England from the 1830’s. There were undoubtedly other undocumented groups as well but by the mid forth century when we consider the very poor spiritual state of the Church, we should not be surprised that there are very few reliable accounts where the Holy Spirit appeared to be praying through individuals; as he was hardly welcome in many parts the Church after this time then we should not be all that surprised. We may as well say that ‘justification by faith’ is unbiblical as this fundamental Biblical doctrine was only restored during the Reformation and of course the vast majority of Believers in the West still believed in the authority of the pope and his middlemen.

Firstly whenever touges is spoke it is of the Holy Spirit supernaturally- so you do agree there are two types of tongues (ecstatic speech and earthly languages - not know by the speaker as displayed at Pentecost)

Even though it is common within both Pentecostal and charismatic circles to hear of “two types of tongues”, this is still a misunderstanding of tongues where many see the Day of Pentecost as being a form of tongues which is different to how we regularly pray in the Spirit, as per 1Cor 14, Rom 8:26 & Eph 6:18.

On the Day of Pentecost I seriously doubt if these rather rustic 120 Galileans realized that they were speaking in known human languages until the nearby Jews approached Peter and told him that this was happening; even then Peter would not have told the others until after they had finished praising the Lord. Of course we do not know if all of the 120 were necessarily praying in the Spirit in known languages as it may have been only 30, 60 or more but this is only conjecture.

As for the 120 on the Day of Pentecost or with the Church of the past century or more, we would have absolutely no idea if we were praying to the Father in known human languages unless someone were to tell us that this was happening. Of course, I have never been in a situation where this has occurred and being a suburbanite I do not expect that I will ever come across this very rare application of tongues.

 

[Andrea411]

But I believe ecstatic speech is not from God, so I am not disrespecting God at all , like i said ecstatic speech only stated when Charles Parnham showed up, have actually read about were Pentecostalism came from ? You do know that almost all pagan religion speak tongues (ecstatic speech) right ?

This is the Spirit -filled section ....it is against the rules for you to be here sharing your anti-charismatic views. Thanks, andrea

 

[tturt]

Pauluk3, Perhaps these Scriptures will help.

There's a diversities of tongues (I Cor 12:28)

Tongues are a sign To unbelievers Of believers. (I Cor 14:22 and Mark 16:17.

Yes, there are ungodly tongues but to have the false - it means there is the authentic.

Also, there's "Seventy Reasons to Speak in Tongues" Dr. Hamon

 

[Alithis]

there is one same Holy spirit..manifestations abound.

 

[missmarple]

in all the years I served the devil, I never spoke in tongues once.
but when I got saved, baptised in water, and baptised in the Holy Spirit, I began to speak in tongues.
Tongues is the doorway gift to the other gifts. Its highly unlikely that anyone will walk in the other gifts=prophetic, miracles, healings, deliverances, word of wisdom, word of knowledge, etc=unless one has first received the baptism of HS with tongues.
Tongues never ceased from the Church. There are rerences all through Church historical writings to evidence of the baptism of HS with tongues, although they didnt use those terms. but the Church was in the dark ages for a long time, under the rule of the popes, people forbidden bibles, etc. But still there were always those who sought the Lord and received from Him all the gifts. The difference NOW is that many millions of us are now walking in these gifts. And all the more so as we are in the end times. How will christians survive these days without the gifts? how will they fight the spiritual battles without the spiritual weapons? Our youth are being taught satanism and newage religions and are becoming more and more demonized. How will christians deal with that, without the gifts? they wont be able to, they will be helpless and ineffective.
So my advice to those who do not have the baptism of the Holy Spirit with tongues, is to seek it with all your heart and stop listening to the lies taught to you from so many pulpits.
the Trinity isnt Father Son and Bible, its Father Son and Holy Spirit. Dont leave HIM out.

 

[missmarple]

somehow I posted it twice.

 

[murjahel]

This is the Spirit -filled section ....it is against the rules for you to be here sharing your anti-charismatic views. Thanks, andrea

thanks, I agree... this poster who has a historic background noted, is working, I sense, a 'setup' ... I believe he is not a sincere questioner, but would love to disrupt, challenge, and attempt to dissuade if possible... a cessationist agenda... not sincere questioning...

