I love your question Sophia, as I had the same question for a long time, after the Sabbath I will go over it...
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The Three-Legged Stool of Apostasy
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I love your question Sophia, as I had the same question for a long time, after the Sabbath I will go over it...
freeindeed2
In Christ We Are FREE!
Is this not something you would discuss in your Sabbath School class on the Sabbath?
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Yes, but I wouldnt have 20 'brethren' jump me in Sabbath School to get in a few licks of their view in debate.....
Have a wonderful Sabbath....
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Tall you have your agenda, I just follow Gods truth, and what Christ asked us to follow, and let the Holy Spirit guide into all truth...
If the SDA church ever turns from that, then I must follow the path God lays out...
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freeindeed2
In Christ We Are FREE!
It must be a closed Sabbath School.Yes, but I wouldnt have 20 'brethren' jump me in Sabbath School to get in a few licks of their view in debate.....
Have a wonderful Sabbath....
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My agenda was to make sense of the doctrine. But you have shown no interest in addressing factually the questions people have on these doctrines.
You just say we might be wrong and therefore lost. How is that helping me? Your view seems to be that details are not important because God MUST have inspired the SDA church. I can say "my church is right and yours is wrong" 100 times in a row. But it doesn't make it so.
So let me ask this. Is there ANY way to test the SDA church's doctrine if you feel that we cannot test it biblically? Because that seems to be the upshot.
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So your solution is to just go with WHATEVER the church teaches, regardless of what we find in the Bible because we might be making a mistake? No, I will not do that. If God punishes me for what I understand from His word then that is His right. But I am not being judged by you but by Him. So your statements that we are making a mistake, in total isolation from even a biblical argument that my view is wrong, is just that--a statement.
This certainly is not helping this former. And I seriously doubt it is going to help your real life friends who are disenchanted with denominational theology. If you really want to help then say WHY your view is right from the Scriptures.
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Yes, but you cannot allow yourself to get so wrapped up in the minutia like that you dont see what is in front of you, or worse you trust your human wisdom and shunt aside the quiet whispers of the Holy Spirit...
The Investigative Judgement is not detailed out in the scripture, so you cannot prove it beyond a reasonable doubt as you are trying to do. But neither can you prove God exists beyond a reasonable doubt, the Holy Spirit is what leads you to have believe and have faith, and without it all the Bible is just dry text and hollow words...
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sentipente
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No, if the church is wrong we must point it out and bring correction like the elevation of Ellen White almost above all else, that is not correct. But you have to start out with a love for what is from Christ, Christ who is the head of the body, the church.
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sentipente
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sentipente
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Nothing from nothing comes and life does not proceed from non-life. Our presence indicates a living source.
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So you admit that the Adventist IJ is not spelled out in the Scripture--yet you want me to believe it. Why?
And how is the illustration of God's existence the same? The Bible VERY CLEARLY says that God exists--and I believe it, and trust in God. Now if the Bible very clearly spelled out the Adventist IJ I would also believe that. But you have admitted it doesn't.
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Prophecy Countdown
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Capitals used for emphasis only.
Quote.
‘The Three-Legged Stool of Apostasy’ Unquote.
Quote.
‘A similiarity that I've noticed with many of my 'freethinkers' and others in the online forums on Adventism and the SDA church has been that they are following one of what I call the 'Three-Legged Stool' of pushing the evangelical view, rejecting the Spirit of Prophecy, attacking the Adventist beliefs/church/administration.’ Unquote.
I had read many books one in particular from memory I think was called ‘Return to the Stars’ or something similar.
I wanted to know why it was that children died if there was a all powerful God?
I found myself asking God, whatever truth is, good or bad, whether we live and die just like all creatures with nothing but death forever before us along with our loved ones, so be it.
I found myself searching.
A friend introduced me to the DSA church.
Later I started to understand that the authority of the Bible, was paramount above all other man made writings and as I grew in understanding I noticed the noticeable faults within the church reveal themselves increasingly through Bible study.
I saw that there was an overwhelming power within the scriptures and quickly learned that if a man does not believe in the Bible, then he is a lost soul and prone to look to philosophy in his arguments as answers to obvious biblical questions on truth.
Col 2: 8. Beware lest any man spoil you THROUGH PHILOSOPHY and VAIN DECEIT, after the TRADITIONS OF MEN, AFTER THE RUDIMENTS OF THE WORLD, AND NOT OF THE CHRIST.
It is right that we journey as ‘Bible Christians’ firstly seeking truth rather than accepting errors that still persist in our old church today.
I have never heard of the term ‘freethinkers,’ if they were they would still be in the pews.
The name ‘spirit of prophecy’ from the book Revelation, belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ and Him alone it is His TESTIMONY through the SCRIPTURES.
Anyone claiming the term ‘spirit of prophecy’ for their own personal writings is usurping and plagiarising that title, which is NOT theirs to declare.
Any single church asserting to be ‘the remnant’ or the’ new Israel’ means nothing accept to display an arrogant exclusive opinion of themselves as the chosen!
Rev 19: 10. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY.
The people of Zion had the first outpouring described in Joel 2: 23 given moderately to a 120 in the upper room.
UNTIL I see the second outpouring of the Holy Spirit promised through the Prophet Joel 2: 28. Given ‘TO ALL FLESH ABUNDANTLY,’ I do not accept one individual claiming the receiving of visions or such like or claiming to be a ‘lesser light’ where interpretational errors were made.
Joel 2: 28. And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon ALL FLESH; and your SONS and your DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHECY, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see VISIONS:
Joel 2: 29. And also upon the servants and upon the HANDMAIDS in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Joel 2: 30. And I WILL SHOW WONDERS in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
The Time of this event is clearly shown within the next verse.
Joel 2: 31. The SUN shall be turned into DARKNESS, and the MOON into BLOOD, BEFORE THE GREAT AND THE TERRIBLE DAY OF THE LORD COME.
E G White 1827 – 1915 was borne and lived far too early to fit the time period biblically to be taken seriously as a prophet in my humble opinion.
Also being in error regarding the closed door theory places her firmly by biblical standards, outside God’s requirements for a true Prophet.
Deuteronomy 18: 22.
when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
Since when has questioning any church’s cherished unbiblical inaccuracies in its interpretations symbolize an ‘attack?’
It symbolizes a concern for those that are being mislead from the biblical truth by the church.
Those that put their trust in an individual, instead of the Bible, see questioning as ‘an attack’ or threat to that cherished person indicating an insecure foundation upon which they stand.
I put my faith ONLY in the WORD OF JESUS, through what sayeth the Bible and not through any other person or organisation that says differently.
Quote.
”The problem with the evangelical view is obvious with its belief in 'self' being the main ingredient in salvation, declaring themselves 'saved' or 'born again'” Unquote.
The ‘main ingredient’ to salvation is our Faith in Jesus Christ, that I hold paramount, and firmly through HIS promise of redemption for the repentant believer.
This is the gift of faith through the prompting of the Holy Spirit.
So we speak of the gospel for all men in or out of whatever man made church organisation he/she belongs to.
Christians rightly claim salvation through His word alone.
It is the gift of eternal life for all, through the promptings of the Holy Spirit.
By whose authority is that you step into the work of the Holy Spirit or as judge replacing the work of God?
For any church to suggest anyone as being needed as a ‘lesser light’ to the understanding of His testimony is assuming a role that cannot be substantiated and stretches credulity to absurdity according to biblical standards!
The Latter-day Saints and Jehovah’s Witnesses, claim the same type of prophet leadership along with the Seventh Day Adventist church with their prophetess.
