The Trinity

[razzelflabben]

Of course it is. Jesus God having a God who isn't Him but someone else to whom He ascends and shares with His brothers and sisters is bordering on polytheism.

just like me saying something like, "as a mother I can understand that but as your child it makes no sense to me" makes me have a multiple personality disorder....geesh.

 

[razzelflabben]

Scripture doesn't say that Jesus is fully God and fully man.

yeah it does and the passages that testify to this have repeatedly been presented and ignored...these are taken from the following site since I am tired of repeating myself and others....
Colossians 2:9 ESV / 22 helpful votes
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

John 1:1-5 ESV / 9 helpful votes
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

John 10:28-30 ESV / 8 helpful votes
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”

http://www.openbible.info/topics/jesus_crist_fully_man_fully_god

then we add all the passages where Jesus claimed deity and God did not argue or show any disagreement and the case is pretty firm.

There are too many personal assumptions in the post to respond to.

study scripture, it is all there.

 

[justlookinla]

Judging others is not addressed in scripture? Matthew 7:1

You didn't quote me concerning what you're wanting me to apologize for.

fair enough...but, if you are going to argue against trinity doctrine, you have to know and understand trinity doctrine or you just sound foolish.

Tell me how God can have a God and it not be polytheism.

And before you go off on some bunny path, this is true for any doctrine one wants to argue against. In order to even sound remotely knowledgeable, you have to know and understand not only what you are arguing for but what you are arguing against. not what I said, but since your interpretations skills have not proven to be the best as per this thread, I'm not going to argue, I'm just going to point out that that is NOT even close to what I really did say. ?????

LOL. You're not going to argue?

 

[justlookinla]

just like me saying something like, "as a mother I can understand that but as your child it makes no sense to me" makes me have a multiple personality disorder....geesh.

Jesus having a God who isn't Him but is instead His Father who is God but isn't the Son God yet is one the one God who isn't Jesus is bordering on schizophrenia. To put it mildly.

 

[justlookinla]

yeah it does and the passages that testify to this have repeatedly been presented and ignored...these are taken from the following site since I am tired of repeating myself and others....
Colossians 2:9 ESV / 22 helpful votes
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

Right. In Jesus Christ the fullness of Jesus Christ doesn't dwell....He's already Jesus Christ. There is someone else dwelling in Him....the fullness of deity.

John 1:1-5 ESV / 9 helpful votes

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Who was in the beginning with God? The Word and the Word was a god. Someone was with someone. God with God? That's polytheism.

John 10:28-30 ESV / 8 helpful votes

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”

Yes, they are one but they aren't the same being.

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

http://www.openbible.info/topics/jesus_crist_fully_man_fully_god

then we add all the passages where Jesus claimed deity and God did not argue or show any disagreement and the case is pretty firm. study scripture, it is all there.

Only if you read it through trinitarian blinders.

 

[razzelflabben]

Tell me how God can have a God and it not be polytheism.

I did in that longer on topic post not long ago.

 

[razzelflabben]

Jesus having a God who isn't Him but is instead His Father who is God but isn't the Son God yet is one the one God who isn't Jesus is bordering on schizophrenia. To put it mildly.

maybe from a fleshly mindset but from a spiritual one, it isn't, but then again, this isn't the first time I have pointed out that the flesh is not capable of understanding what is intended to be understood by the spirit alone.

 

[justlookinla]

maybe from a fleshly mindset but from a spiritual one, it isn't, but then again, this isn't the first time I have pointed out that the flesh is not capable of understanding what is intended to be understood by the spirit alone.

And yet another failure to explain the trinity.

 

[razzelflabben]

Right. In Jesus Christ the fullness of Jesus Christ doesn't dwell....He's already Jesus Christ. There is someone else dwelling in Him....the fullness of deity.



Who was in the beginning with God? The Word and the Word was a god. Someone was with someone. God with God? That's polytheism.



Yes, they are one but they aren't the same being.

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.



