The Ten vs the 603

HIM · Nov 9, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
Hi Him,

Nice post.

I do think God's Word here is the same as God's law.

Hey there SabbathBlessings,
Never said any different, for the law is contained in the word.

We are instructed to be doers of the word and not just hearers. Then a direct comparison is made between someone who is not a doer but a hearer only. If we are not a doer but a hearer only then we are as if we look in a mirror and see our reflection and step away and forget what we seen. That being someone who is begotten of the word of truth and therefore has the word engrafted, part of them. The first fruit of His. Then in reference to the reflection He says, But whosoever looks into the perfect law that of liberty and CONTINUETH THEREIN, he being not a forgetful hearer of the word that is engrafted but a doer of the work, that which they now are. He shall be blessed in his deed.

The issue is to say it is just the Ten when taking care of widows and orphaned children, bridling ones tongue, not having respect to persons, loving they neighbor as thyself are all from the Law and prophets. The law is brought again into the context in verse 9 in relation to having respect to persons. After that the Ten are brought into it tying everything together. It is interesting that we are going to be judge by the finished work of Jesus in us, the word engrafted, being made one with us making us a new creature and thereby given liberty from the old man of sin and not that which is on parchment and tables of stone. Goes nicely with these verses in Romans 2, "Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Soyeong · Nov 9, 2023

Icyspark said:
A basic understanding of some of the differences between the Ten Commandments and all the other requirements, statutes and judgments (the 603) is needed in order to understand what was done away with at the cross.

If everything but the Ten Commandments were done away with at the cross, then that would include commands like those against rape, kidnapping, or favoritism, those lists in verses like Acts 15:19-21, Colossians 6:9-11, Galatians 5:19-21, Titus 3:1-3, and the greatest two commandments.

Icyspark said:
1A. The Ten Commandments were spoken by God.
Exodus 20:1
"Then God spoke all these words, saying . . . "

Exodus 20:22
"GOD said to Moses, "Give this Message to the People of Israel: "You've experienced firsthand how I spoke with you from Heaven."

This is the only instance in the Pentateuch in which God directly proclaims a law to His people without the mediation of Moses. This to me says quite a lot about this particular law. How many times throughout the Bible does God speak audibly so that more than one person can hear Him? I can only thing of a couple of times. He spoke at the baptism of His son, Jesus. He also spoke at the transfiguration of Jesus.

The first two commandments were spoken by God in the 1st person while the third commandments refers to God in the 3rd person, so that is the division between what God directly spoke and where Moses started transmitting them. In Exodus 21:1, it starts with the word "and", so there is a continuance of thought.

Icyspark said:
Deuteronomy 4:12-13
“Then the LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice. He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which He commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.”

1B. Statutes spoken by Moses

Exodus 24:3
“So Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD and all the judgments. And all the people answered with one voice and said, ‘All the words which the LORD has said we will do.’"

2A. Ten Commandments engraved on tablets of stone by God Himself

Exodus 31:18
“And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.”

What significance might there be to the fact that God Himself wrote the Ten Commandments. Not only once did He write them, but twice (see Deuteronomy 10:1-4). Why wouldn’t God entrust Moses to write them down either time?

Exodus 34:28
"And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant--the Ten Commandments."

Here we see that the Ten Commandments are indeed a covenant, but how many commandments are in this particular covenant?

Deuteronomy 5:22
"These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to [Moses]."

Obviously if you lump all the requirements, statutes and laws together you would have more than ten. The number ten clearly limits the total. And if God ADDED NO MORE, how can man? The Ten Commandments are also a complete covenant. God did not say “part of a covenant.” He also did not say they were an installment. They are complete.

2B. Statutes written by Moses in a book (called the BOOK of the COVENANT).

Exodus 24:4, 7
“And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD. And he rose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain, and twelve pillars according to the twelve tribes of Israel. Then he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT and read in the hearing of the people. And they said, ‘All that the LORD has said we will do, and be obedient.’"

In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God commanded him without depart from it, so all of the Law of Moses was commanded by God and all of God's commands have the some moral authority regardless of whether he directly spoke them, He wrote them, or whether He instructed Moses to write them down. Furthermore, there are a number of verses that refer to the Law of Moses as being the Law of God, such as in Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23.

