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The snare of devotion to Mary.

Albion

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Albion, Jesus would not be 'the Christ' if He was upset with us asking His Mother to pray for us.
That's a nice thought, but "asking His Mother" isn't what we're talking about. It's the excessive, controversial, devotions that are the focus.
 
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Albion

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Albion , nobody can stop anybody from being overzealous.

That's correct. The issue is only whether or not it is possible to BE overzealous.

Some posters seem to excuse even the most questionable practices.

Some of the rest of us have said 'yes,' that honoring Mary is fine; but that it's also the case that some people accord her the powers, authority, and attention that properly belong to God alone--and to make it worse, it's done with the approval of their church.
 
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concretecamper

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Of course, if you consider the other side's rebuttal of your points "propaganda" and a "trick" there is already no discussion (clearly indicated it seems to me in the tone of your responses to me).

In which case, there is nothing I can say which can pierce a bias, and it is better not to proceed.

isn't funny that those who want tolerance shown to them are they most intolerant to others. You should not look at your post as changing bias in some.....that most likely never will happen...but then again miracles can happen.

There are plenty who read through these threads looking for different POV in search of the truth. Post for these people.
 
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Rhamiel

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That's correct. The issue is only whether or not it is possible to BE overzealous.

Some posters seem to excuse even the most questionable practices.

Some of the rest of us have said 'yes,' that honoring Mary is fine; but that it's also the case that some people accord her the powers, authority, and attention that properly belong to God alone--and to make it worse, it's done with the approval of their church.

what does the Anglican Church say about the Saints
does the Anglican Church believe that the Saints in heaven can hear our prayers?
 
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Galilee63

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Mark,

Pope John Paul II approved Jesus' Divine Mercy and Divine Mercy Holy messages.

Here are some of Pope John Paul II's words on Jesus, Saint Sister Faustina and Jesus' Divine Mercy (Jesus is our 'unfathomable Divine Mercy Himself).

The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God appeared to Saint Faustina with Jesus Christ our Saviour including our Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God's Holy messages in relation to Jesus' Divine Mercy and appearing here on Earth soon;

I am happy to provide more of Popes in history having approved Jesus and The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God's apparitions and Holy Words Mark.

“I considered this message my special task. Providence has assigned it to me in the present situation of man, the Church, and the world” (Bl. Pope John Paul II November 22, 1981)

The knowledge of St. Faustina and the revelations bestowed on her coming from Jesus became known to Pope John Paul II early in 1940. It was at the time when he was studying for the priesthood secretly, in a seminary in Krakow.

The first he heard of these revelations was from another seminarian Andrew Deskur who later became a Cardinal also. Andrew told him about Saint Faustina Kowalska and the message of Divine Mercy she claimed she had received from the Lord.

It was during the time that she received the messages from Our Lord, that Karol Wojtyla was forcibly working under the Nazi occupation forces in the factory, which was in view of the convent and can still be seen today from the convent cemetery where St. Faustina was first buried.

Karol Wojtyla visited the convent frequently, first as a priest and then as a bishop. He went there often to pray and in later years gave retreats there as well. It was Karol Wojtyla, as Archbishop of Krakow, who after St. Faustina’s death, was the first to consider bringing St. Faustina’s name before the Congregation for the Causes of Saints for consideration as a figure worthy of being put forward for beatification.

During the Second Vatican Council, he approached Cardinal Ottaviani about the desire of the faithful in Poland to have Saint Faustina raised to the honours of the altar. Cardinal Ottaviani told him the first step to take was to get together the testimonies of all those who knew her, while they were still alive.

Archbishop Karol Wojtyla delegated his auxiliary bishop, Julian Groblicki, to gather the information in order to begin the Informative Process of the life and virtues of Saint Faustina. In September 1967 the process was completed, and in January 1968, the Process of Beatification was inaugurated. Because of the positive outcome of the informative Process, inquiries from many places, especially from Poland and, in particular, from Archbishop Wojtyla, were sent to the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. They asked whether the prohibitions of the 1959 Notification were still in effect. In response to these inquiries, the Sacred Congregation issued a new "Notification" dated April 15, 1978, which stated, “This Sacred Congregation, having now in possession the many original documents, unknown in 1959 and having taken into consideration the profoundly changed circumstances and having taken into account the opinion of many Polish Ordinaries, it now declares no longer binding the prohibitions contained in the quoted "Notification".

On the first Sunday of Advent, November 30, 1980, Pope John Paul II published his second encyclical letter “Dives in Misericordia” (Rich in Mercy) , in which he describes the mercy of God as the presence of a love which is greater than any evil, greater than any sin and greater than death. In this encyclical he calls on the Church to devote itself to pleading for God's mercy for the whole world.

