The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

[Carl Emerson]

Then how do you understand Galatians 3? Why was he rebuking them when he said...

10 For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse. ???

 

[ARBITER01]

The crux of the issue is judgment. Those who preach keeping Sabbath continually judges this who do not. Those who do not keep Sabbath, just want to be left alone.

Exactly.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Then how do you understand Galatians 3? Why was he rebuking them when he said...

10 For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse. ???

First you need to define what are the works of the law, which is not only worshipping God, or not using God’s holy name in vain- do you really think this is the “works of the law‘ that is bewitching Christians? Basically saying God bewitched His people.

What was Paul teaching in the previous chapter that chapter 3 is a continuation of. What is the main law Paul keeps quoting throughout Galatians that the Jews were requiring to save themselves and before Gentiles could hear the word of God.

 

[Carl Emerson]

First you need to define what are the works of the law, which is not only worshipping God, or not using God’s holy name in vain- do you really think this is the “works of the law‘ that is bewitching Christians? Basically saying God bewitched His people.

Mmmm...

Can some other reader help me to understand this response (if it is possible)

The wisdom from above is reasonable according to James.

I can't detect a lot of reason in this response - can someone decode ?

 

[Jerry N.]

I’ve been watching this thread with minor participation. I keep the Sabbath and believe it is an eternal decree; however, I’ve been waiting for Catholics and Protestants to defend and justify keeping Sunday. The Catholic teaching is that keeping Saturday (Sabbath) is a sign of the Old Covenant, and keeping Sunday (The Lord’s Day) is a sign of the New Covenant in remembrance of the Resurrection. I disagree; however, I would like to learn how the Catholic teaching is justified by Scripture. If my brothers and sisters in Christ keep the Lord’s Day to fulfill the fourth commandment, it is a good thing, but how is it justified other than tradition and the decrees of the Roman Church in 321 AD ?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Mmmm...

Can some other reader help me to understand this response (if it is possible)

The wisdom from above is reasonable according to James.

I can't detect a lot of reason in this response - can someone decode ?

This wasn't reasoning, it was questions. This was my attempt in hopes to get one to think about the implications one is trying to make about God's commandments, written by the Holy Spirit. Hoping you read the chapter before which sets up the context for chapter 3 and try and understand what Paul is really teaching (the theme of Galatians) instead of taking a couple verses and isolating them from the rest of the chapter and Bible to make a doctrine that is actually against what Paul is teaching and Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

For example if the Law of God are the "works of the law" and bewitching Christians which would include the commandment to only worship God- is Paul saying only worshipping the God of the Bible bewitching people? We need to think through these things and spend more time in prayer and looking at all the context so if Paul says in one chapter breaking the commandments from the Ten is dishonoring God Rom2:21-23 and sin Rom7:7 and makes one an enemy to God Rom8:7-8, would he really start teaching keeping them now is bewitching someone, the exact opposite of what Jesus taught and lived who is our example and Whose faith we need to have to be one of His saints and what those saints do Rev14:12? The Bible is not full of contradictions and does not teach disobeying God is good and obeying Him is bad. But its sad this is what is being taught by the majority, that somehow the Holy Spirit who wrote the Law of God who enables the Christian believer to keep them through love and now we are being bewitched if responding and cooperating with the Spirit.

 

[HIM]

I have gone through Heb. 3 and 4 verse by verse including the Greek translation nuances and am yet to see someone refute it. If you think you can then please go for it.

You are not refuting anything posted to you by your response above. Address the points brought out by the post, thanks.

Why stop at verses 4 and 5? Verse 6 adds quite a bit of clarity to what the previous two verses are saying.

Two things being mentioned in verses 4 and 5. The rest to which is called the Gospel in verse 2 and the seventh day. Verse 6 goes back to speaking of the rest which is the Gospel that some have yet to enter in.

Really? Matthew was written between 55 to 65 ad before the temple was destroyed. But let’s look at who Matthew was warning in Matt.24:20.

“then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days! Moreover, pray that when you flee, it will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24‬:‭16‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 24:16-20 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But | New American Standard Bible -

then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But

bible.com

He is warning the Jews in Judea which are Jews so, of course, the warning about the tribulation happening on the Sabbath would be of concern to them. Please take verses in context.

