The True Sabbath

[tulipbee]

[
tulipee,

re: "The Lord's day is in the Bible and that day is the first day of the week."

Maybe so. But the Bible doesn’t identify it as such.

re: "The disciples gathered together to collect money on a celebrated day of Jesus. Why go to church on Saturday and then come back on Sunday to put money in the bucket?"

I’m not aware of any scripture that says that disciples gathered together to collect money on a celebrated day. What do you have in mind?

"Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come." (1 Cor 16:1-2)

Ps 118:22-26 prophecies the first day of the week!

"The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief corner stone. This is the Lord’s doing; It is marvelous in our eyes. This is the day which the Lord has made; Let us rejoice and be glad in it. O Lord, do save, we beseech You; O Lord, we beseech You, do send prosperity! Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord; We have blessed you from the house of the Lord. " (Psalm 118:22-26)

It is obvious that resurrection day, is the day the Lord Made.
Resurrection day is Sunday.
Sunday is the day the Lord made!
The first day (Sunday) is the Lord’s Day!

Tulipbee

 

[tulipbee]

~ N E V E R M I N D~ Saint Constantine!

107AD IGNATIUS: let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days of the week. (Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians, chp 9. Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, pg. 62-63.)
130AD BARNABAS: Moreover God says to the Jews, 'Your new moons and Sabbaths 1 cannot endure.' You see how he says, 'The present Sabbaths are not acceptable to me, but the Sabbath which I have made in which, when I have rested [heaven: Heb 4] from all things, I will make the beginning of the eighth day which is the beginning of another world.' Wherefore we Christians keep the eighth day for joy, on which also Jesus arose from the dead and when he appeared ascended into heaven. (15:8f, The Epistle of Barnabas, 100 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, pg. 147)
150AD JUSTIN: But Sunday is the day on which we hold our common assembly, because it is the first day of the week and Jesus our saviour on the same day rose from the dead. (First apology of Justin, Ch 68)
150AD JUSTIN: And on the day called Sunday there is a gathering together in the same place of all who live in a city or a rural district. ... We all make our assembly in common on the day of the Sun, since it is the first day, on which God changed the darkness and matter and made the world, and Jesus Christ our Savior arose from the dead on the same day. For they crucified him on the day before Saturn's day, and on the day after (which is the day of the Sun the appeared to his apostles and taught his disciples these things. (Apology, 1, 67:1-3, 7; First Apology, 145 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , Vol. 1, pg. 186)
190AD CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA: He does the commandment according to the Gospel and keeps the Lord's day, whenever he puts away an evil mind . . . glorifying the Lord's resurrection in himself. (Vii.xii.76.4)
200AD TERTULLIAN: Others . . . suppose that the sun is the god of the Christians, because it is well-known that we regard Sunday as a day of joy. (To the Nations 1: 133)
225 AD The Didascalia "The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the Holy Scriptures, and the oblation, because on the first day of the week our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2).
300AD EUSEBIUS: [The Ebionites] were accustomed to observe the Sabbath and other Jewish customs but on the Lord's days to celebrate the same practices as we in remembrance of the resurrection of the Savior. (Church History Ill.xxvii.5)
300 AD Eusebius of Caesarea "The day of his [Christ's] light . . . was the day of his resurrection from the dead, which they say, as being the one and only truly holy day and the Lord's day (Proof of the Gospel 4:16:186).
350 AD APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTIONS: Be not careless of yourselves, neither deprive your Saviour of His own members, neither divide His body nor disperse His members, neither prefer the occasions of this life to the word of God; but assemble yourselves together every day, morning and evening, singing psalms and praying in the Lord's house: in the morning saying the sixty-second Psalm, and in the evening the hundred and fortieth, but principally on the Sabbath-day. And on the day of our Lord's resurrection, which is the Lord's day, meet more diligently, sending praise to God that made the universe by Jesus, and sent Him to us, and condescended to let Him suffer, and raised Him from the dead. Otherwise what apology will he make to God who does not assemble on that day to hear the saving word concerning the resurrection, on which we pray thrice standing in memory of Him who arose in three days, in which is performed the reading of the prophets, the preaching of the Gospel, the oblation of the sacrifice, the gift of the holy food? (Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, book 2)
350 AD APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTIONS: Do you therefore fast, and ask your petitions of God. We enjoin you to fast every fourth day of the week, and every day of the preparation, and the surplusage of your fast bestow upon the needy; every Sabbath-day excepting one, and every Lord's day, hold your solemn assemblies, and rejoice: for he will be guilty of sin who fasts on the Lord's day, being the day of the resurrection, or during the time of Pentecost, or, in general, who is sad on a festival day to the Lord For on them we ought to rejoice, and not to mourn. (Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, book 5)
350 AD APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTIONS "Which Days of the Week We are to Fast, and Which Not, and for What Reasons: But let not your fasts be with the hypocrites; for they fast on the second and fifth days of the week. But do you either fast the entire five days, or on the fourth day of the week, and on the day of the Preparation, because on the fourth day the condemnation went out against the Lord, Judas then promising to betray Him for money; and you must fast on the day of the Preparation, because on that day the Lord suffered the death of the cross under Pontius Pilate. But keep the Sabbath, and the Lord's day festival; because the former is the memorial of the creation, and the latter of the resurrection. But there is one only Sabbath to be observed by you in the whole year, which is that of our Lord's burial, on which men ought to keep a fast, but not a festival. For inasmuch as the Creator was then under the earth, the sorrow for Him is more forcible than the joy for the creation; for the Creator is more honourable by nature and dignity than His own creatures." (Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, book 7)
350 AD APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTIONS "How We Ought to Assemble Together, and to Celebrate the Festival Day of Our Saviour's Resurrection. On the day of the resurrection of the Lord, that is, the Lord's day, assemble yourselves together, without fail, giving thanks to God, and praising Him for those mercies God has bestowed upon you through Christ, and has delivered you from ignorance, error, and bondage, that your sacrifice may be unspotted, and acceptable to God, who has said concerning His universal Church: "In every place shall incense and a pure sacrifice be offered unto me; for I am a great King, saith the Lord Almighty, and my name is wonderful among the heathen." (Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, book 7)
400 AD The Apostolic Constitutions "And on the day of our Lord's resurrection, which is the Lord's day, meet more diligently, sending praise to God that made the universe by Jesus, and sent him to us, and condescended to let him suffer, and raised him from the dead. " (Apostolic Constitutions 2:7:60).