The publishing of this second encyclical was probably the most important event in the life of the Holy Father and in his relationship to St.Faustina and the message of Divine Mercy.

It was as Archbishop of Krakow, that Karol Wojtyla defended Saint Faustina when her credibility and the message of Divine Mercy was questioned in Rome. This came about due to a faulty translation in Italian of her diary, which was sent to the Congregation for the Protection of the Faith.

Pope John Paul II, who said that he felt spiritually "very near to Saint Faustina and had been thinking about her and the message of Divine Mercy when he began ‘Dives in Misericordia’. On November 22, 1981, Pope John Paul II made his first public visit outside of Rome following a lengthy recuperation. On the Feast of Christ the King, he travelled to the Shrine of Merciful Love in Collevalenza, near Todi, Italy. There, within a few days, an international congress was held to reflect on the encyclical ‘Dives in Misericordia’.

After celebrating the Holy Sacrifice of the Eucharist, he made a strong public declaration about the importance of the message of mercy.He said, “A year ago I published the encyclical ‘Dives in Misericordi’. This made me come to the Sanctuary of Merciful Love today. By my presence I wish to reconfirm, in a way, the message of that encyclical. I wish to read it again and deliver it again. Right from the beginning of my ministry in St. Peter's See in Rome, I considered this message my special task. Providence has assigned it to me in the present situation of man, the Church, and the world. It could be said that precisely this situation assigned that message to me as my task before God”. (Extract from the homily by Pope John Paul II at The Shrine of Merciful Love in Collevalenza, Italy, November 22, 1981)

On Mercy Sunday, April 10, 1991, two years prior to the beatification of Saint Faustina, Pope John Paul II spoke about Saint Faustina, relating her to his encyclical and emphasising her role in bringing the message of mercy to the world, “The words of the encyclical on Divine Mercy (Dives in Misericordia) are particularly close to us. They recall the figure of the Servant of God, Saint Faustina Kowalska. This simple woman religious particularly brought the Easter message of the merciful Christ closer to the whole world”.

On Mercy Sunday, April 18, 1993, Saint Faustina was beatified by Pope John Paul II in St. Peter's Square. He began his homily with a quotation from her diary: "I clearly feel that my mission does not end with death, but begins”. Her mission continues and is yielding astonishing fruit. It is truly marvellous how her devotion to the merciful Jesus is spreading in our contemporary world and gaining so many human hearts!

"Where, if not in the Divine Mercy, can the world find refuge and the light of hope?" is an expression of the theme of Pope John Paul II's pontificate. In his ‘Regina Caeli’ talk of April 23, 1995, immediately after he had concluded celebrating Divine Mercy Sunday at the Holy Spirit Church, Pope John Paul II exhorted us to personally experience God's mercy, “In a special way, today is the Sunday of thanksgiving for the goodness God has shown man in the whole Easter mystery”.

This is why it is also called the Sunday of Divine Mercy. Essentially, God's mercy, as the mystical experience of Saint Faustina Kowalska, who was raised to the honour of the altar in 2000, helps us to understand, reveals precisely this truth: good triumphs over evil, life is stronger than death and God's love is more powerful than sin.

All this is manifested in Christ's paschal mystery, in which God appears to us as he is, a tender-hearted Father, who does not give up in the face of his children's ingratitude and is always ready to forgive.

We must personally experience this mercy if, in turn, we want to be capable of mercy. Let us learn to forgive! The spiral of hatred and violence which stains with blood the path of so many individuals and nations can only be broken by the miracle of forgiveness. When Pope John Paul II made a pilgrimage to the Shrine of Divine Mercy in Lagiewniki, Poland, on June 7, 1997, he addressed the Sisters of the Congregation of Our Lady of Mercy in a very personal way, reflecting on Divine Mercy and giving an amazing personal witness to the influence of Saint Faustina and her message, “I have come here to this Shrine as a pilgrim to take part in the unending hymn in honour of Divine Mercy. The psalmist of the Lord had intoned it, expressing what every generation preserved and will continue to preserve as a most precious fruit of faith.

There is nothing that man needs more than Divine Mercy, that love which is benevolent, which is compassionate, which raises man above his weakness to the infinite heights of the holiness of God. In this place we become particularly aware of this. From here, in fact, went out the Message of Divine Mercy that Christ himself chose to pass on to our generation through Saint Faustina. And it is a message that is clear and understandable for everyone. Anyone can come here, look at this Image of the merciful Jesus, His Heart radiating grace and hear in the depths of his own soul what Saint Faustina heard, "Fear nothing l am with you always" (Diary, 586).