Icyspark said:
Is there a covenant mentioned here? Here also is a promise, albeit a faulty one--by the people.

Deuteronomy 31:24
"So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished..."

3A. The Ten Commandments were placed inside the ark of the covenant.

Deuteronomy 10:5
“Then I turned and came down from the mountain, and PUT THE TABLETS IN THE ARK which I had made; and there they are, just as the LORD commanded me.”

3B. Statutes deposited by the Levites “by the side of the ark.” A.R.V.

Deuteronomy 31:26
“Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against you.”

Why did Moses have to place the BOOK OF THE COVENANT "beside the ark of the covenant"? Wasn't there enough room to put it in with the TEN commandments? And if God gives us so many clues as to the enduring nature of the ten commandments, shouldn't we take heed? If you were going to make a distinction between two sets of laws how would you propose to do any better than what God did?

Now, here’s the good part!

Colossians 2:14, 16-17
"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

Wow! Did you get that? The reason why we no longer observe the Passover, Jewish feasts and offer animal sacrifices is because all of these were a part of the handwriting of ordinances which were a shadow pointing forward to the cross. Once Jesus died, offering an animal sacrifice would be denying His sacrifice. The Sabbath of the Ten Commandments cannot be included in this text for many reasons, but mainly because it was a memorial of something that took place in the past (Exodus 20:11)--it wasn’t pointing forward to the cross. The Sabbath is a memorial of God’s creative power. His creative act is why He is deserving of our worship and praise (see Revelation 14:7)! The Sabbath is the day God rested from His creating and then He blessed, sanctified and made the seventh day holy.

The Law of Moses was given as a gift for our own good (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13), so it is is not against us, but rather what is against us is the list of our transgressions of it. For example, the command against committing murder is a command that is for our own good, but a sign that was nailed to someone's cross that announced that they had been charged with committing murder is an example of a handwritten ordinance that was against them. Jesus did not give himself on the cross to do away with any of God's laws, but to pay the penalty for our transgressions of them, so the list of the sins that we have committed was nailed to his cross and he died in our place to pay the penalty for our sins. In Titus 2:14, it doesn't say that Jesus gave himself to free us form God's law, but to free us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20), while returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from in accordance with what you suggest is the way to reject what he accomplished through the cross. The Greek word "dogma" refers to something other than God's law every other time that it is use by the Bible, so justification needs to be given for why Colossians 2:14 should be interpreted as referring to the Law of God, especially in light of the fact that all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160). We should live in a way that points to the cross by continuing to observe God's holy days rather than a way that points away from the cross.

Icyspark said:
Now if the Ten Commandments are still in existence the following texts will make more sense.

Romans 7:7, 12-13
“What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, ‘You shall not covet.’ Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good... Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

What law is being quoted from here? The ten commandments right? My Bible’s center column chain reference throws me back to Exodus 20:17 and Deuteronomy 5:21, the Ten Commandments. Is this saying that only the tenth command of the Ten Commandments is holy, just and good? Obviously not!

James 2:9-12
“But if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, ’do not commit adultery,’ also said, ’do not murder.’ Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.”

All of God's commandments, are holy, righteous, and good, not just ten of them. For example, in 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to be holy for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving commands for how to do that, such as by refraining from eating unclean animals (Leviticus 11:44-45), so those commands are holy. The Mosaic Law is perfect (Psalms 19:7), it is of liberty (Psalms 119:45), and it blesses those who obey it (Psalms 119:1-3), so when James 1:25 speaks about the perfect law of liberty that blesses those who obey it, he was not saying anything about the Mosaic Law that was not already said in the Psalms. In addition, James 1:27 says that religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world, which is not listed as one of the Ten Commandments. Moreover, in James 2:1-12, he criticized them for committing the sin of favoritism, which again is not listed as one of the Ten Commandments.

Icyspark said:
The Ten Commandments are not a method of salvation. They are our mirror whereby we see that we are sinners in need of a Savior. If there is no law, then there is no sin. If there is no sin, then there is no need of a Savior.