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Was, is and always will be Saturday. Regardless of what anyone else says. I go to church on Saturday because the church is true to the Holy Word. How has it come that many of our christian churches proclaim Sunday as the day of Sabbath? It is false and does not match with what the bible says. We have one man to thank for the changing of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, and he had no God given right to. In the early parts of the fourth century Constantine issued a decree, declaring Sunday a festival all over the Roman Empire. ever since, this has stuck in the minds of millions as the day we should worship on. Saturday is the true day because that is the day God finished his work on creating the universe, which was Saturday, the seventh day.

romans 14:5-6

1 thes 5:17 worship without ceasing

col 2:16-17

acts 15:24-29

matt 12:2-8

 

[rstrats]

tulipee,

re: ""Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come." (1 Cor 16:1-2)

Your reference merely says that everyone should "put aside and save" on the first day of the week. The New Swedish and Norwegian Bibles read: "At home by himself." The Wemouth reads: "Let each of you put on one side and store up at his home". Ballantine’s Translation reads: "Let each of you lay up at home". The Syriac, on this passage reads: "Let every one of you lay aside and preserve at home". And the New Catholic Edition of the Bible reads: ".......let each one of you put aside at home and lay up whatever he has a mind to". This verse says nothing about gathering together on the first day of the week.

re: "This is the day which the Lord has made; Let us rejoice and be glad in it."

I would say that the Lord has made everyday. When you get up every morning, you should great the new day with verse 24.


re: "It is obvious that resurrection day, is the day the Lord Made."

As well as all other days.

re: "Resurrection day is Sunday."

I am not aware of any indisputable scripture that says that the resurrection occurred on the first day of the week. What do you have in mind?

 

[tulipbee]

tulipbee,

r...I am not aware of any indisputable scripture that says that the resurrection occurred on the first day of the week. What do you have in mind?

We can debate on this and it would go on forever. I've been there and done that and neither side could make it clear on the laws without knowing why God made the Laws. I would like to move towards how the Law was used in the Old Testament and how the Laws is applied to the New Testament regarding to the forum's topic "the True Sabbath".

-Some say the seventh day is the true Sabbath.
-Some say Sunday is the true Sabbath.
-Some say Sabbath is everyday.
-Some say Sabbath is any day you chose but do it once a week.
-Some say Sabbath don't apply anymore.

I'm convinced we're missing the big picture that the Law has a lot to do with Jesus and how it applies today.
That's what is on my mind

Tulipbee

 

[A Brother In Christ]

romans 14:5-6

1 thes 5:17 worship without ceasing

col 2:16-17

acts 15:24-29

matt 12:2-8

Gal 2:21.... for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[Friendlyneighbor101]

I Was raised that the Sabbath day is the 7th day because it was when God rested after , he created the earth......