And if this person responds with a sincere heart, "Jesus, I trust in you," he will find comfort in all his anxieties and fears. The message of Divine Mercy has always been near and dear to me. It is as if history had inscribed it in the tragic experience of the Second World War. In those difficult years, it was a particular support and an inexhaustible source of hope, not only for the people of Krakow but for the entire nation. This was also my personal experience, which I took with me to the See of Peter and which in a sense forms the image of this Pontificate. Do not neglect any of these dimensions of the apostolate”.

On Mercy Sunday, April 30, 2000, before some two hundred and fifty thousand pilgrims and the television cameras of the world, Pope John Paul II canonized Saint Faustina Kowalska, ‘the great Apostle of Divine Mercy’. In doing so, he also approved the Divine Mercy message and devotion by declaring the Second Sunday of Easter as "Divine Mercy Sunday" for the universal Church. In one of the most extraordinary homilies of his pontificate, Pope John Paul II repeated three times that Saint Faustina is "God's gift to our time." She made the message of Divine Mercy the "bridge to the third millennium." He then said, “By this act of canonization of Saint Faustina I intend today to pass this message on to the third millennium. I pass it on to all people, so that they will learn to know ever better the true face of God and the true face of their neighbour. In fact, love of God and love of one's neighbour are inseparable.

Exhorting all of us to join our voices to Mary, Mother of Mercy, and St. Faustina, "who made her life a hymn to mercy" and directing us to "sing the mercies of the Lord forever" (Ps 89:2), he ended the homily with these words, “And you, St. Faustina, a gift of God to our time, a gift from the land of Poland to the whole Church, obtain for us an awareness of the depth of Divine Mercy; help us to have a living experience of it and to bear witness to it among our brothers and sisters. May your message of light and hope spread throughout the world, spurring sinners to conversion, calming rivalries and hatred, and opening individuals and nations to the practice of brotherhood”. Devotion to Divine Mercy is the strong and clear mandate given to the Church in these revelations We have seen in St. Faustina's canonization to sainthood the fulfilment of this mandate. By canonizing her, the Church itself has established Divine Mercy as today's devotion for all. So today, fixing our gaze with Bl. Pope John Paul II on the face of the risen Christ, let us make our own prayer of trusting abandonment and say with firm hope, Jesus the risen Lord, I trust in you.


Love and kindest wishes my Brother in Jesus Christ our Saviour

I agree with you comments.

I would note that the idea that Mary is not a postmaster comes from the comments of Pope Francis regarding apparitions.


Originally Posted by Thekla View Post
Are you sure this is a matter of being a "post master" ?

It's a request for another to pray ... to join one's prayer.

I do think the matter of the body of Christ (Paul) and praying for one another are well established.

And requesting the prayers of the (deceased) Rachel was already well established in Judaism by the time of Christ.
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Galilee63

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Mark,

The RCC Popes from the past have indeed approved many of Jesus Christ our Saviour's and The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God's Holy apparitions and Holy words to Saints of whom were priests and nuns/sisters and His Religious, one being Pope John Paul II of whom approved Jesus and The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God's appearances to Saint Sister Faustina and Jesus' Divine Mercy and Divine Mercy Holy messages.

Here is one extract and I am happy to provide other Appearances of Jesus Christ our Saviour and The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God of which have been approved by the Roman Catholic Church over past centuries.

“I considered this message my special task. Providence has assigned it to me in the present situation of man, the Church, and the world” (Bl. Pope John Paul II November 22, 1981)

The knowledge of St. Faustina and the revelations bestowed on her coming from Jesus became known to Pope John Paul II early in 1940. It was at the time when he was studying for the priesthood secretly, in a seminary in Krakow.

The first he heard of these revelations was from another seminarian Andrew Deskur who later became a Cardinal also. Andrew told him about Saint Faustina Kowalska and the message of Divine Mercy she claimed she had received from the Lord.

It was during the time that she received the messages from Our Lord, that Karol Wojtyla was forcibly working under the Nazi occupation forces in the factory, which was in view of the convent and can still be seen today from the convent cemetery where St. Faustina was first buried.

Karol Wojtyla visited the convent frequently, first as a priest and then as a bishop. He went there often to pray and in later years gave retreats there as well. It was Karol Wojtyla, as Archbishop of Krakow, who after St. Faustina’s death, was the first to consider bringing St. Faustina’s name before the Congregation for the Causes of Saints for consideration as a figure worthy of being put forward for beatification.

During the Second Vatican Council, he approached Cardinal Ottaviani about the desire of the faithful in Poland to have Saint Faustina raised to the honours of the altar. Cardinal Ottaviani told him the first step to take was to get together the testimonies of all those who knew her, while they were still alive.