Only if you read it through trinitarian blinders.

look, your post show you are getting agitated beyond what you are capable of controlling. Don't personally know if you are or not, just how your posts are coming across. The understanding of trinity as presented in scripture cannot be grasp by the fleshly understanding of God. That means that as long as you are trying to understand it with the flesh, you will only get more and more agitated and upset. So, I will leave you for the time being to relax and dwell on some things. Have a great day as you strive to honor and please our Lord and King.

 

[justlookinla]

look, your post show you are getting agitated beyond what you are capable of controlling. Don't personally know if you are or not, just how your posts are coming across.

LOL. What?

The understanding of trinity as presented in scripture cannot be grasp by the fleshly understanding of God. That means that as long as you are trying to understand it with the flesh, you will only get more and more agitated and upset. So, I will leave you for the time being to relax and dwell on some things. Have a great day as you strive to honor and please our Lord and King.

Believe me, I'm not agitated or upset. I've been through the trinity discussion many many times. Usually, at the end of the discussions the trinitarian will still proclaim the view that those who reject the trinity are not Christians and are lost. That's their right to have that view, I simply disagree with it.

 

[razzelflabben]

LOL. What?



Believe me, I'm not agitated or upset. I've been through the trinity discussion many many times. Usually, at the end of the discussions the trinitarian will still proclaim the view that those who reject the trinity are not Christians and are lost. That's their right to have that view, I simply disagree with it.

Okay....your posts ignore the answers I gave and then "attack" me for not explaining because you are ignoring what I said. That is evidence of agitation and aggression that should not be happening in this discussion.

As to your boast here about other people, that doesn't apply to me at all, so you best not try to fit me into your preconceived mold. 1. I have explained it very well and deeper than anyone I personally have heard explain it because God has currently called me into full time study of His word. Which means I can explain it through scripture without any man's teaching being necessary at all, just scripture and the HS. 2. I would never judge someones "christianity" that just isn't something I would do, I would tell you that this is something for the Spirit to understand and if you are not listening to the Spirit, it won't make sense to you, but no matter what definition we go with for christian, one can be a believer and not listen to the Spirit, so not my judgment call at all. 3. What I disagree with it people like you who try to shame others with accusations like this into agreeing with you on the issue of trinity simply because they don't agree with you.

Now, when you are ready to discuss the points I made and you dismissed with nothing more than 'not biblical' even though ever single bit is in fact biblical just not what is commonly taught thus leaving you with a problem of not knowing how to argue it because you haven't been taught how to argue against it, we are simply taking a break so that you don't levie any more ugly accusations that you will eventually regret.

 

[justlookinla]

Okay....your posts ignore the answers I gave and then "attack" me for not explaining because you are ignoring what I said. That is evidence of agitation and aggression that should not be happening in this discussion.

Attack? Reference please.

As to your boast

What boast?

here about other people, that doesn't apply to me at all, so you best not try to fit me into your preconceived mold. 1. I have explained it very well and deeper than anyone I personally have heard explain it because God has currently called me into full time study of His word.

With your self-identified superior spiritual knowledge, possibly you could explain the trinity to the trinitarians who don't understand the trinity?

Which means I can explain it through scripture without any man's teaching being necessary at all, just scripture and the HS.

So far you haven't explained it thorough scripture, you've only made claims unsupported by scripture.

2. I would never judge someones "christianity" that just isn't something I would do, I would tell you that this is something for the Spirit to understand and if you are not listening to the Spirit, it won't make sense to you, but no matter what definition we go with for christian, one can be a believer and not listen to the Spirit, so not my judgment call at all.

Great. Jesus is savior of both the trinitarian and non-trinitarian then.

3. What I disagree with it people like you who try to shame others with accusations like this into agreeing with you on the issue of trinity simply because they don't agree with you.

Shame others? Quote please.

Now, when you are ready to discuss the points I made and you dismissed with nothing more than 'not biblical' even though ever single bit is in fact biblical just not what is commonly taught thus leaving you with a problem of not knowing how to argue it because you haven't been taught how to argue against it, we are simply taking a break so that you don't levie any more ugly accusations that you will eventually regret.

