The Timing of The Seventh Trumpet

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Revelation is written using progressive parallelism. This means that the same facts are retold several times from different perspectives or in varying levels of detail. For example, Satan’s Doom, which is briefly described in Revelation 20:7-10 is the shortened version of the same events told in Revelation 9 to 19.

Knowing the style of writing used in Revelation we know that simply reading from start to finish does not give us a true chronological picture. We must recognize parallel events throughout the chapters in order to put them in the correct order. This writing will identify several of those parallelisms, while attempting to prove the timing of the trumpets.

The seventh trumpet is one of the most significant and certainly the easiest to understand of all the trumpets. It introduces some of the final events of our time. Such as the establishment of God’s kingdom, the outpouring of God’s wrath and the final judgment.

We will begin however with the most controversial of all Christian beliefs, the rapture. I don’t like to use that word “rapture” because I think it is misleading, so I will refer to this event as our final resurrection or transformation. Whatever you like to call this event it is the event described by Paul in 1 Thess 4:17 and it takes place just before the seventh trumpet sounds.

Revelation 10:6-7 "There will be no more delay! But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished".

Just before the seventh trumpet sounds, the mystery will be accomplished. The mystery of God is the final resurrection and transformation of the righteous into eternal life.

1 Corinthians 2:7 No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
1 Corinthians 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—


Now, let’s try to establish when, in relation to other events, is the seventh trumpet blown.

When the seventh trumpet blows, Revelation tells us three things.

  • The kingdom of God begins and he will reign forever and ever.
  • God’s wrath has come.
  • Time for the judging of the dead (death is thrown into the lake of fire).
So we see that God’s everlasting kingdom begins when the seventh trumpet blows, which means that for this to happen before the millennium, the millennium must be (a part of) God’s everlasting kingdom. But can God’s everlasting kingdom begin when we know that Satan will be released again in a thousand years? How is that possible? How is it possible for Satan to be released into God’s perfect kingdom? And since we know that God’s kingdom is to last “forever and ever” we can not put a thousand year limit on it. In other words, it’s impossible to reconcile God’s kingdom beginning before Satan is released from his prison to deceive the nations. Using simple logic we can see that the millennium is not God’s kingdom and God’s kingdom must begin after Satan is done away with, after the millennium.

But if that’s not enough, we also know that the judging of the dead (which begins at the 7th trumpet) happens after Satan is thrown into the lake of fire. And, at the time of judging, “death and Hades” are thrown into the lake of fire, so there is no more death after the time of judging which begins when the seventh trumpet blows. How then can this trumpet blow before the millennium? We know that Satan will bring the armies of the earth against Jerusalem after the millennium, but if there is no more death, then what’s the point? If you can’t kill anyone, why have an army? This proves that when Satan is released from his prison, after the millennium, death has not yet been thrown into the lake of fire. Which means that the seventh trumpet can not have blown before the millennium.

Now let’s see how the harvest and wrath fit into all of this.

Revelation 14:14-19. This passage describes the “harvest of the earth” and the “grapes of wrath”. The harvest of the earth is the second resurrection. This happens just before the seventh trumpet is blown. Then the harvest of the grapes happens just after the seventh trumpet is blown. We know this because the description of the grapes being trampled is a description of the pouring out of God's seven bowls of wrath. The seven bowls are God's wrath. Not the seals or the trumpets, only the bowls. So the seventh trumpet blows just after our resurrection/transformation and before wrath.

Now notice the similarities between the grapes of wrath and what happens to Satan after the millennium.

The Grapes of Wrath

Notice when the grapes of wrath are gathered, they are "trampled in the winepress outside the city" (Revelation 14:20). When the beast and his armies are defeated by Jesus (after Satan had been released from his prison) they had "surrounded the city". In this description in Revelation 20:7-10, it is explained that fire comes down from heaven and devours them. This fire is the sharp sickle that harvests the grapes of wrath.

Notice also in the description of the grapes being trampled in the winepress that it relates the depth of the blood to "horses bridles". The horses are representative of an army. Clearly when the grapes are trampled outside the city it is an army surrounding the city. Just as depicted in Revelation 20:7-10.

So the description of the grapes being trampled in the winepress of God’s wrath is the same event described in Revelation 20, which we know happens after the millennium.

The Battle of Armageddon is similarly depicted several different ways in Revelation.

The Battle of Armageddon

The first reference to the battle of Armageddon is in Revelation 16:12-16

12 Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great Euphrates River, and it dried up so that the kings from the east could march their armies toward the west without hindrance. 13 And I saw three evil[a] spirits that looked like frogs leap from the mouths of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. 14 They are demonic spirits who work miracles and go out to all the rulers of the world to gather them for battle against the Lord on that great judgment day of God the Almighty.

15 “Look, I will come as unexpectedly as a thief! Blessed are all who are watching for me, who keep their clothing ready so they will not have to walk around naked and ashamed.”