FOR THOSE WHO MAY HAVE BEEN UNSETTLED BY THE QUESTIONS... THIS IS FROM THE TEACHING THREAD ABOVE IN THIS FORUM...

THE GIFT OF TONGUES is the ability to give a message from God in an unknown language. It needs an interpreter to be understood. The purpose is to edify the church.

This gift is different from the use of the prayer language that is received when one is filled with the Spirit initially. The prayer language is given for self-edification. It is given to be used for private prayer to God.

The gift of tongues may be the same language, yet it is different gift to be used to edify a body of believers.

Since this is one of the most questioned of the gifts, it is the one we are most often compelled to discuss. It is a gift that is received by many people, and thus also is often discussed in Christian circles. It was the first gift questioned on the day of Pentecost - "WHAT MEANETH THIS ?" (Acts 2:12)

The languages of this gift are said to be the languages of men, or angels. The speaker does not understand the language, but the Holy Spirit uses the vocal cords, tongue, and lips of a Spirit-filled saint and speaks through that one a message from God or Christ. It does not come into the mind first, but flows though the mouth and the speaker listens to it as the others present do. It has nothing to do with linguistic ability, or with the mind, or with the intellect.

There are specific uses for the prayer language that all Spirit-filled believers receive. These are:

1.The tongues, or prayer language, is one possible of the initial physical evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

As on the Day of Pentecost,
Acts 2:4 (KJV)
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

and at Caesarea eight years later when the Gentiles received,
Acts 10:46 (KJV)
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

and at Ephesus, 23 years later, the reception of the Holy Spirit was climaxed with the unknown tongues.
Acts 19:6 (KJV)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


2. The prayer language is given to allow Spirit-filled people to speak supernaturally to God. 1 Corinthians 14:2 (KJV)
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

On the Day of Pentecost, the people heard the 120 magnifying God in these tongues. We also will glorify God with this prayer language.

3.A third reason for the prayer language is that we may be edified by the worship. Our own spirits pray and request things that our conscience minds are unaware we need.

I Cor. 14:4, 14
"HE THAT SPEAKS IN A TONGUE EDIFIES HIMSELF... I WILL PRAY WITH THE SPIRIT, AND I WILL PRAY WITH THE UNDERSTANDING ALSO."

Romans 8:26-27
"...THE SPIRIT ALSO HELPETH OUR INFIRMITIES; FOR WE KNOW NOT WHAT WE SHOULD PRAY FOR AS WE OUGHT; BUT THE SPIRIT HIMSELF MAKETH INTERCESSION FOR THE SAINTS ACCORDING TO THE WILL OF GOD."

The gift of tongues has a separate purpose from that of the prayer language ‘tongues’.

The ‘gift of tongues’ is given for that reason to specific ones who are Spirit-filled. A message from God or Jesus is conveyed by the Holy Spirit to a body of believers in an unknown tongue through some saint with this gift.

Then a person with the gift of interpretation is given the meaning of the message in the language of the hearers and tells the people what the Spirit is conveying to them.

1 Corinthians 14:12-14 (KJV)
12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

1 Corinthians 14:5 (KJV)
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

1 Corinthians 14:26 (KJV)
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

This method of God speaking to believers is meant to be a sign to unbelievers that are present.


Can speaking in tongues be counterfeited?

All the gifts of the Spirit can be counterfeited. There are certainly strange utterances and sounds that are made by those who worship other gods. They are counterfeits of the true gift of the spirit. Anything that God does, the devil will try to counterfeit. God has promised that he will not allow a counterfeit to take a Christian.


Luke 11:11-13 (KJV)
If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?


Even though there are counterfeits out there, we are told to desire this gift. We are also commanded to not forbid the speaking in tongues. Many churches are guilty of breaking this command.

I Cor. 14:39
"COVET TO PROPHESY, FORBID NOT TO SPEAK WITH TONGUES."