Quote.
“while effectively shunting aside God as judge or Christ as saviour, and saying they 'follow the spirit' even though many things they are advocating as from 'the spirit' is not in harmony with God or His word.” Unquote.
Well done, you have just placed yourself within your own accusatory statements by your own actions and position within your church.
How can the church claim to follow God’s word when they change Dan 8: 14 from 2300 ereb boqer into ‘2300 years?’
The following is claimed by the SDA church.
SDA CHURCH.
Quote
“The writings of Ellen White ARE NOT A SUBSTITUTED FOR.
They cannot be PLACED ON THE SAME LEVEL. The Holy Scriptures STAND ALONE, THE UNIQUE STANDARD by which her and all other writings MUST BE JUDGED and TO WHICH THEY MUST BE SUBJECT” (Seventh-day Adventists Believe . . . , Ministerial Association, General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, Washington D.C., 1988, p. 227). Unquote.
Sounds good, yeah? Until I read these following claims further down the article.
Quote.
“The following is a more detailed account of the life and work of this remarkable woman who, meeting all the tests of a true prophet as set forth in the Holy Scriptures, helped found the Seventh-day Adventist church.” Unquote.
Quote.
But God, through revelation, opened up to Ellen Harmon the outcome of some of these fanatical moves, and she was charged with the responsibility of reproving wrong and pointing out error. This work she found difficult to perform.” Unquote.
Now after reading the above statement, let’s have a close look at what the church actually does and see if it is in harmony with scripture.
Quote.
‘The Three-Legged Stool of Apostasy’ Unquote.
Quote.
‘A similiarity that I've noticed with many of my 'freethinkers' and others in the online forums on Adventism and the SDA church has been that they are following one of what I call the 'Three-Legged Stool' of pushing the evangelical view, rejecting the Spirit of Prophecy, attacking the Adventist beliefs/church/administration.’ Unquote.
I had read many books one in particular from memory I think was called ‘Return to the Stars’ or something similar.
I wanted to know why it was that children died if there was a all powerful God?
I found myself asking God, whatever truth is, good or bad, whether we live and die just like all creatures with nothing but death forever before us along with our loved ones, so be it.
I found myself searching.
A friend introduced me to the DSA church.
Later I started to understand that the authority of the Bible, was paramount above all other man made writings and as I grew in understanding I noticed the noticeable faults within the church reveal themselves increasingly through Bible study.
I saw that there was an overwhelming power within the scriptures and quickly learned that if a man does not believe in the Bible, then he is a lost soul and prone to look to philosophy in his arguments as answers to obvious biblical questions on truth.
Col 2: 8. Beware lest any man spoil you THROUGH PHILOSOPHY and VAIN DECEIT, after the TRADITIONS OF MEN, AFTER THE RUDIMENTS OF THE WORLD, AND NOT OF THE CHRIST.
It is right that we journey as ‘Bible Christians’ firstly seeking truth rather than accepting errors that still persist in our old church today.
I have never heard of the term ‘freethinkers,’ if they were they would still be in the pews.
The name ‘spirit of prophecy’ from the book Revelation, belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ and Him alone it is His TESTIMONY through the SCRIPTURES.
Anyone claiming the term ‘spirit of prophecy’ for their own personal writings is usurping and plagiarising that title, which is NOT theirs to declare.
Any single church asserting to be ‘the remnant’ or the’ new Israel’ means nothing accept to display an arrogant exclusive opinion of themselves as the chosen!
Rev 19: 10. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY.
The people of Zion had the first outpouring described in Joel 2: 23 given moderately to a 120 in the upper room.
UNTIL I see the second outpouring of the Holy Spirit promised through the Prophet Joel 2: 28. Given ‘TO ALL FLESH ABUNDANTLY,’ I do not accept one individual claiming the receiving of visions or such like or claiming to be a ‘lesser light’ where interpretational errors were made.
Joel 2: 28. And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon ALL FLESH; and your SONS and your DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHECY, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see VISIONS:
Joel 2: 29. And also upon the servants and upon the HANDMAIDS in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Joel 2: 30. And I WILL SHOW WONDERS in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
The Time of this event is clearly shown within the next verse.
Joel 2: 31. The SUN shall be turned into DARKNESS, and the MOON into BLOOD, BEFORE THE GREAT AND THE TERRIBLE DAY OF THE LORD COME.
E G White 1827 – 1915 was borne and lived far too early to fit the time period biblically to be taken seriously as a prophet in my humble opinion.
Also being in error regarding the closed door theory places her firmly by biblical standards, outside God’s requirements for a true Prophet.
Deuteronomy 18: 22.
when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
Since when has questioning any church’s cherished unbiblical inaccuracies in its interpretations symbolize an ‘attack?’
It symbolizes a concern for those that are being mislead from the biblical truth by the church.
Those that put their trust in an individual, instead of the Bible, see questioning as ‘an attack’ or threat to that cherished person indicating an insecure foundation upon which they stand.
I put my faith ONLY in the WORD OF JESUS, through what sayeth the Bible and not through any other person or organisation that says differently.
Quote.
”The problem with the evangelical view is obvious with its belief in 'self' being the main ingredient in salvation, declaring themselves 'saved' or 'born again'” Unquote.
The ‘main ingredient’ to salvation is our Faith in Jesus Christ, that I hold paramount, and firmly through HIS promise of redemption for the repentant believer.
This is the gift of faith through the prompting of the Holy Spirit.
So we speak of the gospel for all men in or out of whatever man made church organisation he/she belongs to.
Christians rightly claim salvation through His word alone.
It is the gift of eternal life for all, through the promptings of the Holy Spirit.
By whose authority is that you step into the work of the Holy Spirit or as judge replacing the work of God?
For any church to suggest anyone as being needed as a ‘lesser light’ to the understanding of His testimony is assuming a role that cannot be substantiated and stretches credulity to absurdity according to biblical standards!
The Latter-day Saints and Jehovah’s Witnesses, claim the same type of prophet leadership along with the Seventh Day Adventist church with their prophetess.
Quote.
“while effectively shunting aside God as judge or Christ as saviour, and saying they 'follow the spirit' even though many things they are advocating as from 'the spirit' is not in harmony with God or His word.” Unquote.
Well done, you have just placed yourself within your own accusatory statements by your own actions and position within your church.
How can the church claim to follow God’s word when they change Dan 8: 14 from 2300 ereb boqer into ‘2300 years?’
The following is claimed by the SDA church.
SDA CHURCH.
Quote
“The writings of Ellen White ARE NOT A SUBSTITUTED FOR.
They cannot be PLACED ON THE SAME LEVEL. The Holy Scriptures STAND ALONE, THE UNIQUE STANDARD by which her and all other writings MUST BE JUDGED and TO WHICH THEY MUST BE SUBJECT” (Seventh-day Adventists Believe . . . , Ministerial Association, General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, Washington D.C., 1988, p. 227). Unquote.
Sounds good, yeah? Until I read these following claims further down the article.
Quote.
“The following is a more detailed account of the life and work of this remarkable woman who, meeting all the tests of a true prophet as set forth in the Holy Scriptures, helped found the Seventh-day Adventist church.” Unquote.
Quote.
But God, through revelation, opened up to Ellen Harmon the outcome of some of these fanatical moves, and she was charged with the responsibility of reproving wrong and pointing out error. This work she found difficult to perform.” Unquote.
Now after reading the above statement, let’s have a close look at what the church actually does and see if it is in harmony with scripture.
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Prophecy Countdown
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It is the church that changes Revelation 11: 3. from ‘1260 days’ into ‘year’s which is a barefaced violation of Rev 22: 18 and 19 respectively!
