The third chapter of John

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janxharris

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I am suggesting that God's word will not return void. That is, after all, what the Bible says.

Okay, but are you saying that if a preacher preaches to an individual (alone) then they will believe? And are you also suggesting that if a crowd does not contain one person who will believe then preaching won't occur?
 
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nobdysfool

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Okay, but are you saying that if a preacher preaches to an individual (alone) then they will believe? And are you also suggesting that if a crowd does not contain one person who will believe then preaching won't occur?

We are charged to share the Gospel indiscriminately. The results of that are not up to us, nor in our hands. We are not told who God has chosen to save. That's His venue. The dilemna you think you see is because of faulty Arminian theology.
 
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janxharris

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We are charged to share the Gospel indiscriminately. The results of that are not up to us, nor in our hands. We are not told who God has chosen to save. That's His venue. The dilemna you think you see is because of faulty Arminian theology.

My post consisted of two questions directed to ANDawn and her view.
 
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nobdysfool

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My post consisted of two questions directed to ANDawn and her view.

You posted it on an open forum. What i said speaks to the points being made. Are you having trouble finding a way to answer?
 
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A New Dawn

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Okay, but are you saying that if a preacher preaches to an individual (alone) then they will believe? And are you also suggesting that if a crowd does not contain one person who will believe then preaching won't occur?

I am suggesting that God's word will not return void. It is you who is interpreting that as someone must come to faith. It is not always a given that faith comes with regeneration, they are two separate events. One might happen at one time and the other another time. Who's to say how God works? I know I am taking Him at his word and letting Him be the author of faith and salvation.
 
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janxharris

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I am suggesting that God's word will not return void. It is you who is interpreting that as someone must come to faith. It is not always a given that faith comes with regeneration, they are two separate events. One might happen at one time and the other another time. Who's to say how God works? I know I am taking Him at his word and letting Him be the author of faith and salvation.

I asked a simple question.
 
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janxharris

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Not all simple questions have simple answers. Life, God and new life doesn't work that way.

Are you saying that if a preacher preaches to an individual (alone) then they will, EVENTUALLY, believe? And are you also suggesting that if a crowd does not contain one person who will believe then preaching won't occur?
 
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A New Dawn

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Are you saying that if a preacher preaches to an individual (alone) then they will, EVENTUALLY, believe? And are you also suggesting that if a crowd does not contain one person who will believe then preaching won't occur?

Do you understand the concept of "God's word will not return void?"

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

It goes out and it does what God intends to do with it. It will not return void.
 
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janxharris

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Do you understand the concept of "God's word will not return void?"

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

It goes out and it does what God intends to do with it. It will not return void.

So your answers are 'yes' and 'yes'?
 
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A New Dawn

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So your answers are 'yes' and 'yes'?

My answer was, is, and will be, it does whatever God desires for it to do. If the only way you can think of that happening would be for someone to become saved, then perhaps you need to reexamine all the possible outcomes. Or maybe come to understand what other possible outcomes are.
 
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janxharris

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My answer was, is, and will be, it does whatever God desires for it to do. If the only way you can think of that happening would be for someone to become saved, then perhaps you need to reexamine all the possible outcomes. Or maybe come to understand what other possible outcomes are.

I don't fully understand you. So is your answer is 'No' & 'No'?
 
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We are charged to share the Gospel indiscriminately. The results of that are not up to us, nor in our hands. We are not told who God has chosen to save. That's His venue.

Telling unbelievers, indeed telling those that will never believe, that they should have faith in Christ's blood proves that that such blood was shed for them.
 
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nobdysfool

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Telling unbelievers, indeed telling those that will never believe, that they should have faith in Christ's blood proves that that such blood was shed for them.

No, it doesn't. Those who will never believe will not receive the words of the Gospel. They will reject them. That's not the fault of the preacher or the Gospel itself.

All men are rightly condemned for sin. It is their nature. God is not obligated to save even one man. That's Justice. That He saves anyone is Mercy, and is given as He wills, not as we will. Your theology does not fit within that paradigm.

Demanding that Calvinists provide disclaimers is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. They are not needed, and we will not provide them, as Scripture does not demand them, or command them. All this is fretting over inconvenient (for you) truths.
 
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janxharris

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No, it doesn't. Those who will never believe will not receive the words of the Gospel. They will reject them.

That's not the fault of the preacher or the Gospel itself.

It is irrelevant that they reject what they are told. That they are told is what counts. When we consider what Paul understood about the relevance of Christ's blood for each human being then we are left in no doubt.

All men are rightly condemned for sin. It is their nature. God is not obligated to save even one man. That's

Justice. That He saves anyone is Mercy, and is given as He wills, not as we will. Your theology does not fit

within that paradigm.

And God was pleased to save those that believe.

Demanding that Calvinists provide disclaimers is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. They are not

needed, and we will not provide them, as Scripture does not demand them, or command them. All this is

fretting over inconvenient (for you) truths.

Then Christ died for all men - his blood was shed for those that rejected him otherwise Paul would have guarded against preaching such a scripture (as Romans 3:25a) to the unsaved.

And we have seen such a position here on this forum, but of course, the context of Romans 3 is all men.
 
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janxharris

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Romans 3:10-26
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

(With respect to the law, all men are found wanting)

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
 
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nobdysfool

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Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


This section is talking ONLY about Believers. It has reference to no others. Read it again.

The very passage you point to as proof of your position undermines it completely. Paul is talking about Believers, and ONLY Believers here.
 
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