The Timing of the Rapture

[JM]

The Bible is about the dominion of Jesus Christ. It's not about the rapture or the antichrist or bowl judgements, or whatever. That's all pointing to Jesus Christ's dominion and rule, the point all biblical eschatology is that Jesus Christ reigns and is God which should embolden all of us to reach the lost for His sake.

I would recommend the resources posted here: Post Millennialism safe house

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

You quote “tribes” but then change it to “nations”. Why is that?

I read the Bible usually in my own language, and know this verse in my language, I didn't notice the esv has the word 'tribes' in it which my native language doesn't. Even other English translations have all the people of the earth. Either way... it says tribes of the Earth, not Israel. The question then is, why is everyone mourning when Jesus returns, why is no one happy?

 

[Hammster]

I read the Bible usually in my own language, and know this verse in my language, I didn't notice the esv has the word 'tribes' in it which my native language doesn't. Even other English translations have all the people of the earth. Either way... it says tribes of the Earth, not Israel. The question then is, why is everyone mourning when Jesus returns, why is no one happy?

Everyone isn’t mourning. The tribes are mourning because they know that the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple is judgement from God.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Everyone isn’t mourning. The tribes are mourning because they know that the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple is judgement from God.

It says of the Earth...not Israel. Matthew 24 is not only about the destruction of the temple...but I already know we will disagree on this.

I think the only thing the Church agrees about the end times is that Jesus will return. If anyone has 2 hours to spare, I recommend this

discussion on premillennialism, amillennialism, postmillennialism where all three sides have some good arguments, showing why this discussion is so difficult and complex.

 

[Hammster]

It says of the Earth...not Israel. Matthew 24 is not only about the destruction of the temple...but I already know we will disagree on this.

I think the only thing the Church agrees about the end times is that Jesus will return. If anyone has 2 hours to spare, I recommend this

discussion on premillennialism, amillennialism, postmillennialism where all three sides have some good arguments, showing why this discussion is so difficult and complex.

I know it says earth. That’s where the tribes were at the time. What it doesn’t say is nations.

And Doug Wilson is right.

 

[MarshallBryant]

Basics
This is not a treatise but a very rough sketch:

Pre Millennialism - The millennial is a future event.
Post Millennialism - We are already in the Millennial
Ahmillenialism - The Millennium is figurative and not an actual event.

Pre Tribulation Rapture - Christ returns in the air to collect the Church before the Tribulation.

Mid Tribulation Rapture - Christ returns in the air to collect his Church before the lat 3 1/2 year GREAT Tribulation.

Post Tribulation Rapture - The Church is Raptured at the same time as the return of Christ to the ground with a new resurected body.

The seven year Tribulation is generally associated with dispensationalism and the separate 7 year time at the end of the 70 weeks of years given to Daniel.

Under this idea, the dispensation of the Church is replaced with the Completion of the Israeli Dispensation at the Rapture.

Others may correct or add to this quick summary of the basics.

I've personally been a Pre-trib Pre-Millinnealist all my life due to the doctrine of eminence. But I am beginning to consider the possibility that the Churches Dispensation may overlap the 7 year 70th week of years for various reasons.

 

[MarshallBryant]

Just as the Church began before the destruction of Israel, is it not also possible the 70th Week of Daniel will begin before the Rapture? One of the pre-trib arguments is insistence that the 70th week can only commence with the Rapture.

The appearance of tribulation Saints might be more easily explained with an overlap of the Church with the restored Israel 70th week.

I'm quite comfortable with a whole Bible dispensational revelation with a coming healing of the breach between Israel and Church in the fullness of GODs timing. I just wonder about some of the details, even while knowing they are ultimately unimportant.

 

[classical5]

That's the rapture, that Christians who are living will meet Jesus in the air at Christ's return. According to historical premillenialism, this happens at the end of the great tribulation.

Dispensationalism, on the other hand, teaches two second comings, one for Christians before the rapture and another at the end.

In preTrib rapture there is only one Second Coming of Christ. The preTrib rapture is Jesus taking His people out, He does not return at that time. Jesus returns at the end of the tribulation.

 

[Michael Snow]

How would you interpret 1 Thessalonians 4:17?

Christ’s Coming: 1 Thessalonians vs. ‘Left Behind’

 

[power1]

If the pretribulation rapture weren't contrary to the plain meaning of scripture and the post-tribulation rapture premillennialism taught in the early church, I'd probably be a dispensationalist.

The Anabaptists, the historical forerunners of the Baptist faith, believed in premillenialism but not a pre-tribulation rapture, which would have gone against their ethos to endure suffering and persecution in love for Christ.

What did Jesus actually teach regarding the timing of the rapture?

Matthew 24:13
But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

The one of whom? The one alive at that time. If we are gathered up to be with Him in the air before that, we would not be one of the ones in the one talked about.

Matthew 24
40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

That has to be at the time Jesus comes back with His saints? Why?
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