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Featured Futurist Only The time interval from the AoD to Matthew 24:30

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Douggg, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Jesus spoke these two verses in Matthew 24.

    1. Matthew 24:15 about the AoD placed in the temple

    2. Matthew 24:30 (1) about the Sign of the Son of Man in heaven and,

    (2) His coming in the clouds of heaven, in great power and glory

    Everything seems to be referenced off the AoD placed in the holy place (the temple), Jesus referred to in Matthew 24:15. And the times given in Daniel 12:11-12 regarding the AoD setup.

    The AoD placed in the temple - then 1290 days to the sign of the Son of Man in heaven.

    The AoD placed in the temple - then 1335 days to the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven (on the 1290th day): and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory (on the 1335th day).
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
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  2. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    The prophesies say that Jesus will Return 1260 days, 42 months, or 3 1/2 years, after the AoD. That is the decreed time for the AC to have power over God's people. Revelation 13:5

    The extra 30 days after the Return, allows for the final re-gathering, Matt 24:31, of God's people from their place of safety, and the extra 75 days is the exact time between the day of Trumpets and Hanukkah, when the Temple will be cleansed and re-dedicated.
     
  3. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Are you saying from the day the AoD is placed in the temple?

    If so, where? The prophecies don't say that the AoD is placed in the temple on the exact midpoint.

    Jesus returns to end the 42 months rule of the beast in Revelation 13.
    Jesus returns to end the time, times, half time that Satan is cast down.
    Jesus returns to end the 7 years.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Keras, there are no extra 30 days (in the 1290 days).

    The 1290 days from the AoD setup are to the Sign of the Son of Man in Heaven, the sixth seal event.

    45 days later, as the kings of the earth spend that time to assemble their armies at Armageddon to prepare to fight Jesus, the 1335th day (from the AoD setup) arrives - the coming of the Son of Man in the clouds of heaven, with great power and glory.

    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven (on the 1290th day): and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory (on the 1335th day).
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  5. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    The 1290 days ends in the 6th seal when Jesus Christ is seen sitting at the
    right hand of power and returns before the 7th seal is opened.

    Then time passes - the vials are poured out and He returns as they end with His
    church that was raptured before the first vial was ever poured.

    6th seal - rapture
    7th seal - time of silence in heaven
    God will consider as foretold in Isaiah 18 in His dwelling place.
    The 1335 days end when God has let the full vials be poured out and
    He returns for Armageddon to take down the beast that came up out of
    the sea. He is not the little horn mouth. The little horn was already before
    that slain at the time of the 6th seal when the great tribulation ended - and
    none helped him.
     
  6. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    After the end of the great tribulation, the world will have to again be deceived, not
    by the little horn -he is dead then, but three frog like beings will go out doing
    miracles.
     
  7. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    Daniel 12, as it starts, is referring back to what takes place in chapter 11 under
    the time of the king of the north attacking nations as a whirlwind with many
    ships.
     
  8. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    Ive heard that gap of 45 day explained that the Lord returns 1290 days after AoD and the 45 days are when He judges the nations and separates the sheep from the goats. Could be of the survivors there is something of trial to see who enters the kingdom.
     
  9. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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    The abomination of desolation cuts off the daily sacrifices, yes or no?

    Yes is the correct answer.

    The locusts cut off the daily sacrifices. Locusts are not 'demons', they are the 'people of the prince to come.'
    Joel 1

    4What the cutting locust left,
    the swarming locust has eaten.
    What the swarming locust left,
    the hopping locust has eaten,
    and what the hopping locust left,
    the destroying locust has eaten.

    5Awake, you drunkards, and weep,
    and wail, all you drinkers of wine,
    because of the sweet wine,
    for it is cut off from your mouth.

    6For a nation has come up against my land,
    powerful and beyond number;
    its teeth are lions’ teeth,
    and it has the fangs of a lioness.
    7It has laid waste my vine
    and splintered my fig tree;
    it has stripped off their bark and thrown it down;
    their branches are made white.

    8Lament like a virgin wearing sackcloth
    for the bridegroom of her youth.
    9The grain offering and the drink offering are cut off
    from the house of the Lord.
    The priests mourn,
    the ministers of the Lord.

    10The fields are destroyed,
    the ground mourns,
    because the grain is destroyed,
    the wine dries up,
    the oil languishes.​

    These "locusts" are cutting off the daily sacrifices. Same as the 5th Trumpet
    Revelation 9
    And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit. 2 He opened the shaft of the bottomless pit, and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft.

    3 Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 They were allowed to torment them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone. 6 And in those days people will seek death and will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them.

    7 In appearance the locusts were like horses prepared for battle: on their heads were what looked like crowns of gold; their faces were like human faces, 8 their hair like women's hair, and their teeth like lions' teeth; 9 they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the noise of their wings was like the noise of many chariots with horses rushing into battle. 10 They have tails and stings like scorpions, and their power to hurt people for five months is in their tails. 11 They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon.​

    The 6th Seal is the start of the great tribulation. Add 1335 days to get to the beginning of 70 weeks to 'finish the transgression' (Daniel 9:24) which will take you to the end of Hanukah.

    The sign of the son of man can be a reference to Revelation 12, yes or no?

    1st comes the 1335 days, then the 70 weeks. At the end of the 1335 days is the start of the 266 days pregnancy term (roughly 9 months) (one of the Rev 12 signs) + 7 months of clean-up of Gog (Ezekiel 39:12). Put another way, the 9 months + the 7 months = the 70 weeks/ 16 months.