Yes really. Grammatically speaking the context is continuous from verse 1 to at least 31 when it speaks of Christ coming with His angels to gather the elect. How do we know? By His use of words like and, but, then, when wherefore, and so forth. These words connect what is about to be said to what is already said. So that means up to Christ's coming in the clouds of glory with His angels he expects His followers to still be keeping the Sabbath.


Matt 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to [him] for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Matt 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Matt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Matt 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Matt 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Matt 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Matt 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Matt 24:8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows.
Matt 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Matt 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Matt 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Matt 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Matt 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Matt 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Matt 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Matt 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Studyman]

Bottom line is those who push the Law on believers are bewitched as Paul said they were, and no longer able to submit to the clear reading of the text.

Exactly what Paul encountered.

This is the foundation of your error, that the Pharisees were trying get the Galatians to obey God's Laws. While it is true that, just like the many "Christians" in Matthew 7 were convinced they were "Following Jesus", the Pharisees promoted and maybe even believed that they were "pushing", "The Law of Moses".

But they were not, and the teaching that they were, although popular, is an insidious lie that has been adopted by the "many", "who cast out demons in Christ's Name."

To believe that the Pharisees were promoting God's Laws, and not their own, I would have to REJECT EVERY recorded WORD of the Jesus "of the Bible", that HE spoke to define the Pharisees. I would have to reject Paul's teaching about who they "Yielded themselves" servants to obey. I would have to REJECT the entire Law and Prophets concerning the Priests and prophets that God Himself said HE didn't send.

The Pharisees had a LAW, and they promoted it to all. But it wasn't God's LAWS. I tried to show you, not my words, but the Scriptures themselves which prove this, but to no avail.

This "leaven" that is promoted by the mainstream religions of this world God placed us in, has spread and poisoned the minds of so many against God, as Jesus Himself warned. Every Scripture is viewed through the prism that the Pharisees were rejected because they were pushing God's Laws, as God instructed. The "Yoke" the Pharisees were trying to place on the Disciples and their fathers before that, in Acts 15, is viewed and promoted by the mainstream preachers of this world, as "God's Laws".

The philosophy is then generated by the "course of this world" that God placed Laws impossible to obey on the necks of men who trusted HIM, and then God lied to them by telling them His Laws were for their well being, and then God killed them by the thousands when they "Refused to comply with God's Laws".

So Jesus had to come and save mankind from God's Laws in part by "Refusing to Comply with His Father's Laws" Himself, by "breaking God's Sabbath" and "refusing to comply to God Laws" concerning Adultery. Both of which are exposed as untrue, when a man actually studied the Holy scriptures that Paul said were trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

Jesus exposed the religion of the Pharisees by removing the lipstick, and make up and allowing those who truly believe Him to see who the Pharisees truly served and whose words they lived by.

These religions, as Isaiah 1 and Paul describes, rejected God's Commandments and Judgments, and created their own. They full well rejected God's Commandments to the point of God calling them Sodom and Gomorrah. And yet each week they would gather before God bringing the blood of an innocent being, as per the Law, to justify them of their willful disobedience.

And Paul told them, just as God did through Isaiah 1, "By the Works of the Law is no flesh justified".

But what did it mean for the promoters of the Pharisees religion, to accept what was actually written in scriptures? You can answer this in your own mind by asking the same thing of yourself. As Jesus told us, the "Cost" of accepting the truth is just too much for "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord.

My hope is that men might come to Love God more than a popular religion, and will as Paul teaches, "Repent, turn to God, and bring forth Works worthy of repentance".

 

[Studyman]

Paul made the claim about having in his past kept the Law, as a redeemed believer - do you think he was lying ???

Please show me what you are speaking to.

 

[DamianWarS]

I’ve been watching this thread with minor participation. I keep the Sabbath and believe it is an eternal decree; however, I’ve been waiting for Catholics and Protestants to defend and justify keeping Sunday. The Catholic teaching is that keeping Saturday (Sabbath) is a sign of the Old Covenant, and keeping Sunday (The Lord’s Day) is a sign of the New Covenant in remembrance of the Resurrection. I disagree; however, I would like to learn how the Catholic teaching is justified by Scripture. If my brothers and sisters in Christ keep the Lord’s Day to fulfill the fourth commandment, it is a good thing, but how is it justified other than tradition and the decrees of the Roman Church in 321 AD ?

