The True Sabbath

[keltoi]

It is not agreed on when that prophecy in Mat 24:20 was fulfilled, because there are a number of theories, even tho most preachers seem to only preach their favorite and not give credence to the others. However, it is agreed that this was written to Jewish Christians. There is no command to keep the sabbath in that verse. To assume so is an argument from silence. In short, there is no command from either Jesus OR his disciples for Christians to keep the sabbath. To create such a command from a Scripture like this which contains no such command, is treading on dangerous ground.

It is dangerous only if you consider NT and psot NT believers not to be Gods people as the Hebrews of the OT were.

 

[keltoi]

Taken From: http://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath_questions.asp
The calendar has not been changed so as to confuse the days of the week. We can be positive that our seventh day is the same day Jesus observed when He was here. Pope Gregory XIII did make a calendar change in 1582, but it did not interfere with the weekly cycle. Our present Gregorian calendar was named after him when he made that small change in 1582.

What did Pope Gregory do to the calendar? Before 1582 the Julian calendar had been in effect, instituted by Julius Ceasar about 46 B.C. and named after him. But the Julian calendar had calculated the length of the year as 365 1/4 days, and the year is actually eleven minutes less than 365 1/4 days. Those eleven minutes accumulated, and by 1582 the numbering of the calendar was ten days out of harmony with the solar system. Gregory simply dropped those ten days out of the numbering of the calendar. It was Thursday, October 4, 1582, and the next day, Friday, should have been October 5. But Gregory made it October 15 instead, dropping exactly ten days to bring the calendar back into harmony with the heavenly bodies.

Were the days of the week confused? No. Friday still followed Thursday, and Saturday still followed Friday. The same seventh day remained, and the weekly cycle was not disturbed in the least. When we keep the seventh day on Saturday, we are observing the same day Jesus kept, and He did it every week according to Luke 4:16.

However the Hebrew Calender is different to the Julain and Gregorian

 

[TempleBuilder]

Aren't there some commands in the OT that are still followed despite them not being stated in the NT?

Mat. 24.20: "Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath."

Since this would be after his crucifixion, it seems he did not anticipate that the Sabbath was to be abolished by his work.

 

[keltoi]

God desires mercy not sacrifice. some people honor the sabbeth on other days. if you work all week and you have tuesday off; then honor tuesday as your sabbeth day, then you have still have obeyed. some churches have extra services for those people.

Spot on.

 

[keltoi]

Ha ha ha! The above does not "miss the mark", as you say.

First of all, no where does the Bible say that Sunday is the Lord's Day. If Sunday is the day chosen by "the church" so be it. However, I choose every day as a day of worship, because THE BIBLE tells me to. Beyond that, yes, Saturday is the Sabbath day of REST. I choose to gather with other brothers and sisters in Christ on the Sabbath, so that we can spend time together in the Lord on that Day of Rest, praying, learning, praising Him, and reflecting on the week. Not to mention I work Sunday through Friday, and I won't work on Saturday for obvious reasons. Saturday is really the only day I CAN go to church.

1st the words Saturday and Sunday are not biblical or even Hebrew/Aramaic so this line of though based on words to match numbered days is fundamentally flawed

 

[keltoi]

Um... this is what I am gathering from this whole thread...

Saturday is the Sabbath God created, as the Bible says. Is there anything WRONG with gathering with brothers and sisters in Christ on a day set aside by man in addition to observing the Sabbath of the Commandments? Of course not! But that doesn't take Sabbath-hood away from Saturday, nor does it make Sunday the Sabbath day of rest.

It seems to me that most of these arguments don't actually center around "what day is the Sabbath?", but more around, "What day do you go to church?", which isn't really the question at hand.

This may seem picky but if you were born on a Monday the wouldn't your Sabbath be a Sunday? Orif you started you 1st job on a wednesday (having been totalloy lazy before this and never having done anything for yourself or anyone else ever before) then wouldn't your Sabbath be a Tuesday?

This whole debate (and yes I know I am quoting old stuff but I am only new here so please bear with me) is about western days on a calendar that has been modified multiple times and is not even based on the original Hebrew calendar at all, let alone knowing what day on the modern western worlds calendar that God created the heavans and the earth and what day on the modern western calender he had a rest.

 

[Iosias]

We are to have 1 day in seven set apart to worship God.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

We are to have 1 day in seven set apart to worship God.

1 thes 5:17 worship without ceasing.

worship is the same word in John 4:24 in the greek

 

[Iosias]

1 thes 5:17 worship without ceasing.

1Th 5:17 "Pray without ceasing."

G4336
προσεύχομαι
proseuchomai
pros-yoo'-khom-ahee
From G4314 and G2172; to pray to God, that is, supplicate, worship: - pray (X earnestly, for), make prayer.

