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The Twitter files

stevil

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Did you look at the link I posted earlier?

Dec 5, 2022, 13:25 PM by AG Schmitt
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. – Today, Missouri and Louisiana are releasing the full transcript for the deposition of Dr. Anthony Fauci, which was taken on November 23rd, 2022.
This is a different topic.
One is the accusation that Government tried to coerce social media companies to remove messaging on the Hunter Biden Laptop in order to improve Joe Biden's run for president

The other is this one, Government tried to get social media to align with Dr Fauci. For what reason?????????
This Fauci conspiracy is nonsense of course.
Dr Fauci isn't a politician. He isn't on the Democrats or Republicans side.
Dr Fauci was the lead science adviser in both Administrations as the foremost expert in contagious diseases and was on the official Covid Taskforce.

It makes complete sense that social media organisation who are looking to remove dangerous misinformation, would look to what Fauci is saying as the "official position" regarding the scientific position of Covid, I would assume they also look to WHO and CDC as authorities also.

Personally I think it shows that these social media organisations were acting with high integrity , that they were looking to the official authorities in science with regards to determining what is truth vs what is dangerous misinformation.
It would be poor integrity if instead they were looking to Trump, Pence, Biden or Harris for the official information.


I have absolutely no problems with a social media company basing scientific facts and public safety decisions off the official authorities.

I find it very weird that some people see this as nefarious. Very weird.

Ultimately the social media companies can look to whomever they want, it's their decision. But it is great that they look to high ranking and well respected and highly qualified scientists.
 
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probinson

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This is a different topic.

It's not. The topic is government collusion with social media companies to censor speech. This specific lawsuit does not address the Hunter Biden Laptop, but it follows pretty much the same script. The Hunter Biden Laptop story was classified as "misinformation" and censored. Twitter removed posts talking about it and banned accounts that dared post anything about it. And then suddenly, just a few weeks ago, CBS News acted like this was a breaking story, where in reality it had simply been suppressed and censored. It's important to understand why that happened and who made those decisions.

Likewise, remember when it was taboo to talk about the theory that COVID may have escaped from a lab-leak? Just thinking that would get you suspended from social media. But now, it's a plausible theory. Time and again we see examples of yesterday's "misinformation" becoming today's facts. That's why this is important.

The other is this one, Government tried to get social media to align with Dr Fauci. For what reason?????????
This Fauci conspiracy is nonsense of course.
Not really. There are documented emails of Dr. Fauci corresponding about the Great Barrington Declaration with Francis Collins, stating that there needed to be a swift, public takedown of the GBD. These doctors were impugned as "fringe epidemiologists". Nothing could have been further from the truth. Did they collude with social media companies for this "takedown" and to what extent? These are important questions.

By the way, most of the world is now employing the principles in the GBD (focused protection) as they have come to the realization that sustained social disruptions have consequences. Perhaps if there had been an open scientific discussion instead of a "takedown" of a different set of ideas we could have avoided some of those consequences. But unfortunately, there are too many people who think Dr. Fauci hung the moon and should be able to dictate what can and cannot be said. Foolishness gone to seed.

Dr Fauci isn't a politician. He isn't on the Democrats or Republicans side.
Dr Fauci was the lead science adviser in both Administrations as the foremost expert in contagious diseases and was on the official Covid Taskforce.

You misspelled lead bureaucrat. And if you read his deposition, he has a terrible memory. He "can't recall" anything it would seem. Someone should test that guy for amnesia.

It makes complete sense that social media organisation who are looking to remove dangerous misinformation, would look to what Fauci is saying as the "official position" regarding the scientific position of Covid, I would assume they also look to WHO and CDC as authorities also.

Doctors who disagreed with Dr. Fauci and the official narrative were censored and banned from social media. Contrary to what you've been told, Dr. Fauci does not represent science, and disagreeing with his positions is not "misinformation". There were plenty of dissenting voices from accredited doctors. But they could not speak out, since the narrative had coalesced around what Dr. Fauci deemed to be the correct information. In hindsight, it's laughable.

Personally I think it shows that these social media organisations were acting with high integrity , that they were looking to the official authorities in science with regards to determining what is truth vs what is dangerous misinformation.
Yikes. It's disturbing that you're willing to grant a single person with the authority to determine what is and is not "misinformation". That's not how science works. That's how authoritarian regimes are born, by regulating what can and cannot be said. An open discussion of various ideas and opinions was warranted and is HOW. SCIENCE. WORKS, not the creation of a fake "consensus" that never existed.

It would be poor integrity if instead they were looking to Trump, Pence, Biden or Harris for the official information.
But that's exactly how COVID boosters came to be authorized. Check out this timeline that shows the introduction of COVID boosters (which, by the way, resulted in the public resignation of the top two vaccine regulators at the FDA) was driven by politics, not science. Just look at the timing. Biden tells people, long before any studies were done, that they could get boosters by a certain date. And then just like magic, the FDA falls in line (after the top two vaccine regulators resigned in protest) and authorizes them just in time for when Biden said they'd be available. Nifty coincidence, I suppose. Probably nothing on official government letterhead though, so I'm sure it's just a "conspiracy".