The Mosaic Law does not just reveal our need for a Savior, but also reveals the means that he saves us from not living in obedience to it. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and the Mosaic Law is how we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is the way that he saves us from not living in obedience to it.

Icyspark said:
At this point I’d just like to say I appreciate current dilemma of the critics. Most churches that lay hold on the name Jesus Christ are not teaching that the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments is of any significance. But I ask you, is the majority always right? If so, then the church organization with the most members should be the one that should have all the truth. The Catholic church has the largest membership, but it is also what spawned the name Protestant. The Catholic church was not following the Bible and the Bible only (sola scriptura) and for this reason great reformers such as John Wycliffe, Martin Luther, John Huss, and many others, suffered incredible persecution to bring the truth of the Bible to light. The Catholic church lays claim to the fact that it is the one responsible for changing the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. It also significantly altered the Ten Commandments, dropping out the command not to have graven images and splitting in two one of the other nine in order to maintain the number ten. If indeed the commandments were changed by the Catholic church, could it be that traditions of man have been kept, even in many Protestant denominations? This would have some very negative repercussions because in Mark 7:7-9 Jesus says, “And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do." Furthermore He said, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. For Moses said, ‘honor your father and your mother ...’”

Two people can agree that we should obey everything command in Exodus 20 while disagreeing about how they should be numbered, so numbering them wrong is not setting aside any of the commands of God or establishing something else instead, but is simply clouding what was being communicated by the parallel structure of the commandments.

Icyspark said:
Again please note that Christ refers to a command from the Decalogue. What does He say of the worship that is done by those who lay aside the commandment of God? He says “in vain do they worship me” (see also Acts 5:29 and Colossians 2:8). It doesn’t matter whether you are sincere in your belief. You can be sincerely wrong.

The Sabbath is a special test command placed in the heart of the Ten. It is for us the same as the tree of knowledge of good and evil was for Adam and Eve. It’s not a difficult command, and in fact it was made for our benefit. Mark 2:27 says “the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath:” There is a spiritual benefit to be attained by keeping the Bible Sabbath.

The Sabbath is holy. What does it mean for something to be “holy”? When Moses approached the burning bush, God spoke to him and told him to remove his sandals. Why? Because the place where he was standing was holy ground. What made the ground holy? It was God’s presence in the ground that made it holy, right? In a similar way, that we as finite beings may not fully understand, the seventh day Sabbath is imbued with the presence of God! There is a special blessing to be attained by worshipping on the day which God rested, the day He blessed and made holy. No other day can lay hold of these special claims because God never applied these characteristics to any other day.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

The Israelites worshiped God on every day, which included obeying His command to keep the 7th day holy, so the command to keep the 7th day holy is not the command to only worship God on the 7th day.

Soyeong · Nov 9, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Hi SB,

Do you believe the law of Liberty is The Ten Commandments only? If so, does the "break one, guilty of all" idea apply to other Commandments?

Like, if you don't steal, but you also find yourself not loving others as Jesus loved us, are you guilty of stealing?

The fact that James 2:1-12 criticizes them for committing favoritism demonstrates that his point extends beyond just ten of God's commandments. The consequence of breaking any law is the same insofar as it causes us to become a lawbreaker. So if we do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, then we are still a lawbreaker, or if we obey the Ten Commandments, but still commit favoritism, then we are still a lawbreaker. When we become a lawbreaker, then we need to repeat and return to obedience, which is what James was encouraging them them to do, so his point is about having consistency in our obedience, not that we become guilty of stealing by breaking a different law.

Gary K · Nov 9, 2023

Soyeong said:
The fact that James 2:1-12 criticizes them for committing favoritism demonstrates that his point extends beyond just ten of God's commandments. The consequence of breaking any law is the same insofar as it causes us to become a lawbreaker. So if we do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, then we are still a lawbreaker, or if we obey the Ten Commandments, but still commit favoritism, then we are still a lawbreaker. When we become a lawbreaker, then we need to repeat and return to obedience, which is what James was encouraging them them to do, so his point is about having consistency in our obedience, not that we become guilty of stealing by breaking a different law.