The test for the use of the gift of tongues is EDIFICATION. Is the gift used at a time that edifies the service? Does the message edify the meeting of believers? Is it done decently and in order?

I Cor. 14:26,40
"LET ALL THINGS BE DONE TO EDIFYING...LET ALL THINGS BE DONE DECENTLY AND IN ORDER

 

[murjahel]

Xenolalia or Glossalalia or gibberish????



Is the ‘speaking in tongues’ as done in Pentecostal circles, really “devilish counterfeits for the real’? Are ‘tongues’ really ‘gibberish’, or are they ‘languages’ of communication from our spirit to God in prayer language, and of God through the Holy Spirit to the church, for interpretation and blessing for the church?


When Charles Parham and some of the first to receive this gift of tongues, first received it, there was a bit of understandable confusion, of what it was, how was it to be used. This was totally new to Parham, and his study was not the best, and he understood tongues to be ‘languages’ that God supernaturally put into those filled so they could go and evangelize those who spoke those languages. Parham thought they were to be used in evangelism.

We all remember that the gift of the Holy Spirit for the Gentiles first came when Peter went to the home of Cornelius. There the Holy Spirit came upon them, as at the upper room on the day of Pentecost. No one is reading the excerpts of the book of Cornelius. No, he was saved, filled, spoke in tongues, but there was no one of other tongues to hear them evangelize inside his home where this occurred.

Parham misunderstood the gift, and he was not a Bible nor doctrine expert. Parham had a lot of growth to go, a lot of knowledge to learn. He believed in the separation of blacks from whites, he had some other issues that needed the Lord to work on. His ideas on what tongues were for, how they were to be used, needed some growth and training. He sent some to be missionaries to foreign lands, promising them that their ‘tongues’ language would be understood by the natives, there was no need to learn their language. That proved disastrous for the victims of his wrong ideas.

That is not normally the case that ‘tongues’ are used to evangelize. On a few occasions, God has used ‘tongues’ to enable a minister to speak to a people that normally he could not. That is a rare gift called xenolalia, and A.G. Ward (father of C.M. Ward, long time radio pastor for the Assemblies of God) had this gift one time when going to a tribe of Indians in northern Canada. The translator suddenly was unavailable, and A.G. Ward stood before some native Americans that spoke no English, and he spoke not their language. At the direction of the Lord, A.G. Ward began to speak in tongues, and the tribe understood every word, and many came to salvation that day. That is a rare use of God for the ‘tongues’. A.G. Ward prayed often in the prayer language, and gave messages in tongues, and interpretations, and understood the more normal reason for the unknown languages. Yet, on a rare occasion, one time, God used the tongues to help him in a situation in which he had not foolishly assumed God would do that. God knows that missionaries need the language of the people for more than just evangelizing, and so God expects us to study and learn the language of the people to whom we minister. We need to know it when we go to the market to order a pound of ground meat. God has a purpose for tongues, and it is clearly delineated in the Written Word of God.

William Seymour, pastor of the Azusa St revival saw tongues, as a gift for a church service, for God to gently take time to send a message in the unknown language (not gibberish), and an interpreter would then interpret the comfort, exhortation, and edification message of the tongues. The church was blessed, and these kind of things still occur in our time, and have occurred in all the ages since the day of Pentecost. Tongues are also a prayer language, where the Holy Spirit prays through us for things we may not know we need, for events soon to come that it is best if we not know of them yet, for intercession of problems yet to be revealed. This prayer language was how tongues work in Pentecostal circles. When Parham visited the church of William Seymour at Azusa St, the church needed to correct a number of problems that Parham had, and finally ask him to leave. Even then, the misuse of gifts, the assumption of knowledge, was a problem in the church.

Some critics today still look at the first concept of Parham, and take that to be what ‘tongues’ are. It rarely has been that. To use ‘the day of Pentecost’ as an example, is a bit of a stretch. The people watching the tongue speaking disciples emerging from the upper room noted they were speaking ‘languages’ and not gibberish, but they did not need the language, for these were Hebrew people from around the world who knew the languages of the land from which they came, but also knew Hebrew, and therefore, no foreign language was needed to convert them. The languages, unknown to the disciples, were known and recognized as real languages, and they heard in these languages praises and worship of the disciples. This is consistent with the understanding of William Seymour, and not illustrative of the misconception of Parham.