I have absolutely no problems with a social media company basing scientific facts and public safety decisions off the official authorities.

You presuppose that the "official authorities" are only looking out for your best interest and that "scientific facts" are indisputable. That is, of course, nonsense.

I find it very weird that some people see this as nefarious. Very weird.

I find it very weird that some people implicitly trust everything their government says and does unless they can find evidence of wrongdoing on official government letterhead. Very weird indeed.

Ultimately the social media companies can look to whomever they want, it's their decision. But it is great that they look to high ranking and well respected and highly qualified scientists.

You're deluding yourself if you think there was or is a consensus. Did you know that the WHO NEVER recommended masking toddlers, but the CDC did (based on absolutely no data). Yet if you dared to state that masking toddlers in daycare was foolish theater unsupported by science that would likely result in language learning loss, you risked being banned for posting "misinformation". I'm not really sure people really understand what that word means.

Let's see where Dr. Fauci goes from here. Consulting for Pfizer? Moderna? The revolving door is real. Just ask Scott Gottlieb, once commissioner of the FDA, now enjoying a cushy job on the Pfizer board. Regulatory capture is a very real concern. Regulating what can and can not be stated is a very real concern.
 
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probinson

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The link was copied directly from the Missouri Attorney General's website. If you go to urldefense.com, it says this:

Screenshot 2022-12-08 at 6.58.21 PM.png


It would appear that the AG is using this service to "check that websites are safe to visit with no malware".

You can visit the AG website directly, if you prefer, but the link will still go through urldefense.com


Nothing shady about it.
 
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stevil

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It's not. The topic is government collusion with social media companies to censor speech.
The government don't own these social media platforms, but they are free to communicate with the owners.
The social media platforms aren't an anything goes environment, they choose to moderate based on various criteria
There is nothing to say that the social media platforms can't listen to what governments or organisations such as WHO or CDC have to say, and can't factor that into their decisions for moderation.

This specific lawsuit does not address the Hunter Biden Laptop, but it follows pretty much the same script.
It is quite different.
Noone is dying due to Laptop misinformation, and it isn't a congaious deadly disease and isn't something the WHO, CDC or Dr Faucci are experts on.
But, as a complicating factor, this popped up just a few short weeks prior to the general election. The timing was suspicious and the circumstances were suspicious and people hadn't had enough time to fully investigate it.

The Hunter Biden Laptop story was classified as "misinformation" and censored.
By who?
Government or by the social media owners?
Twitter removed posts talking about it and banned accounts that dared post anything about it. And then suddenly, just a few weeks ago, CBS News acted like this was a breaking story, where in reality it had simply been suppressed and censored. It's important to understand why that happened and who made those decisions.
Huh, are you talking about investigating Twitter's moderation practices or investigating CBS?

Likewise, remember when it was taboo to talk about the theory that COVID may have escaped from a lab-leak? Just thinking that would get you suspended from social media. But now, it's a plausible theory. Time and again we see examples of yesterday's "misinformation" becoming today's facts. That's why this is important.
It's always been a possibility. But Trump and his guys were saying it was definitely a lab leak. I think the details are getting quite confused here.


Not really. There are documented emails of Dr. Fauci corresponding about the Great Barrington Declaration with Francis Collins, stating that there needed to be a swift, public takedown of the GBD. These doctors were impugned as "fringe epidemiologists". Nothing could have been further from the truth. Did they collude with social media companies for this "takedown" and to what extent? These are important questions.
I don't see any problem here. Dr Fauci was in charge of coming up with the official response to Covid (from a science perspective)
There was lots of conflicting information being spread around by every man and his dog that had an opinion at the time.
If Fauci made it clear to social media platforms what the official line was, then I have no problems with that.
If the social media platforms decided to take down information that was contradictory to that, then that is their right.

By the way, most of the world is now employing the principles in the GBD (focused protection) as they have come to the realization that sustained social disruptions have consequences.
Noone was ever considering lockdows forever. Of course now that vaccinations and medication is available, most countries have opened up.

Perhaps if there had been an open scientific discussion instead of a "takedown" of a different set of ideas we could have avoided some of those consequences.
I'm sure many scientist were involved in the official scientific position. It wasn't just Fauci.

But unfortunately, there are too many people who think Dr. Fauci hung the moon and should be able to dictate what can and cannot be said. Foolishness gone to seed.
Dr Fauci was not controlling or coercing the social media platforms. He was merely presenting the official scientific stance.
If they choose to follow him and moderate the conflicting stuff, then that was the social media platform's decision

Doctors who disagreed with Dr. Fauci and the official narrative were censored and banned from social media.
Good, but Dr Fauci had no control over that. He did not decide who would be moderated and who would not. If you have issues with moderation then take that up with Twitter and youtube and whoever.
Contrary to what you've been told, Dr. Fauci does not represent science, and disagreeing with his positions is not "misinformation".
Oh boy.
Yikes. It's disturbing that you're willing to grant a single person with the authority to determine what is and is not "misinformation".
Only this isn't the case.
Fauci had a clear job to do, and he did it, in collaboration with the scientific community.
Fauci had no authority over the social media platforms. Moderation was not something Fauci had control over.