Archbishop Karol Wojtyla delegated his auxiliary bishop, Julian Groblicki, to gather the information in order to begin the Informative Process of the life and virtues of Saint Faustina. In September 1967 the process was completed, and in January 1968, the Process of Beatification was inaugurated. Because of the positive outcome of the informative Process, inquiries from many places, especially from Poland and, in particular, from Archbishop Wojtyla, were sent to the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. They asked whether the prohibitions of the 1959 Notification were still in effect. In response to these inquiries, the Sacred Congregation issued a new "Notification" dated April 15, 1978, which stated, “This Sacred Congregation, having now in possession the many original documents, unknown in 1959 and having taken into consideration the profoundly changed circumstances and having taken into account the opinion of many Polish Ordinaries, it now declares no longer binding the prohibitions contained in the quoted "Notification".

On the first Sunday of Advent, November 30, 1980, Pope John Paul II published his second encyclical letter “Dives in Misericordia” (Rich in Mercy) , in which he describes the mercy of God as the presence of a love which is greater than any evil, greater than any sin and greater than death. In this encyclical he calls on the Church to devote itself to pleading for God's mercy for the whole world.

The publishing of this second encyclical was probably the most important event in the life of the Holy Father and in his relationship to St.Faustina and the message of Divine Mercy.

It was as Archbishop of Krakow, that Karol Wojtyla defended Saint Faustina when her credibility and the message of Divine Mercy was questioned in Rome. This came about due to a faulty translation in Italian of her diary, which was sent to the Congregation for the Protection of the Faith.

Pope John Paul II, who said that he felt spiritually "very near to Saint Faustina and had been thinking about her and the message of Divine Mercy when he began ‘Dives in Misericordia’. On November 22, 1981, Pope John Paul II made his first public visit outside of Rome following a lengthy recuperation. On the Feast of Christ the King, he travelled to the Shrine of Merciful Love in Collevalenza, near Todi, Italy. There, within a few days, an international congress was held to reflect on the encyclical ‘Dives in Misericordia’.

After celebrating the Holy Sacrifice of the Eucharist, he made a strong public declaration about the importance of the message of mercy.He said, “A year ago I published the encyclical ‘Dives in Misericordi’. This made me come to the Sanctuary of Merciful Love today. By my presence I wish to reconfirm, in a way, the message of that encyclical. I wish to read it again and deliver it again. Right from the beginning of my ministry in St. Peter's See in Rome, I considered this message my special task. Providence has assigned it to me in the present situation of man, the Church, and the world. It could be said that precisely this situation assigned that message to me as my task before God”. (Extract from the homily by Pope John Paul II at The Shrine of Merciful Love in Collevalenza, Italy, November 22, 1981)

On Mercy Sunday, April 10, 1991, two years prior to the beatification of Saint Faustina, Pope John Paul II spoke about Saint Faustina, relating her to his encyclical and emphasising her role in bringing the message of mercy to the world, “The words of the encyclical on Divine Mercy (Dives in Misericordia) are particularly close to us. They recall the figure of the Servant of God, Saint Faustina Kowalska. This simple woman religious particularly brought the Easter message of the merciful Christ closer to the whole world”.

On Mercy Sunday, April 18, 1993, Saint Faustina was beatified by Pope John Paul II in St. Peter's Square. He began his homily with a quotation from her diary: "I clearly feel that my mission does not end with death, but begins”. Her mission continues and is yielding astonishing fruit. It is truly marvellous how her devotion to the merciful Jesus is spreading in our contemporary world and gaining so many human hearts!

"Where, if not in the Divine Mercy, can the world find refuge and the light of hope?" is an expression of the theme of Pope John Paul II's pontificate. In his ‘Regina Caeli’ talk of April 23, 1995, immediately after he had concluded celebrating Divine Mercy Sunday at the Holy Spirit Church, Pope John Paul II exhorted us to personally experience God's mercy, “In a special way, today is the Sunday of thanksgiving for the goodness God has shown man in the whole Easter mystery”.

This is why it is also called the Sunday of Divine Mercy. Essentially, God's mercy, as the mystical experience of Saint Faustina Kowalska, who was raised to the honour of the altar in 2000, helps us to understand, reveals precisely this truth: good triumphs over evil, life is stronger than death and God's love is more powerful than sin.

All this is manifested in Christ's paschal mystery, in which God appears to us as he is, a tender-hearted Father, who does not give up in the face of his children's ingratitude and is always ready to forgive.