There is more to this discussion then a Saturday/Sunday stance. Although some Christian traditions maintain that Sunday is the new Sabbath no where in scripture tells us this. The focus of Sunday is different, it is a celebration of the resurrection where Sabbath is ceremony rest. (much of the celebration of the resurrection of Christ has turned into ceremony as well)

A progressive way of viewing Sabbath looks to the spiritual values over the physical. Similar to how most if not all physical structures of the old are viewed in the new as spiritual values. Circumcision is a prime example, explicitly denounced in the new for physical value (1 Cor 7:19, Gal 5:6, Gal 6:15, etc..) but in Gen 17 called a sign of an everlasting covenant and required in the physical. The Sabbath too is called a sign of an everlasting covenant so the language itself does not qualify Sabbath law as special over other laws that clearly we approach spiritually and no longer keep physically (at least by Creed)

The spiritual values of the Sabbath are motr important over the physical just as it is with other physical requirements of the law (the sacrifice for example) Sabbath ultimately points to rest in Christ, which is a more noble value of the law over ceremonial physical rest. We know that without physical rest we may still have spiritual rest but the reverse is not the same. We may keep physical rest requirements, but in fact not have spiritual rest so the spiritual component is superior to the physical.

Christ tells us in Mat 12:12 that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. The direct example given is rescuing sheep fallen into pits. Do we really need to be spoon-fed the answer? Christ speaks of a more noble work, not just frivolous labour. That work is regarding his kingdom, the sheep are his sheep and the pits are spiritual pits they themselves cannot get out of. The "goodness" is indiscriminate of the any action or work we do and is more about missional living in all moments. If in fact we are doing what Christ calls good then our actions are redeemed as lawful, regardless of what they are or what day they are on. The million dolar question is shouldn't we always be doing good and acting this way? This perspective tends to make the Sabbath law obsolete, as goodness is a better way, and it is also meant for every moment living. This is consistent with Christ's law of loving your God then loving neighbour as yourself as a better way to keep the law.

The creation account itself can be read as a salvation metaphor. light is spoken into darkness that starts a transformation ending a completed work that ushers in rest. Is that the spiritual work done inside of each of us? At the end however it is not a day that is called holy but us, through Christ (the light) that has made us holy. A key take away is the need for a completed work to usher in the 7th day. Can we complete the work to partipate in the Sabbath? Certainly not by our power but Christ is the one who completes a work in us and makes us Holy just as he does in creation. This is why the new calls this process the "new creation" (2 Cor 5, Gal 6)

We can also read the 4th to show spiritual values too baked in. The 4th is not just about an individual not working but everyone under their care. The perspective is given to heads of households and they are tasked with keeping rest in their entire household. Not just their family, but the slaves and animals too. The thing with especially animals, is they have no authority to rest. They cannot demand rest and take it for themselves, otherwise they will be beaten or worse, put to death. Any rest they take must be given to them, and not just by anyone, but one with authority to give the rest. This is a powerful salvation metaphor baked into the 4th commandment. What we are left with is we can neither complete the work to take the rest, nor have any authority to take the rest. We must rely on Christ to receive the rest, this rest of course is offered in all moments.

Christ calls himself the Lord of the Sabbath (Mt 12). This is a claim of authority, it is not a reference to the Lord's Day which is a different context and a different day. Christ is declaring he has authority over the Sabbath. Authority means just that, he can say what goes and what doesn't. He was just told off for picking grain and rather than defending the actions, he defends his authority, ranking himself and followers as priest that are allowed to violate the Sabbath to do their duties, then declaring he is the one who has the authority over the Sabbath. This is still a defence of the actions but it is from a position of authority that he's allowed to do it not that the action itself is labelled work or not work. Believers are called a royal priesthood (1 Pe 2:9) so as priest are we not allowed to do duties fitting to the priesthood that may violate the Sabbath?

Not all actions of permissible. We are chosen to do his work which is his goodness. But so long as we are doing his work then Sabbath rest in the physical sense is deemed obsolete as the work is more noble. This thing with the work is that it is an every moment thing, not just a once-a-week thing. So if we are doing it, which is the call of every believer, then we don't need to worry about the requirements of the law since we are living out Christ and walking by his spirit. Not all actions are permissible but we shouldn't be doing these things anyway on any day of the week. Broadly speaking if we can call a work good on a Tuesday then it can be good on a Saturday too. So if you can show Christ to others and use work as a mechanism to do so on a Tuesday then it can be done on a Saturday too. The mechanism is just the tool used for the goodness. If it is void of goodness the a better question is why are we doing this action at all?

