the trinity concept?

[barryrob]

Right, Jesus is the physical body of the spirit of the God (the Father)

That makes Jesus a demigod and that is pagan!!!

Not God.


So no.

 

[donfish06]

That makes Jesus a demigod and that is pagan!!!

Not God.


So no.

I meant for God, not of God. Jesus the man was the flesh that the spirit of the Father dwelled in. Just like the Fathers spirit dwells in us. The difference is since Jesus' flesh was sinless, he could hold the FULLNESS of God, and ourselves only in part because we are sinners

But whats funny is if you believe in the pagan trinity and think this is pagan. The trinity was invented in pagan Rome by a bunch of pagan "christian" compromisers

 

[Der Alte]

I meant for God, not of God. Jesus the man was the flesh that the spirit of the Father dwelled in. Just like the Fathers spirit dwells in us. The difference is since Jesus' flesh was sinless, he could hold the FULLNESS of God, and ourselves only in part because we are sinners

None of this is supported by any scripture. It is just assumpton/presupposition.

But whats funny is if you believe in the pagan trinity and think this is pagan. The trinity was invented in pagan Rome by a bunch of pagan "christian" compromisers

Nonsense! When did all this supposedly happen? Are you talking about the council of Nicaea in 325 AD? Nicaea was in Turkey, it is not Rome. Why would any Christians who had endured and survived Roman persecution for years suddenly just give up and let anyone force anything false on the church? Do you think Constantine had something to do with it? Constantine was an Arian, same thing as JW, which did not believe in the Trinity. If Constantine was going to force anything on the church, it would have been Arianism. He had the military power he could have done almost anything he wanted.

 

[dragongunner]

Trinity......believed in it cause thats what I was taught. Grew older and started reading the bible for myself.....Trinity....getting more and more confused....started asking questions...started studying.......Trinity, first created my a false teacher called Tertullian who believed 3 gods created the earth and man....2 centuries later, the church no longer resembles what it did in acts, it has fallen to false prophets and self appointed, division and corruption are rampant among the "spiritual" leaders who no longer have the Holy Ghost. They want to come up with a doctrine and name for Tertullians doctrine to help explain in there eyes what God is and how it should be believed. It is formulted and finally approved at the Counsel of Nicea in 325 A.D. The Dark Ages begin as the church slides in deeper Darkness.....for coming yrs. Brothers and Sisters in Christ, believing in the Word of God are killed by the Roman Catholic church.....some of the hertic sins range from not believeg in the Holy trinity, not believing in infant baptism, not stating that Mary is the mother of God. Many in Christ die being burned at the stake...literally. Martin Luther takes a stand and slowly the church begins to come out of the Dark ages. King James divorces himself from the Catholics and orders the scriptures to be translated, Which up to that time anyone no one dared for fear of the Catholic church who would never allow it. Speed up to the early 1900's in America and the Holy Ghost is poured out in Kansas and California....since that time the Word of God has come alive, Knowledge even in spiritual things have increased.......but for some reason.....trinatarians still keep holding and worshipping a man made doctrine. Trinity is not in the bible so now they say the doctrine is......it is not. And if it is, then why do we need it....? God declares who and what he is, explains his GODHEAD. But man seeking his own understanding thinks he knows best, thinks he knows how to make the word of God better......as if God isn't smart enough to explain it, as if God needs help. Trinity is a mockery, it flies in the face of God and says 'YOU did not explain it good enough, but we are wise, we will explain it better. You God should of said Trinity....You God should of said "I am the first person of the trinity, and Jesus is the 2nd person and the Holy Ghost is the 3rd person, all co-equal, co existent". And if you don't believe in the man made doctrine of the trinity you are a heretic.

Beware lest ANY man spoil you through PHILOSOPHY and vain deceit, after the TRADITION of MEN, after the RUDIMENTS of the world, and not after CHRIST. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the GODHEAD bodily.

 

[donfish06]

None of this is supported by any scripture. It is just assumpton/presupposition.



Nonsense! When did all this supposedly happen? Are you talking about the council of Nicaea in 325 AD? Nicaea was in Turkey, it is not Rome. Why would any Christians who had endured and survived Roman persecution for years suddenly just give up and let anyone force anything false on the church? Do you think Constantine had something to do with it? Constantine was an Arian, same thing as JW, which did not believe in the Trinity. If Constantine was going to force anything on the church, it would have been Arianism. He had the military power he could have done almost anything he wanted.

Of course it is backed by scripture. Click one of the links in my signature.

Touche on the turkey thing, but Constantine made a political move and joined the Christian beliefs with the multi-god beliefs of the pagans. And BOOM, you mysteriously have one God that is 3 but 1 but still 3.