Those promoting and supporting of such behaviour, by the church are responsible to God for leading themselves and members to their eternal deaths.
Rev 22: 18. For I testify unto EVERY MAN that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22: 19. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Stretching the chezev that is stated to be only six and a part years long in Daniel 8: 13 – 14 to fit a preconceived idea again invalidates any church as being a ‘remnant people.’
The SDA church has Daniel 8: placed way back at the time of Alexander The Great, in 331BC when we are clearly told by the angel Gabriel, who came very close to Daniel, I think to make the point about THE TIME that some Adventists completely ignore in Daniel 8: 17:
Daniel 8: 17: “So HE CAME NEAR where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, UNDERSTAND, O SON OF MAN: FOR AT THE TIME OF THE END shall be THE VISION.”
This very important TIME period for the vision is repeated in Dan 8: 19. “And he said, Behold, I will make thee know WHAT SHALL BE IN THE LAST END of THE INDIGNATIO: FOR AT THE TIME APPOINTED THE END shall be.”
Alexander The Great in 331BC is way too early to ‘the time of the end’ and ‘last end’ stipulated by the angel Gabriel, and creates an unbiblical TIME inconsistency from ‘THE TIME OF THE END’ and ‘LAST END!’
Also please don’t rush in, be careful in using Daniel 8: 21. make sure that you have studied it properly.
The chezev in verse 13, 14 IS NOT quote ‘2300 YEARS’ long unquote. It is referred to as the vision of the ereb/evening, boqer/morning.
Daniel 8: 26. And the VISION OF THE EVENING AND THE MORNING which was told is TRUE: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
The words ‘ereb boqer’ are used in creation week in Gen 1: to Gen 2: 1 and we do not change that week into years!
Example Gen 1: And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the ereb/evening and the morning/boqer were the first day.
Ereb 6153. Boqer 1242.
I will explain Daniel 8: 21.very briefly.
Daniel 8: 21. The Adventist church teaches that the he goat to be ‘Greece’ and claims that the four that came up ‘were’ supposedly ‘four generals.’
If you look at the word ‘GRECIA’ and the ID number 3120 that is used for that word in verse 21 a mistranslation of the word ‘Yavan’ is made in the following. Note it says ‘probably from’ well ‘probably’ is not good enough compared to what Geneses, states in Gen 10: 4, 5.
3120 Yavan { yaw-vawn’}
probably from the same as 3196; TWOT - 855;
AV - Javan 7, Grecia 3, Greece 1; 11
GK - 3430 { ÷w:y:
Javan = “Ionia” or “Greece”
n pr m
1) a son of Japheth and grandson of Noah
n pr loc
2) Greece, Ionia, Ionians
2a) location of descendants of Javan.
Now lets look at the name ‘Javan’ from God’s word and see who his descendants really are.
Gen 10: 4. And THE SONS OF JAVAN; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
Gen 10: 5. BY THESE WERE THE ISLES OF THE GENTILES divided IN THEIR LANDS; every one after his tongue, after their families, IN THEIR NATIONS.
The translation made from ‘Yavan’ to meaning ‘Greece’ was on the basis of a preconceived notion that the translators thought that the he goat was Alexander The Great in 331BC.
Dan 8: 21. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
This is how it should read after understanding Gen 10: 4, 5. 3120 YAVAN’S DESCENDENTS.
Dan 8: 21. “And the rough goat is the king of THE GENTILE NATIONS: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.”
THIS IS A VERY SHORT EXPLANATION.
Knowing what time the vision is concerned with ‘the time of the end’ and ‘last end’ what king is NUMBER ONE of the Gentile nations at the moment?
The USA President. He is the horn on the he goat which is broken and yes he will attack Iran, the ‘higher horn on the ram’ before his presidency is over dividing up the Alliance.
Far fetched you say? OK try this on for size.
What country today has the LION as its symbol? Great Britain.
What is the greatest power out of the Gentile nations? The United States of America.
What symbol does the USA use? The EAGLE!
Look at what happens to the LION when the Alliance breaks up after Iran, is attacked when the President, leaves office the ‘great horn is broken!
Let me remind you of Dan 8: 21. “And the rough goat is the king of
( 3120 YAVAN’S DESCENDENTS, ) THE GENTILE NATIONS: and the GREAT HORN that is between his eyes is the first king.”
The President leaves office the Alliance ends and four powers stand up BUT NOT WITH THE GREAT POWER OF THE president of the USA. and here are the four.
Dan 8: 22. Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, FOUR KINGDOMS SHALL STAND UP out of the nation, but not in his power.
Those promoting and supporting of such behaviour, by the church are responsible to God for leading themselves and members to their eternal deaths.
Rev 22: 18. For I testify unto EVERY MAN that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22: 19. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Stretching the chezev that is stated to be only six and a part years long in Daniel 8: 13 – 14 to fit a preconceived idea again invalidates any church as being a ‘remnant people.’
The SDA church has Daniel 8: placed way back at the time of Alexander The Great, in 331BC when we are clearly told by the angel Gabriel, who came very close to Daniel, I think to make the point about THE TIME that some Adventists completely ignore in Daniel 8: 17:
Daniel 8: 17: “So HE CAME NEAR where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, UNDERSTAND, O SON OF MAN: FOR AT THE TIME OF THE END shall be THE VISION.”
This very important TIME period for the vision is repeated in Dan 8: 19. “And he said, Behold, I will make thee know WHAT SHALL BE IN THE LAST END of THE INDIGNATIO: FOR AT THE TIME APPOINTED THE END shall be.”
Alexander The Great in 331BC is way too early to ‘the time of the end’ and ‘last end’ stipulated by the angel Gabriel, and creates an unbiblical TIME inconsistency from ‘THE TIME OF THE END’ and ‘LAST END!’
Also please don’t rush in, be careful in using Daniel 8: 21. make sure that you have studied it properly.
The chezev in verse 13, 14 IS NOT quote ‘2300 YEARS’ long unquote. It is referred to as the vision of the ereb/evening, boqer/morning.
Daniel 8: 26. And the VISION OF THE EVENING AND THE MORNING which was told is TRUE: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
The words ‘ereb boqer’ are used in creation week in Gen 1: to Gen 2: 1 and we do not change that week into years!
Example Gen 1: And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the ereb/evening and the morning/boqer were the first day.
Ereb 6153. Boqer 1242.
I will explain Daniel 8: 21.very briefly.
Daniel 8: 21. The Adventist church teaches that the he goat to be ‘Greece’ and claims that the four that came up ‘were’ supposedly ‘four generals.’
If you look at the word ‘GRECIA’ and the ID number 3120 that is used for that word in verse 21 a mistranslation of the word ‘Yavan’ is made in the following. Note it says ‘probably from’ well ‘probably’ is not good enough compared to what Geneses, states in Gen 10: 4, 5.
3120 Yavan { yaw-vawn’}
probably from the same as 3196; TWOT - 855;
AV - Javan 7, Grecia 3, Greece 1; 11
GK - 3430 { ÷w:y:
Javan = “Ionia” or “Greece”
n pr m
1) a son of Japheth and grandson of Noah
n pr loc
2) Greece, Ionia, Ionians
2a) location of descendants of Javan.
Now lets look at the name ‘Javan’ from God’s word and see who his descendants really are.
Gen 10: 4. And THE SONS OF JAVAN; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
Gen 10: 5. BY THESE WERE THE ISLES OF THE GENTILES divided IN THEIR LANDS; every one after his tongue, after their families, IN THEIR NATIONS.