Christ charges us to do his work in Mat 12:11. If a sheep is trapped in a pit it is not just good to pull it out, but it is our obligation (if we are able) Spiritually speaking how many bleating sheep are around us trapped in spiritually dark pits? Those bleats don't stop on the Sabbath so how dare we rest when there is so much work to do.

 

[Jerry N.]

There is more to this discussion then a Saturday/Sunday stance. Although some Christian traditions maintain that Sunday is the new Sabbath no where in scripture tells us this. The focus of Sunday is different, it is a celebration of the resurrection where Sabbath is ceremony rest. (much of the celebration of the resurrection of Christ has turned into ceremony as well)

A progressive way of viewing Sabbath looks to the spiritual values over the physical. Similar to how most if not all physical structures of the old are viewed in the new as spiritual values. Circumcision is a prime example, explicitly denounced in the new for physical value (1 Cor 7:19, Gal 5:6, Gal 6:15, etc..) but in Gen 17 called a sign of an everlasting covenant and required in the physical. The Sabbath too is called a sign of an everlasting covenant so the language itself does not qualify Sabbath law as special over other laws that clearly we approach spiritual and no longer keep physically (at least by Creed)

The spiritual values of the Sabbath are the most important over the physical just as it is with other physical requirements of the law (the sacrafice for example) Sabbath ultimately points to rest in Christ which is a more noble value of the law over physical rest. We know that without physical rest we may still have spiritual rest but the reverse is not the same. We may keep physical rest requirements but in fact not have spiritual rest so the spiritual component is the greater focus.

Christ tells us in Mat 12:12 that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. The direct example given is rescuing sheep fallen into pits. Do we really need to be spoon feed the answer? Christ speaks of a more noble work, not just frivolous labour. That work is regarding his kingdom, the sheep are his sheep and the pits spiritual pits they themselves cannot get out of. The "goodness" is indiscriminate of the any action or work we do and is more about missional living in all moments. If it fact we are doing what Christ calls good then our actions are redeemed as lawful regardless of what they are or what day they are on. The million dolar question is shouldn't we always be doing good and acting this way? This perspective tends to make the Sabbath law obsolete as goodness is a better way and it is also meant for every moment living.

The creation account itself can be read as a salvation metaphor. light is spoken into darkness that starts a transformation ending a completed work that ushers in rest. Is that the spiritual work done inside of each of us? At the end however it is not a day that is called holy by us, through Christ (the light) that has made us holy. We can also read the 4th to show similar spiritual values. The 4th is not just about an individual not working but everyone under their care. The perspective is given to heads of holdholds and they are tasked with keeping rest in their entire household. Not just their family but the slaves too. Not just the slaves, but even the animals. The things with slaves or especially animals is they have no authority to rest. They cannot demand rest and take it for themselves otherwise they will be beaten or worse put to death. Any rest they take must be given to them, and not just by anyone but one with authority to give the rest. This is a powerful salvation metaphor baked into the 4th commandment. So then what is this rest?

Christ calls himself the Lord of the Sabbath (Mt 12). This is a claim of authority it is not a reference to the Lord's Day which is a different context and different day. Christ is declaring he has authority over the Sabbath. Authority means just that, he can say what goes and what doesn't. He is just told off for picking grain and rather than defending the actions as work or not work, he defends his authority, ranking himself and followers as priest that are allowed to violate the Sabbath to do their duties then declaring he the one who has the authority over the Sabbath. This is still a defensive of the actions but it is from a position of authority not of justification. Believers are called a royal priesthood (1 Pe 2:9) so as priest are we not allowed to do duties fitting to the priesthood that may violate the Sabbath?

Not all actions of permissible. We are chosen to do his work and his goodness. But so long as we are doing his work then Sabbath rest in the physical sense is deemed obsolete as the work is more noble. This thing with the work is that it is an every moment thing not just a once a week thing. So if we are doing it, which is the call of every believer, then we don't need to worry about the requirments of the law since we are living out Christ and walking by his spirit. So where not all actions are permissible we shouldn't be doing this things anyway. But broadly speaking if we can call a work good on a Tuesday then it can be good on a Saturday too. So you of can show Christ to others and use work as a mechanism to do so on a Tuesday then it can be done on a Saturday too.