    The 1335 days are the 'beast that was'. The beast at the end of the 9 months (the beast from the sea & earth of Revelation 13) is the beast that is 'coming up from the abyss' and is the 'beast that yet is').
     
  10. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    No. The stoppage of the daily sacrifice comes first. Then the abomination of desolation, a little later.

    The daily sacrifice is stopped for the transgression of desolation. The 2thessalonians2:4 act. Then the revealed man of sin will be killed and brought back to life as the beast.

    Then the false prophet has the image made of the beast and placed in temple. The abomination of desolation.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    No. The sign of the Son of Man in heaven - is the sixth seal event which the world will see Jesus before the throne of God.
     
  12. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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    Dan 12
    11 And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is he who waits and arrives at the 1,335 days. 13 But go your way till the end. And you shall rest and shall stand in your allotted place at the end of the days.”​

    The offerings are taken away by the abomination.

    I am fine with what you call the 'transgression' occurring 1st, then the image 45 days later. That can fit.

    Offerings / sacrifices are cut off when the abomination occurs. Simply no other way around clear scripture.
     
  13. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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    The 6th Seal is the beginning, not the end. The 7th Trumpet can't occur until after the 2 witnesses' 1260 days which is the 2nd woe! Which comes after the 1st woe which is the 5th Trumpet.

    Very simple & straightforward scripture.
     
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The daily sacrifce is stopped when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood. The transgression of desolation, of Daniel 8:12-13.

    We are not given enough information between that day (or even on what day it takes place) and the day that the image of the beast is placed in the temple.

    Please take a look at my chart in...
    My latest chart (number 3)


    The 45 days is between the sign of the Son of Man in heaven (the sixth seal event), and the coming of the Son of Man in the clouds of heaven with great power and glory.

    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven (on the 1290th day): and then (45 days later) shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory (on the 1335th day).

    Please take a look at my chart in...
    My latest chart (number 3)
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  15. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The 7th trumpet sounds after the two witnesses 1260 days (which coincides with the first half of the 7 years).

    Please take a look at my thread, Futurist Only - Timing of the two witnesses, by working backwards opening post. I have the third woe highlighted as coming after the 7th trumpet sounds, and after the 1260 days of the two witnesses.

    Their deaths and following earthquake are not the second woe. The second woe is referred to "as passed" because it was already identified as the 6th trumpet back in Revelation 9:14-21. (as the 200,000,000 army that will destroy a third of mankind)
    ____________________________________________________

    The sixth seal is the Sign of the Son of Man in heaven.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  16. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Yes.
    Daniel 9:27 ….with half of that 'week' spent, [the 70th 'week' of seven years] he will put a stop to the sacrifices and offerings and then will come the AoD…….
    This is correct, exactly 1260 days from the AoD until the Return.
    Confirmed by Revelation 12:6, where the faithful Christians of kept safe for that exact time.
    No, the extra 30 days to 1290 after the AoD, Daniel 12:11, is a time of gathering, cleaning up and settling in. Then the 1335 days - 75 days after the Return is a time of rejoicing, v12.

    Douggg, while you continue to insist that the Sixth Seal happens at the Return, you will not understand what the Lord has planned for these final few years of this age.
    Realize that to think that, you must shuffle the given sequence of Revelation. We are very plainly told not to do that.
    Also the prophesies that do tell us about the Return: Zechariah 14:3, Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 19:11, do not relate to Revelation 6:12-17.
     
  17. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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    I have seen your chart and I have too many problems with it to really address in a single post.

    1st, Matthew 24 says
    29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​

    yes, there is a gathering after the 6th Seal has started (at the 7th Seal) & there is a gathering at the end of the 2nd woe, the 'come up here' to the 2 witnesses (which is symbolic & literal imo). 2 gatherings. Each one has a sign attached to it and I have shown how these 2 signs relate to each other.

    1335 days, then the 266 day pregnancy period, the 2nd 'sign of the son of man' of Rev 12, ending at the end of the 2 witnesses 1260 days when the 2 witnesses are gathered.
     
  18. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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    As to Daniel 8's 2300 days, it is my expectation that those 2300 days begin a few short days from now on Aug 22, 2019 which is the end of 70 weeks from the end of 70 years of Jerusalem desolations. (Daniel 9:2) Aug 22, 2019 will anoint a holy place that will be cleansed 2300 days from then, ending a week before Hanukah 2025.

    It is my hypothesis that the goat's large horn is Prince Philip of Great Britain. The translation of Daniel 8:21 could mean that the horn is 'from' Greece, which Prince Philip was born in Greece. The UK would be this kingdom that is split into 4 kingdoms (due to Brexit). Wales being the 'dragon' kingdom/ little horn.
     
  19. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    When you are working with a flawed translation, the ESV, then you are subject to getting flawed results.

    What exactly are you claiming happens on the 1335th day from the setup of the AoD ? Where are you reading "rejoicing" in Daniel 12:12, btw?

    The sixth seal event happens near the end of the 7 years. It what triggers the kings of the world to assemble their armies at Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus.
     
  20. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:31 will be after Jesus has returned.

    The Armageddon feast is in Ezekiel 39:17-20. Followed by Jesus Himself, have returned to earth, speaking in the text from 39:21-29. The gathering of the elect is Ezekiel 39:28.

    28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

    The 1335 days has no connection to the first five verses in Revelation 12. Those verses are historic, and identify the woman as Israel in the rest of Revelation 12.
     
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