Xenolalia is not what the Biblical gift of tongues truly is. It is very wrong to assume that this rare blessing of xenolalia is the normal use of the gift of tongues. Xenolalia, the giving of a real language without study, to speak to people of that language, is not what the gift of tongues is, and only rarely occurs, as needed for the spreading of the gospel.

The true gift of tongues, glossolalia, is not ‘gibberish’, though there is some gibberish imitation, strange fire, out there. The devil’s counterfeits do not negate the blessing of the real ‘gift of tongues’. There are more than 6000 languages in this world. Some are well known, and recognize-able. Some are complicated, with many sounds, inflections, and over 100,000 words. Most have 10,000 words or less. Some are made up of several sounds, repeated over and with different inflections. Some would sound like ‘gibberish’ to all but the ones understanding that language.

The ‘tongues’ of the Bible also include ‘tongues of angels’, and that is the heavenly language, that none of us know from learning and study, and is comprehendible only to beings of heaven. Some may be languages of long past on this earth, as the ancient Egyptian language, the language of the Mayans, the language of ancient people now no longer existent. Glossolalia has often been recognized by some who know the language that the one praising God in that language does not know.

Those who speak in tongues lack the readily comprehension of the language. Some few times, another there may recognize or understand, but normally, it takes a ‘gift of interpretation’, whereas the unknown tongue is supernaturally given meaning.

Tertullian, in 207 A.D., speaks of the interpretation of the ‘unknown tongues’ as still occurring in worship services in which he was in attendance.

Justin Martyr, in 150 A.D., said ‘the prophetic gifts remain with us.’

Irenaeus said in 180 A.D., ‘we do hear many brethren... who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages and bring to light... mysteries of God.’

In the 17th century, the Camisards (French Spirit filled people) sometimes spoke in unknown languages. The utterances were interpreted, and sometimes by the same person that was speaking the unknown language.

Edward Burrough, a Quaker of the 17th century, said:
“We spoke with new tongues, as the Lord gave us utterance, and His Spirit led us.”

Montanists of the second century were Spirt filled, tongues speaking, Christians. John Wesley and many others considered them Christian, while the Catholic church and some others want to brand them heretics. They did have some problems, as we are experiencing today. With the prophetic messages, there came a tendency to allow the human, or demonic element to speak out, and they did not test all the messages, as commanded by Paul, and were led astray by false prophetic words.

Today, many of the so called ‘prophetic words’, whether they be in English or in tongues with interpretation, are engendered by greed and avarice, and are not harmonious with the Bible. The fake in the early days of the church, shamed those deceived then, and the ones duped today should also be ashamed. Paul and John both warned us to test all things, and that is vital whether it be a sermon from pulpit, or a prophetic word from a Pentecostal voice. All are to be tested.

The Irvingites was another tongue speaking, Spirit filled group. In 1792, a deposed Presbyterian minister began a church, that they like to call the ‘Catholic Apostolic Church’ which they intended to model after the early church of the apostles. They felt God was calling 12 to be new apostles. The last of these died in 1901, and the church then had 80 churches. It has grown smaller and smaller to almost extinction now. They had ‘tongues, interpretations, prophetic words, healings, and preached much on the second coming of Jesus.

So, it was not just a gift of the first century, and it did not simply re-arrive at Azusa St. There have always been peoples who have received the infilling of the Holy Spirit, and one of those gifts of the Holy Spirit, is and has been, the speaking in tongues.


The Mormons claim to speak in tongues. Yet, their idea of tongues is the education of their young men to the foreign language they will speak in the country they spend their year of missionary work. That is not ‘tongues’ as we see it in the Bible.

There are satanic counterfeits of ‘tongues’ in paganism, in Shamanism, in the voodoo of Haiti, amongst the Hindu gurus and Fakirs of India. These are not from God. They are gibberish or satanic imitations.