And the Sabbath day would be .........drumbroll......Saturday

 

[A Brother In Christ]

romans 14:5-6

1 thes 5:17 worship without ceasing

col 2:16-17

acts 15:24-29

matt 12:2-8

how do you deal with these verses

 

[tulipbee]

how do you deal with these verses

Opps, gotta run. How about posting the quotes here for those who need to run. What does it say?

Tulipbee

 

[A Brother In Christ]

romans 14:5-6

1 thes 5:17 worship without ceasing

col 2:16-17

acts 15:24-29

matt 12:2-8

 

[youdahman]

Keep in mind everyone, that when Jesus presented the truth to the pharisees and the jewish nation, with the miracles and everything, even they were not convinced of the truth, and still dwelled in false doctrines and the commandments of men and persecuted Christ.

How true is it in our day when even if we were presented with the truth, that we still hold on into our preconceived beliefs.

Can you imagine how Paul felt after persecuting christians and believing so vigorously in what he believed, that when after meeting Jesus on the road to Damascus, that everything he believed was a lie?

It does not matter who is right or wrong in this debate over the sabbath. All that matters is that we each present the truths according to what we believe, and let each individual make up thier own minds whether they believe should continue in false doctrines or truth.

As for me, i'll keep the Seventh Day Sabbath that was instituted on the 7th day of creation, and if anyone asks why i keep Saturday as the sabbath day, i'll tell them

"He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."

And to clarify, the bible tells us what day is the Lord's Day...

Isaiah 58:13
If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

 

[Koey]

Walk as he walked? Does that mean I should be circumcised, go to synagogue or temple, be celibate, sell my car and walk everywhere, grow a beard, gather 12 disciples, and die on a cross somewhere? I think you take the scripture out of context and add to it your own ideas. There is nothing about the Saturday Sabbath in that quote at all, just as there is nothing about circumcision, celibacy, walking, growing beards, and so on.

In the context, Jesus did say to obey his commandments, meaning to love God and neighbor.

Oh, and yes he did give one commandment regarding rest. The only commandment Jesus gave regarding rest in the entire New Testament, is when he said, Come to me all you who are weary and heavily laden and I will give you rest.

Nowhere does he or the apostles command Saturday OR Sunday. Nowhere! Now adding to the commands of Christ an OT command is pretty dangerous. Why stop at one? Why not all 600+ commands from the OT. That would mean that if you don't have a fenced roof, you're in trouble. Or hey, if you have mold in your house, you'd better burn it down. And hey, there are how many rules that demand the death penalty? I hope you won't be stupid enough to become a mass murderer, thinking you are doing the Lord's punishment, or some such idiotic thing.

Christians live by the principles of the OT law, not the letter. The 10 Commandments are pretty narrow if we only want to look at the letter. For instance, the letter of adultery is pretty limited. The principle is broader than marital infidelity alone and includes fornication, homosexuality, inappropriate behavior with animals, adultery, pedophilia, inappropriate contentography, and a host of other things. For instance the letter of murder is pretty limited. The principle is broader as Jesus explained in the Sermon on the Mount and includes verbal abuse and hatred. The letter of Saturday Sabbathing is NOT required in the NT ANYWHERE. Nowhere! The principle applies to bodily rest, worship, time devoted to God, etc. Paul teaches that we have liberty to pick the day and not to let anyone judge us that regard.

No, Saturday is YOUR Sabbath. It is no longer required for the Church. Neither Jesus nor the apostles required it, so it is YOUR requirement!

I prefer to obey Jesus and his apostles thank you.

 

[youdahman]

Walk as he walked? Does that mean I should be circumcised, go to synagogue or temple, be celibate, sell my car and walk everywhere, grow a beard, gather 12 disciples, and die on a cross somewhere? I think you take the scripture out of context and add to it your own ideas. There is nothing about the Saturday Sabbath in that quote at all, just as there is nothing about circumcision, celibacy, walking, growing beards, and so on.

And when Jesus asks me in heaven, why did i keep the Seventh day sabbath, i'll tell him, Because you did too Lord.

Also, Jesus did say to take up our cross and follow him. Not literally like he did, but he did say take up our cross and follow him.

Also, the bible already tells us circumcision profits nothing, adn that was part of the ceremonial law that was done away with at teh cross, of course you knew this right? Right?

Funny how you said be celibate when the bible already tells us that we should multiply.