The translation made from ‘Yavan’ to meaning ‘Greece’ was on the basis of a preconceived notion that the translators thought that the he goat was Alexander The Great in 331BC.
Dan 8: 21. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
This is how it should read after understanding Gen 10: 4, 5. 3120 YAVAN’S DESCENDENTS.
Dan 8: 21. “And the rough goat is the king of THE GENTILE NATIONS: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.”
THIS IS A VERY SHORT EXPLANATION.
Knowing what time the vision is concerned with ‘the time of the end’ and ‘last end’ what king is NUMBER ONE of the Gentile nations at the moment?
The USA President. He is the horn on the he goat which is broken and yes he will attack Iran, the ‘higher horn on the ram’ before his presidency is over dividing up the Alliance.
Far fetched you say? OK try this on for size.
What country today has the LION as its symbol? Great Britain.
What is the greatest power out of the Gentile nations? The United States of America.
What symbol does the USA use? The EAGLE!
Look at what happens to the LION when the Alliance breaks up after Iran, is attacked when the President, leaves office the ‘great horn is broken!
Let me remind you of Dan 8: 21. “And the rough goat is the king of
( 3120 YAVAN’S DESCENDENTS, ) THE GENTILE NATIONS: and the GREAT HORN that is between his eyes is the first king.”
The President leaves office the Alliance ends and four powers stand up BUT NOT WITH THE GREAT POWER OF THE president of the USA. and here are the four.
Dan 8: 22. Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, FOUR KINGDOMS SHALL STAND UP out of the nation, but not in his power.
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Daniel 7: 3. And FOUR great beasts CAME UP from the sea, diverse one from another.
First the result of the breakup of the USA/GB alliance
Daniel 7: 4. The first was like a LION, and had EAGLES WING’S:
I beheld till THE WINGS THEREOF WERE PLUCKED, and it was lifted up from the earth, and MADE TO STAND upon the feet AS A MAN, and a MAN’S HEART was given to it.
This brings to harmony the Time of the vision from 331BC to now.
The four that come up out of the Gentile nations are four powers.
The BEAR by the way is Russia in verse 5 that symbol is Russia check it out.
Now once a translation mistake is recognised from the word ‘YAVAN’ as being ‘Greece,’ the errors that pile upon more errors can be eliminated.
It is the BIBLE, that reveals with a bit of a shock as to what is actually going to happen in a very short time.
Why didn’t anybody question the time aspect of Dan 8 and 331BC as being inconsistent with Gabriel’s clearly stipulated time period in verses 17 and 18?
Why didn’t anyone check the name Yavan in Gen 10: 3?
All this error has consequences, for people by rending them to becoming so out of touch with the scriptures it takes a Herculean effort by Bible Christians, to bring them to a true biblical understanding.
I have left a lot of detail out but if anyone is interested in Daniel from any aspect of Daniel just send me a message but enough for now I can only do this for so many days.
Quote. “They drift off on a path that seems to be following a spirit, but one that they do not test and try to see if it is in harmony with God or what Christ gave as testimony or taught us to follow.” Unquote.
The Holy Spirit guides ALL who accept the free gift of faith in or out of the SDA church, if they diligently search the scriptures with prayer and their God, given intelligence.
In faith we study and will not be told that we are ‘out of harmony with God’s word when we rely solely on His word.
1 Tim 2: 15. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that NEEDETH NOT TO BE ASHAMED, RIGHTLY dividing the word of truth.
Paul said of himself.
1 Cor 13: 2. And though I have prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and HAVE NOT CHARITY, I am nothing.
Does the SDA church claim that the ‘little horn is a pope,’ when the Bible, clearly indicates differently?
Can a pope do the following?
Dan 7: 9. And out of one of them came forth A LITTLE HORN, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
Dan 7: 10. And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; AND IT CAST DOWN some OF THE HOST AND OF THE STARS TO THE GROUND, and STAMPED UPON THEM.
The parallels and patterns of Satan and the little horn.
Rev 12: 3. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a GREAT RED DRAGON, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12: 13. And HIS TAIL DREW the third part of the STARS OF HEAVEN, and did CAST THEN TO THE EARTH: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Can you show me why the little horn/Satan is going to the pleasant land from Scripture?
The Bible can with more backup finding the little horn’s motive and mode of operandi.
Isaiah 14: 12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I WILL SIT also upon the MOUNT OF THE CONGREGATION, IN THE SIDES OF THE NORTH:
Psalm 48: 2. Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is MOUNT ZION, on THE SIDES OF THE NORTH, the city of the great King.
Another real problem for the church is this.
How can the SDA church claim the harlot of Revelation 17: has something to do with the church of Rome, when those that understand their Bibles, read Ezekiel 16: 1 – 63 which shows her to be Israel, Jerusalem?
Also another church problem is the church suggests a connection with Daniel 9: 25, and Cyrus signing the decree, Ezra 5:13. Well let’s have a look at the what both decrees actually say firstly.
Ezra 5: 13. But in the first year of Cyrus the king of Babylon the same king Cyrus made A DECREE TO BUILD THIS HOUSE OF GOD.
Now for the terms of the decree spoken of by Daniel 9: 25.
Daniel 9: 25. “Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment TO RESTORE AND TO BUILD JERUSALEM unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the WALL, even in troublous times.”
The Cyrus decree is “A DECREE TO BUILD THIS HOUSE OF GOD.”
The commandment is “TO RESTORE AND TO BUILD JERUSALEM.”
They are both different!
Did that difference not ring alarm bells for anyone in the church, because it did for me!
Now to pinpoint the time of Daniel 9: 25 as being at the time of the end.
This is extremely important.
In Daniel 8: When Daniel, was told the length of the vision in verse 13, of ‘2300 evening morning’ he was also told in verse 17 that’ the vision concerned ‘THE TIME OF THE END’ and in verse 19 was told the ‘LAST END.’
Please note that in Daniel 9: the angel Gabriel, showed up in verse 22 and states why he has appeared to Daniel.
Dan 9: 22. And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I AM COME FORTH TO GIVE THEE SKILL AND UNDERSTANDING.
First the result of the breakup of the USA/GB alliance
Daniel 7: 4. The first was like a LION, and had EAGLES WING’S:
I beheld till THE WINGS THEREOF WERE PLUCKED, and it was lifted up from the earth, and MADE TO STAND upon the feet AS A MAN, and a MAN’S HEART was given to it.
This brings to harmony the Time of the vision from 331BC to now.
The four that come up out of the Gentile nations are four powers.
The BEAR by the way is Russia in verse 5 that symbol is Russia check it out.
Now once a translation mistake is recognised from the word ‘YAVAN’ as being ‘Greece,’ the errors that pile upon more errors can be eliminated.
It is the BIBLE, that reveals with a bit of a shock as to what is actually going to happen in a very short time.
Why didn’t anybody question the time aspect of Dan 8 and 331BC as being inconsistent with Gabriel’s clearly stipulated time period in verses 17 and 18?
Why didn’t anyone check the name Yavan in Gen 10: 3?
All this error has consequences, for people by rending them to becoming so out of touch with the scriptures it takes a Herculean effort by Bible Christians, to bring them to a true biblical understanding.
I have left a lot of detail out but if anyone is interested in Daniel from any aspect of Daniel just send me a message but enough for now I can only do this for so many days.
Quote. “They drift off on a path that seems to be following a spirit, but one that they do not test and try to see if it is in harmony with God or what Christ gave as testimony or taught us to follow.” Unquote.
The Holy Spirit guides ALL who accept the free gift of faith in or out of the SDA church, if they diligently search the scriptures with prayer and their God, given intelligence.