We must personally experience this mercy if, in turn, we want to be capable of mercy. Let us learn to forgive! The spiral of hatred and violence which stains with blood the path of so many individuals and nations can only be broken by the miracle of forgiveness. When Pope John Paul II made a pilgrimage to the Shrine of Divine Mercy in Lagiewniki, Poland, on June 7, 1997, he addressed the Sisters of the Congregation of Our Lady of Mercy in a very personal way, reflecting on Divine Mercy and giving an amazing personal witness to the influence of Saint Faustina and her message, “I have come here to this Shrine as a pilgrim to take part in the unending hymn in honour of Divine Mercy. The psalmist of the Lord had intoned it, expressing what every generation preserved and will continue to preserve as a most precious fruit of faith.

There is nothing that man needs more than Divine Mercy, that love which is benevolent, which is compassionate, which raises man above his weakness to the infinite heights of the holiness of God. In this place we become particularly aware of this. From here, in fact, went out the Message of Divine Mercy that Christ himself chose to pass on to our generation through Saint Faustina. And it is a message that is clear and understandable for everyone. Anyone can come here, look at this Image of the merciful Jesus, His Heart radiating grace and hear in the depths of his own soul what Saint Faustina heard, "Fear nothing l am with you always" (Diary, 586).

And if this person responds with a sincere heart, "Jesus, I trust in you," he will find comfort in all his anxieties and fears. The message of Divine Mercy has always been near and dear to me. It is as if history had inscribed it in the tragic experience of the Second World War. In those difficult years, it was a particular support and an inexhaustible source of hope, not only for the people of Krakow but for the entire nation. This was also my personal experience, which I took with me to the See of Peter and which in a sense forms the image of this Pontificate. Do not neglect any of these dimensions of the apostolate”.

On Mercy Sunday, April 30, 2000, before some two hundred and fifty thousand pilgrims and the television cameras of the world, Pope John Paul II canonized Saint Faustina Kowalska, ‘the great Apostle of Divine Mercy’. In doing so, he also approved the Divine Mercy message and devotion by declaring the Second Sunday of Easter as "Divine Mercy Sunday" for the universal Church. In one of the most extraordinary homilies of his pontificate, Pope John Paul II repeated three times that Saint Faustina is "God's gift to our time." She made the message of Divine Mercy the "bridge to the third millennium." He then said, “By this act of canonization of Saint Faustina I intend today to pass this message on to the third millennium. I pass it on to all people, so that they will learn to know ever better the true face of God and the true face of their neighbour. In fact, love of God and love of one's neighbour are inseparable.

Exhorting all of us to join our voices to Mary, Mother of Mercy, and St. Faustina, "who made her life a hymn to mercy" and directing us to "sing the mercies of the Lord forever" (Ps 89:2), he ended the homily with these words, “And you, St. Faustina, a gift of God to our time, a gift from the land of Poland to the whole Church, obtain for us an awareness of the depth of Divine Mercy; help us to have a living experience of it and to bear witness to it among our brothers and sisters. May your message of light and hope spread throughout the world, spurring sinners to conversion, calming rivalries and hatred, and opening individuals and nations to the practice of brotherhood”. Devotion to Divine Mercy is the strong and clear mandate given to the Church in these revelations We have seen in St. Faustina's canonization to sainthood the fulfilment of this mandate. By canonizing her, the Church itself has established Divine Mercy as today's devotion for all. So today, fixing our gaze with Bl. Pope John Paul II on the face of the risen Christ, let us make our own prayer of trusting abandonment and say with firm hope, Jesus the risen Lord, I trust in you.

All the best,

Love and kindest wishes your sister in Jesus Christ our Saviour
 
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Rhamiel

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That's correct. The issue is only whether or not it is possible to BE overzealous.

Some posters seem to excuse even the most questionable practices.

Some of the rest of us have said 'yes,' that honoring Mary is fine; but that it's also the case that some people accord her the powers, authority, and attention that properly belong to God alone--and to make it worse, it's done with the approval of their church.

what questionable practices do you have in mind?
you are taking the stance of the "reasonable man on the street" as Chesterton would put it, arguing for moderation
but I really think we should talk more in specifics

one thing I was thinking about
in the book of Job, we had the Devil going around the world and observing things

now souls in heaven are not the same as angels
but even fallen angels have the ability to observe what goes on in the world
so that does set a precedence for spiritual beings that are not God being able to see what happens on earth
so saying that the Saints in Heaven can hear our prayers does not, in and of itself, put them on par with God
 
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mark46

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Mark,

The RCC Popes from the past have indeed approved many of Jesus Christ our Saviour's and The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God's Holy apparitions and Holy words to Saints of whom were priests and nuns/sisters and His Religious, one being Pope John Paul II of whom approved Jesus and The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God's appearances to Saint Sister Faustina and Jesus' Divine Mercy and Divine Mercy Holy messages.

There are nine approved apparitions of the Blessed Mother. And yes, the Divine Mercy Chaplet is an approved (and wonderful) prayer. Yes, the Divine Mercy Message was approved by Pope JPII.

