The strongest argument for the existence of God

[Clizby WampusCat]

From 9/11, we are supposed to learn what real Islam is like;

So then from the 1 million people (low estimate) that were slain during the Christian crusades from 1095-1291 we can learn what Christianity is like.

from Covid-19, we are supposed to learn not to mock Leviticus 11:19.

the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat. Lev 11:19 NIV

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I find it amusing how you treat the gods of religions like they are real. Instead, they are just some guys writing in a basement. I guess you just want to replace some old guys writing in a basement with some new guys writing in a basement. Just don't call it religion.

Oh I see you just want to spout nonsense and not respond to anything I said in regards to your ideas. Ok, I guess this nasty atheist is not worth a conversation.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Listen up, atheists. Please try to just stick with atheism and do not have an opinion on equality or climate change or gun violence or pie vs cake.

Got it. And who has the secret atheist agenda, I did not get my update this week.

 

[AV1611VET]

So then from the 1 million people (low estimate) that were slain during the Christian crusades from 1095-1291 we can learn what Christianity is like.

No. The Crusades were done in spite of the Bible, not with respect to It.

Since AD 70, Israel is currently in its "times of the Gentiles."

This will last until Jesus returns and liberates her.

To try and liberate Israel before that is akin to the Israelites wanting to go into their Promised Land after God told them they would die in the wilderness.

Numbers 14:36 And the men, which Moses sent to search the land, who returned, and made all the congregation to murmur against him, by bringing up a slander upon the land,
37 Even those men that did bring up the evil report upon the land, died by the plague before the LORD.
38 But Joshua the son of Nun, and Caleb the son of Jephunneh, which were of the men that went to search the land, lived still.
39 And Moses told these sayings unto all the children of Israel: and the people mourned greatly.
40 And they rose up early in the morning, and gat them up into the top of the mountain, saying, Lo, we be here, and will go up unto the place which the LORD hath promised: for we have sinned.
41 And Moses said, Wherefore now do ye transgress the commandment of the LORD? but it shall not prosper.
42 Go not up, for the LORD is not among you; that ye be not smitten before your enemies.
43 For the Amalekites and the Canaanites are there before you, and ye shall fall by the sword: because ye are turned away from the LORD, therefore the LORD will not be with you.
44 But they presumed to go up unto the hill top: nevertheless the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and Moses, departed not out of the camp.
45 Then the Amalekites came down, and the Canaanites which dwelt in that hill, and smote them, and discomfited them, even unto Hormah.

the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat. Lev 11:19 NIV

God: The following fowl are off-limits to human consumption: [fowls listed, with the bat appended to the list].
Larry: Can you believe God thinks bats are fowls!?
Curly: Just another mistake in the Bible.
Moe: Mmmm ... pass the barbecue sauce!

 

[TLK Valentine]

I take it you've never seen Linnaeans tell us that God doesn't know bats aren't birds?

I don't see the relevance...

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't see the relevance...

I'm not surprised.

 

[TLK Valentine]

No. The Crusades were done in spite of the Bible, not with respect to It.

Then the Bible isn't nearly as much of an influence on Christianity as it probably should be.

What is?

 

[AV1611VET]

Then the Bible isn't nearly as much of an influence on Christianity as it probably should be.

Why do you say that?

Those who were being Christ-like would not have participated in the Crusades.

Do you think Paul would have?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

No. The Crusades were done in spite of the Bible, not with respect to It.

Muslims say the same thing about 911. The crusades were justified using the bible just as 911 was justified by Islamic religious writings.

 

[AV1611VET]

Muslims say the same thing about 911.

Yes. If I was a Muslim, and I believed the Koran, I would have supported 9/11.

Islam is a convert-or-die religion, and the United States is considered "the Great Satan."

Ditto for Shoko Asahara, who worshipped Shiva, the god of destruction.

The crusades were justified using the bible just as 911 was justified by Islamic religious writings.