I would disagree as loving others as ourselves is an integral part of God's law. Thus if we are demonstrating by by our favoritism that we do not keep God's commandments.

SabbathBlessings · Nov 9, 2023

HIM said:
Hey there SabbathBlessings,
Never said any different, for the law is contained in the word.

We are instructed to be doers of the word and not just hearers. Then a direct comparison is made between someone who is not a doer but a hearer only. If we are not a doer but a hearer only then we are as if we look in a mirror and see our reflection and step away and forget what we seen. That being someone who is begotten of the word of truth and therefore has the word engrafted, part of them. The first fruit of His. Then in reference to the reflection He says, But whosoever looks into the perfect law that of liberty and CONTINUETH THEREIN, he being not a forgetful hearer of the word that is engrafted but a doer of the work, that which they now are. He shall be blessed in his deed.

The issue is to say it is just the Ten when taking care of widows and orphaned children, bridling ones tongue, not having respect to persons, loving they neighbor as thyself are all from the Law and prophets. The law is brought again into the context in verse 9 in relation to having respect to persons. After that the Ten are brought into it tying everything together. It is interesting that we are going to be judge by the finished work of Jesus in us, the word engrafted, being made one with us making us a new creature and thereby given liberty from the old man of sin and not that which is on parchment and tables of stone. Goes nicely with these verses in Romans 2, "Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Nice post again.

I am of the belief that God's commandments are engrafted throughout His entire Word as sin (breaking His commandments 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7) is what separated man from God Isaiah 59:2 and all of God's Word is the manual on how to reconcile back to God. Rev 22:14

I am also of the belief that God's perfect law the Ten Commandments encompasses so much more than what was stated as Jesus demonstrated Mat 5:19-30 and I believe if one is keeping the Spirit of the commandments which is greater than the letter (not lessor as many believe) than one would automatically be taking care of widows and orphaned children, bridling one's tongue and loving thy neighbor etc. I also believe the more we obey Him, the more light He gives us.

Leaf473 · Nov 9, 2023

Soyeong said:
The fact that James 2:1-12 criticizes them for committing favoritism demonstrates that his point extends beyond just ten of God's commandments. The consequence of breaking any law is the same insofar as it causes us to become a lawbreaker. So if we do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, then we are still a lawbreaker, or if we obey the Ten Commandments, but still commit favoritism, then we are still a lawbreaker. When we become a lawbreaker, then we need to repeat and return to obedience, which is what James was encouraging them them to do, so his point is about having consistency in our obedience, not that we become guilty of stealing by breaking a different law.

Sounds good And I think we agree that the law is a unit. The approach of keeping the Ten Commandments and some others but then not being able to say what those others are, is not an approach found in the scriptures.

Soyeong · Nov 9, 2023

Gary K said:
I would disagree as loving others as ourselves is an integral part of God's law. Thus if we are demonstrating by by our favoritism that we do not keep God's commandments.

If someone is committing favoritism, then they are not loving others as they should, but that does not mean that there aren't other areas where they are loving others as they should.

Bob S · Nov 9, 2023

Icyspark said:
Hi Bob S,

So, you're admitting that you were never a Seventh-day Adventist? Got it.

Where did you conjure up that bit of nonsense?

Icyspark said:
This illustrates the point above. If you were ever an Adventist then you would know that SDA dietary beliefs are derived from the first book of the Bible, not the last four of the Pentateuch.

Is that so? Of course your argument does not hold water. Before Moses their was not any written prohibitions concerning what animals could be eaten. Noah was told he could eat anything that he wanted. That was the last word from God until Sinai. Even then the remainder of the World's population was free to eat anything. This proves you are not thinking clearly and your motive is once again just to try to put me down. Too bad it is not working.

Icyspark said:
Off the rails. Let's get back on track.

I was not off track, but you surely are.

Icyspark said:
Why is it you decided to participate on this thread yet you have nothing to add to the discussion other than attempts at distraction?

I believe I have already added enough to make those who read your posts to stop and think what is really the truth.

Icyspark said:
Do you agree that the Ten Commandments were spoken by God?

That is what scripture indicates.

Icyspark said:
Do you agree that the 603 were spoken by Moses?