Christ charges us to do his work in Mat 12:11. If a sheep is trapped in a pit it is not just good to pull it out but it is our obligation. Spiritually speaking how many bleating sheep are around us trapped in spiritually dark pits? Those bleats don't stop on the Sabbath so how dare we rest when there is so much work to do.

I have to mill this over for a while. At first read, it seems very good. I'll try to make a more intelligent response tomorrow. Thanks.

 

[Hentenza]

You are not refuting anything posted to you by your response above. Address the points brought out by the post, thanks.

I have been refuting this since I started on this thread.

Two things being mentioned in verses 4 and 5. The rest to which is called the Gospel in verse 2 and the seventh day. Verse 6 goes back to speaking of the rest which is the Gospel that some have yet to enter in.

“Therefore, we must fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also did; but the word they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united with those who listened with faith. For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “As I swore in My anger, They certainly shall not enter My rest,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; and again in this passage, “They certainly shall not enter My rest.” Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who previously had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience, He again sets a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before, “Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.””
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭1‬-‭7‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 4:1-7 Therefore, we must fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also did; but | New American Standard Bible - NAS

Therefore, we must fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also did; but

bible.com

Verse two is indeed about the gospel being preached to both Israel and the Christians. It benefited the Christians and not Israel. “We who have believed” are Christians that heard the gospel and have faith so they enter Jesus rest (“That rest”) but Israel did not enter God’s rest (the rest mentioned at the bottom of book 3 which seems to point at entering the promise land) because God was angry at them for their unbelief. No seventh day in verse 2.

Verses 4 and 5 quote different passages from scripture (Gen.2 and Ps. 95). Here God reiterates that the Jews will not enter His rest. God is still angry at Israel. Verse 6 states that “since it remains some to enter”, which are unbelievers yet to accept the gospel, AND the Jews, who did not believe the gospel, makes it clear by the contrast that presently there will be no rest for Israel. So verse 7 designates a new day as today. So the invitation for Jesus rest is now, today. There is a sense of urgency. There is nothing here about continuing the sabbath for the church.

Yes really. Grammatically speaking the context is continuous from verse 1 to at least 31 when it speaks of Christ coming with His angels to gather the elect. How do we know? By His use of words like and, but, then, when wherefore, and so forth. These words connect what is about to be said to what is already said. So that means up to Christ's coming in the clouds of glory with His angels he expects His followers to still be keeping the Sabbath.


Matt 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to [him] for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Matt 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Matt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Matt 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Matt 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Matt 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Matt 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Matt 24:8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows.
Matt 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Matt 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Matt 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Matt 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Matt 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Matt 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Matt 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Matt 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Did you add words to scripture without annotation? Never add words to scripture without brackets and citation.

Determining the audience and who the writer is talking about is hermeneutics 101. Jesus and the apostles are at the mount of Olives looking directly at Jerusalem. Verse 16 tells you exactly who Jesus is warning about what is to come. The woes to follow are fully directed at those in Judea. You could, however, argue from an eschatalogical view that it applies to a future tribulation for all but that would be YMMV based on your eschatological view.

 

[Jerry N.]

There is more to this discussion then a Saturday/Sunday stance. Although some Christian traditions maintain that Sunday is the new Sabbath no where in scripture tells us this. The focus of Sunday is different, it is a celebration of the resurrection where Sabbath is ceremony rest. (much of the celebration of the resurrection of Christ has turned into ceremony as well)

A progressive way of viewing Sabbath looks to the spiritual values over the physical. Similar to how most if not all physical structures of the old are viewed in the new as spiritual values. Circumcision is a prime example, explicitly denounced in the new for physical value (1 Cor 7:19, Gal 5:6, Gal 6:15, etc..) but in Gen 17 called a sign of an everlasting covenant and required in the physical. The Sabbath too is called a sign of an everlasting covenant so the language itself does not qualify Sabbath law as special over other laws that clearly we approach spiritually and no longer keep physically (at least by Creed)

The spiritual values of the Sabbath are motr important over the physical just as it is with other physical requirements of the law (the sacrifice for example) Sabbath ultimately points to rest in Christ, which is a more noble value of the law over ceremonial physical rest. We know that without physical rest we may still have spiritual rest but the reverse is not the same. We may keep physical rest requirements, but in fact not have spiritual rest so the spiritual component is superior to the physical.

