• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

The Time We Live In : Gog and Magog

Dustoff

Active Member
May 28, 2017
90
73
Ontario
✟119,159.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Yes, I could see that way of reading it. What do you think about the idea of Israel dwelling in peace at the time of the attack?

Well peace seems to be breaking out all over there right now. Normalizing relations with a number of Arab countries is happening. It could be referring to the same issues as the Yom Kippur war. An unexpected devastating surprise attack. Meaning no real problems with the neighbors people just going about their daily lives No serious concerns about safety etc. For sure when it does occur all the pieces will line up.
 
Upvote 0

Dustoff

Active Member
May 28, 2017
90
73
Ontario
✟119,159.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
the end times began at Jesus’ 1st advent, according to scripture. The end times beginning in 1948 would be a personal interpretation.


I think that could be true in a general sense. Mostly because I think there is far more history between the garden and the flood than the general view of a 1000 yrs or so. Also the flood to the cross. Just to be clear I don't agree with the gap theory or that the world is millions or billions of years old. Although thats the topic of another post.
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Site Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,559
4,834
59
Oregon
✟901,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I think that could be true in a general sense.

Could be true?
Are you saying what is written in scripture only "could be" true?

What other scriptures do you insist only "could be" true?

The Resurrection "could be" true?

Salvation by grace through faith "could be" true?

The Virgin Birth "could be" True?

Jesus' Sinless life "could be" true?

You might want to seriously think twice before you dig yourself into that hole....

Anyway, This doesn't sound very "general" to me:

Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.

In fact John appears to find it specific enough to hammer the point home to his audience by saying it twice..

What exactly do you find "general" in the phrase "We KNOW it IS the LAST HOUR"?

What do you think they KNEW it was the last hour of, back in the 1st century?

What did John think it was the Last hour of, back in the 1st century?

How would John's original audience have interpreted His words here?

"Generally"?

Would they have said to themselves... "well, he sounds emphatic enough, even repeating his claim twice in once sentence, but we should probably interpret his words to mean exactly the opposite of what they say"

Really?
Why would you iterpret this scripture to mean exactly the opposite of what it says?

Are there other scriptures that you apply a polar opposite interpretation to their actual text, or is this the only one?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Leaf473

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2020
9,301
2,554
55
Northeast
✟239,849.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi keras,

That certainly is a possibility, for things to play out as you describe.

Sounds like the attack described in Ezekiel 38 and 39 would be a while in the future then.

Do you think there will be a reversion to Old technologies to match up with the prophecies about burning the weapons and the horses?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Leaf473

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2020
9,301
2,554
55
Northeast
✟239,849.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I never saw that before, that Jesus was sacrificed at the end of the ages.

I love reading and studying prophecy, but this is the kind of thing that makes me wary of trying to pin things down too much.

Are we living at the end of the ages? Yes. And so were the original readers of Hebrews. But they probably had no idea that the end of the ages would last for 2000 years or more.
 
Reactions: yellowMan
Upvote 0

Leaf473

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2020
9,301
2,554
55
Northeast
✟239,849.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I could see that, and it's not like we have to agree on this.

The passage talks about a land without walls, if I remember right.

Israel today has both literal and symbolic walls, and some of those I think are still under construction.

Peace!

Great discussion, by the way!
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
15,106
2,595
84
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟352,121.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
It is what the Bible Prophets describe and their [all the faithful Christian peoples] living in peace, without fortifications or even any military protection, certainly does not match the Israel of today.

I see this scenario and all the end time events, leading up the the glorious Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign, as happening within the next 20 years.

Although the Prophets had to describe warfare as they knew it and horses and spears are metaphors; we will still have vehicles, guns and explosives. However; fuel and ammunition may be hard to get.
This will be because the Lord's Day of fiery wrath will destroy our modern infrastructure. Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 24, +
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Site Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,559
4,834
59
Oregon
✟901,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Are we living at the end of the ages? Yes. And so were the original readers of Hebrews. But they probably had no idea that the end of the ages would last for 2000 years or more.

So the terms "end of the ages", "Last Days" etc, are actually meaningless then?
They have no discernable meaning to the reader?
 
Reactions: Leaf473
Upvote 0

Leaf473

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2020
9,301
2,554
55
Northeast
✟239,849.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Within the next 20 years? well it'll be interesting to see how it plays out then, if I'm alive!
 