We call these xenoglossia, or pseudo-glossia. The devil has satanic rock groups give ‘altar calls’ to the devil. That counterfeit does not make us throw out the altar calls to the Lord. The antichrist and false prophet will do signs and wonders, but we do not call the miracles of the two witnesses, Enoch and Elijah, to be counterfeit because the devil has imitations of God’s miracles.

So, yes, there is ‘gibberish’ today. There is still the real, still the genuine tongues, that the Holy Spirit inspires, blesses, and uses in our ministries.
__________________

 

[Biblicist]

thanks, I agree... this poster who has a historic background noted, is working, I sense, a 'setup' ... I believe he is not a sincere questioner, but would love to disrupt, challenge, and attempt to dissuade if possible...a cessationist agenda...not sincere questioning...

I agree that the posters motives were undoubtedly less than honest but I must say that in this day and age that the arguments that the contemporary hard-core cessationist relies on are usually fairly old world and rustic. As his motives were probably obvious to most, when someone attempts to troll their poorly thought out arguments they can often be turned around to help other cessationists or quasi-cessationists who come across their threads.

The languages of this gift are said to be the languages of men, or angels. The speaker does not understand the language, but the Holy Spirit uses the vocal cords, tongue, and lips of a Spirit-filled saint and speaks through that one a message from God or Christ. It does not come into the mind first, but flows though the mouth and the speaker listens to it as the others present do. It has nothing to do with linguistic ability, or with the mind, or with the intellect.

Even though popular thought is that the Holy Spirit will speak to someone through a message in tongues, which is essentially tongues + interpretation = prophecy; this is still a misnomer as Paul unequivocally tells us that such prayer is always directed to the Father and never to man, which means that the Holy Spirit will never speak to an individual or group through tongues, that is to be the domain of prophecy.

We can also add in that the Scriptures do not provide us with any examples where this has occurred. I know that people often point to the Day of Pentecost as an example of where the Holy Spirit will speak to an individual or group, but in this example his words of praise are not directed to the Jews as he is simply speaking words of praise to the Father through the 120.

In my opinion this misunderstanding of the use of tongues has been an Achilles heel for the Pentecostal movement which has caused more harm than good.

 

[Alithis]

Please could you help me and answer these questions, I want to learn but to be honest I have a lot of questions -

Firstly I totally agree in an earthly language called tongues that you speak , say for example you understood English but supernaturally spoke in Spanish (like at Pentecost ) this was used to spread the word of God at that time in history.

But some churches teaches there is another type of tongues, a type of gibberish or ecstatic speech.

1. If tongues are so important, why does the bible not clearly explain the difference between the two supposedly types of tongues?

2. Why should there be two types of tongues, there are no other two types of any other gifts of the holy spirit, it just seems tongues is the odd one out and it turns christian and unbelievers away from God.

3. Why did Jesus not speak in tongues when he was baptized ( or ever) ?
4. Why do none of the disciples teach about tongues ?
5. Why does Paul only speak to the church of Corinthians about tongues and no other church, was it cause there were so many people speaking in different languages ?

6. Why were there no tongues (ecstatic speech) for over a thousand years until the Pentecostal movement ?

In 1900, Charles Parham, an American evangelist and faith healer, began teaching that speaking in tongues was the Bible evidence of Spirit baptism. The three-year-long Azusa Street Revival in Los Angeles, California, resulted in the spread of Pentecostalism throughout the United

Is it possible tongues are from satan as they are practiced many pagan religions ?

im glad others exposed you obvious motives.

you have asked a set of questions only to lay a foundation to promote cessationism .which is more then a little pointless .. its like telling a brown skinned man he is not brown skinned man.
most here have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and speak in other tongues as the spirit gives utterance.

 

[Alithis]

I agree that the posters motives were undoubtedly less than honest but I must say that in this day and age that the arguments that the contemporary hard-core cessationist relies on are usually fairly old world and rustic. As his motives were probably obvious to most, when someone attempts to troll their poorly thought out arguments they can often be turned around to help other cessationists or quasi-cessationists who come across their threads.


