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The Trinity
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donfish06
May The Lord Richly Bless You
Act 9:3-5 And as he(PAUL) journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: (4) And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? (5) And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Saul (as he was still named at the time) did NOT believe Jesus was God. When God appeared to him as a blinding light, he asked, "Who are thou, (God)" (the only God he knew... the God of the OT) and GOD answered back, I AM JESUS. Why would he call Jesus Lord?? It is because he recognized that light to be God, and God revealed to him that his name is JESUS
Saul (as he was still named at the time) did NOT believe Jesus was God. When God appeared to him as a blinding light, he asked, "Who are thou, (God)" (the only God he knew... the God of the OT) and GOD answered back, I AM JESUS. Why would he call Jesus Lord?? It is because he recognized that light to be God, and God revealed to him that his name is JESUS
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Albion
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That's right, but it doesn't mean that it has to have been clearly enunciated in the Old Testament for a people who had yet to witness the coming of the Son, their Messiah.
It doesn't mean anything of the sort. And again I ask you why the New Testament's witness isn't acceptable to you if it is indeed the Word of God as most Christians consider it to be?
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donfish06
May The Lord Richly Bless You
Because it has to line up w/ the OT. If someone has an understanding of the OT that does not line up with the NT, then it is wrong, and visa versa. I am saying that you have a wrong understanding of the NT scriptures.
Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Who is this referring to? Who is the LORD God?
I'll give you a hint:
יְהֹוָה
yehôvâh
yeh-ho-vaw'
From H1961; (the) self Existent or eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare H3050, H3069.
Which part of the Trinity is Jehovah?
Who is this referring to? Who is the LORD God?
I'll give you a hint:
יְהֹוָה
yehôvâh
yeh-ho-vaw'
From H1961; (the) self Existent or eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare H3050, H3069.
Which part of the Trinity is Jehovah?
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Albion
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I'm waiting for your answer to my question--why is the New Testament's teaching on the Trinity not acceptable to you? The idea that it must replicate everything taught in the Old Testament is simply a non-starter of a response. No church believes that.
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donfish06
May The Lord Richly Bless You
I answered it 3 times! The NT does NOT teach the Trinity. The Trinity does not line up with the entire Bible. That is my answer ( which I have said at least 3 times.)
Now your turn. I will ask it for the 3rd or 4th time!
Which part of the Godhead is Jehovah?
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Albion
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Well then, here's where we stand.
The New Testament is the Word of God. At least, that's what just about every Christian church of whatever denomination holds true.
In the New Testament, it is clearly stated that the three persona (as the Council of Nicaea chose to word it) of God are separate but yet not different individuals or entities. There is but one God. Nor are these merely different names, used according to the role played by God at different times.
But since you steadfastly refuse to hear of the New Testament's witness, you also refuse the proofs of the Trinity that are in God's word. That means that nothing more can be done here.
The New Testament is the Word of God. At least, that's what just about every Christian church of whatever denomination holds true.
In the New Testament, it is clearly stated that the three persona (as the Council of Nicaea chose to word it) of God are separate but yet not different individuals or entities. There is but one God. Nor are these merely different names, used according to the role played by God at different times.
But since you steadfastly refuse to hear of the New Testament's witness, you also refuse the proofs of the Trinity that are in God's word. That means that nothing more can be done here.
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donfish06
May The Lord Richly Bless You
What church believes that the OT is not the Word of God?
I fully believe that the NT is the Word of God, but just as well is the OT.
Over and over you refuse to answer my questions. You cannot answer them because the answer will prove your catholic theology WRONG. I'm asking an honest question.. why will you not answer the question? The very fact that you REFUSE to answer it shows that you KNOW that it will blow holes in your catholic trinity theology. If you know that will happen, and still decide to believe the way you believe, then nothing more can be done here. You can talk your way out of it all you want. I use God's Word. Not the Nicene (catholic) creed. Hogwash!
ANYBODY ON HERE THAT HAS MORE CONFIDENCE IN THE TRINITY PLEASE TELL ME WHICH PART OF THE TRINITY IS JEHOVAH?
UNTIL SOMEONE ANSWERS, I REST MY CASE. THE BURDEN IS ON YOU
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Hi,
To see God The Father, Tinitarianly, it is Jesus who gave me the clue. It is where in the New Testament, He talked about being talked about in The Old Testament.
He also said, the Old Testament, Scripture to them, could not be changed.
Then one day, and I think in two places in The New Testament Jesus says this:
"David speaking under the inspiriation of The Holy Spirt, said one day, The Lord, said to my Lord, sit here at my right side......."
Today, we say, Jesus quoted from Psalms 110. Then it was probably a scroll, but called Scripture.
So, to me, it says this God The Father is The Lord in Psalms 110, and Jesus is my Lord. And, it also mentions by the words of Jesus The Holy Spirit.
The idea of Jesus being talked about in the book of Moses, and the book of prophets, is amazing, but it seems as though Jesus said that indeed, He is talked about there.
One day, I decided to try and make substitutions. I went to Psalms 2 for some reason or another. Every place I saw The Lord, or the The Lord was talking, I subtituted God The Father for those words.
And everywhere I saw the words my Lord or our Lord I substituted, Jesus.
After doing those subtitutions, I reread that. It made total sense and it proved that The Lord is indeed God The Father.
My only problem besides it being incredibly difficult at first, was where is The Holy Spirit in all that?
Jesus helped out there, in what He said, I think twice in The New Testament. David is speaking the words of The Holy Spiirit, some of the time.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
To see God The Father, Tinitarianly, it is Jesus who gave me the clue. It is where in the New Testament, He talked about being talked about in The Old Testament.