 

[tulipbee]

This whole debate (and yes I know I am quoting old stuff but I am only new here so please bear with me) is about western days on a calendar that has been modified multiple times and is not even based on the original Hebrew calendar at all, let alone knowing what day on the modern western worlds calendar that God created the heavans and the earth and what day on the modern western calender he had a rest.

I've been told that the records of counting each Saturday are accurate. I doubt it but it can be. In other words, the world counted each Saturday and it has always been a Saturday or every seven days but maybe not at the ends of our calenders. What the Sabbatarians missed in the Bible and don't have a solution for the airline travelers that fly into the next day or time zones or the Space dudes who stay in the Space station. What day are they living on? I won't be long before we have a stations on the moon or Mars. Sabbatarians ran out of answers on this but still continues to follow the rules of their church/building/gatherings and under the spells of their pastors/leaders/god. So let them worship on any day they would like and miss out on the glorious Christian celebrations of the Lord's Day. This is a Christian Sabbath, the Lord's Day as the Lord himself describes after the death of His very own Son.

Tulipbee

 

[A Brother In Christ]

1Th 5:17 "Pray without ceasing."

G4336
προσεύχομαι
proseuchomai
pros-yoo'-khom-ahee
From G4314 and G2172; to pray to God, that is, supplicate, worship: - pray (X earnestly, for), make prayer.

8 forms of prayer..communication with God

prayer is a generic term

 

[keltoi]

I've been told that the records of counting each Saturday are accurate. I doubt it but it can be. In other words, the world counted each Saturday and it has always been a Saturday or every seven days but maybe not at the ends of our calenders. What the Sabbatarians missed in the Bible and don't have a solution for the airline travelers that fly into the next day or time zones or the Space dudes who stay in the Space station. What day are they living on? I won't be long before we have a stations on the moon or Mars. Sabbatarians ran out of answers on this but still continues to follow the rules of their church/building/gatherings and under the spells of their pastors/leaders/god. So let them worship on any day they would like and miss out on the glorious Christian celebrations of the Lord's Day. This is a Christian Sabbath, the Lord's Day as the Lord himself describes after the death of His very own Son.

Tulipbee

Well said.

 

[Hismessenger]

Jesus is the sabbath.

The day of the old testament was only a foreshadow of Christ.

Jhn 1:17For the law was given by Moses, [but] grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Hbr 8:5Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Hbr 9:9Which [was] a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

Hbr 10:1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [and] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Hismessenger

 

[buzuxi02]

The keeping of Sabbath as a neccesity is a complete joke, only meant for the type of simpletons that can easily be seduced into any kind of belief.

First off, both the gregorian and julian calendar which it replaced is chronologically off. When the gregorian calendar was adopted a few hundred years ago, it dropped 10 days. These 10 days is the amount accrued since Julius Caesar instated his calendar. The Julian calendar is off by about 12 minutes (approx) per year . Thus today in 2007 the julian calendar is 13 days ahead.
The gregorian calendar was introduced to correct this. So the gregorian calendar (business calendar) is more astronomically accurate, but it too loses about 15 (approx) seconds a year.

The original jewish lunar calendar is also off, and loses time much faster than the gregorian but not as fast as the julian. This is why the eastern churches holiday of Pascha (which calculate the equinox using the julian) and the jewish passover(whose calendar is more similar to the julian than our business calendar) tend to coincide, while the western Easter tends to be before the jewish passover.

What the sabbath worshippers fail to realize, since they cannot even scratch the surface and lack common sense, is that the Sabbath of the bible was calculated using a lunar (not solar) calendar. This means Sabbath began at sundown not midnite. Whether they like it or not the Sabbath worshippers constantly "violate" the Sabbath by approximately 5 hours, add to that the inadequacy of our calendars of keeping perfect time , and as you can see the futility of being a sabbath-o-phile.

 

[Koey]

On the one hand I agree with you. Neither Jesus NOR his disciples found it necessary to repeat the Sabbath command in the New Testament. Those who do are making a command that neither Jesus nor the Apostles did, a very dangerous thing.

On the other hand, your reasoning is a little askew. The Saturday Sabbath is a weekly event, not an annual one. Saturday Sabbatarians do keep it from sunset to sunset, and for it to have been lost in time, it would have meant that every Jew in the entire world would have had to have woken up the same day and forgotten what day it was.

The best argument for its lack of necessity is Jesus and his disciples absolute silence on the topic. There is NO NT command for Sabbath, and that includes Sunday Sabbath for those who naively believe that is necessary too. On the other hand, we are free to choose a day to rest, following the principles of the OT law, and that would include either Saturday OR Sunday. Most Christians choose the day that most scholars agree was the day of Jesus' resurrection, not as a Sabbath, but as a memorial. It is, of course, according the overwhelming majority of Greek scholars' understanding of Romans 14, okay to rest on Sundays.