Christ tells us in Mat 12:12 that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. The direct example given is rescuing sheep fallen into pits. Do we really need to be spoon-fed the answer? Christ speaks of a more noble work, not just frivolous labour. That work is regarding his kingdom, the sheep are his sheep and the pits are spiritual pits they themselves cannot get out of. The "goodness" is indiscriminate of the any action or work we do and is more about missional living in all moments. If in fact we are doing what Christ calls good then our actions are redeemed as lawful, regardless of what they are or what day they are on. The million dolar question is shouldn't we always be doing good and acting this way? This perspective tends to make the Sabbath law obsolete, as goodness is a better way, and it is also meant for every moment living. This is consistent with Christ's law of loving your God then loving neighbour as yourself as a better way to keep the law.

The creation account itself can be read as a salvation metaphor. light is spoken into darkness that starts a transformation ending a completed work that ushers in rest. Is that the spiritual work done inside of each of us? At the end however it is not a day that is called holy but us, through Christ (the light) that has made us holy. A key take away is the need for a completed work to usher in the 7th day. Can we complete the work to partipate in the Sabbath? Certainly not by our power but Christ is the one who completes a work in us and makes us Holy just as he does in creation. This is why the new calls this process the "new creation" (2 Cor 5, Gal 6)

We can also read the 4th to show spiritual values too baked in. The 4th is not just about an individual not working but everyone under their care. The perspective is given to heads of households and they are tasked with keeping rest in their entire household. Not just their family, but the slaves and animals too. The thing with especially animals, is they have no authority to rest. They cannot demand rest and take it for themselves, otherwise they will be beaten or worse, put to death. Any rest they take must be given to them, and not just by anyone, but one with authority to give the rest. This is a powerful salvation metaphor baked into the 4th commandment. What we are left with is we can neither complete the work to take the rest, nor have any authority to take the rest. We must rely on Christ to receive the rest, this rest of course is offered in all moments.

Christ calls himself the Lord of the Sabbath (Mt 12). This is a claim of authority, it is not a reference to the Lord's Day which is a different context and a different day. Christ is declaring he has authority over the Sabbath. Authority means just that, he can say what goes and what doesn't. He was just told off for picking grain and rather than defending the actions, he defends his authority, ranking himself and followers as priest that are allowed to violate the Sabbath to do their duties, then declaring he is the one who has the authority over the Sabbath. This is still a defence of the actions but it is from a position of authority that he's allowed to do it not that the action itself is labelled work or not work. Believers are called a royal priesthood (1 Pe 2:9) so as priest are we not allowed to do duties fitting to the priesthood that may violate the Sabbath?

Not all actions of permissible. We are chosen to do his work which is his goodness. But so long as we are doing his work then Sabbath rest in the physical sense is deemed obsolete as the work is more noble. This thing with the work is that it is an every moment thing, not just a once-a-week thing. So if we are doing it, which is the call of every believer, then we don't need to worry about the requirements of the law since we are living out Christ and walking by his spirit. Not all actions are permissible but we shouldn't be doing these things anyway on any day of the week. Broadly speaking if we can call a work good on a Tuesday then it can be good on a Saturday too. So if you can show Christ to others and use work as a mechanism to do so on a Tuesday then it can be done on a Saturday too. The mechanism is just the tool used for the goodness. If it is void of goodness the a better question is why are we doing this action at all?

Christ charges us to do his work in Mat 12:11. If a sheep is trapped in a pit it is not just good to pull it out, but it is our obligation (if we are able) Spiritually speaking how many bleating sheep are around us trapped in spiritually dark pits? Those bleats don't stop on the Sabbath so how dare we rest when there is so much work to do.

I have read your post more carefully, and I understand your points. You wrote “Christ is declaring he has authority over the Sabbath. Authority means just that, he can say what goes and what doesn't. He is just told off for picking grain and rather than defending the actions as work or not work, he defends his authority, ranking himself and followers as priest that are allowed to violate the Sabbath to do their duties then declaring he the one who has the authority over the Sabbath.” The focus on the authority of Christ is very important, but Christ and His Apostles did not violate the Sabbath. As pointed out in earlier posts, what they did was permissible and the Pharisees were just looking for trouble. Anyhow, the purpose of my post was to give an opening for those who keep The Lord’s Day a chance to state their case without attacking people like me who keep the Sabbath. You did an excellent job. It is important, because there is a difference between “breaking” one of the commandments as a rebellion against God and doing so to magnify the work of Christ. I think keeping the Sabbath is a great blessing, and you have made a clear case why one should not judge those who don’t. As we say here, go with God.

