The strongest argument for the existence of God

[TLK Valentine]

Is there a BOLO for Him or something?

As a Christian, shouldn't you be leading the search party?

 

[TLK Valentine]

These are mostly not sources about Jesus, but about Christianity and Christians. They tell us very little about Jesus himself.

Indeed -- the idea that a historical figure commonly known as "Jesus of Nazareth" existed is hardly up for debate... the question is exactly who this person was and what he actually did...

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Yes.

Ok, then:

The earth is filled with cause-and-effect evidence of God:

1. Time divided into BC and AD.
2. Organizations such as the Red Cross and Salvation Army.
3. Hospitals built by Christian organizations.
4. Beautiful Christian artwork, edifices, statuary and literature.
5. IN GOD WE TRUST on our coins and UNDER GOD in our pledge of allegiance.
6. The Ten Commandments and other literature displayed in public.
7. Christmas & Easter
8. Symbols on bumper stickers and flags.
9. Public debates in the name of Christianity.
10. Crosses and billboards erected to testify of Jesus Christ.

So by this logic:
1. The Hijiri calendar then is good evidence that Allah is the true God
2. Islamic relief organizations are evidence that Allah is the true God.
3. The Islamic Hospital non profit in Tripoli is good evidence that Allah is the true God.
4. Islamic art is good evidence that Allah is the true God.
5. Islamic religious figures and the Muslim pledge of allegiance is good evidence that Allah is the true god.
6. Muslim religious literature displayed in public is good evidence that Allah is the true God.
7. Ashura and Hajj are good evidence that Allah is the true God.
8. Islamic bumpers stickers and flags are good evidence that Allah is the true God.
9. Public debates in the name of Islam are good evidence that Allah is the true God.
10. Billboards erected to testify of Allah is good evidence that Allah is the true God.

See, the same evidence that can be used for the existence of multiple Gods cannot be good evidence for the existence of one particular god.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Indeed -- the idea that a historical figure commonly known as "Jesus of Nazareth" existed is hardly up for debate... the question is exactly who this person was and what he actually did...

Wait till they find out there was a Peter Parker in New York!

 

[TLK Valentine]

Wait till they find out there was a Peter Parker in New York!

With a population of 8.4 million, chances are one of them is a "Peter Parker."
But it seems unlikely that he is the "Peter Parker."

 

[Matt5]

What do you mean by the religion of equality and why is it bad?

Equality has been elevated to the status of religion because it cannot be questioned. The ideas surrounding equality are given and cannot be questioned.

What is equality?

Equality mean equal. It doesn't mean not equal. This is hard for the equality people to understand. And equal means equal stuff for everybody.

Equality => Equality within a country (equal stuff for all), and equality between countries (immigration, globalization and climate change wealth redistribution).

Why is equality bad?

What follows is part of an article I wrote several months ago.

Turning the world upside-down

The ideas of equality turn the world upside-down and lead to the following idea: Good is bad and bad is good.

If we're all equal then why do some people rise above the rest, like the rich? How did they get more stuff? Well, they cheated in some way. They had an unfair advantage. They got (undeserved) luck. And what about those people who fell behind? How could they fall behind if we're all equal? They have been victimized in some way by society or the rich.

In order to solve the problems, the rich must be punished (taxed) and the poor rewarded (free stuff.) In effect, we know this as punishing success and rewarding failure. Good ideas get punished and bad ones get rewarded. Good is bad and bad is good.

Looking through the lens of equality, success and failure are merely unfair conditions, not the result of better or worse behavior. One person's behavior is not better or worse than another person's behavior. It's all outside forces acting on them. Equality means fixing those unfair conditions caused by outside forces. The fixing is done by force.

Catastrophic idea: People are basically good.

In the show Breaking Bad, high school chemistry teacher Walter White is propelled into the drug underworld by an outside force, cancer. Walter is actually a good guy. He doesn't want to do bad. It's just that cancer thing. The show promotes the idea that bad is really good.

In the animation Moana (also known as Vaiana or Oceania, in some markets), Moana must return the heart of Te Fiti which is a stone, because it had been stolen. In order to return the stone she must fight Te Ka, a volcanic demon who also seeks the stone. Moana eventually figures out that the evil Te Ka is really Te Fiti. She gives the stone to Te Ka and the demon transforms into the lovely Te Fiti: Bad is really good.
You and your children are getting brainwashed daily, and you probably don't even know it. I get it. The movies are indeed entertaining. I like them too. I always explain to my kids how they are being brainwashed.