That being said, it is NOT required that any Catholic believe in any of the apparitions; none are required to be a good Catholic. That is the teaching of the Church.

This is not a Catholic board. I want folks to understand that while devotions and apparitions are part of the life of the Church, they are not in any war required.

With regard to the end coming soon, please quote from any of the popes in last 50 years that directly tell us that we should believe that Jesus is coming back soon. This is a serious issue. After all, these past few weeks priests from coast to coast have taught that we should understand that we do not know, and even Jesus did not know, when Jesus will come again.

We have been taught from the time we were children to live each day as if it were our last and to offer up our sin in our evening prayers. Jesus will come as a their in the night. We SHOULD NOT spend time speculating on when that time will be. We are to help prepare a way for the Lord. We are to do the work given to us. At least this is what has been clearly taught as long as I can remember (at least back to Vatican II).
 
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Galilee63

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Jesus Christ our Saviour appeared to Saint Bridget with The Blessed Virgin Mary in Sweden during the 1550's

Saint Birgitta, Saint Bridget (or Brigid) of Sweden, was a mystic and saint, and founder of the Bridgettine Order after the death of her husband of twenty years. She was also the mother of a saint—Saint Catherine of Vadstena.

www.marypages.com/BridgedofSweden.htm

Pope John Paul II was a follower of Saint Bridget and the Prayers that Jesus Christ our Saviour and The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God gave to Saint Bridget.


Saint Bridget prayed for a long time to know how many blows Jesus Christ suffered during His terrible Passion. Rewarding her patience, one day He appeared to her and said: “I received 5475 blows upon My Body. If you wish to honor them in some way, recite fifteen Our Fathers and fifteen Hail Marys with the following Prayers, which I Myself shall teach you, for an entire year. When the year is finished, you will have honored each of My Wounds.”

The prayers became known as the Fifteen Oes; Prayers Honoring the 7 Times Jesus Spilled His Precious Blood for Us, as Revealed by Our Lady Mary also to St. Bridget, and Approved by Pope Clement XII.

1st Prayer

Our Father, Who art in heaven, hallowed be thy Name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.

Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of death. Amen.

O Jesus Christ! Eternal sweetness to those who love Thee, joy surpassing all joy and all desire, salvation and hope of all sinners; Thou Who hast proved that Thou hast no greater desire than to be amongst men even assuming human nature during the course of time for the love of men, recall all the sufferings that Thou hast endured from the first moment of Thy Conception, and especially during Thy Passion, as it was decreed and ordained from all eternity in Thy Divine Plan.

Remember, O Lord, that during the Last Supper with Thy Disciples, having washed their feet, Thou gavest them Thy Precious Body and Blood, and while at the same time Thou didst sweetly console them, Thou didst foretell them of Thy coming Passion.

Remember the sadness and bitterness which Thou didst experience in Thy Soul as Thou prayed: “My Soul is sorrowful even unto death.”

Remember all the fear, anguish and pain that Thou didst suffer in Thy delicate Body before the Crucifixion, when after having prayed three separate times, bathed in a ‘sweat of blood,’ Thou wast betrayed by Judas, Thy Disciple, arrested by the people of a nation Thou hadst chosen and elevated, accused by false witnesses, unjustly judged by three judges, all this in the flower of Thy youth and during the Solemn Paschal Season.

Remember that Thou wast despoiled of Thy garments and clothed with the garments of derision; that Thy face and eyes were veiled, that Thou wast buffeted, crowned with thorns, a scepter placed in Thy hands, that Thou wast fastened to a column and crushed with blows and overwhelmed with affronts and outrages.

In memory of all these pains and sufferings which Thou didst endure before Thy Passion on the Cross, grant that before I die, I may with true contrition make a sincere and entire Confession, make worthy satisfaction and be granted the remission of all my sins. Amen.

2nd Prayer

The Our Father

The Hail Mary

O Jesus! True liberty of Angels, paradise of delights, remember the horror and sadness which Thou didst endure when Thy enemies, like furious lions, surrounded Thee, and by thousands of blows, insults, lacerations, and other unheard of cruelties, tormented Thee at will.

Through these torments and insulting words, I beg of Thee, O My Saviour to deliver me from all enemies, both visible and invisible, that under Thy protection, I may attain the perfection of Eternal Salvation. Amen.

3rd Prayer

The Our Father

The Hail Mary

O Jesus! Creator of heaven and earth, Whom nothing can encompass nor limit, Thou Who dost enfold and hold all under Thy loving power, remember the very bitter pain which Thou didst suffer when blow by blow and with hatred the Jews nailed Thy Sacred Hands and Feet to the Cross, with big blunt nails; and, not finding Thee in a pitiable enough state to satisfy their rage, they enlarged Thy wounds, and added pain to pain, and with indescribable cruelty stretched Thy Body on the Cross, and dislocated Thy Bones by pulling them on all sides.

