The Sumerian Flood Narrative

[Doveaman]

So your way to reconcile a biblical story that obviously is intended as an allegory and not a literal fact is to make stuff up.

There is no reason to consider it an allegory if there is a literal explanation. Sounds like you are the one making stuff up.

I prefer to recognize the story as an allegory so I don't have make things up that is known not to be true, like all plant and animal life being in one local area 4500 years ago.

It wasn't me who cherry-picked the verses and came up with the brilliant idea that God sent the flood to kill plants that move and have flesh and nostrils.

Talk about making stuff up.

“All flesh died that moved upon the earth…All in whose nostrils was the breath of life…” – (Gen 7:21-23).

They all could have lived in one local area before the flood. People only began to spread across the earth after the flood, and it was only because they were forced to:

"Now the whole earth had one language and one speech...So the LORD scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth..." - (Gen 11:8).

You will notice that the "whole earth" mentioned above in which everyone lived is describing one local area and not "all the earth".

So whether the flood was a "global flood" or a "local flood" the effect was still "worldwide":

“All flesh died that moved upon the earth…All in whose nostrils was the breath of life…” – (Gen 7:21-23).

 

[Split Rock]

If you are being inspired to write by an external source, then you are not by yourself.

Does that turn me into a keyboard?

Your keyboard would not type unless you gave it "inspiration". And if you were infallible there would be no errors in your typing.

I would love to see you give "inspiration" to a keyboard to make it type on its own.. just once.

Would you have preferred that He leave dead people and dead animals lying around.

I thought that is what the fossil record is supposed to represent?

Those who were present saw the evidence and left us a record.

Really? Who? Noah the drunkard?

 

[TLK Valentine]

There is no reason to consider it an allegory if there is a literal explanation.

Is there a literal explanation that doesn't involve making stuff up?

 

[RickG]

You will notice that the "whole earth" mentioned above in which everyone lived is describing one local area and not "all the earth".

So whether the flood was a "global flood" or a "local flood" the effect was still "worldwide":

I never said there wasn't a flood that affected Noah's world. All I said is that it wasn't global. But I'm sure you will still misinterpret what I am saying now.

 

[AV1611VET]

But I'm sure you will still misinterpret what I am saying now.

I'm sure what God says gets misinterpreted as well.

What goes around, comes around.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I'm sure what God says gets misinterpreted as well.

What goes around, comes around.

God hasn't said anything, so it's rather difficult to misinterpret Him.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I'm sure what God says gets misinterpreted as well.

What goes around, comes around.

One only has to visit the GT board to see that

http://www.christianforums.com/f80/
General Theology The forum for general theological discussions about issues that do not fit in any other forum, eg. Angelology

....

 

[AV1611VET]

One only has to visit the GT board to see that

http://www.christianforums.com/f80/
General Theology The forum for general theological discussions about issues that do not fit in any other forum, eg. Angelology

....

They certainly do a lot of posting up there, eh?

 

[Split Rock]

Is there a literal explanation that doesn't involve making stuff up?

LOL. You hit it right on the head... hard not to notice all the additions creationists here add to the "literal interpretation" of scripture, isn't it?

 

[AV1611VET]

LOL. You hit it right on the head... hard not to notice all the additions creationists here add to the "literal interpretation" of scripture, isn't it?

Don't ask questions that are designed to fill in the gaps, then complain because we answer questions that fill in the gaps.

Would you prefer we just shrug and say, "don't know and don't care"?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Don't ask questions that are designed to fill in the gaps, then complain because we answer questions that fill in the gaps.

Would you prefer we just shrug and say, "don't know and don't care"?

Actually, we'd prefer if you said, "We don't know, but we do care."

First of all, it would reveal an honesty which is sorely lacking in too many creationists.

Second, it would force creationists to address their own crippling insecurities and fear of the unknown.

 

[AV1611VET]

Actually, we'd prefer if you said, "We don't know, but we do care."

First of all, it would reveal an honesty which is sorely lacking in too many creationists.

Who are you to determine someone's honesty?

First of all, when someone doesn't know something, is he required to care?

Second of all, and by way of example, are you implying that Internet scientists seriously [should] care where the Flood waters went?

I have a feeling you guys don't take your own advice.

 

[Doveaman]

Is there a literal explanation that doesn't involve making stuff up?

Is there a scientific theory that doesn't involve making stuff up?

 

[Doveaman]

I never said there wasn't a flood that affected Noah's world. All I said is that it wasn't global. But I'm sure you will still misinterpret what I am saying now.

Well okay then.

My point still stands, however. The flood was "worldwide" even if not "global", since all people and animals on land died:

“All flesh died that moved upon the earth…All in whose nostrils was the breath of life…” – (Gen 7:21-23).

 

[Doveaman]

The Keyboard analogy is just wrong...

Well it’s not a perfect analogy, but it makes the perfect point: The infallible God uses people to type letters and He corrects any mistakes they make.

The Bible was inspired By God to teach truth and to correct errors:

“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction…” – (2 Tim 3:16).

Only a perfectly written book could teach truth and correct errors.

Does that turn me into a keyboard?

No, but God uses people to type letters just as you use the keyboard to type letters.

I would love to see you give "inspiration" to a keyboard to make it type on its own.. just once.

If God is inspiring you to type a letter, then you are not on your own. That’s the point.

I thought that is what the fossil record is supposed to represent?

What do you expect to find in the fossil record about the flood, human bones?

Really? Who? Noah the drunkard?

Yup.

If God can use a drunkard, then surely He can use you.

 

[Split Rock]

If God can use a drunkard, then surely He can use you.

Maybe he IS using me, and you are just not listening.....

 

[TLK Valentine]

Who are you to determine someone's honesty?

Someone who knows liars and con artists when he sees them. It's really not that difficult.

First of all, when someone doesn't know something, is he required to care?

Not at all. But if he doesn't care, it's not very honest of him to try to wield that ignorance as a weapon -- or wear it like a badge.

Second of all, and by way of example, are you implying that Internet scientists seriously [should] care where the Flood waters went?

What flood waters? The burden is first on Internet pseudoscientists to show there were flood waters in the first place.

I have a feeling you guys don't take your own advice.

I've got a feeling you've never taken anyone's.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Is there a scientific theory that doesn't involve making stuff up?

Sure -- all of them that are involved on observation and application of already gathered facts.

In other words, all of them.

 

[Doveaman]

Sure -- all of them that are involved on observation and application of already gathered facts.

In other words, all of them.

Except that all of them do not involve observed facts, and myths can also involve observed facts.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Except that all of them do not involve observed facts,

Sure they do -- they all do to some extent. The whole process of learning is to take what is already known and apply it to the unknown. How else can progress be made?

and myths can also involve observed facts.

So we'll split up the labor -- you guys stick with the myths, and we'll do the science.