The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

[Carl Emerson]

Rom. 14: 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Perfectly said...

Thank you @Studyman and Paul.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Perfectly said...

Thank you @Studyman and Paul.

Should we follow what man esteems or what God esteems Isa58:13 Exo20:8-11. The apostles said the opposite, we ought to obey God over man. Acts 5:29.

The Sabbath is not even mentioned once in all of Romans 14, they were discussing what man esteems like we do when someone thinks they should keep Christmas and others do not or Easter. Not debating should we obey or not obey God.

 

[Jerry N.]

Perfectly said...

Thank you @Studyman and Paul.

If you keep the Sabbath, it should be because your heart leads you to it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

If you keep the Sabbath, it should be because your heart leads you to it.

We should want to obey Jesus because we love Him John14:15 even if it's not popular. He said it wouldn't be. Agreed our heart should want to keep the Sabbath because we love spending time with Him on the day He sanctified, blessed and made holy to do so.

 

[Carl Emerson]

We should want to obey Jesus because we love Him John14:15 even if it's not popular. He said it wouldn't be. Agreed our heart should want to keep the Sabbath because we love spending time with Him on the day He sanctified, blessed and made holy to do so.

Romans 14 is about not judging others on the basis of the faith they have been given.

Claiming a 'Greater Holiness' by observing "a day" is exactly what Paul is teaching against.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Romans 14 is about not judging others on the basis of the faith they have been given.

Claiming a 'Greater Holiness' by observing "a day" is exactly what Paul is teaching against.

It says what man esteems

Rom. 14: 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

When did man replace God? When did faith come by man or faith void the law Rom3:31 When can man remove God’s sanctification and blessing, verse please We are told we can’t Num 23:20

The covenant was ratified at the death of Jesus. Paul came after Jesus ratified His covenant. Had there been a change to one of God’s commandments Jesus would need to die all over again, but His sacrifice was once and for all Heb10:10. It’s one reason we need to be careful with Paul writings 2Peter3:16. Paul did not come to destroy God’s times and laws, that is not the spirit that comes from God He warned us about Dan7:25

 

[Mercy Shown]

No immediate consequences to breaking the Sabbath. This can be said for the first four commandments that concern loving God. There is a reason why there are not immediate consequences for not loving God. Each and every one of us has a choice to make; whether we will follow God or not. The wages of sin is still death. Whether or not you receive judgment immediately or later is beside the point. If one thinks about it, there are no immediate consequences for any of the commandments if you're not caught.

• Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
• 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
• John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
• 1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Also...

• 2 Peter 3:3-7 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
• 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

No one knows how to observe the Sabbath. Scripture tells us how to keep the Sabbath.

Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

• Commanded to remember: Remember the Sabbath day...
• Commanded to keep it holy: ...to keep it holy.

Notice the care taken to tell us to remember to keep it holy.

• Remembrance; of keeping it, but also of creation (below).
• Holy is how to keep it.
• Commanded to work six days: Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work...
• Commanded to keep the seventh day: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. (spoken with authority, as if commandments weren't already authoritative)
• Why? Creation: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day...
• As a result of which: The Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Isaiah 58:13-14 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

• "Turn away your foot," can be translated as
  • Do not travel
  • Return to the Sabbath
• Do not do your own pleasure
• Delight in the Sabbath
• Honor Him
• Not doing your own ways
• Not finding your own pleasure
• Not speaking your own words

Conclusion

The Sabbath: There is a long list of scripture supporting the keeping of the Sabbath (posted countless times on this forum), and only a couple verses that could possibly be taken out of context as negating the Sabbath. The supporting scripture for the Sabbath stands in stark contrast. I think I'll stick with the overwhelming evidence for the Sabbath. God did not change the Sabbath day, nor did He command us to stop observing it. Just as He never commanded us to go ahead and kill or commit adultery or lie.

Consequences: Scripture makes it plain that consequences are pending.

Keeping the Sabbath: The Bible gives easy guidelines for keeping the Sabbath, as I've shown.

What makes more sense? That God gave Ten commandments and all of them are still binding, or that God gave nine and one is no longer binding? That's a rhetorical question. The answer is obvious.

But you have not given explained how to keep it. The Pharisees claimed to keep it and accused of Jesus of being a Sabbath breaker. It’s an easy thing to do by claim but do you buy things on the Sabbath? Do you eat out on the Sabbath? Is it OK to swim on the Sabbath? Or do we simply let everyone’s conscience be their guide and thus Sabbath keeping is more of a platitude than a concrete concept Or do we simply let everyone’s conscience be their guide and thus Sabbath keeping is more of a platitude than a concrete concept.

 

[Mercy Shown]

The crux of the issue is judgment. Those who preach keeping Sabbath continually judges this who do not. Those who do not keep Sabbath, just want to be left alone.