He also said, the Old Testament, Scripture to them, could not be changed.
Then one day, and I think in two places in The New Testament Jesus says this:
"David speaking under the inspiriation of The Holy Spirt, said one day, The Lord, said to my Lord, sit here at my right side......."
Today, we say, Jesus quoted from Psalms 110. Then it was probably a scroll, but called Scripture.
So, to me, it says this God The Father is The Lord in Psalms 110, and Jesus is my Lord. And, it also mentions by the words of Jesus The Holy Spirit.
The idea of Jesus being talked about in the book of Moses, and the book of prophets, is amazing, but it seems as though Jesus said that indeed, He is talked about there.
One day, I decided to try and make substitutions. I went to Psalms 2 for some reason or another. Every place I saw The Lord, or the The Lord was talking, I subtituted God The Father for those words.
And everywhere I saw the words my Lord or our Lord I substituted, Jesus.
After doing those subtitutions, I reread that. It made total sense and it proved that The Lord is indeed God The Father.
My only problem besides it being incredibly difficult at first, was where is The Holy Spirit in all that?
Jesus helped out there, in what He said, I think twice in The New Testament. David is speaking the words of The Holy Spiirit, some of the time.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
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Hi,
On the concept of Jehovah, it was fascinating to me that, one vowels were not used back in those days, I am told by everyone.
Also, on the concept of Jehovah, it was fascinating that a Roman Catholic monk was said to haver errored in translating the name of God in Vowels to Jehovah, yet it caught on by lots of people.
It seems I am told the actual name of God is an unknown.
It seems I am told that the best guess anyone has today, is Yahweh. That is of course if you are not Jewish.
I am told they use Ha Shem, for the exact same idea of God.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
On the concept of Jehovah, it was fascinating to me that, one vowels were not used back in those days, I am told by everyone.
Also, on the concept of Jehovah, it was fascinating that a Roman Catholic monk was said to haver errored in translating the name of God in Vowels to Jehovah, yet it caught on by lots of people.
It seems I am told the actual name of God is an unknown.
It seems I am told that the best guess anyone has today, is Yahweh. That is of course if you are not Jewish.
I am told they use Ha Shem, for the exact same idea of God.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
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Genesis3:8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.
In this passage it illustrates what is written in the gospel of John, 'in the beginning the word was with God and the word was God", this word is the Voice of YHWH Elohiym, in this passage all three of the trinity are illustrated also as one. Elohiym that is usually translated as "God" is the Father, YHWH that is also rendered as Jehovah is the Holy Spirit and "Wisdom" of the proverbs. When the prophets are called "Son of Man" this is because God is speaking to the prophet, and also to Jesus in the future who self identifies as the living incarnation of God's voice.
In Ezekiel Jesus is referred to as the glory of God, not quite ready for incarnation yet .. but compare this form to the one in revelation .. it's quite amazing the continuity and illustration of how God even matures and grows.
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razzelflabben
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how pray tell does that address what I said? Oh never mind, it is impossible to make a convincing case for the job of the HS to be to suffer and die for our sins, just like Jesus job was to suffer and die for our sins and to make matters worse, that God the Father's just was to suffer and die for our sins. I mean that is just an impossible. To further complicate the matter, Jesus said He would go and send the comforter (aka HS) so if they have the same role, how is it possible that Jesus was able to say it is finished on the cross but also that He would send another to work that which He did not do? And then we go to Colossians which talks about the unfinished work of Christ. But I already talked about all this....so, moving on....as I also said, one could argue that the goal or end purpose was the same, that of bringing all men to a right relationship with God, which is not only a case that could be made, but one that would have validity and one that seems more to the heart of those who claim the Father, Son, and HS all have the same role. But all that was overlooked so you could accuse me of having a tone because I told you that the comment was irrelevant to the point I was making which was about semantics. You know, trying to put fleshly words on something only the spirit can comprehend. So maybe you should show how a discussion about the roles of the trinity being exactly the same, is relevant to a comment about semantics coming into play when we are talking about trying to define with our flesh what only the spirit can understand? See, even though I find no relevance and you have not shown any, I did address the point you were making and you didn't respond to that, which says to me that the comment was in fact, irrelevant or you would have addressed the comments I made that were relevant rather than going on about me pointing out that it was irrelevant to the point I was making...but hey, water under the bridge, you have another chance to respond to my response of your comments.
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razzelflabben
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JeUOTE="donfish06, post: 68172061, member: 341326"]"The word Elohim possesses a plural intensive syntax and is singular in meaning. However with Elohim, the construction is grammatically singular ...
This is self-evident from the fact that the verb "created" (bara (Gen 1:1)) is in the singular"
- Rabbi Tovia Singer
"God created." The Hebrew noun Elohim is plural but the verb is singular, a normal usage in the OT when reference is to the One True God. This use of the plural expresses intensification rather than number and has been called the plural of majesty, or of potentiality"
(NIV Study Bible)[/QUOTE]
This is self-evident from the fact that the verb "created" (bara (Gen 1:1)) is in the singular"
- Rabbi Tovia Singer
"God created." The Hebrew noun Elohim is plural but the verb is singular, a normal usage in the OT when reference is to the One True God. This use of the plural expresses intensification rather than number and has been called the plural of majesty, or of potentiality"
(NIV Study Bible)[/QUOTE]
come now, the trinity is made up of the Father, Son, and HS but one God, aka Jehovah....Yahweh (which btw, the Jews will not say for fear of pronouncing it wrong, that deep of reverence and Godly fear) ...God...I Am...
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