The Trinity... .

[David333]

your obviously not even reading whats being said because I have proven my position on the trinity while being offered nothing more then a simple point made by his church which I later refuted

This thread was not about your position on the trinity. We established very early on that it's similar to Arius' position which by definition means you are part of a different church tradition from the one I am part of.

I would very much like to discuss the church tradition of which I am a part. You standing on the sidelines saying that I'm in the wrong church is no use at all, no contribution whatsoever to the debate.

This is not the place to refute your position on the trinity. We've understood that it's a part of a different church tradition, and I'm sure there are many different threads where you can defend your church tradition's position... .

 

[&Abel]

I have shown the scripture completing back my views

you want to blindly follow men thats your decision

 

[DD2008]

not one person here has offered ANYTHING besides "the church doesn't teach that"

give me scripture proving my points wrong

I'm getting so irriated

Why would I take the time to do that when you have proven to me in many threads that you won't listen?

 

[David333]

I have shown the scripture completing back my views

you want to blindly follow men thats your decision

I would like to have a discussion within the context of scripture and tradition, yes... .

 

[&Abel]

because you can't accept the truth which I have provided

 

[&Abel]

Why would I take the time to do that when you have proven to me in many threads that you won't listen?

claiming I have been refuted does not make it so...

if you had proof you would post it

instead you hide behind a false claim

 

[&Abel]

9However, you are not (R)in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God (S)dwells in you But (T)if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
10(U)If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
11But if the Spirit of Him who (V)raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, (W)He who raised (X)Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies [a]through His Spirit who dwells in you.




19"(AC)But when they hand you over, (AD)do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say.
20"For (AE)it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.



11"(I)When they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit.

17the former proclaim Christ (AK)out of selfish ambition rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my (AL)imprisonment.
18What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I rejoice. Yes, and I will rejoice,
19for I know that this will turn out for my deliverance (AM)through your prayers and the provision of (AN)the Spirit of Jesus Christ,
20according to my (AO)earnest expectation and (AP)hope, that I will not be put to shame in anything, but that with (AQ)all boldness, Christ will even now, as always, be (AR)exalted in my body, (AS)whether by life or by death.

10(AL)As to this salvation, the prophets who (AM)prophesied of the (AN)grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries,
11seeking to know what person or time (AO)the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He (AP)predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.
12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who (AQ)preached the gospel to you by (AR)the Holy Spirit sent from heaven--things into which (AS)angels long to look.



I just found the above today(I just keep finding more and more)


so the prophets of old were also speaking from the spirit of christ which was in them



6They passed through the (N)Phrygian and (O)Galatian region, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in (P)Asia;
7and after they came to (Q)Mysia, they were trying to go into (R)Bithynia, and the (S)Spirit of Jesus did not permit them;

I'll post this once again

I'd like an explanation from anyone claiming my point of view to be false

 

[DD2008]

claiming I have been refuted does not make it so...

if you had proof you would post it

instead you hide behind a false claim

I have posted before. I posted many good links on the trinity with scriptual proofs.

As fast as you were posting the gibberish you do. I am certain you never even took the time to look at them. I gave you enough material to keep you busy for at least 4 hours. You seemingly disregarded it and moved on to post more gibberish. When anyone refutes your claims you just keep on going with another one.

You are the only one who doesn't realise your position is baseless.

 

[&Abel]

give me scriptural proofs(which you should have from your links)

I am not reading through garbage just to make you happy

post the proof from the articles

 

[DD2008]

give me scriptural proofs(which you should have from your links)

I am not reading through garbage just to make you happy

post the proof from the articles

If you're interested go look them up from where I originally posted them in the other thread. It took me a long time to search, read, disect and find the right ones. I don't see why I should do it again just because you weren't interested in the topic enough to actually read them.

 

[&Abel]

I"m not interested because I already know its incorrect

but if you would like to prove your point I suggest you find the evidence(if you've even read the articles your linking me too)

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=48867122#post48867122

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[&Abel]

I am a christian thanks and thats from months ago

since then the requirement to adhere to the nicene creed has been lifted

 

[SummaScriptura]

I know it has been discussed a lot but I don't think there's a current thread and I've been reading about Nicaea and specifically Athanasius' understanding of the trinity. Am I avoiding heresy by stating that God is one in being, in essence, in existence, and yet three in modes of action...?

So, the Son is only the Son by virtue of the Father, and the Father only the Father by virtue of the Son. All that the Son is the Father is, apart from Son, and all that the Father is the Son is, apart from Father (and the same for the Spirit). We know God not in his essence (one) but in his modes of action (three: Father, Son and Spirit).

I fear I'm veering close to Sabellius... . Any thoughts...?

No you are not avoiding it. This theory has been suggested quite a lot over 2,000 years. Its called modalism. Essentially, modalism denies the existence of the Trinity.

http://www.carm.org/heresy/modalism.htm

God the Father did not die for you. The Son of God did not send the Father to you to be a Helper. Jesus Christ did not fall upon and fill those gathered in the upper room on that Pentecost described in Acts 2.

Jesus cried from the cross, "My God, My God, Why hast thou forsaken me?!" If he were a mode, he would not have properly say that.

Modalism removes God's threeness. God is three in one.

 

[&Abel]

as Orthodoxy pointed out in the last thread concerning this

my view is NOT modalism

I believe the father is separate from the son(I don't believe the son was literally the father)

he was the father only because he contained the same spirit...but the father remains in heaven separate "physically" from the son

 

[SummaScriptura]

he exists as a father through the son

but his being existed prior

even being a father suggests he existed first

the creation is considered female btw

{emphasis mine}

Abel, I know you've been questioning the nature of the Holy Spirit, are you now stating Jesus came into being in time?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Jesus cried from the cross, "My God, My God, Why hast thou forsaken me?!" If he were a mode, he would not have properly say that.

Christ was quoting the Psalms.

Forgive me...

 

[&Abel]

{emphasis mine}

Abel, I know you've been questioning the nature of the Holy Spirit, are you now stating Jesus came into being in time?

this is something I haven't worked out

I realize that it would have to be outside of the realm of time so to say "before" is somewhat limited as a description

but we know our god works in metaphor, and he would not have labeled himself father unless he existed "prior" to the son

fathers and mothers beget their children here on earth and I have to assume something similar happened within the god matrix

 

[SummaScriptura]

I have shown the scripture completing back my views

you want to blindly follow men thats your decision

If this thread continues to degenerate into a discussion of whether or not there is a Trinity it should be moved to the unothodox theology section. The OP does not deny the Trinity, I think, he's merely trying to work through the theology of it. In that case, Abel, you are posting off topic and derailing the discussion in this thread.

 

[&Abel]

sorry but we can discuss the trinity with liberality here now and while maybe I should just let this go since it is not my thread

but its hard to let those who are ignorant to the truth continue to spread false man inspired heresy

especially when the truth is so unbelievably clear from scripture to those with their eyes open