No

Icyspark said:
Do you agree that the Ten Commandments were written by God's own finger?

Yes

Icyspark said:
Do you agree that the 603 were written by the hand of Moses?

Yes, do you agree that what God spoke from his mouth was just as sacred as what He wrote with His finger?

Icyspark said:
Do you agree that the Ten Commandments were written in stone?

Yes

Icyspark said:
Do you agree that the 603 were written in a book?

Yes and I believe the ten were too.

Icyspark said:
Do you agree that God commanded that the Ten Commandments be placed inside the ark?

Yes

Icyspark said:
Do you agree that God commanded that the 603 be kept in the SIDE of the ark?

Yes

Icyspark said:
I know your tendency is to attempt to hide the Ten by mashing them in with the 603, but in doing so you're rejecting the obvious separation God set up. God says not to add or subtract from what He says.

All God's laws were sacred. To try to tell us any of the ten were more sacred than the commands to love God and to love your neighbor found in the Mosaic writings is denying the greatest commands ever given.

Icyspark said:
With His law you do both. What we want to know is why you feel free to do what God said not to do?

Actually, it is you that is denying new covenant scripture that tells us we belong to the truth if we believe in Jesus and love others as he taught. You deny the scripture that tells us that the ten commandments were the ministry of death and have been done away. You deny all of which Paul wrote to the Galatians. You deny the beliefs of the Jewish people around the Earth. They believe the ten and the 306 are all sacred and they are accountable to all of the commands. They should have a much better knowledge than you or me.

BobRyan · Nov 9, 2023

Icyspark said:
A basic understanding of some of the differences between the Ten Commandments and all the other requirements, statutes and judgments (the 603) is needed in order to understand what was done away with at the cross.

1A. The Ten Commandments were spoken by God.
Exodus 20:1
"Then God spoke all these words, saying . . . "

Exodus 20:22
"GOD said to Moses, "Give this Message to the People of Israel: "You've experienced firsthand how I spoke with you from Heaven."

This is the only instance in the Pentateuch in which God directly proclaims a law to His people without the mediation of Moses. This to me says quite a lot about this particular law. How many times throughout the Bible does God speak audibly so that more than one person can hear Him? I can only thing of a couple of times. He spoke at the baptism of His son, Jesus. He also spoke at the transfiguration of Jesus.

Deuteronomy 4:12-13
“Then the LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice. He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which He commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.”

1B. Statutes spoken by Moses

Exodus 24:3
“So Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD and all the judgments. And all the people answered with one voice and said, ‘All the words which the LORD has said we will do.’"

2A. Ten Commandments engraved on tablets of stone by God Himself

Exodus 31:18
“And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.”

What significance might there be to the fact that God Himself wrote the Ten Commandments. Not only once did He write them, but twice (see Deuteronomy 10:1-4). Why wouldn’t God entrust Moses to write them down either time?

Exodus 34:28
"And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant--the Ten Commandments."

Here we see that the Ten Commandments are indeed a covenant, but how many commandments are in this particular covenant?

Deuteronomy 5:22
"These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to [Moses]."

Obviously if you lump all the requirements, statutes and laws together you would have more than ten. The number ten clearly limits the total. And if God ADDED NO MORE, how can man? The Ten Commandments are also a complete covenant. God did not say “part of a covenant.” He also did not say they were an installment. They are complete.

2B. Statutes written by Moses in a book (called the BOOK of the COVENANT).

Exodus 24:4, 7
“And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD. And he rose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain, and twelve pillars according to the twelve tribes of Israel. Then he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT and read in the hearing of the people. And they said, ‘All that the LORD has said we will do, and be obedient.’"

Is there a covenant mentioned here? Here also is a promise, albeit a faulty one--by the people.

Deuteronomy 31:24
"So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished..."

3A. The Ten Commandments were placed inside the ark of the covenant.

Deuteronomy 10:5
“Then I turned and came down from the mountain, and PUT THE TABLETS IN THE ARK which I had made; and there they are, just as the LORD commanded me.”

3B. Statutes deposited by the Levites “by the side of the ark.” A.R.V.

Deuteronomy 31:26
“Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against you.”