If everybody is equal, and most people act good, then everybody must be basically good. Barack Obama said he believed that people are basically good. Look at what Anne Frank wrote ( Saturday, 15th July 1944 ):

"It's really a wonder that I haven't dropped all my ideals, because they seem so absurd and impossible to carry out. Yet I keep them, because in spite of everything I still believe that people are really good at heart."

Is that true? Are people basically good?

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Jesus didn't think he was good. And if Jesus isn't good then nobody is good. Or people are basically just bad. Now we have the ideas of equality turning bad into good. But as Anne Frank found out, thinking people are good means you cannot respond properly when they are not good. Failure to respond can mean death in some situations.

How does the idea that people are good play out in the nuclear age?

If people are good, then no one is ever going to be launching nuclear tipping missiles on the US unless the US provokes them. So the real problem is one of accidents. In order to reduce the risk of accident or miscalculation the US needs to reduce or eliminate its nuclear arsenal. The US needs to disarm itself in order to be safer. This is the strategy that is currently playing out in the US.

If people are bad, then wouldn't reducing the nuclear arsenal increase the risk of a planned Pearl Harbor style nuclear attack? Why yes it would. If you were depending on MAD or the nuclear winter to prevent a nuclear attack, then perhaps think again. There is no MAD thanks to all those nuclear reductions, and the fact that Russia has enough underground bunkers to protect over 25% of its population. Also, the idea of nuclear winter is not credible based on volcano studies. There will be a winner in nuclear war. And the next war after that will not be fought with sticks and stones, contrary to Einstein's opinion.

The religion of equality has put you to sleep. You think everything is fine when it is not. You, my friend, are in bigger trouble than you think.

Bad idea: Men and women are equal

Men and women are equal like stones are equal. They're not. Some stones can do a better job in certain roles. Women having kids is one role that men can't play. If women won't do it then there are going to be problems.

Under the ideas of equality, women are elevating themselves up and demanding men who are at their self-perceived level or higher. On Tinder, we see that about 80% of the women are going after 20% of the men. Most women just don't find most men attractive. Increasingly, that means men and women can't come together or stay together for long-term relationships. Plus, women are spending so much time on education and getting their careers going there is little time for children. And that means fewer and fewer kids, even below replacement level. That's a sign that something is wrong with society.

Wealth does not flow equally

The mathematical law that shows why wealth flows to the 1% | The Guardian

Wealth follows the power law which gives us its natural distribution: 20% of the people will own 80% of the wealth. The only way to achieve equality of wealth is by force. And force is what the West will increasingly get.

Competence and better behavior have allowed people to rise in free societies. In a society dominated by equality, loyalty is more important than competence. Loyalty is more important because of the amount of force required for wealth redistribution. Business leaders need to be onboard with the government's program. This is particularly relevant in large companies. As Venezuela found out in its oil industry, when loyalty trumps competence then things start breaking.

Conclusion

Christianity unleashed forces that propelled countries upward. Better behavior leads to better outcomes which lifts countries high above the rest. If I can count on you (and the government) not to steal my stuff, then I'll risk everything to build that factory and make everyone better. There is nothing equal about better, and Christianity is all about better.

As people increasingly leave Christianity in the West, they are heading toward witchcraft, the occult, Islam and the religion of equality. It is the rise of the religion of equality that threatens everything the most. It is likely that the West will come crashing down because of this. And I suspect God will make it happen.

 

[TLK Valentine]

As people increasingly leave Christianity in the West, they are heading toward witchcraft, the occult, Islam and the religion of equality. It is the rise of the religion of equality that threatens everything the most. It is likely that the West will come crashing down because of this. And I suspect God will make it happen.

Well, if God makes it happen, then there's nothing anyone can do about it.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Equality has been elevated to the status of religion because it cannot be questioned. The ideas surrounding equality are given and cannot be questioned.

Why cannot they be questioned?

What is equality?

Equality mean equal. It doesn't mean not equal. This is hard for the equality people to understand. And equal means equal stuff for everybody.

Well that is not what a lot of us atheists think. To me it means equal opportunity for everyone. Not equal outcomes.

Catastrophic idea: People are basically good.

I agree. People are neither good or bad, people do good and bad actions.

In the show Breaking Bad, high school chemistry teacher Walter White is propelled into the drug underworld by an outside force, cancer. Walter is actually a good guy. He doesn't want to do bad. It's just that cancer thing. The show promotes the idea that bad is really good.

Have you seen the entire series? He becomes the bad guy.