I'm aware of that.

And I'm also aware that that is the standard college interpretation.

But in reality, it was done contrary to the Bible's teachings; not with respect to It.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Why do you say that?

Those who were being Christ-like would not have participated in the Crusades.

Do you think Paul would have?

Who knows? Paul lived over a thousand years before the Crusades. It'shard to tell how he might have reacted in a very different situation.

What does seem clear is that you are telling us that the crusaders were not real Scotsmen, because it they were, they wouldn't have done what they did.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

If only atheists would stick to atheism, this wouldn't be necessary.

Generally, on these forums, they do. Because the purpose of these forums is to discuss the merits of Christian arguments in favour of God. Therefore, having a strategy to defeat atheists that consists of arguing against equality is simply missing the point. Because if we conceded all of your arguments the issue of atheism would still exist in exactly the same way.

It is, in fact, entirely possible for a person to be both an atheist and against equality.

 

[AV1611VET]

What does seem clear is that you are telling us that the crusaders were not real Scotsmen, because it they were, they wouldn't have done what they did.

That is absolutely correct. The Crusaders were not acting in accordance with Biblical principles, despite what they teach you in college.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

That is absolutely correct. The Crusaders were not acting in accordance with Biblical principles, despite what they teach you in college.

No True Scotsman fallacy.

 

[TLK Valentine]

When it comes to the existence of "God," I think 1 John 4:16 is the best and simplest answer:LOVE

"And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him."

If this is so, then God is not some bearded guy in a white robe sitting on a throne somewhere; He -- It -- is a real but abstract force permeating all life on Earth (and beyond, if aliens are a real thing). "God" is not a person or a thing, but an experience that can only be understood through proper (loving) life.

Love never starts or ends with ourselves; we can't give love to another until we've felt it from another. But at the same time, love cannot exist in a vacuum, it cannot exist without life, and it cannot continue without being shared -- You can't store it away or save it; use it or lose it.

Maybe Shakespeare had it right:

My bounty is as boundless as the sea,
My love as deep. The more I give to thee,
The more I have, for both are infinite.
(Romeo and Juliet, II.ii)

Or perhaps it was John and Paul (not the Apostles; the Beatles) who got it right:

And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make...
("The End," Lennon/McCarthy)

 

[Matt5]

So then from the 1 million people (low estimate) that were slain during the Christian crusades from 1095-1291 we can learn what Christianity is like.


the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat. Lev 11:19 NIV

What are we supposed to learn from 911 or Covid-19?

Under the rules of equality, Islam is no better or worse than Christianity.

See the dynamic battle map comparing Jihad against the Crusades. Jihad was offense. The Crusades were defensive.

Bill Warner, PhD: Jihad vs Crusades

What are we suppose to learn from 9/11 or COVID-19?

9/11: PC is bad news. Listen to experts warning about threats. Do not assume you are invulnerable.

COVID-19: Globalization facilitates contagion. Shut down trade with China.

 

[AV1611VET]

No True Scotsman fallacy.

You think what you want.

As I said, it's called the "times of the Gentiles."

Something even TLK probably doesn't teach his class, and he is an English professor who teaches the King James Bible to his students, albeit as "great literature," and nothing more.

 

[Matt5]

Oh I see you just want to spout nonsense and not respond to anything I said in regards to your ideas. Ok, I guess this nasty atheist is not worth a conversation.

Sorry, I ran into a keyboard problem and bailed out early. I will get back to you shortly on those answers.

 

[AV1611VET]

When it comes to the existence of "God," I think 1 John 4:16 is the best and simplest answer: LOVE

Apply that to the Crusaders and tell me if, in your opinion, they were being true to 1 John 4:16.

 

[AV1611VET]

Or perhaps it was John and Paul (not the Apostles; the Beatles) who got it right:

And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make...
("The End," Lennon/McCarthy)

Did they sing that while supporting the IRA?