There is no historical record of any trinity baptism until 2nd century I believe. The original church baptized in Jesus' Name because

Father/ Son / Holy Ghost
Lord/ Jesus / Christ

the Lord Jesus Christ IS the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (God)

No Jew would ever believe in 3 gods like trinity teaches, and before you retort with "neither do they believe in Jesus," there is a reason for that. The Bible says that God blinded them for OUR sakes.

 

[Der Alte]

Of course it is backed by scripture. Click one of the links in my signature.

Sorry I don't have the time or the interest to chase down every link that someone posts here. If you think you have scripture to back something up, post it, here or forever hold your peace. I'll be waiting right here and if you do copy/paste something, please have the integrity to cite your source.

Touche on the turkey thing, but Constantine made a political move and joined the Christian beliefs with the multi-god beliefs of the pagans. And BOOM, you mysteriously have one God that is 3 but 1 but still 3.

Garbanzo beans. No zero, none,evidence. Constantine was an Arian he did not believe in the trinity. If he was going to force anything on the church it would have been Arianism.

There is no historical record of any trinity baptism until 2nd century I believe. The original church baptized in Jesus' Name because

Father/ Son / Holy Ghost
Lord/ Jesus / Christ

There is not one single baptism recorded in the NT where the words "in Jesus name" were spoken. There are only 2 actual baptisms decscribed in the NT, where the candidate and the officiator go into the water, the person is baptized, and they both come out of the water, Jesus and the Ethiopian. At Jesus' baptism the only words spoken were by the father. At the baptism of the Ethiopian no words at all are recorded. Since, according to you, the words "in the name of Jesus" are mandatory Peter's baptism was not valid. How could a disciple of Jesus perform a baptism without saying the mandatory words "in Jesus name?"

There are thirty seven references to baptism in the NT only four make reference to "in the name of," Act 2:38, "in the name of Jesus Christ." Act 8:16, "in the name of the Lord Jesus." Act 10:48, "in the name of the Lord." and Act 19:5, "in the name of the Lord Jesus." Not one describes a baptism and the person saying "I baptize you in the name of..." Act 2:38, and 10:48 are commands to baptize. Acts 8:16 and 19:5 refer to baptisms that had been conducted. Act 10:48 could refer to the Father who is also called Lord. Which one of these three is the correct formula?

What does "baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit" mean? Baptize them in the authority of all three.

Act 4:7 And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this?​

the Lord Jesus Christ IS the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (God)

This is wrong, it contradicts the very word of God.

Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD [[SIZE="+1"]יהוה[/SIZE]] God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this [[SIZE="+1"]יהוה[/SIZE]] is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.​

Now is still part of forever and we are part of all generations, God's name is still [SIZE="+1"]יהוה[/SIZE], not Jesus or [size=+1]ישׁוּע[/size]

No Jew would ever believe in 3 gods like trinity teaches, and before you retort with "neither do they believe in Jesus," there is a reason for that. The Bible says that God blinded them for OUR sakes.

So God blinded them about Jesus but not about the Trinity. Who gave you the authority to speak for what no Jew would or would not believe. There seem to be a lot of Jews who believe in the Trinity at Jews for Jesus, and they show it from the OT.

 

[donfish06]

Here are some scriptures for you:

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. \

Joh 4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

So, who is our saviour, Jehovah (LORD) or Christ?

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Who is the first and the last, Jehovah, or Jesus?

Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Who is coming back with the saints, Jehovah, or Jesus?

Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Who was Jesus' Father??? Was it Father, or Holy Ghost? Did he have 2 Fathers?

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Jesus said this when he was here on earth. How can the Son of man be on earth and in heaven at the same time??

Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Who was sitting on the throne? Why is there only one? where are the other two? Why do so many other Bible translations change this scripture?

Isa 33:22 For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us

Isn't Jesus our King?

Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

So who, then, is the judge, Jehovah, or Jesus?

Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Why does Jesus call himself the I am?

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

There is ONE GOD. We can see him through Jesus, who is the IMAGE of GOD

 

[barryrob]

But whats funny is if you believe in the pagan trinity and think this is pagan. The trinity was invented in pagan Rome by a bunch of pagan "christian" compromisers

That is very very true!

barry

 

[joneysd]

did pagan romans inspire the bible...

 

[barryrob]

Here are some scriptures for you:

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. \

Joh 4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

So, who is our saviour, Jehovah (LORD) or Christ?

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Who is the first and the last, Jehovah, or Jesus?

Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Who is coming back with the saints, Jehovah, or Jesus?

Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Who was Jesus' Father??? Was it Father, or Holy Ghost? Did he have 2 Fathers?

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Jesus said this when he was here on earth. How can the Son of man be on earth and in heaven at the same time??

Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Who was sitting on the throne? Why is there only one? where are the other two? Why do so many other Bible translations change this scripture?

Isa 33:22 For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us

Isn't Jesus our King?

Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

So who, then, is the judge, Jehovah, or Jesus?

Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Why does Jesus call himself the I am?