Paul made a very strong plea to Christians not to cause stumbling blocks over this matter. I encourage everyone to read Romans 14.
Blessings

even though Jesus said that we should pay more attention to the weightier matters of the law most Sabbatarians make Sabbath as the weightiest matter of the law when, in fact it’s not mentioned in the list Jesus gave.

 

[Carl Emerson]

It says what man esteems

Rom. 14: 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

When did man replace God? When did faith come by man or faith void the law Rom3:31 When can man remove God’s sanctification and blessing, verse please We are told we can’t Num 23:20

The covenant was ratified at the death of Jesus. Paul came after Jesus ratified His covenant. Had there been a change to one of God’s commandments Jesus would need to die all over again, but His sacrifice was once and for all Heb10:10. It’s one reason we need to be careful with Paul writings 2Peter3:16. Paul did not come to destroy God’s times and laws, that is not the spirit that comes from God He warned us about Dan7:25

The Curse of the Law was broken on the Cross.

Gal 3
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us..."

 

[Mercy Shown]

What are natural consequences?

if I am told to not eat the cookie or I’ll be punished, And I do so I’m put in time out that is a constructed consequence. If I’m told not to drink poison, and I do dying would be a natural consequence from drinking the poison.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The Curse of the Law was broken on the Cross.

Gal 3
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us..."

Yes, sadly not everyone accepts His free gift because they love their sins, more than their love of Jesus to seek His help in overcoming. Proverbs 28:13 John3:19-21 Heb10:26-30

 

[Mercy Shown]

Yes, sadly not everyone accepts His free gift because they love their sins, more than their love of Jesus to seek His help in overcoming. Proverbs 28:13 John3:19-21 Heb10:26-30

Jesus is not the help. He is the author and finisher of our faith. To judge like this post does is a violation of Christ’s commands. Everyone who accepts His free gift will be saved to the uttermost unless they turn and give it back.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus is not the help. He is the author and finisher of our faith. To judge like this post does is a violation of Christ’s commands. Everyone who accepts His free gift will be saved to the uttermost unless they turn and give it back.

Jesus speaking here:

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Posting Scripture is not judging. That’s for God to do, helping people hopefully make better decisions based on all the Scripture is what Jesus tells us to do. James 5:20 Yes, everyone who accepts His free gift to overcome will be saved. Pro28:13 1 John1:9

Sadly not everyone wants to

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 Foreveryone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have beendone in God.”

Jesus came to save us from our sins Mat1:21, not in them Heb10:26-30

 

[Mercy Shown]

Most Christian sabbath keeping is tied to the teachings of Ellen White from the 1830s, and the seventh-day adventist church. Their main teacher these days seems to be Doug Batchelor. And basically the way to be a sabbath keeper under that flag is to attend an sda church on saturday and follow what you're taught by them.

Then there's Messianic Judaism. Which is basically practicing Judaism while believing in Christ. So they keep the sabbath the way the Bible tells Jews to keep the sabbath.

I know several SDA’s and none of them keep the Sabbath the same way. One gentleman loves to watch the ball game and mow his lawn. The other family eats a huge dinner and sacks out afterwards for a snooze. Th older couple go bird watching and then have a late afternoon meal at their favorite dinner.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I know several SDA’s and none of them keep the Sabbath the same way. One gentleman loves to watch the ball game and mow his lawn. The other family eats a huge dinner and sacks out afterwards for a snooze. Th older couple go bird watching and then have a late afternoon meal at their favorite dinner.

There are 22 million SDA’s, not everyone who says they are SDA’s are. We will not be judged based on what others (preceivied) do or don’t do. We all stand before Christ based on what we do 2 Cor5:10. I do not believe He is going to cut anyone slack because one person didn’t obey therefore, it relieves our moral obligation. It’s didn’t work out that way in the days of Noah and He told us it would be similar to His Second Coming. Mat 24:37-39

 

[Mercy Shown]

Jesus speaking here:

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

you know that this is referring to the spirit. And you know that Jesus is the author and finisher our faith. So there’s no point in trying so hard to be right that one ends up disagreeing with the Bible.

secondly, it is correct that if we love God, we will keep his commands. But what is not true is that we keep his commands in order to love God. Loving God is the cause, and the result is obedience. But what are the commands of Christ? Most Sabbatarians immediately think it’s the 10 Commandments, but is it?

Posting Scripture is not judging. That’s for God to do, helping people hopefully make better decisions based on all the Scripture is what Jesus tells us to do. James 5:20 Yes, everyone who accepts His free gift to overcome will be saved. Pro28:13 1 John1:9

you are correct in saying that posting scripture is not judging. But saying that most people who accept Christ free gift, do so, so they don’t have to overcome sin is a judgment.