Why did Moses have to place the BOOK OF THE COVENANT "beside the ark of the covenant"? Wasn't there enough room to put it in with the TEN commandments? And if God gives us so many clues as to the enduring nature of the ten commandments, shouldn't we take heed? If you were going to make a distinction between two sets of laws how would you propose to do any better than what God did?

Now, here’s the good part!

Colossians 2:14, 16-17
"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

Wow! Did you get that? The reason why we no longer observe the Passover, Jewish feasts and offer animal sacrifices is because all of these were a part of the handwriting of ordinances which were a shadow pointing forward to the cross. Once Jesus died, offering an animal sacrifice would be denying His sacrifice. The Sabbath of the Ten Commandments cannot be included in this text for many reasons, but mainly because it was a memorial of something that took place in the past (Exodus 20:11)--it wasn’t pointing forward to the cross. The Sabbath is a memorial of God’s creative power. His creative act is why He is deserving of our worship and praise (see Revelation 14:7)! The Sabbath is the day God rested from His creating and then He blessed, sanctified and made the seventh day holy.

Now if the Ten Commandments are still in existence the following texts will make more sense.

Romans 7:7, 12-13
“What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, ‘You shall not covet.’ Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good... Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

What law is being quoted from here? The ten commandments right? My Bible’s center column chain reference throws me back to Exodus 20:17 and Deuteronomy 5:21, the Ten Commandments. Is this saying that only the tenth command of the Ten Commandments is holy, just and good? Obviously not!

James 2:9-12
“But if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, ’do not commit adultery,’ also said, ’do not murder.’ Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.”

The Ten Commandments are not a method of salvation. They are our mirror whereby we see that we are sinners in need of a Savior. If there is no law, then there is no sin. If there is no sin, then there is no need of a Savior.

At this point I’d just like to say I appreciate current dilemma of the critics. Most churches that lay hold on the name Jesus Christ are not teaching that the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments is of any significance. But I ask you, is the majority always right? If so, then the church organization with the most members should be the one that should have all the truth. The Catholic church has the largest membership, but it is also what spawned the name Protestant. The Catholic church was not following the Bible and the Bible only (sola scriptura) and for this reason great reformers such as John Wycliffe, Martin Luther, John Huss, and many others, suffered incredible persecution to bring the truth of the Bible to light. The Catholic church lays claim to the fact that it is the one responsible for changing the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. It also significantly altered the Ten Commandments, dropping out the command not to have graven images and splitting in two one of the other nine in order to maintain the number ten. If indeed the commandments were changed by the Catholic church, could it be that traditions of man have been kept, even in many Protestant denominations? This would have some very negative repercussions because in Mark 7:7-9 Jesus says, “And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do." Furthermore He said, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. For Moses said, ‘honor your father and your mother ...’”

Again please note that Christ refers to a command from the Decalogue. What does He say of the worship that is done by those who lay aside the commandment of God? He says “in vain do they worship me” (see also Acts 5:29 and Colossians 2:8). It doesn’t matter whether you are sincere in your belief. You can be sincerely wrong.

The Sabbath is a special test command placed in the heart of the Ten. It is for us the same as the tree of knowledge of good and evil was for Adam and Eve. It’s not a difficult command, and in fact it was made for our benefit. Mark 2:27 says “the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath:” There is a spiritual benefit to be attained by keeping the Bible Sabbath.

The Sabbath is holy. What does it mean for something to be “holy”? When Moses approached the burning bush, God spoke to him and told him to remove his sandals. Why? Because the place where he was standing was holy ground. What made the ground holy? It was God’s presence in the ground that made it holy, right? In a similar way, that we as finite beings may not fully understand, the seventh day Sabbath is imbued with the presence of God! There is a special blessing to be attained by worshipping on the day which God rested, the day He blessed and made holy. No other day can lay hold of these special claims because God never applied these characteristics to any other day.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

JUMP STATION

Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian Notice that none of the critics respond to the ten reasons
Creation Sabbath Origin For those who insist the Sabbath is only for the Jews
Spiritual vs Physical A look at how the critics want to spiritualize rest but not food or drink
The New Covenant Most critics conflate the law with being the agreement/covenant.
Works Relation to Salvation Works reveal if your faith is real

I like a lot of the points there - but remember this --
Christ does not delete all of the OT or all the writings of Moses other than the TEN.