I beg of Thee, O Jesus, by the memory of this most Holy and most loving suffering of the Cross, to grant me the grace to fear Thee and Love Thee. Amen.

4th Prayer

The Our Father

The Hail Mary

O Jesus! Heavenly Physician raised aloft on the Cross in order that through Thy Wounds, ours might be healed; remember the bruises which Thou didst suffer and the weakness of all Thy Members which were stretched to such a degree that never was there pain like unto Thine, from the Crown of Thy Head to the Soles of Thy Feet there was not one spot of Thy Body that was not in torment; and yet, forgetting all Thy Sufferings, Thou didst not cease to pray to Thy Heavenly Father for Thy enemies, saying: “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”

Through this great mercy, and in memory of this suffering, grant that the remembrance of Thy Most Bitter Passion may effect in us a perfect contrition and the remission of all our sins. Amen.

5th Prayer

The Our Father

The Hail Mary

O Jesus! Mirror of Eternal Splendor, remember the sadness which Thou experienced, when, contemplating in the light of Thy Divinity the predestination of those who would be saved by the merits of Thy Sacred Passion, Thou didst see at the same time the great multitude of reprobates who would be damned for their sins, and Thou didst complain bitterly of those hopeless, lost and unfortunate sinners.

Through this abyss of compassion and pity, and especially through the goodness which Thou displayed to the good thief when Thou saidst to him: “This day thou shalt be with me in paradise.” I beg of Thee, O Sweet Jesus, that at the hour of my death Thou wilt show me mercy. Amen.

6th Prayer

The Our Father

The Hail Mary

O Jesus! King most loving and most desirable, remember the grief which Thou didst suffer, when naked and like a common criminal, Thou wast raised and fastened to the Cross, when all Thy relatives and friends abandoned Thee, except Thy Beloved Mother who remained close to Thee during Thy Agony and whom Thou didst entrust to Thy faithful disciple when Thou saidst to Mary: “Woman, behold thy son,” and to John:”Behold Thy Mother.”

I beg of Thee, O my Saviour, by the sword of sorrow which pierced the soul of Thy Holy Mother, to have compassion on me in all my afflictions and tribulations, both corporal and spiritual, and to assist me in all my trials and especially at the hour of my death. Amen.

7th Prayer

The Our Father

The Hail Mary

O Jesus! Inexhaustible Fountain of Compassion Who by a profound gesture of love, said from the Cross: “I thirst!” Suffered from the thirst for the salvation of the human race, I beg of Thee, O my Saviour, to inflame in our hearts the desire to tend toward perfection in all of our acts; and to extinguish in us the lust of the flesh and the ardor of worldly desires. Amen.

8th Prayer

The Our Father

The Hail Mary

O Jesus! Sweetness of hearts, delight of the spirit, by the bitterness of the gall and the vinegar which Thou didst taste on the Cross for love of us, grant us the grace to receive worthily Thy Precious Body and Blood during our life and at the hour of our death, that it may serve us as a remedy of consolation for our souls. Amen.

9th Prayer

The Our Father

The Hail Mary

O Jesus! Royal virtue and mental delight, recall the anguish and pain which Thou didst endure, when, from the bitterness of agonizing death and the insults of the outrageous Jews, Thou didst exclaim in a loud voice as if Thou wast forsaken by the Father saying: “My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?”

Through this anguish, I beg of Thee, O my Saviour, not to abandon me during the anguish and pains of my death. Amen.

10th Prayer

The Our Father

The Hail Mary

O Jesus! Thou Who art the beginning and the end of all things, life and virtue, remember that for our sakes Thou wast plunged into an abyss of suffering from the Soles of Thy Feet to the Crown of Thy Head. In consideration of the enormity of Thy Wounds, teach me to keep, through pure Love, Thy Commandments which are the pathways for those who truly love Thee. Amen.

11th Prayer

The Our Father.

The Hail Mary

O Jesus! Deep abyss of mercy, I beg of Thee, in memory of Thy Wounds which penetrated to the very marrow of Thy Bones and to the depth of Thy Being, to draw me, a miserable sinner, overwhelmed by my offenses, away from sin and to hide me from Thy Face, justly irritated against me, hide me in Thy Wounds, until Thy anger and indignation shall have passed away. Amen.