In faith we study and will not be told that we are ‘out of harmony with God’s word when we rely solely on His word.
1 Tim 2: 15. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that NEEDETH NOT TO BE ASHAMED, RIGHTLY dividing the word of truth.
Paul said of himself.
1 Cor 13: 2. And though I have prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and HAVE NOT CHARITY, I am nothing.
Does the SDA church claim that the ‘little horn is a pope,’ when the Bible, clearly indicates differently?
Can a pope do the following?
Dan 7: 9. And out of one of them came forth A LITTLE HORN, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
Dan 7: 10. And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; AND IT CAST DOWN some OF THE HOST AND OF THE STARS TO THE GROUND, and STAMPED UPON THEM.
The parallels and patterns of Satan and the little horn.
Rev 12: 3. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a GREAT RED DRAGON, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12: 13. And HIS TAIL DREW the third part of the STARS OF HEAVEN, and did CAST THEN TO THE EARTH: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Can you show me why the little horn/Satan is going to the pleasant land from Scripture?
The Bible can with more backup finding the little horn’s motive and mode of operandi.
Isaiah 14: 12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I WILL SIT also upon the MOUNT OF THE CONGREGATION, IN THE SIDES OF THE NORTH:
Psalm 48: 2. Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is MOUNT ZION, on THE SIDES OF THE NORTH, the city of the great King.
Another real problem for the church is this.
How can the SDA church claim the harlot of Revelation 17: has something to do with the church of Rome, when those that understand their Bibles, read Ezekiel 16: 1 – 63 which shows her to be Israel, Jerusalem?
Also another church problem is the church suggests a connection with Daniel 9: 25, and Cyrus signing the decree, Ezra 5:13. Well let’s have a look at the what both decrees actually say firstly.
Ezra 5: 13. But in the first year of Cyrus the king of Babylon the same king Cyrus made A DECREE TO BUILD THIS HOUSE OF GOD.
Now for the terms of the decree spoken of by Daniel 9: 25.
Daniel 9: 25. “Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment TO RESTORE AND TO BUILD JERUSALEM unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the WALL, even in troublous times.”
The Cyrus decree is “A DECREE TO BUILD THIS HOUSE OF GOD.”
The commandment is “TO RESTORE AND TO BUILD JERUSALEM.”
They are both different!
Did that difference not ring alarm bells for anyone in the church, because it did for me!
Now to pinpoint the time of Daniel 9: 25 as being at the time of the end.
This is extremely important.
In Daniel 8: When Daniel, was told the length of the vision in verse 13, of ‘2300 evening morning’ he was also told in verse 17 that’ the vision concerned ‘THE TIME OF THE END’ and in verse 19 was told the ‘LAST END.’
Please note that in Daniel 9: the angel Gabriel, showed up in verse 22 and states why he has appeared to Daniel.
Dan 9: 22. And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I AM COME FORTH TO GIVE THEE SKILL AND UNDERSTANDING.
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What has the angel Gabriel, got to give Daniel, skill and understanding of?
He has come to give him understanding of THE CHEZEV of Daniel 8: Yes, I know. I’m belaboring it a bit to make the point.
This is the understanding of the vision concerning a short time span of ‘2300 days’ v 14 or six and a part years in length and is ‘concerned with the time of the end’ and ‘last end.’ v 17, 18.
So Gabriel, having now come to explain the vision to Daniel recorded as Daniel 8: launches into the SEVENTY WEEKS EXPLANATION in Dan 9: verse 24 which must be connected to the vision of Daniel 8: or why would the angel Gabriel use the 70 weeks of Dan 9: to bring Daniel, understanding of the evening morning vision of Dan 8?
Now read the following from that perspective and it speaks for itself.
Daniel 9: 24. “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy HOLY CITY, to FINISH THE TRANSGRETION, and to make an END OF SIN, and to make RECONCILIATION FOR INIQUITY, and to bring in EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS, and to SEAL UP THE VISION AND PROPHECY, and to ANOINT THE MOST HOLY.”
So am I wrong in bringing the explanation of a vision DAN 8: whose length and TIME SLOT are clearly noted by the ANGEL GABRIEL with an explanation of it, Dan 9: using the seventy weeks as an enlightenment of it?
The angel Gabriel brought the two together yet men have parted the chezev to fit ill-informed preconceived ideas!
I’m just seeing what Gabriel, did and why he did it!
Also Daniel, was in Shushan, in the citadel, within the province of Elam; which is by the River Ulai.
The Ram was standing by the river Ulai Dan 8: 4.
We have the geographical location but the battle of the Greeks and Medo/Persians was 1000 miles away.
So we have the wrong TIME wrong LOCATION and wrong ID for the name Yavan as meaning ‘GREECE.’
The biblical details are there to firmly disqualify the Alexander 331BC battle as not being truth on several biblical accounts.
How can an historic decree by Cyrus that has been accomplished during the time of Artaxerxes, thousands of years ago, have anything to do with another commandment in Dan 9: which is solely used for the understanding therefore connected to a vision spanning only 2300 ‘ereb boqer’ or six and a part years which is a TIME limiting span of the vision of Dan 8: and to a ‘time of the end’ and ‘last end’ TIME SLOT of the chezev?
It won’t fit the many stipulated biblical requirements necessary for truth in understanding.
Accepting that simple fact that the 70 weeks are all to do with Daniel 8: I do not believe that it applies to the Christ, in the last week of the seventy because the timing of Dan 8; is way past His crucifixion period which certainly was not at ‘the time of the end’ or ‘last end’ concerning the vision of Daniel 8: Daniel 8: and 9 the explanation of it concerns HIS second advent.
This next explanation of Dan 9: belongs to the same time as Revelation 11: there is a connection made By Gabriel.
Daniel 9: 27. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and IN THE MIDST OF THE WEEK he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall MAKE it DESOLATE, EVEN UNTIL THE CONSUMATION, and THAT DETERMINED SHALL BE POURED UPON THE DESOLATE.
I say the above refers to the last week because the word ‘consummation’ or to bring to ‘completion’ or an ‘end’ is used.
When I look at the two witnesses after they witness for ‘1260 days’ as the Gentiles, trample on the city of Jerusalem, ‘for 42 months’ and look at the time span of the last week and I do say ‘last week’ because it is at the end of it 3 ½ days later after the two witnesses are murdered by Satan, that trumpet seven is blown in Rev 11: 8 – 10.
In verse 11, the voice of God, calls and the seventh trumpet is blown in verses 12 - 15.
Now it is that same last week even down to the last 3 ½ days of it also mentioned in both Dan 9: 27 being called ‘the midst of the week’ and in Rev 11: 7 the two witnesses are killed in the midst of the last week and they lay dead in Jerusalem for 3 ½ days. Then the resurrection time trump seven verses 12 – 15 is blown.
Which to me proves that there is a connection time wise with the seventieth week and that the prince spoken of in Daniel 9: 26 and 27 is not the Christ because Jesus, returns after THAT SAME LAST WEEK at trumpet seven to bring the two witnesses to life at the resurrection of life!
Also noting again the SDA church changes the ‘1260 Days’ of Rev 2: concerning the two witnesses into ‘1260 years’ which is in breach of Rev 22: 18, 19. Would someone like to tell me by whose authority the church does that?
The church also told me that ‘the two witnesses were the Old and New Testaments.’
One error extends to further errors.
There is that old misapplication of ‘1780AD and 1833AD’ to Matt 24: 29.
Matt 24: 29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Let me first look up the word ‘immediately’ which is used in verse 29, which means instantly, instantaneously, without delay, at once.