For example in Matt 22 - the two greatest commandments are

Deut 6:5 - Love God with all your heart
Lev 19:18 - Love your neighbor as yourself.

Both of those commandments were kept on the outside of the ark - with the TEN on the inside.

The division of where they are placed was not an indicator that whatever was not inside the ark was to be deleted.

Heb 10:4-12 makes it clear that all the laws pertaining to animal sacrifice and offerings ended at the cross - and it is clear that it is not because they are not inside the ark with the TEN - but rather because they were sacrifices and offerings pointing to Christ's sacrifice - His offering "once for all time" for sin.

Icyspark · Nov 10, 2023

BobRyan said:
I like a lot of the points there - but remember this --
Christ does not delete all of the OT or all the writings of Moses other than the TEN.

For example in Matt 22 - the two greatest commandments are

Deut 6:5 - Love God with all your heart
Lev 19:18 - Love your neighbor as yourself.

Both of those commandments were kept on the outside of the ark - with the TEN on the inside.

The division of where they are placed was not an indicator that whatever was not inside the ark was to be deleted.

Heb 10:4-12 makes it clear that all the laws pertaining to animal sacrifice and offerings ended at the cross - and it is clear that it is not because they are not inside the ark with the TEN - but rather because they were sacrifices and offerings pointing to Christ's sacrifice - His offering "once for all time" for sin.

Hi BobRyan,

I get what you're saying and mostly agree with it.

I tend to believe in some form of the typical Adventist teaching that the "ceremonial" laws came to an end at the cross, although the word "ceremonial" is problematic in that it's not a term used in this context. So instead I prefer to use "statutes" or "ordinances," which are both used to identify a subdivision of God's directives for His human creatures. This seems to me to satisfy the words of Jesus when He said not one jot or one tittle will pass from the law. So in order for the sacrificial system to come to an end would it not have to be part of something where jots and tittles can be removed? Apparently so since your Hebrews 10 reference confirms that certain things did come to an end.

How would you go about explaining this concept?

God bless!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

Leaf473 · Nov 11, 2023

Icyspark said:
Hi BobRyan,

I get what you're saying and mostly agree with it.

I tend to believe in some form of the typical Adventist teaching that the "ceremonial" laws came to an end at the cross, although the word "ceremonial" is problematic in that it's not a term used in this context. So instead I prefer to use "statutes" or "ordinances," which are both used to identify a subdivision of God's directives for His human creatures. This seems to me to satisfy the words of Jesus when He said not one jot or one tittle will pass from the law. So in order for the sacrificial system to come to an end would it not have to be part of something where jots and tittles can be removed? Apparently so since your Hebrews 10 reference confirms that certain things did come to an end.

How would you go about explaining this concept?

God bless!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

Say,cy,
Along with that, what do you suppose the "these are" refers to at the end of Leviticus?

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 27:34 - New American Standard Bible

These are the commandments which the LORD commanded Moses for the sons of Israel on Mount Sinai.

www.biblegateway.com

Bob S · Nov 11, 2023

BobRyan said:
Heb 10:4-12 makes it clear that all the laws pertaining to animal sacrifice and offerings ended at the cross - and it is clear that it is not because they are not inside the ark with the TEN - but rather because they were sacrifices and offerings pointing to Christ's sacrifice - His offering "once for all time" for sin.

And Paul makes it clear that the ministry of death (ten commandments) were replaced by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. So, where does that leave us? Are we without any laws from God as how to live our lives? On the contrary, I insist that all mankind are under under Jesus command in Jn15 to love each other as Jesus loves us. Jesus gives the ultimate example, "Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends." 1jn 3 tells us we belong to the truth if we believe in Jesus and keep His commandment to love others as He taught.