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

There is ONE GOD. We can see him through Jesus, who is the IMAGE of GOD

An "Image" is just a copy.

barry

 

[joneysd]

I think there is more than enough scripture to support the trinity.

 

[joneysd]

That makes Jesus a demigod and that is pagan!!!

Not God.


So no.

hang on the NWT makes Jesus a god, does that make the nwt a pagan book?

 

[Phantasman]

hang on the NWT makes Jesus a god, does that make the nwt a pagan book?

I guess it's a POV. IF Jesus is not God, the Bible may be considered pagan.

Since the Bible never says there is or isn't a Trinity (as defined by the Nicene Creed), it's safe to say that it's whatever the individual perceives.

 

[joneysd]

I guess it's a POV. IF Jesus is not God, the Bible may be considered pagan.

Since the Bible never says there is or isn't a Trinity (as defined by the Nicene Creed), it's safe to say that it's whatever the individual perceives.

i think it is very different from the bible to the NWT, the bible to me makes it clear about the deity of Jesus but some will interpret as the other way round so as you rightly say it is how the individual perceives it but the NWT makes it quite clear that Jesus is not God, infact Jesus to them is actually Michael which is very odd..

 

[DrBubbaLove]

If Jesus is not God, how does He speak with God's Authority?

(the winds and wave obey)

 

[barryrob]

If Jesus is not God, how does He speak with God's Authority?

(the winds and wave obey)

Because power was "GIVEN" to him by someone much stronger, the now he called "My God"!

Matthew 28:18

​

And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been GIVEN me in heaven and on the earth.

barry​

 

[barryrob]

hang on the NWT makes Jesus a god, does that make the nwt a pagan book?

"A god" but not half human like the trinity does what it say Jesus was God on earth, which is totally impossible!!

Jesus at very best is a an exact image or copy of God.

barry

 

[barryrob]

I think there is more than enough scripture to support the trinity.

Not so:-

“The Lamb of God” not God The Lamb, if Jesus Christ was God?​

John 1:29​

“The next day he beheld Jesus coming toward him, and he said: “See, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world!”

John 1:35-36​

“Again the next day John was standing with two of his disciples, 36 and as he looked at Jesus walking he said: “See, the Lamb of God!””

Eng.
the Lamb of the God
o amnoV tou qeou
ho amnos tou theou

“Of God” in the above context means:-
“of prep. expressing: …. 4 identity or close relation (city of Rome; a pound of apples; a fool of a man)…”-Oxford Dictionary

The above shows how Jesus Christ was viewed by the faithful Jewish man, John, as relating to the sacrificial “Lamb” from God. He did not say ‘God the Lamb’ or the like.

“Of” is a “preposition n. Gram. word governing (and usu. preceding) a noun or pronoun and expressing a relation to another word, as in: ‘the man on the platform’, ‘came after dinner’, ‘went by train’. prepositional adj. [Latin praepono -posit- place before].”-Oxford Dictionary

A similar expression as the above at John Ch. 1 showing that something has a relationship toward or with God is at:-

2 Tim 3:17 “that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.”

Eng.
the of the God man
o tou qeou anqrwpoV
ho tou theou anthropos

Further examples of “of God.”:-
Matthew 5:9 sons of God. . .
8:29 Son of God?. . .
12:4 How he entered into the house of God . . .
12:28 the kingdom of God . . .
5:6 YOU have made the word of God invalid
19:24 the kingdom of God. . .
22:16 the way of God . . .
22:29 In reply Jesus said to them: “YOU are mistaken, because YOU know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God. . .
23:22 the throne of God . . .
26:63 you are the Christ the Son of God!”

Mark 1:14 Jesus went into Galilee, preaching the good news of God
1:24 I know exactly who you are, the Holy One of God.. . .
3:35 Whoever does the will of God, this one is my brother and sister and mother.”
7:8 Letting go the commandment of God
2:14 you teach the way of God . . .
2:24 the power of God?

Luke 3:38 [son] of God.
4:34 the Holy One of God.. .
5:1 the word of God. . .

John 1:6 representative of God: . . .
1:34 the Son of God.. . .
1:51 the angels of God . . .
3:18 the only-begotten Son of God.. . .
3:34 For the one whom God sent forth speaks the sayings of God, . . .
3:36 the wrath of God . . .
5:42 love of God . . .
6:33 For the bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
6:69 that you are the Holy One of God.”

Acts 2:33 the right hand of God . . .
4:31 the word of God . . .
8:14 Samaria had accepted the word of God, . . .
8:20 the free gift of God.
13:36 the express will of God . . .
18:7 a worshiper of God. . .
18:11 the word of God.
18:26 the way of God . . .
20:27 the counsel of God.
20:28 shepherd the congregation of God,. . .

barry

 

[barryrob]

did pagan romans inspire the bible...

No, they just used it.

 

[joneysd]

No, they just used it.

so the word of God isn't in error just their perception of what it said, just checking.