16 And the demonic spirits gathered all the rulers and their armies to a place with the Hebrew name Armageddon.


“Armageddon” is the Hebrew word for “Megiddo” which is a place about 100 km north of Jerusalem. This is where they gather to prepare for battle. Notice that this description is part of the sixth bowl, which is after the harvest of the earth.

The second reference to this battle is in Revelation 19:19. Here the word Armageddon is not used but the description is the same.

Revelation 19:19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army.

The third reference to this battle is in Revelation 20:7-10. This description is clear that the battle happens after the thousand years are over.

Revelation 20:7-10 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

In all three references, Satan gathers all the armies of the earth and marches against Jerusalem. Clearly they are all describing the same event. Which proves that the trumpets and bowls all take place after the millennium.

And most importantly, when the seventh bowl is poured out, God says “it is done!”. It can not be done if Satan still has some cards to play. It can only be done when it is all done. That is irrefutable.
 

papaJP

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Revelation is written using progressive parallelism. This means that the same facts are retold several times from different perspectives or in varying levels of detail. For example, Satan’s Doom, which is briefly described in Revelation 20:7-10 is the shortened version of the same events told in Revelation 9 to 19.

Knowing the style of writing used in Revelation we know that simply reading from start to finish does not give us a true chronological picture. We must recognize parallel events throughout the chapters in order to put them in the correct order. This writing will identify several of those parallelisms, while attempting to prove the timing of the trumpets.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I am and have been trying to create a time line for revelations and I agree with most of what you say here. I find it is somewhat unproductive to isolate certain occurances in trying to understand the time line that is hidden.
However, I am continuing to study and pray for revelations. They are coming but are slow. Continue to study and let me know how you are doing as my study and commentary on Revelations is a work in progress.
 
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NJBeliever

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As has been said in the past, any theory which involves rearrranging the divinely numbered seals, trumpets and vials of Revelation is inevitably wrong. They are sequential.

The only other thing I will note is that the third Heaven is outside of time, so statements made by beings who live there must be read and understood in this light (I.e., Jesus being slain from the foundation of the world yet we read his death on the cross asbeing 2000 years ago).
 
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LastSeven

Amil
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Notice that John first wrote Rev. 15 and then later Rev. 8?

How do we know - that John saw the signs before he wrote Rev. 8?

In Rev. 15:1 is where we find that he introduced us to "seven angels" as a set.

In Rev. 8:2 John again mentions them.
as - the seven angels

That's an interesting determination, but weak. We don't know if they are the same seven angels that hold the seven bowls. It doesn't say. And just because he describes them as "the" seven angels does not necessarily mean that he's written about them before. He's probably just describing them that way because these particular angels always stand before God.

Also, when Rev 8:2 mentions "the seven angels" it could be referring to the seven angels that John saw in Revelation 1 " The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches".

But either way, God has many angels so I don't think we can definitively say that the seven angels who blow the trumpets are the same angels who pour out the bowls. And we certainly can't definitively say that the bowls are poured out before the trumpets.
 
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LastSeven

Amil
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The trumpets are to happen before the time of silence - and before the vials of God's wrath.

The mystery of God - is not going to include all of what was plannned, - as the seven thunders part was sealed.
The vials - will be done to completion.
Jesus will return at the end of both of these sets of plagues.

Look at what happens in Rev. 11:18- as to the 7th trumpet sounds.
time to reward
/so here is the time of the resurrection of the just

See Luke 14:14.

Why do you say the trumpets are blown before the time of silence? When you say "time of silence" you are referring to the seventh seal, are you not?
 
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LastSeven

Amil
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At the 7th trumpet only the righteous are judged of the saints.
After the 1000 years - the wicked dead are raised and none of them can get eternal life.
The other living will be separated as sheep and goats - the sheep will get eternal life.
Then will come later the new heaven and new earth.

As I said in my opening post, the seventh trumpet can not be blown before the millennium because it ushers in resurrection, wrath and judging. All things that we know occur after the millennium.

When the seventh trumpet is blown, the judging begins, which starts with death and Hades being thrown into the lake of fire. If death is thrown into the lake of fire at the start of the millennium, then why does Satan amass an army after the millennium? Will his army have the power to kill? If not, then why bother?

Clearly there will still be death after the millennium, which means the seventh trumpet can not have been blown yet.
 
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LastSeven

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As has been said in the past, any theory which involves rearrranging the divinely numbered seals, trumpets and vials of Revelation is inevitably wrong. They are sequential.

The only other thing I will note is that the third Heaven is outside of time, so statements made by beings who live there must be read and understood in this light (I.e., Jesus being slain from the foundation of the world yet we read his death on the cross asbeing 2000 years ago).

I agree that the seals, trumpets and vials are sequential, but that doesn't mean all of the descriptions in Revelation are sequential.
 
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zeke37

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hi

here's my take...
God's last day is a 1000 years as we relate time today....
and on that day, a lot will happen.....