I find it very weird that some people implicitly trust everything their government says and does unless they can find evidence of wrongdoing on official government letterhead. Very weird indeed.
It really is important to have evidence, rather than to simply parrot unsupported nonsense being broadcast by Opinion show hosts.
 
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KCfromNC

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If there were genuinely a smoking gun, I'm sure Giuliani would have publicized that to the hilt as he had full access and isn't shy
Maybe 4 seasons landscaping had another press conference booked that day?
 
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KCfromNC

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What evidence is there? We'll find out as the trial progresses
Weird to answer a post asking what the evidence is with a post asking what the evidence is.
Kinda leads one to think that no one really know what, if any, evidence there is.
 
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stevil

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Weird to answer a post asking what the evidence is with a post asking what the evidence is.
Kinda leads one to think that no one really know what, if any, evidence there is.
And it is weird not having any evidence at all but still going to internet forums and spreading unsupported allegations.
 
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DaisyDay

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And it is weird not having any evidence at all but still going to internet forums and spreading unsupported allegations.
Weird, but all too common.
 
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stevil

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Let the head of Facebook tell you himself.
I watched that.
Didn't learn anything new.
Facts
  • FBI warned Facebook that there might be some Russian disinformation doing the rounds in the lead up to the presidential election
  • Facebook saw the Hunter Biden Laptop story and were immediately suspicious. (as everyone was)
  • Facebook's moderation team collaborated amongst themselves to determine if the story was real or fake and in the meantime tweaked the distribution factor so that it was distributed less, rather than banning it.
  • Zuckerburg and Rogan agree that it is difficult to determine what is true or propaganda especially early on as news breaks and agrees there is risk of propaganda coming up last minute to manipulate election outcomes and hence difficult for companies like Facebook to get moderation correct at the time when not a lot is known initially.
  • There was no mention of any government pressure on Facebook.
  • FBI did not specifically ask, or tell Facebook to stop the Hunter Biden laptop story
 
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Aldebaran

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What exactly will we know? That there are salacious photos? We knew that. That HB was an addict? We knew that. That HB made money off his family name? We knew that. If there were genuinely a smoking gun, I'm sure Giuliani would have publicized that to the hilt as he had full access and isn't shy, so all we are left with is speculation and innuendo.
We'll know, based partly on the laptop's contents, and partly based on whatever else is revealed in future investigations, what involvement his father joe has had in his financial dealings, and what kinds of influence it has had in how joe has conducted himself in office. The more than hundred billion dollars that has already gone to Ukraine with no accountability being one of them. Joe's denial of the border crisis and refusal to even address the issue being another.
 
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Aldebaran

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I watched that.
Didn't learn anything new.
Facts
  • FBI warned Facebook that there might be some Russian disinformation doing the rounds in the lead up to the presidential election
  • Facebook saw the Hunter Biden Laptop story and were immediately suspicious. (as everyone was)
  • Facebook's moderation team collaborated amongst themselves to determine if the story was real or fake and in the meantime tweaked the distribution factor so that it was distributed less, rather than banning it.
  • Zuckerburg and Rogan agree that it is difficult to determine what is true or propaganda especially early on as news breaks and agrees there is risk of propaganda coming up last minute to manipulate election outcomes and hence difficult for companies like Facebook to get moderation correct at the time when not a lot is known initially.
  • There was no mention of any government pressure on Facebook.
  • FBI did not specifically ask, or tell Facebook to stop the Hunter Biden laptop story
Let me know when you're going to post some facts.
 
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Aldebaran

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Well, are you going to post some alternate facts?
That's what you just did! ^_^
That's why I said to let me know when you post facts.
 
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DaisyDay

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We'll know, based partly on the laptop's contents, and partly based on whatever else is revealed in future investigations, what involvement his father joe has had in his financial dealings, and what kinds of influence it has had in how joe has conducted himself in office. The more than hundred billion dollars that has already gone to Ukraine with no accountability being one of them.
What we are likely to learn is that there was none. Doesn't all foreign aid have to be appropriated by Congress? Don't we already know what the contents of the "laptop" are as Giuliani had possession for gosh, years now? Sounds like a big ole nothingburger with relish on top.

Joe's denial of the border crisis and refusal to even address the issue being another.
What would this have to do with the "laptop" on Twitter?
 
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Aldebaran

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What we are likely to learn is that there was none. Doesn't all foreign aid have to be appropriated by Congress? Don't we already know what the contents of the "laptop" are as Giuliani had possession for gosh, years now? Sounds like a big ole nothingburger with relish on top.

What would this have to do with the "laptop" on Twitter?
It addresses your post, which was #99.
 
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DaisyDay

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It addresses your post, which was #99.
What addresses my point in post #99?

Why would having the contents of the "laptop" dumped on Twitter matter at all when Giuliani and other operatives already have full access, which they have had for years now, in terms of anything legal? It seems like the primary purpose is harassment of the Biden family.
 
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Aldebaran

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Be quite happy for you to challenge any of those facts I listed. I'll listen.
Since none of them are "facts", there's nothing to challenge.
 
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