Even though popular thought is that the Holy Spirit will speak to someone through a message in tongues, which is essentially tongues + interpretation = prophecy; this is still a misnomer as Paul unequivocally tells us that such prayer is always directed to the Father and never to man, which means that the Holy Spirit will never speak to an individual or group through tongues, that is to be the domain of prophecy.

We can also add in that the Scriptures do not provide us with any examples where this has occurred. I know that people often point to the Day of Pentecost as an example of where the Holy Spirit will speak to an individual or group, but in this example his words of praise are not directed to the Jews as he is simply speaking words of praise to the Father through the 120.

In my opinion this misunderstanding of the use of tongues has been an Achilles heel for the Pentecostal movement which has caused more harm than good.

experientially i have noted ,at those times i have known ,in a meeting,the anointing or quickening to use an old but descriptively good phrase,of the holy Spirit and found myself praying strongly but quietly in tongues..i have broken out in extremely loud voice suddenly..in english.. but heres the thing..
not with directive or foretelling words save one time. but with abandoned declarations of praise and giving of glory to the lord Jesus or prayer..
one time only the words came out ..thus says the lord...lol i almost cringed when i heard those words,but what followed was dancing flashing lights and flashings in vision and the words of invitation into the Love of God..

so as you observe it is more praise.intercessory prayer,mysteries in the spirit..then direct propecy..albeit there is a unifying link in all the gifts,being the Holy spirit

And as a dearly departed sister used to say ... "the anointing is NOT an automatic validation of everything the person does or says."(-jill austen)

 

[LinkH]

Please could you help me and answer these questions, I want to learn but to be honest I have a lot of questions -

Firstly I totally agree in an earthly language called tongues that you speak , say for example you understood English but supernaturally spoke in Spanish (like at Pentecost ) this was used to spread the word of God at that time in history.

Spanish didn't exist in the first century, btw.

The Bible never says people used the gift of tongues to preach the gospel to the nations. In Acts 2, it gathered attention and even drew scoffing. After people were paying attention, Peter preached the Gospel, probably in a common tongue. Nowhere does the Bible teach that tongues were given to enable people to preach in languages that they do not know.

But some churches teaches there is another type of tongues, a type of gibberish or ecstatic speech.

From my perspective this is a straw man argument. Some churches may think that. I think some WOFers hold to a similar belief. I believe genuine tongues are the tongues of men and of angels. There was a book written in 1971 by Paul Harris that documented numerous cases of people understanding speaking in tongues. Several years ago the book was available for free online in a cumbersome e-reader format. I've read of a case at Azusa Street where this occurred. There is also a Vincent Synan interview, probably from the 60's or early 70's with an elderly woman who said that people would come and hear tongues in their own languages. LA was an international town at the time.

This link is also interesting, LCMS Post Cessationist Theology: Xenolalia at Concordia Theological Seminary Springfield.

1. If tongues are so important, why does the bible not clearly explain the difference between the two supposedly types of tongues?

Critics of Pentecostalism create the two categories of tongues. I suspect few Pentecostals think modern tongues are different from the Acts 2 variety. Those that do probably have been reading a lot of theological journals or other literature from nonPentecostals.

3. Why did Jesus not speak in tongues when he was baptized ( or ever) ?

Why would it bother you if He didn't? The Bible doesn't say whether He did or did not, but why should it matter?

4. Why do none of the disciples teach about tongues ?

Paul and Peter were disciples.

5. Why does Paul only speak to the church of Corinthians about tongues and no other church, was it cause there were so many people speaking in different languages ?

Why would people speak in different languages only in Corinth and not in the other cities? Why not Philippi or Ephesus?

How many times does a doctrine have to be established in scripture before we believe it? References to appointing elders shows up in a couple of epistles. Does that mean other churches didn't have elders?

6. Why were there no tongues (ecstatic speech) for over a thousand years until the Pentecostal movement ?

False assumption. There are references to speaking in tongues before Azusa Street. Maybe some other posters will post references. I've read a possible reference to Calvin speaking in tongues recently. There were people speaking in tongues in England, Germany, and Maine, Tennessee, North Carolina and various other places in the US before Azusa Street

Is it possible tongues are from satan as they are practiced many pagan religions ?