-we are in the final generation before Christ arrives...
-we all go through the "hour of temptation"...and are all tested.
-the church does not leave the planet and avoid the end time test.
-there is a soon coming world political system to be set up...
-it will fail because of war...and receive a deadly wound...
-it should whither and die but it does not,

because at that time, when it fails, and all out war should erupt on the earth....
Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven and to the earth for their short season...

-Satan comes, and deceives the world, making a grand entrance and pretending to be the returned Christ...
-his appearance saves the broken world system and the world unites around him...
-all but the chosen elect witnesses (not all Christians are elect witnesses) will be seduced by the false Christ's lies,
and worship him thinking he is Jesus....
-the seduced ones will accept his "kingdom"

God Himself has blinded some believers to the truth, so He can save them later, in the Millennium,
apparently after they have learned the lesson that they needed to learn by failing the test of the son of Perdition(Satan).

-Christ arrives and defeats Satan, binds him a thousand years....
-the Millennium begins...1000 years
-all flesh on earth is changed into the heaven like spiritual body at Christ's arrival
-they all go through the entire 1000 years in incorruptible bodies (not immortal)

-only the elect from the past (including many martyrs), and the elect witnesses that stayed faithful through the end time events,
are made both incorruptible AND immortal at Christ's Coming

-in that time, the 1000 year day of the Lord, all the "believers" (that God Himself blinded to truth) that were fooled by Satan's false Christ role, have the oppertunity to be saved.

-in that Millennium, they are led and judged by the elect witnesses who have already overcome.

-at the end of that time, Satan is released from his 1000 year bondage and gathers all those that do not believe, against all those that do...

-the "rest of the dead" are "resurrected"

-and then come final Judgment and God's ultimate wrath as He destroys the souls of those that gathered against His people.

glad to go over any/all of it with you, via scripture if ya wanna...


but my conclusion is that the 7th trump/7th vial ushers in the 1000 year last day
and a lot happens on that last day
 
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NJBeliever

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I agree that the seals, trumpets and vials are sequential, but that doesn't mean all of the descriptions in Revelation are sequential.

Oh I see what you mean. But I still disagree. There are certain things that will happen before Jesus and The Lord God the Father reign. The antichrist will be destroyed before Jesus reigns on Earth. Jesus is going to reign during a time when there will be no antichrist, false prophet or satan (he will have been locked in the bottomless put for the duration). The antichrist is the false Christ of this world (greek word aion for "age" or "period of time"). This world will end when Jesus returns in Revelation 19. That is it for this world. It's over. THe Millenial world will be a regenerated Earth restored to the likeness of the world at the time of the Garden of Eden. This is why the prophets detail people living longer lives and animals no longer being carnivorous. So the antichrist is long gone by this time and Armageddon is long over.

Also please note that the final destruction of Satan is carried by God The Father, who brings down fire from Heaven. This is a different battle from Aramgeddon which is won by Jesus and the brightness of His appearance.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

This is Jesus referring to the Millenium. He shall be King of the world, not Satan and not antichrist. They no longer have any part to play (until the very end when Satan is loosed one last time). So the events of Revelation 19 and Revelation 20 are in fact detailed in chronological order. They are not the same events being described "over and over and over again"
 
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LastSeven

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NJBeliever said:
THe Millenial world will be a regenerated Earth restored to the likeness of the world at the time of the Garden of Eden.

NJ, you are saying that the earth will be renewed before the millennium begins? That's interesting for a number of reasons. For one, you say that Revelation is written sequentially, yet now you're saying that the earth is renewed before Satan is released from his prison. That's not the order in which it is written.

Besides that, how can you possibly claim that the earth is renewed at the start of the millennium?

Revelation 21 describes the new earth and verse 4 says "there will be no more death". Yet, you're saying that a thousand years later, Satan will assemble an army to try to "kill" God's people. How can he do that if there is no more death?

How can any of this happen before Satan is thrown into the lake of fire?
 
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LastSeven

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Start looking for how John writes to us.
Rev. 15:6
"And the seven angels came..."

not another set of seven angels came

I get what you're saying and it makes sense, but this is what I believe they call "circumstantial evidence". It's not proof by any means.

It sounds like it's possible that John was talking about the same set of angels but we can't know for sure, and we can't make that determination solely on the basis of the use of the word "the".

It's possible that you're right, it's possible that you're wrong. I think you're wrong because it would throw everything else out of whack.
 
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LastSeven

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Look too at Rev. 22:10 as it refers to a book that contains things not sealed.

"...seal not the sayings of this book..."

Why?
What book?
But John sealed the seven thunders part earlier - so what book is this referring to?
It is about the little book that John ate as he was to tell more prophecy information.

Rev. 10:2
"...a little book..."
With the 7th trumpet- the mystery of God ends, but there was more to prophesy.
so this - little book containing messages - eaten by John - was not part of the trumpet time - or as in part of the mystery of God

Not sure where you're going with this.
 
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