What "ugly accusations"? Quote please.

 

[razzelflabben]

Attack? Reference please.

see the hostility in what you are saying? The word attack was put into quotes to indicate it was my word for your response that it wasn't biblical. In fact, that is a type of attack and shows you to be getting agitated.

What boast?

showed it and explained it and going over it again is just getting us further and further off topic and your posts to show more and more aggression.

With your self-identified superior spiritual knowledge, possibly you could explain the trinity to the trinitarians who don't understand the trinity?

wow that is really going overboard with what I said....but hey, I will talk to both trinitarians and non trinitarians about what the bible says, it's an amazing set of books filled with the most incredible truths and worth every moment of study and discussion that one can spend time doing. And just for the record, I didn't claim to be an expert or have superior spiritual knowledge, I claimed to have the time to do deep study so that I do not have to rely on the teachers to convince me of anything or explain to me how to contradict the opposing side. See, this kind of aggression where you twist what I am saying is what I'm asking you to take a break from and come back with the peace of God that passes all understanding.

So far you haven't explained it thorough scripture, you've only made claims unsupported by scripture.

well, that isn't any more true than your twisting what I said to make it sound like I was a "self-identified superior spiritual knowledge" person. Come on....you need a break so that you are less tempted to make they false accusations. It's just a break, not the end of the world. In fact, since Trinity understanding is a spiritual understanding, you would only be encouraging the HS to speak to you, in you, and through you by taking the break and refocusing your attention of God not on trying to "win" some argument.

Great. Jesus is savior of both the trinitarian and non-trinitarian then.

Yep...scripture says He is the Savior of the world. That means both saved and unsaved, both trinitarian and non trinitarian, both sinner and righteous, both man and woman, etc. etc. etc. How is it that you have convinced yourself you understand trinity when you don't even seem to know that Christ is the Savior of the world? That doesn't mean everyone in the world is saved, but according to scripture, salvation is not ours to judge, but God's alone.

 

[justlookinla]

see the hostility in what you are saying? The word attack was put into quotes to indicate it was my word for your response that it wasn't biblical. In fact, that is a type of attack and shows you to be getting agitated.

Amazing.

showed it and explained it and going over it again is just getting us further and further off topic and your posts to show more and more aggression. wow that is really going overboard with what I said....but hey, I will talk to both trinitarians and non trinitarians about what the bible says, it's an amazing set of books filled with the most incredible truths and worth every moment of study and discussion that one can spend time doing. And just for the record, I didn't claim to be an expert or have superior spiritual knowledge, I claimed to have the time to do deep study so that I do not have to rely on the teachers to convince me of anything or explain to me how to contradict the opposing side.

Suggesting that those who disagree with you have neither the Spirit leading them or are students of deep study.

See, this kind of aggression where you twist what I am saying is what I'm asking you to take a break from and come back with the peace of God that passes all understanding. well, that isn't any more true than your twisting what I said to make it sound like I was a "self-identified superior spiritual knowledge" person. Come on....you need a break so that you are less tempted to make they false accusations. It's just a break, not the end of the world.

False accusations? Quote me.

In fact, since Trinity understanding is a spiritual understanding, you would only be encouraging the HS to speak to you, in you, and through you by taking the break and refocusing your attention of God not on trying to "win" some argument.

The HS is leading me to reject the trinity.

Yep...scripture says He is the Savior of the world. That means both saved and unsaved, both trinitarian and non trinitarian, both sinner and righteous, both man and woman, etc. etc. etc. How is it that you have convinced yourself you understand trinity when you don't even seem to know that Christ is the Savior of the world? That doesn't mean everyone in the world is saved, but according to scripture, salvation is not ours to judge, but God's alone.

You're right, the final judge is God.