So when the sun is darkened and the moon does not give her light and the stars fall from heaven. Immediately God, appears and sends His angels to gather His people.
However the church has the sun being darkened and then the moon not giving her light occurring in 1780AD.
Then has a break of 53 YEARS and the stars fall from heaven and we are STILL WAITING for His second advent are we not?
That interpretation ignores the word ‘Immediately’ which means who ever concocted that idea was a surface reader.
Either the Bible, is wrong and that is not the case about these things or the Seventh Day Adventist church, is in error and I take no joy in saying that because it has caused a lot of heart ache for me and those that are Bible Christians to witness what is happening to the church.
He has come to give him understanding of THE CHEZEV of Daniel 8: Yes, I know. I’m belaboring it a bit to make the point.
This is the understanding of the vision concerning a short time span of ‘2300 days’ v 14 or six and a part years in length and is ‘concerned with the time of the end’ and ‘last end.’ v 17, 18.
So Gabriel, having now come to explain the vision to Daniel recorded as Daniel 8: launches into the SEVENTY WEEKS EXPLANATION in Dan 9: verse 24 which must be connected to the vision of Daniel 8: or why would the angel Gabriel use the 70 weeks of Dan 9: to bring Daniel, understanding of the evening morning vision of Dan 8?
Now read the following from that perspective and it speaks for itself.
Daniel 9: 24. “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy HOLY CITY, to FINISH THE TRANSGRETION, and to make an END OF SIN, and to make RECONCILIATION FOR INIQUITY, and to bring in EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS, and to SEAL UP THE VISION AND PROPHECY, and to ANOINT THE MOST HOLY.”
So am I wrong in bringing the explanation of a vision DAN 8: whose length and TIME SLOT are clearly noted by the ANGEL GABRIEL with an explanation of it, Dan 9: using the seventy weeks as an enlightenment of it?
The angel Gabriel brought the two together yet men have parted the chezev to fit ill-informed preconceived ideas!
I’m just seeing what Gabriel, did and why he did it!
Also Daniel, was in Shushan, in the citadel, within the province of Elam; which is by the River Ulai.
The Ram was standing by the river Ulai Dan 8: 4.
We have the geographical location but the battle of the Greeks and Medo/Persians was 1000 miles away.
So we have the wrong TIME wrong LOCATION and wrong ID for the name Yavan as meaning ‘GREECE.’
The biblical details are there to firmly disqualify the Alexander 331BC battle as not being truth on several biblical accounts.
How can an historic decree by Cyrus that has been accomplished during the time of Artaxerxes, thousands of years ago, have anything to do with another commandment in Dan 9: which is solely used for the understanding therefore connected to a vision spanning only 2300 ‘ereb boqer’ or six and a part years which is a TIME limiting span of the vision of Dan 8: and to a ‘time of the end’ and ‘last end’ TIME SLOT of the chezev?
It won’t fit the many stipulated biblical requirements necessary for truth in understanding.
Accepting that simple fact that the 70 weeks are all to do with Daniel 8: I do not believe that it applies to the Christ, in the last week of the seventy because the timing of Dan 8; is way past His crucifixion period which certainly was not at ‘the time of the end’ or ‘last end’ concerning the vision of Daniel 8: Daniel 8: and 9 the explanation of it concerns HIS second advent.
This next explanation of Dan 9: belongs to the same time as Revelation 11: there is a connection made By Gabriel.
Daniel 9: 27. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and IN THE MIDST OF THE WEEK he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall MAKE it DESOLATE, EVEN UNTIL THE CONSUMATION, and THAT DETERMINED SHALL BE POURED UPON THE DESOLATE.
I say the above refers to the last week because the word ‘consummation’ or to bring to ‘completion’ or an ‘end’ is used.
When I look at the two witnesses after they witness for ‘1260 days’ as the Gentiles, trample on the city of Jerusalem, ‘for 42 months’ and look at the time span of the last week and I do say ‘last week’ because it is at the end of it 3 ½ days later after the two witnesses are murdered by Satan, that trumpet seven is blown in Rev 11: 8 – 10.
In verse 11, the voice of God, calls and the seventh trumpet is blown in verses 12 - 15.
Now it is that same last week even down to the last 3 ½ days of it also mentioned in both Dan 9: 27 being called ‘the midst of the week’ and in Rev 11: 7 the two witnesses are killed in the midst of the last week and they lay dead in Jerusalem for 3 ½ days. Then the resurrection time trump seven verses 12 – 15 is blown.
Which to me proves that there is a connection time wise with the seventieth week and that the prince spoken of in Daniel 9: 26 and 27 is not the Christ because Jesus, returns after THAT SAME LAST WEEK at trumpet seven to bring the two witnesses to life at the resurrection of life!
Also noting again the SDA church changes the ‘1260 Days’ of Rev 2: concerning the two witnesses into ‘1260 years’ which is in breach of Rev 22: 18, 19. Would someone like to tell me by whose authority the church does that?
The church also told me that ‘the two witnesses were the Old and New Testaments.’
One error extends to further errors.
There is that old misapplication of ‘1780AD and 1833AD’ to Matt 24: 29.
Matt 24: 29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Let me first look up the word ‘immediately’ which is used in verse 29, which means instantly, instantaneously, without delay, at once.
So when the sun is darkened and the moon does not give her light and the stars fall from heaven. Immediately God, appears and sends His angels to gather His people.
However the church has the sun being darkened and then the moon not giving her light occurring in 1780AD.
Then has a break of 53 YEARS and the stars fall from heaven and we are STILL WAITING for His second advent are we not?
That interpretation ignores the word ‘Immediately’ which means who ever concocted that idea was a surface reader.
Either the Bible, is wrong and that is not the case about these things or the Seventh Day Adventist church, is in error and I take no joy in saying that because it has caused a lot of heart ache for me and those that are Bible Christians to witness what is happening to the church.
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Nobody or any church should claim to have more knowledge than others as it is a sign of conceit and is unappealing as we are like the Prophet Daniel to humble ourselves with a gentle soul in these matters as was the case with Daniel he was so loved in heaven because he was Humble and Gabriel told him so.
I don’t know about you brethren but this stuff is a real concern to me because we are running out of TIME.
Quote.
“The rejection of the Spirit of Prophecy” Unquote.
As I said before the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus, only.
Rev 19: 10. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I AM A FELLOWSERVANT, and OF THY BRETHREN AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS: WORSHIP GOD: FOR THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY.
I do not need another book by another person, other than the Bible Prophets of old and the testimony of Jesus and the help of friends in understanding some of these matters.
Quote.
“The rejection of the Spirit of Prophecy is best seen in what happened to a close friend who was a intellectual and who I considered a strong believer and mentor. He was very involved in the Adventist church, a fierce defender and believer of its truths, using his intellectual skills and logic to answer questioning minds and defend against any attack on the truth. But a seed of doubt was put into his mind about Ellen White and little by little he began to drift away until he rejected the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation, saying they werent really 'prophecy' and then became unsure or seemingly confused on other truths that before had been plain to him. He has drifted looking for a church or movement to join but in his mind he still sees that they do not have the fullness of truth that he has left behind.” Unquote.
This is a clear result of an intelligent man putting his trust in a church and relying on other writings, using the same name of the spirit of prophecy from their own personal prophetess instead of looking at the scriptures diligently as his first light instead of a claimed ‘lesser light.’
It seems that when he put so much of his trust in his church.
Maybe he saw the huge biblical gaps appear that large trucks could drive through and a leadership protective of E G White, in spite of the word of God, sounding counter warnings.