Upvote 0

Leaf473

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2020
9,301
2,554
55
Northeast
✟239,849.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So the terms "end of the ages", "Last Days" etc, are actually meaningless then?
They have no discernable meaning to the reader?
I think they have meaning, but the people back then may not have been interpreting them right, and we may not be interpreting them right.

Peace
 
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,417
575
58
Mount Morris
✟148,028.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
So the terms "end of the ages", "Last Days" etc, are actually meaningless then?
They have no discernable meaning to the reader?
Out of context;

28 so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin, but to deliver those who are eagerly waiting for him.

You know that indefinite period of time...
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,020
✟843,047.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married

You refer numerous times to Israel and Jews, but without definition.

What qualifying criteria does God use to identify a Jew/Israelite?

1. Physical DNA
2. Religion
3. Culture
4. Domicile
5. ?
 
Upvote 0

Dustoff

Active Member
May 28, 2017
90
73
Ontario
✟119,159.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
All of the above to varying degrees. Jewish people are well defined around the world and always have been. The church hasn't replaced them. Rom 11.

I don't enjoy engaging in the kind of discussions you're initiating. Partly because I don't have the time. Partly because I don't have the interest. No disrespect intended. It's just not for me. Dispensationalism & Amill etc doesn't interest me other than academically occasionally.

I based everything I said on 2 passages. Matt. 25 & Ezek. 38-39 A plain reading of Ezek. says to me it has never been fulfilled. Matt. 25 says clearly in reference to the return of Christ that he will delay his coming. It's obviously my opinion that those two scriptures go with modern history. but I think I made a good reference for it.

I'm willing to engage with anyone to discuss debate be proved wrong disagreed with or otherwise shouted out of the room but it needs to be on the basis of what I said.
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,020
✟843,047.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married

The entire human race qualifies as genetically Jewish via more than 3,000 years of natural genetic dispersion and diffusion since Abraham.

Example of the mathematical confirmation of ancestral genetic ubiquity

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

Under the Israeli Law of Return, as long as an individual has not embraced another religion, e.g. Christianity, he or she would qualify as a Jew.

So if I renounce my Christianity, I'm in as one of the chosen people.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
29,992
3,563
Non-dispensationalist
✟414,114.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Under the Israeli Law of Return, as long as an individual has not embraced another religion, e.g. Christianity, he or she would qualify as a Jew.
minute 0:45. Definition of who is a Jew.

 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Site Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,559
4,834
59
Oregon
✟901,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
minute 0:45. Definition of who is a Jew.


And the 2:00 mark explains how the makeup and identity of “National Israel” is not al all dependent on Jewishness.

The video explains how “National Israel” is self identified as a multi ethnic, multi cultural, multi religious melting pot.
 
Reactions: jgr
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,417
575
58
Mount Morris
✟148,028.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
So if I renounce my Christianity, I'm in as one of the chosen people.
It is not based on human government. God knows if you are lying.

Being a citizen of Israel in modern terms is just a rubber stamp of human government. Like the word Jewish has many connotations. Jew does not start with Abraham. Ishmael is not a Jew. Jews technically are only of the tribe of Judah. Maybe only of the lineage of David. Of course Solomon did not keep the lineage local.

Now it incorporates the religion of Judaism. It is the ethnic term of those living in Israel. It is like the term American. Except in Israel religion is tied to ethnicity, which is tied to citizenship.
 
Upvote 0

Dustoff

Active Member
May 28, 2017
90
73
Ontario
✟119,159.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Well if you believe as I do that the book of Revelation is mostly future and the tribulation then we will have the tribes back in the land. So someone is keeping track of who is who. I'm also of the opinion that Gods 2 witnesses will among other things set the tribal boundaries.
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,020
✟843,047.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married

The nation of Israel was multi-ethnic from its birth (Genesis 17:12) and throughout its history (Exodus 12:48;Exodus 12:49;Leviticus 19:34;Leviticus 24:22).

Physical DNA was of no significance. So what was?

Could that be two genes of spiritual DNA?

The tribe of faith and obedience.

And none other.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
15,106
2,595
84
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟352,121.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Well if you believe as I do that the book of Revelation is mostly future and the tribulation then we will have the tribes back in the land. So someone is keeping track of who is who.
My belief, is that when we Christians go to live in all of the holy Land, as seen by John in Revelation 7:9, the Lord will divide us into 12 groups.
Each named after one of the sons of Jacob.

Out of each of those groups, He will select 12,000 special people, who will go out to proclaim to the world; the coming Kingdom. Isaiah 66:19, Revelation 14:1-7
 
Upvote 0