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The Trinity... .
- Thread starter David333
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how am I reading into this?
10(AL)As to this salvation, the prophets who (AM)prophesied of the (AN)grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries,
11seeking to know what person or time (AO)the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He (AP)predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.
12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who (AQ)preached the gospel to you by (AR)the Holy Spirit sent from heaven--things into which (AS)angels long to look.
this is describing the holy spirit as the spirit of christ and referring to him as a He(capital H) so its not as if this is just saying "the virtue of christ" its talking about a person who is referred to as the spirit of christ(and this is talking about prior to christ)
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is the world not often compared to a woman giving birth?
explain to me how you know this to be incorrect
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You said...
Clearly you are reading things "into" this, that The Church does not teach.
Forgive me...
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You said:
Christ God is the creator of all things. (John 1)
Creation has never been referred to with a gender.
Please show it to me if you will.
Forgive me..
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*sigh*
from 2 Esdras:
[39] And it is perhaps on account of us that the time of threshing is delayed for the righteous -- on account of the sins of those who dwell on earth."
[40] He answered me and said, "Go and ask a woman who is with child if, when her nine months have been completed, her womb can keep the child within her any longer."
[41] And I said, "No, lord, it cannot."
And he said to me, "In Hades the chambers of the souls are like the womb.
[42] For just as a woman who is in travail makes haste to escape the pangs of birth, so also do these places hasten to give back those things that were committed to them from the beginning.
[43] Then the things that you desire to see will be disclosed to you."
[44] I answered and said, "If I have found favor in your sight, and if it is possible, and if I am worthy,
[45] show me this also: whether more time is to come than has passed, or whether for us the greater part has gone by.
[46] For I know what has gone by, but I do not know what is to come."
[47] And he said to me, "Stand at my right side, and I will show you the interpretation of a parable."
[46] He said to me, "Ask a woman's womb, and say to it, `If you bear ten children, why one after another?' Request it therefore to produce ten at one time."
[47] I said, "Of course it cannot, but only each in its own time."
[48] He said to me, "Even so have I given the womb of the earth to those who from time to time are sown in it.
[49] For as an infant does not bring forth, and a woman who has become old does not bring forth any longer, so have I organized the world which I created."
[50] Then I inquired and said, "Since thou hast now given me the opportunity, let me speak before thee. Is our mother, of whom thou hast told me, still young? Or is she now approaching old age?"
[51] He replied to me, "Ask a woman who bears children, and she will tell you.
[52] Say to her, "Why are those whom you have borne recently not like those whom you bore before, but smaller in stature?'
[53] And she herself will answer you, `Those born in the strength of youth are different from those born during the time of old age, when the womb is failing.'
[54] Therefore you also should consider that you and your contemporaries are smaller in stature than those who were before you,
[55] and those who come after you will be smaller than you, as born of a creation which already is aging and passing the strength of youth."
[56] And I said, "O Lord, I beseech thee, if I have found favor in thy sight, show thy servant through whom thou dost visit thy creation."
from 2 Esdras:
[39] And it is perhaps on account of us that the time of threshing is delayed for the righteous -- on account of the sins of those who dwell on earth."
[40] He answered me and said, "Go and ask a woman who is with child if, when her nine months have been completed, her womb can keep the child within her any longer."
[41] And I said, "No, lord, it cannot."
And he said to me, "In Hades the chambers of the souls are like the womb.
[42] For just as a woman who is in travail makes haste to escape the pangs of birth, so also do these places hasten to give back those things that were committed to them from the beginning.
[43] Then the things that you desire to see will be disclosed to you."
[44] I answered and said, "If I have found favor in your sight, and if it is possible, and if I am worthy,
[45] show me this also: whether more time is to come than has passed, or whether for us the greater part has gone by.
[46] For I know what has gone by, but I do not know what is to come."
[47] And he said to me, "Stand at my right side, and I will show you the interpretation of a parable."
[46] He said to me, "Ask a woman's womb, and say to it, `If you bear ten children, why one after another?' Request it therefore to produce ten at one time."
[47] I said, "Of course it cannot, but only each in its own time."
[48] He said to me, "Even so have I given the womb of the earth to those who from time to time are sown in it.
[49] For as an infant does not bring forth, and a woman who has become old does not bring forth any longer, so have I organized the world which I created."
[50] Then I inquired and said, "Since thou hast now given me the opportunity, let me speak before thee. Is our mother, of whom thou hast told me, still young? Or is she now approaching old age?"
[51] He replied to me, "Ask a woman who bears children, and she will tell you.
[52] Say to her, "Why are those whom you have borne recently not like those whom you bore before, but smaller in stature?'
[53] And she herself will answer you, `Those born in the strength of youth are different from those born during the time of old age, when the womb is failing.'
[54] Therefore you also should consider that you and your contemporaries are smaller in stature than those who were before you,
[55] and those who come after you will be smaller than you, as born of a creation which already is aging and passing the strength of youth."
[56] And I said, "O Lord, I beseech thee, if I have found favor in thy sight, show thy servant through whom thou dost visit thy creation."