In the animation Moana (also known as Vaiana or Oceania, in some markets), Moana must return the heart of Te Fiti which is a stone, because it had been stolen. In order to return the stone she must fight Te Ka, a volcanic demon who also seeks the stone. Moana eventually figures out that the evil Te Ka is really Te Fiti. She gives the stone to Te Ka and the demon transforms into the lovely Te Fiti: Bad is really good.

So what? I can name many movies where bad is punished and good is rewarded.

You and your children are getting brainwashed daily, and you probably don't even know it. I get it. The movies are indeed entertaining. I like them too. I always explain to my kids how they are being brainwashed.

I teach my kids what is right and wrong I don't let movies do that. Do you really think kids get the Moana reference you made above? No.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Jesus didn't think he was good. And if Jesus isn't good then nobody is good. Or people are basically just bad. Now we have the ideas of equality turning bad into good. But as Anne Frank found out, thinking people are good means you cannot respond properly when they are not good. Failure to respond can mean death in some situations.

I don't care what Jesus said until you can demonstrate he said them and that they are relevant.

How does the idea that people are good play out in the nuclear age?

If people are good, then no one is ever going to be launching nuclear tipping missiles on the US unless the US provokes them. So the real problem is one of accidents. In order to reduce the risk of accident or miscalculation the US needs to reduce or eliminate its nuclear arsenal. The US needs to disarm itself in order to be safer. This is the strategy that is currently playing out in the US.

That is not happening. We have reduced our nuclear weapons but maintain 4000 of them. More than enough to destroy everyone on the planet.

Bad idea: Men and women are equal

Men and women are equal like stones are equal. They're not. Some stones can do a better job in certain roles. Women having kids is one role that men can't play. If women won't do it then there are going to be problems.

Under the ideas of equality, women are elevating themselves up and demanding men who are at their self-perceived level or higher. On Tinder, we see that about 80% of the women are going after 20% of the men. Most women just don't find most men attractive. Increasingly, that means men and women can't come together or stay together for long-term relationships. Plus, women are spending so much time on education and getting their careers going there is little time for children. And that means fewer and fewer kids, even below replacement level. That's a sign that something is wrong with society.

Women can do whatever they want with their lives. You or I don't get to say what they are doing is right or wrong. That is true freedom and equality. Women's purpose is not to provide babies. They have that choice if they want to or not. This kind of shaming them because they want a career instead of a child is immoral.

Wealth does not flow equally

The mathematical law that shows why wealth flows to the 1% | The Guardian

Wealth follows the power law which gives us its natural distribution: 20% of the people will own 80% of the wealth. The only way to achieve equality of wealth is by force. And force is what the West will increasingly get.

Competence and better behavior have allowed people to rise in free societies. In a society dominated by equality, loyalty is more important than competence. Loyalty is more important because of the amount of force required for wealth redistribution. Business leaders need to be onboard with the government's program. This is particularly relevant in large companies. As Venezuela found out in its oil industry, when loyalty trumps competence then things start breaking.

Then why are the wealthy getting richer and the poor getting poorer?

Christianity unleashed forces that propelled countries upward. Better behavior leads to better outcomes which lifts countries high above the rest. If I can count on you (and the government) not to steal my stuff, then I'll risk everything to build that factory and make everyone better. There is nothing equal about better, and Christianity is all about better.

As people increasingly leave Christianity in the West, they are heading toward witchcraft, the occult, Islam and the religion of equality. It is the rise of the religion of equality that threatens everything the most. It is likely that the West will come crashing down because of this. And I suspect God will make it happen.

Well if God will make it happen then stop blaming everyone else and start blaming your God. I don't have a religion of equality, what you have stated above is a dangerous strawman that will breed division and violence. But hey, I guess your God is the architect of it so now I can blame your God for all the bad in our society.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Well if God will make it happen then stop blaming everyone else and start blaming your God. I don't have a religion of equality, what you have stated above is a dangerous strawman that will breed division and violence. But hey, I guess your God is the architect of it so now I can blame your God for all the bad in our society.

You'd kind of have to. Isaiah 45:7, don't you know.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Equality has been elevated to the status of religion because it cannot be questioned. The ideas surrounding equality are given and cannot be questioned.

What is equality?

Equality mean equal. It doesn't mean not equal. This is hard for the equality people to understand. And equal means equal stuff for everybody.

Equality => Equality within a country (equal stuff for all), and equality between countries (immigration, globalization and climate change wealth redistribution).

Why is equality bad?

What follows is part of an article I wrote several months ago.

Turning the world upside-down

The ideas of equality turn the world upside-down and lead to the following idea: Good is bad and bad is good.