There is nobody as sad and as lost, as a soul that has relied on prophets outside of scripture’s definition and then realises he has been let down and is so weighted down with the baggage of his old church he looks for something else making the same mistake by going to another church instead of his Bible.
If the SDA church had the deepness of understanding That man would have gone back. But he did not, so that should tell reddog, something other than the impression he has of his church and have the strength in His word to stand up and do something about it.
Quote.
“The attack against Adventist beliefs/church or administration is more subtle as it can begin with small issues such as a questioning of tithe or not accepting a proper rebuke from church brethren on smoking or drinking.” Unquote.
I have NEVER heard of a smoking or drinking issue.
My experience so far is based on the obvious church support for unbiblical teachings by certain church members as the sole issue here.
There is and has been a proper rebuke from church brethren to those few church members in that they should reject the errors of E G white and of the church’s unbiblical teachings, such as ‘the investigative judgement’ but attending church members will not look at the Bible’s evidence showing up those misunderstandings because they are fearful of those yielding authority within the church.
Proverbs 29: 25. “The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe.”
When members do question they are treated similarly as the Disciples, by the Temple church leaders during their time.
Many went out from the padded pews of the church and sat on rocks listening to John the Baptist.
Now for the drinking debate.
Did Jesus make wine? Yes.
John 2: 9 Jesus, turned water into wine - 3631 { oy’-nos}
It is not biblically unlawful to drink wine WITHIN REASON so the non drinking rule by the SDA church is another MAN MADE RULE an imposition not required by scripture.
John 2: 9: When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
John 2: 10. And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
John 2: 11. This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.
Quote.
“Something the individual wants to get out of following or or to justify continuing in the wrong behavior or vice.” Unquote.
As I said Jesus, made wine - 3631. John 2: 9 - 11.
He, would not have made the wine for the wedding if it were a ‘vice.’
I think you are maybe prone to attributing extreme examples to all that are more deserving of a more charitable opinion from you.
Quote.
“This then slowly grows and then begins to manifests itself into outright hostility to the church with bellicose statements attacking it or unjust criticism of anything Adventist.” Unquote.
That seems in my humble opinion to be an exaggeration and biased remark.
An attitude of disrespect from some church members resulting in hostility and as a consequence, statements verging on if not utter nonsense is the result!
Most that leave the church do so because they are sick and tired of the strange teachings that they know are non biblical and that although trying to advise against such practices they can’t stop those in charge from continually upholding them.
Quote. “ It leads the individual to become a opponent and angry denouncer of Adventist believers, beliefs, and the Adventist chuch.” Unquote.
I don’t know about you brethren but this stuff is a real concern to me because we are running out of TIME.
Quote.
“The rejection of the Spirit of Prophecy” Unquote.
As I said before the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus, only.
Rev 19: 10. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I AM A FELLOWSERVANT, and OF THY BRETHREN AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS: WORSHIP GOD: FOR THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY.
I do not need another book by another person, other than the Bible Prophets of old and the testimony of Jesus and the help of friends in understanding some of these matters.
Quote.
“The rejection of the Spirit of Prophecy is best seen in what happened to a close friend who was a intellectual and who I considered a strong believer and mentor. He was very involved in the Adventist church, a fierce defender and believer of its truths, using his intellectual skills and logic to answer questioning minds and defend against any attack on the truth. But a seed of doubt was put into his mind about Ellen White and little by little he began to drift away until he rejected the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation, saying they werent really 'prophecy' and then became unsure or seemingly confused on other truths that before had been plain to him. He has drifted looking for a church or movement to join but in his mind he still sees that they do not have the fullness of truth that he has left behind.” Unquote.
This is a clear result of an intelligent man putting his trust in a church and relying on other writings, using the same name of the spirit of prophecy from their own personal prophetess instead of looking at the scriptures diligently as his first light instead of a claimed ‘lesser light.’
It seems that when he put so much of his trust in his church.
Maybe he saw the huge biblical gaps appear that large trucks could drive through and a leadership protective of E G White, in spite of the word of God, sounding counter warnings.
There is nobody as sad and as lost, as a soul that has relied on prophets outside of scripture’s definition and then realises he has been let down and is so weighted down with the baggage of his old church he looks for something else making the same mistake by going to another church instead of his Bible.
If the SDA church had the deepness of understanding That man would have gone back. But he did not, so that should tell reddog, something other than the impression he has of his church and have the strength in His word to stand up and do something about it.
Quote.
“The attack against Adventist beliefs/church or administration is more subtle as it can begin with small issues such as a questioning of tithe or not accepting a proper rebuke from church brethren on smoking or drinking.” Unquote.
I have NEVER heard of a smoking or drinking issue.
My experience so far is based on the obvious church support for unbiblical teachings by certain church members as the sole issue here.
There is and has been a proper rebuke from church brethren to those few church members in that they should reject the errors of E G white and of the church’s unbiblical teachings, such as ‘the investigative judgement’ but attending church members will not look at the Bible’s evidence showing up those misunderstandings because they are fearful of those yielding authority within the church.
Proverbs 29: 25. “The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe.”
When members do question they are treated similarly as the Disciples, by the Temple church leaders during their time.
Many went out from the padded pews of the church and sat on rocks listening to John the Baptist.
Now for the drinking debate.
Did Jesus make wine? Yes.
John 2: 9 Jesus, turned water into wine - 3631 { oy’-nos}
It is not biblically unlawful to drink wine WITHIN REASON so the non drinking rule by the SDA church is another MAN MADE RULE an imposition not required by scripture.
John 2: 9: When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew
the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,John 2: 10. And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
John 2: 11. This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.
Quote.
“Something the individual wants to get out of following or or to justify continuing in the wrong behavior or vice.” Unquote.
As I said Jesus, made wine - 3631. John 2: 9 - 11.
He, would not have made the wine for the wedding if it were a ‘vice.’
I think you are maybe prone to attributing extreme examples to all that are more deserving of a more charitable opinion from you.
Quote.
“This then slowly grows and then begins to manifests itself into outright hostility to the church with bellicose statements attacking it or unjust criticism of anything Adventist.” Unquote.
That seems in my humble opinion to be an exaggeration and biased remark.
An attitude of disrespect from some church members resulting in hostility and as a consequence, statements verging on if not utter nonsense is the result!
Most that leave the church do so because they are sick and tired of the strange teachings that they know are non biblical and that although trying to advise against such practices they can’t stop those in charge from continually upholding them.
Quote. “ It leads the individual to become a opponent and angry denouncer of Adventist believers, beliefs, and the Adventist chuch.” Unquote.
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To say that it leads to individuals becoming ‘angry’ denouncers of believers,’ is not the case by me or any here on this site from what I have seen so far.
Those statements are offensive showing an attitude against those that are NOT against Adventists beliefs that are biblical but only those that are blatantly unbiblical and therefore are open to critical biblical analysis and questioning.
The Adventist church admits their self acknowledged Laodicean type attitude which is manifest within the following words of Jesus.
Rev 3: 18. Buy your gold from me. It has been refined in a fire, and it will make you rich. Buy white clothes from me. Wear them and you can cover up your shameful nakedness. BUY MEDICINE FOR YOUR EYES, SO THAT YOU MAY BE ABLE TO SEE..
Bible Christians, within or out of the church seem to cause some remaining in charge and their underlings consternation and anger with an accusatory tone toward those they no longer control and have no answers to important biblical questions posed to them.