I don't understand the mentality that the 10 commandments are still binding, and yet we don't have to keep the 4th one

In the context, Jesus did say to obey his commandments, meaning to love God and neighbor.

And how do you love God and our neighbors? Those 2 concepts, loving GOd and loving our neighbors , is the foundation of the law and the prophets.

You love God by not having any other gods before him, you love him by not using his name in Vain, you love him by keeping the sabbath holy.

Keep in mind those two commandments that JEsus gave was FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT. Jesus also said, IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. So to love God is to keep his commandments as well, which of course would include the 4th commandment, seeing as how many places in the bible say that he BLESSED AND SANCTIFIED THE SABBATH DAY and you CANNOT find one bible text saying God or Christ transfered the solemnity of the sabbath to sunday.

Oh, and yes he did give one commandment regarding rest. The only commandment Jesus gave regarding rest in the entire New Testament, is when he said, Come to me all you who are weary and heavily laden and I will give you rest.

Nowhere does he or the apostles command Saturday OR Sunday. Nowhere! Now adding to the commands of Christ an OT command is pretty dangerous. Why stop at one? Why not all 600+ commands from the OT. That would mean that if you don't have a fenced roof, you're in trouble. Or hey, if you have mold in your house, you'd better burn it down. And hey, there are how many rules that demand the death penalty? I hope you won't be stupid enough to become a mass murderer, thinking you are doing the Lord's punishment, or some such idiotic thing.

No one's adding anything, i'm asserting what God wrote with his hand on Mt. Sanai, REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT HOLY.

Why do you keep mentioning the many laws that moses wrote? They were done away with.

The 10 commandments are different from the ceremonial laws of moses, that is why the 2 stone tablets was placed INSIDE the ark of the covenant while the ceremonial laws written on paper left outside.

Christians live by the principles of the OT law, not the letter. The 10 Commandments are pretty narrow if we only want to look at the letter. For instance, the letter of adultery is pretty limited. The principle is broader than marital infidelity alone and includes fornication, homosexuality, inappropriate behavior with animals, adultery, pedophilia, inappropriate contentography, and a host of other things. For instance the letter of murder is pretty limited. The principle is broader as Jesus explained in the Sermon on the Mount and includes verbal abuse and hatred. The letter of Saturday Sabbathing is NOT required in the NT ANYWHERE. Nowhere! The principle applies to bodily rest, worship, time devoted to God, etc. Paul teaches that we have liberty to pick the day and not to let anyone judge us that regard.

No, Saturday is YOUR Sabbath. It is no longer required for the Church. Neither Jesus nor the apostles required it, so it is YOUR requirement!

I prefer to obey Jesus and his apostles thank you.

I think you are mistaken what it means to keep the sabbath day. We are to keep it holy, but not the way the pharisees did it during CHrist time. That is why Christ used the example of the donkey fallen in the pit, that we are to DO GOOD ON THE SABBATH. Not do away with teh sabbath, make the sabbath on sunday, make the sabbath everyday etc etc etc.

You said that neither Jesus or the apostles required us to keep the sabbath, and yet Jesus said to keep my commandments?

Doesn't 1 John say, " he that saith i know him and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." So apparently the apostles that that we should keep the commandments, which included the 10 commandments, which included the 4th one that says Remember hte sabbath day to keep it holy.

You said that saturday was my sabbath, it was also Paul's sabbath, John's sabbath, heck, all the apostles sabbaths, and this is also after Christ death.

Didn't i give Isaiah 58:13 that says that GOD HIMSELF SAID THAT THE SEVENTH DAY SABBATH WAS HIS HOLY DAY.

Again i'll give Revelation 14:12 in reference to the endtime people that are saved.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

According to you, however, the text should read

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God except the seventh day sabbath, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[Peter]

"In the early part of the fourth century the emperor Constantine issued a decree making Sunday a public festival throught the empire..." (Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, p.53)

It would seem that the op has learned their history well, quoting Ms. White almost word for word. But does this quote, which is accurate, mean that Christians had worshipped on a day other than Sunday before that?

Here's a little story to put my point across.

A ship's first mate is caught drunk while on duty. The mate begs the captain not to record it in the ship's log. The captain responds that if it's true, it must go in the log. The next day, at the end of his shift, while filling out the ship's log, the first mate wrote, "Today the captain was sober."

While the statement was true, it insinuated something far different.

But what about scripture? Does Colosians 2:16-17 say what sabbatarians say it does?

"So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths..."

If this word "sabbaths" are festal sabbaths as the sabbatarians claim, then why does Paul include festivals (a festal sabbath) and new moons (festal sabbaths)? This would make the text say "...or regarding sabbaths, sabbaths or sabbaths."