Sadly not everyone wants to

Jesus said whoever believes on me has eternal life already. Are you disagreeing with Christ? apostle Paul said that while we were at sinners, Christ died for us. Are you disagreeing with him also? ultimately it sounds like you’re putting the cart before the horse. The horse is Christ salvation to us. The cart is obedience.

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 Foreveryone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have beendone in God.”
yes
Jesus came to save us from our sins Mat1:21, not in them Heb10:26-30

 

[SabbathBlessings]

you know that this is referring to the spirit.

Yes, I know which was given by Jesus through our love and obedience. Why Jesus said “and I will give you” but its based on conditions why He used If.

And you know that Jesus is the author and finisher our faith. So there’s no point in trying so hard to be right that one ends up disagreeing with the Bible.

Yes, He is but faith does not void the law, it establishes it Rom3:31 and sin is breaking God’s law 1 John3:4 James 2:11 which is rebellion and unbelief. Why the Holy Spirit is trying to get our attention, if we hear Him Heb3:7-19 and not harden our hearts continuing in the path that won’t subject ourselves to the law of God Rom8:7-8

secondly, it is correct that if we love God, we will keep his commands. But what is not true is that we keep his commands in order to love God. Loving God is the cause, and the result is obedience. But what are the commands of Christ? Most Sabbatarians immediately think it’s the 10 Commandments, but is it?

Would loving God with all our heart, mind and soul not include the 4 commandments that God personally wrote that tells us how to do this? I find it hard to believe they would not be included.

God divinely wrote them Himself, not just once but twice. He wrote them in stone for its eternal nature and then He writes His laws in our heart 2Cor3:3 Heb 8:10 The first 4 commandments show how to love God and the last 6 how we love our neighbor. They cover so much more than people realize Psa 119:96 just as Jesus taught from this same unit Mat 5:19-30

Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that isin the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

you are correct in saying that posting scripture is not judging. But saying that most people who accept Christ free gift, do so, so they don’t have to overcome sin is a judgment.

I didn’t say we had to overcome sin, Scripture does.

Pro 28:13 He who covers his sins will not prosper,
But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” [g]says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His

Jesus said whoever believes on me has eternal life already. Are you disagreeing with Christ? apostle Paul said that while we were at sinners, Christ died for us. Are you disagreeing with him also? ultimately it sounds like you’re putting the cart before the horse. The horse is Christ salvation to us. The cart is obedience.

I believe Him, I just believe in all of what He teaches and tells us to live by Mat4:4 why the Bible is a big book and not consolidated in one or two verses.

 

[Servus]

I know several SDA’s and none of them keep the Sabbath the same way. One gentleman loves to watch the ball game and mow his lawn. The other family eats a huge dinner and sacks out afterwards for a snooze. Th older couple go bird watching and then have a late afternoon meal at their favorite dinner.

A former SDA pastor told me there's inconsistency in that regard. It mainly seems to be about going to church on Saturday instead of Sunday, and having Saturday as a day off from your job. Those two are a must.

 

[BPPLEE]

if I am told to not eat the cookie or I’ll be punished, And I do so I’m put in time out that is a constructed consequence. If I’m told not to drink poison, and I do dying would be a natural consequence from drinking the poison.

Which commandments have natural consequences?

 

[Studyman]

Romans 14 is about not judging others on the basis of the faith they have been given.

Claiming a 'Greater Holiness' by observing "a day" is exactly what Paul is teaching against.

That's not what my post says, nor what I believe, nor what Paul was teaching. It doesn't matter what a man "esteems", it matters what God Esteems. A new convert is filled with the influences of an evil world, man-made religious traditions and philosophies. God is faithful to reveal them to a true believer in His own good time. In Joshua, God brought Israel out of sin but did not "drive out" all the pagan influences at once. He drove them out little by little, leaving some there to "prove them" whether they would live in obedience to God or not.

A true believer will "Seek first the Kingdom of God and God's Righteousness. He will "present his body a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is his reasonable service". No longer "conformed to this world: but become transformed by the renewing of his mind, that he may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

Paul is telling the Body Of Christ not to judge this person regarding man-made traditions. That this man will "learn from God" and be fully persuaded in his mind whose Word's to live by.

Through his Faith in God, he will "press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. "and if in any thing he be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto him."

In Rom. 14, Paul was talking about the days one man or another man might "Esteem" above another day. Not God's Judgments, or Days God Esteems about another, or God's commandments. Any person of Faith seeking the Righteousness of God, as Jesus instructs, would find what God deems or Esteems as Holy and would Honor and respect God in such matters, wouldn't they?

I know "many", who come in Christ's Name, and "Many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, separate Rom. 14 from the rest of the Bible, and then use it as justification to transgress God's commandments.

As my post said, I don't believe Paul was teaching the weak in Faith to reject God's Commandments and judgments, and I don't believe he write the chapter to justify disobedience to God..