If we're all equal then why do some people rise above the rest, like the rich? How did they get more stuff? Well, they cheated in some way. They had an unfair advantage. They got (undeserved) luck. And what about those people who fell behind? How could they fall behind if we're all equal? They have been victimized in some way by society or the rich.

In order to solve the problems, the rich must be punished (taxed) and the poor rewarded (free stuff.) In effect, we know this as punishing success and rewarding failure. Good ideas get punished and bad ones get rewarded. Good is bad and bad is good.

Looking through the lens of equality, success and failure are merely unfair conditions, not the result of better or worse behavior. One person's behavior is not better or worse than another person's behavior. It's all outside forces acting on them. Equality means fixing those unfair conditions caused by outside forces. The fixing is done by force.

Catastrophic idea: People are basically good.

In the show Breaking Bad, high school chemistry teacher Walter White is propelled into the drug underworld by an outside force, cancer. Walter is actually a good guy. He doesn't want to do bad. It's just that cancer thing. The show promotes the idea that bad is really good.

In the animation Moana (also known as Vaiana or Oceania, in some markets), Moana must return the heart of Te Fiti which is a stone, because it had been stolen. In order to return the stone she must fight Te Ka, a volcanic demon who also seeks the stone. Moana eventually figures out that the evil Te Ka is really Te Fiti. She gives the stone to Te Ka and the demon transforms into the lovely Te Fiti: Bad is really good.
You and your children are getting brainwashed daily, and you probably don't even know it. I get it. The movies are indeed entertaining. I like them too. I always explain to my kids how they are being brainwashed.

If everybody is equal, and most people act good, then everybody must be basically good. Barack Obama said he believed that people are basically good. Look at what Anne Frank wrote ( Saturday, 15th July 1944 ):

"It's really a wonder that I haven't dropped all my ideals, because they seem so absurd and impossible to carry out. Yet I keep them, because in spite of everything I still believe that people are really good at heart."

Is that true? Are people basically good?

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Jesus didn't think he was good. And if Jesus isn't good then nobody is good. Or people are basically just bad. Now we have the ideas of equality turning bad into good. But as Anne Frank found out, thinking people are good means you cannot respond properly when they are not good. Failure to respond can mean death in some situations.

How does the idea that people are good play out in the nuclear age?

If people are good, then no one is ever going to be launching nuclear tipping missiles on the US unless the US provokes them. So the real problem is one of accidents. In order to reduce the risk of accident or miscalculation the US needs to reduce or eliminate its nuclear arsenal. The US needs to disarm itself in order to be safer. This is the strategy that is currently playing out in the US.

If people are bad, then wouldn't reducing the nuclear arsenal increase the risk of a planned Pearl Harbor style nuclear attack? Why yes it would. If you were depending on MAD or the nuclear winter to prevent a nuclear attack, then perhaps think again. There is no MAD thanks to all those nuclear reductions, and the fact that Russia has enough underground bunkers to protect over 25% of its population. Also, the idea of nuclear winter is not credible based on volcano studies. There will be a winner in nuclear war. And the next war after that will not be fought with sticks and stones, contrary to Einstein's opinion.

The religion of equality has put you to sleep. You think everything is fine when it is not. You, my friend, are in bigger trouble than you think.

Bad idea: Men and women are equal

Men and women are equal like stones are equal. They're not. Some stones can do a better job in certain roles. Women having kids is one role that men can't play. If women won't do it then there are going to be problems.

Under the ideas of equality, women are elevating themselves up and demanding men who are at their self-perceived level or higher. On Tinder, we see that about 80% of the women are going after 20% of the men. Most women just don't find most men attractive. Increasingly, that means men and women can't come together or stay together for long-term relationships. Plus, women are spending so much time on education and getting their careers going there is little time for children. And that means fewer and fewer kids, even below replacement level. That's a sign that something is wrong with society.

Wealth does not flow equally

The mathematical law that shows why wealth flows to the 1% | The Guardian

Wealth follows the power law which gives us its natural distribution: 20% of the people will own 80% of the wealth. The only way to achieve equality of wealth is by force. And force is what the West will increasingly get.

Competence and better behavior have allowed people to rise in free societies. In a society dominated by equality, loyalty is more important than competence. Loyalty is more important because of the amount of force required for wealth redistribution. Business leaders need to be onboard with the government's program. This is particularly relevant in large companies. As Venezuela found out in its oil industry, when loyalty trumps competence then things start breaking.