Some members seem to bumble along unquestioningly within a false sense of security trusting the men up top for guidance, and as they do Daniel 8: will suddenly spring upon them like a vice as they wake sharply from a slumber of a Laodicean type doze.
Church members like your good self, speak out against Bible Christian’s warnings, Many though in the church are wise to the times in which we live. For that I thank the Lord.
Quote. They just continue attacking or slowly drift off from the truth Unquote.
‘Drifting from truth?’ People will find out the TRUTH in Daniel’s writings shortly in world events and will look at you with different eyes.
Quote, into looking for people, a movement or some church that will accept their outlook against the Adventist church. Unquote.
For well over 24 years there has been what is known as ‘Countdown Ministries,’ and it is also known as ‘Prophecy Ministries’ and also IBE book Ministries, run by Charles E Wheeling from Alabama.
He is supported by church attendees and none attending Seventh Day Adventists and others of many different denominations.
For me personally going back to the SDA church would be like going to the J W’s or the Latter Day Saints, they too have their prophets. It would be like going back from light into the dark ages from a biblical perspective.
Quote. Each one can lead to a falling away from Adventism, or combine in a individuals outlook to as they fall away completely and fight against truth they held or try to pry others from the truth. Unquote.
I ‘pry,’ yes I do, from the Bible for myself and through the grace of God, I am growing in understanding to pass it on.
How much has the SDA church progressed with increased knowledge in 93 years since E G White’s death?
Not even one step and the church is stagnating because the controllers won’t admit biblical error and do not like the members questioning the church that those same members pay for and supposedly own. Yet ownership documents of the churches are held by the GC.
The Church Of Rome, to which some Adventists attack vehemently, works on the ‘trickle down theology method’ as to what is acceptable or not acceptable theologically to the church members.
Understanding this the SDA church has the same hierarchical trickle down system.
Quote.
The Adventist church has been given the most complete and fullness of Gods truth in harmony with His word and understanding of prophecy beyond any other church, movement or view, and anyone who turns from Adventism is choosing a lesser or false truth. Unquote.
If you wish to think that then that is your self deluding choice just as it is mine to disagree using the Bible, texts against those clear biblical misunderstandings of the church.
There is a movement that works all around the world and it is supported by Seventh Day Adventist members from all SDA churches.
Knowing that brings a warm glow in me for the sake of truth to which I am pleased for those supporting the cause.
Quote.
The path to unbelief is wide and well traveled, littered with good intentions and seemingly logical arguments and rational views on why to continue on it, but it still leads to eternal death rather than eternal life. Unquote.
Leaving the SDA church does not lead to eternal death or a wide path.
Rejection of the word of God, or by changing it leads to eternal damnation.
The following two verses warn us about the wide path to eternal death and the church had better wake up to that fact soon and what harm it is causing to its members.
Rev 22: 18. 19.
Quote.
Be careful of any of the Three-Legged Stool of Apostasy, pray that the Lord will send His Holy Spirit to guide you into all truth and unveil the path for you to follow. Unquote.
Yes the Comforter, did guide me.
Matt 10: 14. And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye DEPART OUT OF THAT HOUSE or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Men and women alone with their computers can find biblical information quickly searching for parallels and patterns that pull the Bible, together in the end there is so much whirling around the mind we grow each day more and more stronger in His word for the final conflict ahead.
To those that are a little interested in a closer look at these last day prophecy events or are interested in a full explanation or the quick look fast read of Daniel just let me know.
My kindest regards and my prayers and seasons greetings.
PC.
Those statements are offensive showing an attitude against those that are NOT against Adventists beliefs that are biblical but only those that are blatantly unbiblical and therefore are open to critical biblical analysis and questioning.
The Adventist church admits their self acknowledged Laodicean type attitude which is manifest within the following words of Jesus.
Rev 3: 18. Buy your gold from me. It has been refined in a fire, and it will make you rich. Buy white clothes from me. Wear them and you can cover up your shameful nakedness. BUY MEDICINE FOR YOUR EYES, SO THAT YOU MAY BE ABLE TO SEE..
Bible Christians, within or out of the church seem to cause some remaining in charge and their underlings consternation and anger with an accusatory tone toward those they no longer control and have no answers to important biblical questions posed to them.
Some members seem to bumble along unquestioningly within a false sense of security trusting the men up top for guidance, and as they do Daniel 8: will suddenly spring upon them like a vice as they wake sharply from a slumber of a Laodicean type doze.
Church members like your good self, speak out against Bible Christian’s warnings, Many though in the church are wise to the times in which we live. For that I thank the Lord.
Quote. They just continue attacking or slowly drift off from the truth Unquote.
‘Drifting from truth?’ People will find out the TRUTH in Daniel’s writings shortly in world events and will look at you with different eyes.
Quote, into looking for people, a movement or some church that will accept their outlook against the Adventist church. Unquote.
For well over 24 years there has been what is known as ‘Countdown Ministries,’ and it is also known as ‘Prophecy Ministries’ and also IBE book Ministries, run by Charles E Wheeling from Alabama.
He is supported by church attendees and none attending Seventh Day Adventists and others of many different denominations.
For me personally going back to the SDA church would be like going to the J W’s or the Latter Day Saints, they too have their prophets. It would be like going back from light into the dark ages from a biblical perspective.
Quote. Each one can lead to a falling away from Adventism, or combine in a individuals outlook to as they fall away completely and fight against truth they held or try to pry others from the truth. Unquote.
I ‘pry,’ yes I do, from the Bible for myself and through the grace of God, I am growing in understanding to pass it on.
How much has the SDA church progressed with increased knowledge in 93 years since E G White’s death?
Not even one step and the church is stagnating because the controllers won’t admit biblical error and do not like the members questioning the church that those same members pay for and supposedly own. Yet ownership documents of the churches are held by the GC.
The Church Of Rome, to which some Adventists attack vehemently, works on the ‘trickle down theology method’ as to what is acceptable or not acceptable theologically to the church members.
Understanding this the SDA church has the same hierarchical trickle down system.
Quote.
The Adventist church has been given the most complete and fullness of Gods truth in harmony with His word and understanding of prophecy beyond any other church, movement or view, and anyone who turns from Adventism is choosing a lesser or false truth. Unquote.
If you wish to think that then that is your self deluding choice just as it is mine to disagree using the Bible, texts against those clear biblical misunderstandings of the church.
There is a movement that works all around the world and it is supported by Seventh Day Adventist members from all SDA churches.
Knowing that brings a warm glow in me for the sake of truth to which I am pleased for those supporting the cause.
Quote.
The path to unbelief is wide and well traveled, littered with good intentions and seemingly logical arguments and rational views on why to continue on it, but it still leads to eternal death rather than eternal life. Unquote.
Leaving the SDA church does not lead to eternal death or a wide path.
Rejection of the word of God, or by changing it leads to eternal damnation.
The following two verses warn us about the wide path to eternal death and the church had better wake up to that fact soon and what harm it is causing to its members.
Rev 22: 18. 19.
Quote.
Be careful of any of the Three-Legged Stool of Apostasy, pray that the Lord will send His Holy Spirit to guide you into all truth and unveil the path for you to follow. Unquote.
Yes the Comforter, did guide me.
Matt 10: 14. And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye DEPART OUT OF THAT HOUSE or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Men and women alone with their computers can find biblical information quickly searching for parallels and patterns that pull the Bible, together in the end there is so much whirling around the mind we grow each day more and more stronger in His word for the final conflict ahead.
To those that are a little interested in a closer look at these last day prophecy events or are interested in a full explanation or the quick look fast read of Daniel just let me know.
My kindest regards and my prayers and seasons greetings.
PC.
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