 

[razzelflabben]

Amazing.
Suggesting that those who disagree with you have neither the Spirit leading them or are students of deep study.

not what I said...but more to the point, scripture says that only those speaking in the spirit can say Jesus is LORD...what I said is that it is a spiritual matter and thus can only be understood by the spirit. I said absolutely nothing at all about which side of the issue is truth, that is all your reading into it what isn't there...but again, that is why I suggest you take a break and re adjust your focus. Oh and for the record, the ONLY Thing I said about study is that God has currently called me to study full time and as such, I don't need teachers feeding me their ideas, I go solely on what the bible does say. Again, any other accusation is made up in your head and is reason enough to call for a break so that you can adjust your focus and we can proceed in the power of the Living God. [/quote]

The HS is leading me to reject the trinity. [/quote] is it also your claim that the HS is the one guiding you to make false accusations about what I am saying to you? Cause scripture tells us to not bear false witness, that would mean that the one led by the HS would not be saying I said something I didn't as we see above and my correction of what I have said.

 

[justlookinla]

not what I said...but more to the point, scripture says that only those speaking in the spirit can say Jesus is LORD...what I said is that it is a spiritual matter and thus can only be understood by the spirit. I said absolutely nothing at all about which side of the issue is truth, that is all your reading into it what isn't there...but again, that is why I suggest you take a break and re adjust your focus. Oh and for the record, the ONLY Thing I said about study is that God has currently called me to study full time and as such, I don't need teachers feeding me their ideas, I go solely on what the bible does say. Again, any other accusation is made up in your head and is reason enough to call for a break so that you can adjust your focus and we can proceed in the power of the Living God.

Jesus is Lord....and I reject the trinity.

is it also your claim that the HS is the one guiding you to make false accusations about what I am saying to you? Cause scripture tells us to not bear false witness, that would mean that the one led by the HS would not be saying I said something I didn't as we see above and my correction of what I have said.

What false accusations? Quote me please.

 

[razzelflabben]

Jesus is Lord....and I reject the trinity.



What false accusations? Quote me please.

honey...I just did in the post that you supposedly are responding to here. come on, this is insanity...

 

[justlookinla]

honey...I just did in the post that you supposedly are responding to here. come on, this is insanity...

Quote me and my false accusations.

 

[pastor marty]

see the hostility in what you are saying? The word attack was put into quotes to indicate it was my word for your response that it wasn't biblical. In fact, that is a type of attack and shows you to be getting agitated. showed it and explained it and going over it again is just getting us further and further off topic and your posts to show more and more aggression. wow that is really going overboard with what I said....but hey, I will talk to both trinitarians and non trinitarians about what the bible says, it's an amazing set of books filled with the most incredible truths and worth every moment of study and discussion that one can spend time doing. And just for the record, I didn't claim to be an expert or have superior spiritual knowledge, I claimed to have the time to do deep study so that I do not have to rely on the teachers to convince me of anything or explain to me how to contradict the opposing side. See, this kind of aggression where you twist what I am saying is what I'm asking you to take a break from and come back with the peace of God that passes all understanding. well, that isn't any more true than your twisting what I said to make it sound like I was a "self-identified superior spiritual knowledge" person. Come on....you need a break so that you are less tempted to make they false accusations. It's just a break, not the end of the world. In fact, since Trinity understanding is a spiritual understanding, you would only be encouraging the HS to speak to you, in you, and through you by taking the break and refocusing your attention of God not on trying to "win" some argument. Yep...scripture says He is the Savior of the world. That means both saved and unsaved, both trinitarian and non trinitarian, both sinner and righteous, both man and woman, etc. etc. etc. How is it that you have convinced yourself you understand trinity when you don't even seem to know that Christ is the Savior of the world? That doesn't mean everyone in the world is saved, but according to scripture, salvation is not ours to judge, but God's alone.

 

[pastor marty]

2 Razyfat & The rest of U. Raz, your epistle was concise,and faith inspired (I think) GOD IS 1/3 OR WHATEVER HE WANTS 2/B.Don't waste your time/love/concern on folks who like to annoy the Lord w/stupid questions like how many Angels can dance on the head of a pin (actual medieval topic Monks pondered while sampling sacramental wine) or the classic (none of our business), Can God make a rock so heavy HE can't lift it. Wasn't there a scripture about insulting the 'Holy Spirit' with mental bovine excrement ??