Demons can mimic speaking in foreign languages. But Paul doesn't tell Christians to be scared or paranoid that their tongues are demonic.


Also, usually those who call tongues 'ecstatic utterances' are those who don't believe in it, or those who do who've been reading certain streams of literature and like to use the same terminology. It's a misnomer. One does not have to be an ecstatic state to speak in tongues. One could be ecstatic while preaching or prophesying, too. Not all ecstatic speech is tongues and not all tongues is ecstatic.

 

[ARBITER01]

Where does the text say that the disciples spoke those languages? It says that the disciples spoke in tongues, but did not describe the tongues that they spoke. Then it says that each person heard in his own language, (some translations specify dialect). You are assuming that there was no supernatural interpretation, and are inserting your assumption into the text as if it is actually there.

That is correct.

Peter described the event as "prophecy" and chose an OT passage to validate the event to those questioning it. Prophecy can be by the gift of prophecy or by tongues with interpretation.

The event was by utterance of The Holy Spirit, so for those folks to hear known languages, they would have heard the gift of interpretation actively interpreting the corporate tongues that were happening by The Holy Spirit.

The gift of tongues by itself is not understood according to scripture, hence what you said here was true.

 

[mrhappy3]

MY UNDERSTANDING THUS FAR IS THIS.

There is no distinction of the personal and public tongues in scripture - that is speculation on our part. The gifts of the Spirit lists DIVERSE tongues. We know of course that we can speak in a private tongue NOT to be interpreted. Scripture does not really expound much on this apart from what Paul mentions here and there.

The tongues in Acts were languages, the miracle was in the HEARING and NOT in the speaking. Apart from that we simply don't know.

Tongues are NOT a doorway into the other gifts - that's what Kenneth Hagin taught - and that again is speculation. Other people have moved in the gifts like DOWIE and he never spoke with tongues. Wigglesworth and Hagin himself had healing ministries BEFORE they ever spoke in tongues. OTHERS have been mightily effective for God without tongues. Other with tongues haven't.

The Baptism in the Spirit does not equate to speaking in tongues, BUT it is good to get them both together......why wouldn't anyone not want to pray in a heavenly tongue to the Lord ..as its great and edifying.

BUT, lets be honest with what scripture actually says.

YOU SHALL RECEIVE POWER ! ACTS 1v8

 

[Biblicist]

experientially i have noted ,at those times i have known ,in a meeting,the anointing or quickening to use an old but descriptively good phrase,of the holy Spirit and found myself praying strongly but quietly in tongues..i have broken out in extremely loud voice suddenly..in english.. but heres the thing..
not with directive or foretelling words save one time. but with abandoned declarations of praise and giving of glory to the lord Jesus or prayer..
one time only the words came out ..thus says the lord...lol i almost cringed when i heard those words,but what followed was dancing flashing lights and flashings in vision and the words of invitation into the Love of God..

Yes, even though I adhere to the Biblical prohibition that we are not permitted to corporately speak in tongues during a congregational meeting as every audible tongue must be accompanied by a translation; I still enjoy those times in our own local meetings where the thousand plus voices along with our exuberant band enables me to discretely praise the Lord in tongues, as I know that I will not be disturbing any visitors around me who are either cessationist or unsaved. Even though this is certainly something that I enjoy doing, I am mindful that this inherent gratification is not the result of any extra-special leading of the Holy Spirit but merely the outworking of someone who has the Holy Spirit within him/her.

I could always take the carnal approach as with Victoria Osteen who recently stated that when it comes to worship that “we’re doing it for ourselves”. Even though this horrendous statement has received a lot of justifiable flack over recent weeks, she is at least recognising that when many people are involved in corporate praise and worship that they are more often than not simply in it for themselves; where the Biblical prohibitions are seen as being “legalistic” restraints that limit their sense of self gratification. Of course, I appreciate that some people are unaware that such Biblical prohibitions even exist.