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[41] The woman who appeared to you a little while ago, whom you saw mourning and began to console --
[42] but you do not now see the form of a woman, but an established city has appeared to you --
[43] and as for her telling you about the misfortune of her son, this is the interpretation:
[44] This woman whom you saw, whom you now behold as an established city, is Zion.
[45] And as for her telling you that she was barren for thirty years, it is because there were three thousand years in the world before any offering was offered in it.
[46] And after three thousand years Solomon built the city, and offered offerings; then it was that the barren woman bore a son.
[47] And as for her telling you that she brought him up with much care, that was the period of residence in Jerusalem.
[48] And as for her saying to you , `When my son entered his wedding chamber he died,' and that misfortune had overtaken her, that was the destruction which befell Jerusalem.
[49] And behold, you saw her likeness, how she mourned for her son, and you began to console her for what had happened.
[50] For now the Most High, seeing that you are sincerely grieved and profoundly distressed for her, has shown you the brilliance of her glory, and the loveliness of her beauty.
Isaiah 26
7(AH)As the pregnant woman approaches the time to give birth,
She writhes and cries out in her labor pains,
Thus were we before You, O LORD.
18We were pregnant, we writhed in labor,
We (AI)gave birth, as it seems, only to wind
We could not accomplish deliverance for the earth,
Nor were (AJ)inhabitants of the world born.
19Your (AK)dead will live;
Their corpses will rise
You who lie in the dust, (AL)awake and shout for joy,
For your dew is as the dew of the dawn,
And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.
[42] but you do not now see the form of a woman, but an established city has appeared to you --
[43] and as for her telling you about the misfortune of her son, this is the interpretation:
[44] This woman whom you saw, whom you now behold as an established city, is Zion.
[45] And as for her telling you that she was barren for thirty years, it is because there were three thousand years in the world before any offering was offered in it.
[46] And after three thousand years Solomon built the city, and offered offerings; then it was that the barren woman bore a son.
[47] And as for her telling you that she brought him up with much care, that was the period of residence in Jerusalem.
[48] And as for her saying to you , `When my son entered his wedding chamber he died,' and that misfortune had overtaken her, that was the destruction which befell Jerusalem.
[49] And behold, you saw her likeness, how she mourned for her son, and you began to console her for what had happened.
[50] For now the Most High, seeing that you are sincerely grieved and profoundly distressed for her, has shown you the brilliance of her glory, and the loveliness of her beauty.
Isaiah 26
7(AH)As the pregnant woman approaches the time to give birth,
She writhes and cries out in her labor pains,
Thus were we before You, O LORD.
18We were pregnant, we writhed in labor,
We (AI)gave birth, as it seems, only to wind
We could not accomplish deliverance for the earth,
Nor were (AJ)inhabitants of the world born.
19Your (AK)dead will live;
Their corpses will rise
You who lie in the dust, (AL)awake and shout for joy,
For your dew is as the dew of the dawn,
And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.
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1. What you say is not the truth but your own views that obviously discount all of the major Church statements on the subject of the Trinity for 2000 years.
2. You have never proved anything other than that you are utterly obstinate and not willing to listen to any traditional statement on the trinity. That is why people simply leave the conversation and you are the last one there. Most understand that there is no point getting carpal tunnel syndrome by typing thousands of words you will never consider.
3. I have seen you refuted over and over again. You are the only one who doesn't realise it.
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Mark 13:8
"For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in various places; there will also be famines. These things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
Matthew 24:8
" But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
"For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in various places; there will also be famines. These things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
Matthew 24:8
" But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
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&Able,
I'm not understanding what you are trying to tell me by posting just scripture.
I have a Bible too... I get nothing about the Trinity from what you are showing me.
Forgive me...
I'm not understanding what you are trying to tell me by posting just scripture.
I have a Bible too... I get nothing about the Trinity from what you are showing me.
Forgive me...
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The 'subject' was my understanding of the Trinity. Neither of you is attempting to understand the other's position; instead you are throwing proof texts at each other, criticising each other, and as much as both of you think you are bravely combating heresy, instead you are arguing on the Internet from completely different positions which the history of the church tells us cannot be reconciled.
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not one person here has offered ANYTHING besides "the church doesn't teach that"
give me scripture proving my points wrong
I'm getting so irriated
7In the days of His flesh, (S)He offered up both prayers and supplications with (T)loud crying and tears to the One (U)able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His (V)piety.
8Although He was (W)a Son, He learned (X)obedience from the things which He suffered.
9And having been made (Y)perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation,
10being designated by God as (Z)a high priest according to (AA)the order of Melchizedek.
11Concerning [a]him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.
12For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you (AB)the (AC)elementary principles of the (AD)oracles of God, and you have come to need (AE)milk and not solid food.
13For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an (AF)infant.
14But solid food is for (AG)the mature, who because of practice have their senses (AH)trained to (AI)discern good and evil.
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your obviously not even reading whats being said because I have proven my position on the trinity while being offered nothing more then a simple point made by his church which I later refuted
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Maybe they should realise that they're both discrediting their own positions by their approach to each other... .
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my point was concerning the earth being female and you know it
don't play dumb its unbecoming
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