Gary K · Nov 11, 2023

Bob S said:
And Paul makes it clear that the ministry of death (ten commandments) were replaced by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. So, where does that leave us? Are we without any laws from God as how to live our lives? On the contrary, I insist that all mankind are under under Jesus command in Jn15 to love each other as Jesus loves us. Jesus gives the ultimate example, "Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends." 1jn 3 tells us we belong to the truth if we believe in Jesus and keep His commandment to love others as He taught.

Paul also says other things along this line. So do you think an inspired prophet of God contradicts himself?

2Corinthians 3: 1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

So the law is now written in our hearts rather than in stone,

Bob S · Nov 12, 2023

Gary K said:
Paul also says other things along this line. So do you think an inspired prophet of God contradicts himself?

2Corinthians 3: 1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

So the law is now written in our hearts rather than in stone,

It is the Law of Love that is written on the hearts of man. Love consists of every command that deals with morality, not just nine laws. The fact is the ten didn't include the law to love our fellow man. The Sabbath law was a law that dealt with ceremony. It was not a law that dealt with how we treat God or our fellow man

Soyeong · Nov 12, 2023

Bob S said:
It is the Law of Love that is written on the hearts of man. Love consists of every command that deals with morality, not just nine laws. The fact is the ten didn't include the law to love our fellow man. The Sabbath law was a law that dealt with ceremony. It was not a law that dealt with how we treat God or our fellow man

In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarized the Law of Moses as being about how to love God and our neighbor, so it is the Law of Love, which Jeremiah 31:33 and Ezekiel 36:26-27 describe as being written on the hearts of man. Morality is in regard to what we ought to to and we ought to obey God, so all of the Law of Moses inherently deals with morality. Morality is not just in regard to our relationship with out neighbor, but also in regard to our relationship with God.

Gary K · Nov 12, 2023

Bob S said:
It is the Law of Love that is written on the hearts of man. Love consists of every command that deals with morality, not just nine laws. The fact is the ten didn't include the law to love our fellow man. The Sabbath law was a law that dealt with ceremony. It was not a law that dealt with how we treat God or our fellow man

That isn't what scripture says. It says the 10 commandments are written in our hearts,

Soyeong · Nov 13, 2023

Gary K said:
That isn't what scripture says. It says the 10 commandments are written in our hearts,

Jeremiah 31:33 uses the Hebrew word "Torah", which refers to all of the Mosaic Law, not just ten of its commandments.

Gary K · Nov 13, 2023

Soyeong said:
Jeremiah 31:33 uses the Hebrew word "Torah", which refers to all of the Mosaic Law, not just ten of its commandments.

And what were the 10 commandments written in? Stone.

Leaf473 · Nov 13, 2023

Soyeong said:
In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarized the Law of Moses as being about how to love God and our neighbor, so it is the Law of Love, which Jeremiah 31:33 and Ezekiel 36:26-27 describe as being written on the hearts of man.

That would be the entire law written on our hearts, then, not just the 10. And I think you'll agree with that, but it's different from what the OP was saying, I believe.

But in regards to the entire law teaching us how to love our neighbor, do we kill the teenage girl living next door who is into witchcraft to show our love for her?

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 22:18 - New American Standard Bible

“You shall not allow a sorceress to live.

www.biblegateway.com

Soyeong said:
Morality is in regard to what we ought to to and we ought to obey God, so all of the Law of Moses inherently deals with morality. Morality is not just in regard to our relationship with out neighbor, but also in regard to our relationship with God.

Gary K · Nov 13, 2023

Leaf473 said:
That would be the entire law written on our hearts, then, not just the 10. And I think you'll agree with that, but it's different from what the OP was saying, I believe.

But in regards to the entire law teaching us how to love our neighbor, do we kill the teenage girl living next door who is into witchcraft to show our love for her?

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 22:18 - New American Standard Bible

“You shall not allow a sorceress to live.

www.biblegateway.com

Is it loving to allow the girl next door to teach others to practice witchcraft and so destroy the lives of others?

Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian	Notice that none of the critics respond to the ten reasons
Creation Sabbath Origin	For those who insist the Sabbath is only for the Jews
Spiritual vs Physical	A look at how the critics want to spiritualize rest but not food or drink
The New Covenant	Most critics conflate the law with being the agreement/covenant.
Works Relation to Salvation	Works reveal if your faith is real

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