 

[HIM]

Then how do you understand Galatians 3? Why was he rebuking them when he said...

10 For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse. ???

This is the foundation of your error, that the Pharisees were trying get the Galatians to obey God's Laws.

Galatians 3 is understood by understanding the immediate context of the passage and over all premise of the letter.
The Faith of Abraham and we the church having this same faith and how it relates to the Gospel is the immediate context and premise of the letter. If we go back to chapter 1 verses 5-8 we see that the Gospel is that Jesus died for our sins that we be delivered from this PRESENT evil world according to the will of our Father God.

Gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
Gal 1:5 To whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

As we continue we see in verses that this Gospel of Jesus giving Himself for our sins to deliver us from this present evil age was through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

As we move further along we see when it pleased God, at the time He seen fit He called Paul by His grace. And that this revelation of Jesus Christ was a revealing of Christ in Paul, so that Paul might preach the Gospel of him that they delivered from this present evil world.

Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called [me] by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

And In this revelation, this revealing of Christ in Paul so that he might preach this Gospel of Christ that delivers us from this present evil world. God was seen in Paul by those who were in Christ experiencing this deliverance that Paul himself was experiencing and those who seen this glorified God and His power and grace seeing God working in him.

Gal 1:22 And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:
Gal 1:23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.
Gal 1:24 And they glorified God in me.

Before we continue, Amen?

 

[HIM]

Did you add words to scripture without annotation? Never add words to scripture without brackets and citation.

Determining the audience and who the writer is talking about is hermeneutics 101. Jesus and the apostles are at the mount of Olives looking directly at Jerusalem. Verse 16 tells you exactly who Jesus is warning about what is to come. The woes to follow are fully directed at those in Judea. You could, however, argue from an eschatalogical view that it applies to a future tribulation for all but that would be YMMV based on your eschatological view.

No it is what is written. 3 questions were asked in verse 3, when shall these things be in regard to the destruction of the Temple. When shall be the sign of Jesus' coming and when shall be the end of the world. What follows is an answer to all three. The audience is any and all throughout the ages until He comes in His glory. How do we know?

Because Grammatically speaking the context is continuous from verse 1 to at least 31 when it speaks of Christ coming with His angels to gather the elect at the end of this world.

How do we know? By His use of words like and, but, then, when wherefore, and so forth. These words connect what is about to be said to what is already said. And they are in the Greek also. So that means up to Christ's coming in the clouds of glory with His angels he expects His followers to still be keeping the Sabbath.


Matt 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to [him] for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Matt 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Matt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Matt 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Matt 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Matt 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Matt 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Matt 24:8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows.
Matt 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Matt 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Matt 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Matt 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Matt 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Matt 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Matt 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Matt 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No it is what is written. 3 questions were asked in verse 3, when shall these things be in regard to the destruction of the Temple. When shall be the sign of Jesus' coming and when shall be the end of the world. What follows is an answer to all three. The audience is any and all throughout the ages until He comes in His glory. How do we know?

Because Grammatically speaking the context is continuous from verse 1 to at least 31 when it speaks of Christ coming with His angels to gather the elect at the end of this world.

How do we know? By His use of words like and, but, then, when wherefore, and so forth. These words connect what is about to be said to what is already said. And they are in the Greek also. So that means up to Christ's coming in the clouds of glory with His angels he expects His followers to still be keeping the Sabbath.


Matt 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to [him] for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Matt 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Matt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Matt 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Matt 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Matt 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Matt 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Matt 24:8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows.
Matt 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Matt 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Matt 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Matt 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Matt 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Matt 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Matt 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Matt 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Yes, Mathew 24 is the only place these predictions are in chronological order. Dan/Rev etc are formatted in repeat and enlarge.

So that means up to Christ's coming in the clouds of glory with His angels he expects His followers to still be keeping the Sabbath.

Yes and will continue on...


Isa 66:22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

I can't imagine what it will be like to worship before Christ on the Sabbath. He tells us people will still do things during the week Isa 66:21 They shall build houses and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.

The Sabbath continues for worship but now instead of in spirit, everyone will come before Him.