Conclusion

Christianity unleashed forces that propelled countries upward. Better behavior leads to better outcomes which lifts countries high above the rest. If I can count on you (and the government) not to steal my stuff, then I'll risk everything to build that factory and make everyone better. There is nothing equal about better, and Christianity is all about better.

As people increasingly leave Christianity in the West, they are heading toward witchcraft, the occult, Islam and the religion of equality. It is the rise of the religion of equality that threatens everything the most. It is likely that the West will come crashing down because of this. And I suspect God will make it happen.

And this is your idea of arguing against atheists and beating them at their own game?
This doesn't have anything to do with atheism.

 

[Matt5]

Well, if God makes it happen, then there's nothing anyone can do about it.

When bad things happen to you it is time for some introspection. The wake up call was 9/11. We didn't listen. COVID-19 is another reminder. We are still not listening.

What can you do?

Buy a barbecue and a bottle of your favorite alcoholic beverage. Might as well be comfortable when the SHTF.

 

[Matt5]

And this is your idea of arguing against atheists and beating them at their own game?
This doesn't have anything to do with atheism.

If only atheists would stick to atheism, this wouldn't be necessary.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

When bad things happen to you it is time for some introspection. The wake up call was 9/11. We didn't listen. COVID-19 is another reminder. We are still not listening.

What are we supposed to learn from 911 or Covid-19?

 

[TLK Valentine]

When bad things happen to you it is time for some introspection. The wake up call was 9/11. We didn't listen. COVID-19 is another reminder. We are still not listening.

That would suggest that when bad things happen, that we are always somehow responsible -- we have displeased God, and had best figure out what we did to tick Him off and get right with Him.

The entire theme of the book of Job was to shoot down that theory... and Jesus certainly didn't preach that message -- certainly not in Matthew 5:45 and John 9:2-3, for example.

What can you do?

Buy a barbecue and a bottle of your favorite alcoholic beverage. Might as well be comfortable when the SHTF.

I'd rather save the BBQ and booze for when things are going well -- when the excrement collides with the air conditioner, I'm going to be too busy trying to fix things as best I can.

 

[TLK Valentine]

If only atheists would stick to atheism, this wouldn't be necessary.

And if only the blacks had stuck to the back of the bus, the Civil Rights Movement wouldn't have been necessary.

People don't always stay in their place -- especially not the place others try to put them in.

 

[AV1611VET]

What are we supposed to learn from 911 or Covid-19?

From 9/11, we are supposed to learn what real Islam is like; from Covid-19, we are supposed to learn not to mock Leviticus 11:19.

 

[TLK Valentine]

From 9/11, we are supposed to learn what real Islam is like; from Covid-19, we are supposed to learn not to mock Leviticus 11:19.

"And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat."

I'm going to assume this is a typo and you meant Leviticus 11:1-9...

 

[AV1611VET]

"And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat."

I'm going to assume this is a typo and you meant Leviticus 11:1-9...

I take it you've never seen Linnaeans tell us that God doesn't know bats aren't birds?

 

[Gene Parmesan]

If only atheists would stick to atheism, this wouldn't be necessary.

Listen up, atheists. Please try to just stick with atheism and do not have an opinion on equality or climate change or gun violence or pie vs cake.

 

[Matt5]

Why cannot they be questioned?

Well that is not what a lot of us atheists think. To me it means equal opportunity for everyone. Not equal outcomes.


I agree. People are neither good or bad, people do good and bad actions.

Have you seen the entire series? He becomes the bad guy.

So what? I can name many movies where bad is punished and good is rewarded.

I teach my kids what is right and wrong I don't let movies do that. Do you really think kids get the Moana reference you made above? No.

I don't care what Jesus said until you can demonstrate he said them and that they are relevant.

That is not happening. We have reduced our nuclear weapons but maintain 4000 of them. More than enough to destroy everyone on the planet.
Women can do whatever they want with their lives. You or I don't get to say what they are doing is right or wrong. That is true freedom and equality. Women's purpose is not to provide babies. They have that choice if they want to or not. This kind of shaming them because they want a career instead of a child is immoral.
Then why are the wealthy getting richer and the poor getting poorer?

Well if God will make it happen then stop blaming everyone else and start blaming your God. I don't have a religion of equality, what you have stated above is a dangerous strawman that will breed division and violence. But hey, I guess your God is the architect of it so now I can blame your God for all the bad in our society.

I find it amusing how you treat the gods of religions like they are real. Instead, they are just some guys writing in a basement. I guess you just want to replace some old guys writing in a basement with some new guys writing in a basement. Just don't call it religion.