As Matthew Gallatin, a former Seventh Day Adventist, points out, there is a progression here. Paul deals with festivals (yearly), new moons (monthly) and then sabbaths (weekly), a natural progression of time.

Even so, look at the festivals Paul mentions. What are they? Look at Levitcus 23:3. What is the first "appointed feasts" (v.2)? The weekly sabbath (v.3).

But what about Ms. White's "historic claim? Was Constantine responsible for "changing" the sabbath?

"...they who were under the older dispensation came into a new hope, no longer keeping the Sabbath, but living in observance of the Lord's day."
(St. Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians, chapter IX, AD 107)

Notice that Ignatius, a disciple of the apostles, speaks of this in a past tense.

And there are other winesses too.

Justin Martyr (100-165) "Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly..." (Justin Martyr, The First Apology,chapter LXVII)

From AD 90! "On the Lord's own day gather together and break bread and give thanks." (Didache,14:1)

"Let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's day...the resurrection day..." (Ignatius, chapter IX)

"we keep...the day...on which Jesus rose again from the dead." (Epistle of Barnabas, chapter XV, AD 130)

And on and on. Constantine changed nothing other than Roman law. The Church had already been observing Sunday worship before the apostles died.

Again, quoting Galatin, "there is not a single historical text that speaks of Christians observing the Sabbath as their primary day of worship." (Matthew Gallatin, Why We Worship on Sunday, page 10)

Did Constantine issue this decree? Yes. Did it change Christian worship? No! It only changed Roman civil law.

(Information for this response was taken from Matthew Gallatin's essay, Why We Worship On Sunday, Concilliar Press, Ben Lomand, CA.)

Copies can be obtained on line at www.conciliarpress.com , by mail at
Conciliar Press
PO Box 76
Ben Lomand, CA 95005-0076

or by calling 1-800-967-7377

The Reader Peter

 

[rstrats]

Peter,


re: "Does Colosians 2:16-17 say what sabbatarians say it does? - ‘So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths...’"

What do non-Sabbatarians think that it says?

 

[Peter]

Peter,


re: "Does Colosians 2:16-17 say what sabbatarians say it does? - ‘So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths...’"

What do non-Sabbatarians think that it says?

Non-Sabbatarians hold that "these are mere shadows of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

The Reader Peter

 

[Koey]

1. Did Jesus anywhere command Saturday OR Sunday as a Sabbath? After all, he taught his disciples to teach what he commanded.
2. Did the Apostles anywhere command Saturday OR Sunday as a Sabbath? After all, there is a lot of space in the NT in which this could have been said
3. What commands regarding rest are there in the NT? The only one is where Jesus said, come to me and I will give you rest.
4. Does following Jesus' example mean we ought to keep Sabbath? After all he was circumcised, unmarried, and died on a cross too.
5. Is Sabbathing on Saturday OR Sunday necessary for salvation? Does the NT mention that anywhere?
6. Is there a higher level of obedience to God, which fulfills the spirit of the law? (Circumcision of the heart. Rest in Christ. Self-sacrifice.)
7. Are there essentials of Christianity that Saturday or Sunday Sabbatarianism distract us from, because we are so focused on the materialism of days, instead of spiritually significant things?

 

[Iosias]

Was, is and always will be Saturday. Regardless of what anyone else says. I go to church on Saturday because the church is true to the Holy Word. How has it come that many of our christian churches proclaim Sunday as the day of Sabbath? It is false and does not match with what the bible says. We have one man to thank for the changing of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, and he had no God given right to. In the early parts of the fourth century Constantine issued a decree, declaring Sunday a festival all over the Roman Empire. ever since, this has stuck in the minds of millions as the day we should worship on. Saturday is the true day because that is the day God finished his work on creating the universe, which was Saturday, the seventh day.

Acts 20:7 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."

Some helpful articles can be found here!

 

[keltoi]

The only place in the entire NT where a rest is commanded is where Jesus says to his students, Come to me all you who are weary and heavily laden and I will give you rest.

This is not a command but a gracious offer. Jesus is offering after the fact to take our burden off us. The after the fact is refering to his death and resurection which he graciously went through so that we could be seen by God as worthy. The point now is do you accept the offer?

 

[keltoi]

Personally I rest on Saturday the Sabbath and travel to church and worship on Sunday.I think driving to or walking to church on the Sabbath Saturday would be breaking the Sabbath Law.

If you consider making an effort to go to Worship work then there is a problem, Worship is not and cannot be work, Worship is rest in God.