12th Prayer

The Our Father

The Hail Mary

O Jesus! Thou Who art the Truth, Symbol of Unity, Link of Charity, remember the multitude of wounds with which Thou wast afflicted from head to foot, torn and reddened by the spilling of Thy Adorable Blood. O Great and Universal Pain, which Thou didst suffer in Thy Virginal Flesh for love of us! Sweetest Jesus! What is there that Thou couldst have done for us which Thou hast not done!

May the Fruit of Thy Suffering be renewed in my soul by the faithful remembrance of Thy Passion, and may Thy Love increase in my heart each day, until I see Thee in Eternity; Thou Who art the treasure of every real good and every joy, which I beg Thee to grant me, O Sweetest Jesus, in Heaven. Amen.

13th Prayer

The Our Father

The Hail Mary

O Jesus! Strong Lion, Immortal and Invincible King, remember the pain which Thou didst endure when all Thy strength, moral and physical, was entirely exhausted, Thou didst bow Thy head saying: “All is Consummated!”

Through this anguish and grief, I beg of Thee, O Lord, to have mercy on me at the hour of my death, when my mind will be greatly troubled and my soul will be in anguish. Amen.

14th Prayer

The Our Father

The Hail Mary

O Jesus! Only-begotten Son of the Father, Splendor and Figure of His Substance, remember the simple and humble recommendation Thou didst make of Thy Soul to the Eternal Father, saying: “Father, into Thy Hands I commend My Spirit;” and when Thy Body, all torn, and Thy Heart, broken, and the Bowels of Thy Mercy open to redeem us, Thou didst expire.

Through this Precious Death, I beg Thee, O King of Saints, to comfort me and give me help to resist the devil, the flesh, and the world so that, being dead to the world, I may live for Thee alone. I beg of Thee at the hour of my death to receive me, a pilgrim and an exile, returning to Thee. Amen.

15th Prayer

The Our Father,

The Hail Mary

O Jesus! True and Fruitful Vine! Remember the abundant outpouring of blood which Thou didst so generously shed, pressed down and running over as the grape crushed in the wine press.

From Thy Side, pierced with the lance by a soldier, Blood and Water issued forth until there was not left in Thy Body a single drop, and finally, like a Bundle of Myrrh lifted to the very top of the Cross, Thy Delicate Flesh was destroyed, the Very Substance of Thy Body withered, and the Marrow of Thy Bones dried up.

Through this bitter Passion and through the outpouring of Thy Precious Blood, I beg of Thee, O Sweet Jesus, to pierce my heart, so that my tears of penitence and love may be my bread night and day. May I be converted entirely to Thee, may my heart be Thy Perpetual Resting Place, may my conversation be pleasing to Thee, and may the end of my life be so praiseworthy that I may merit Heaven, and there, with Thy Saints, praise Thee forever and ever. Amen.

———————————– ————————————- ———————————–

Promises of St. Bridget Prayers

When someone says these prayers for a year’s time, these are the promises promised by Our Lord:

1) “I will deliver fifteen souls of his lineage from Purgatory.”

2) “Fourteen souls of his lineage will be confirmed and preserved in grace.”

3) “Fifteen sinners of his lineage will be converted.”

4) “Whoever recites these prayers will obtain the first degree of perfection.”

5) “Fifteen days before his death, I will give him My Precious Blood to drink lest he thirst eternally.”

6) “Fifteen days before his death he will conceive a deep contrition for all his sins and a perfect knowledge of them.”

7) “I will place before him My Victorious Cross for his help and defense against the attacks of his enemies.”

8) “Before his death I will come with My Dearest and Beloved Mother.”

9) “I will graciously receive his soul, and will lead it into Eternal Joys.”

10) “And having led it there, I will give him a special draught from the fountain of my deity, something I will not do for those who have not recited My Prayers.”

11) “Let it be known that whoever may have been living in a state of mortal sin for thirty years, but who will recite devoutly, or have the intention to recite these prayers, I, the Lord will forgive him all of his sins.”

12) “I will defend him against evil temptations.”

13) “I will preserve and guard his five senses.”

14) “I will preserve him from a sudden death.”

15) “His soul will be delivered from eternal death.”

16) “He will obtain all he asks for from God and the Blessed Virgin.”

17) “If he has lived all his life doing his own will, and he is to die the next day, his life will be prolonged.”

18) “Every time one recites these prayers he will gain a hundred days indulgences.”

19) “He will be assured of being joined to the Supreme Choir of Angels.”

20) “Whoever teaches these prayers to another will have continual joy and merit which will last throughout eternity.”

21) “There, where these prayers are being said or may be said in the future, God will be present there by His Grace.”
 
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what questionable practices do you have in mind?
you are taking the stance of the "reasonable man on the street" as Chesterton would put it, arguing for moderation
but I really think we should talk more in specifics

one thing I was thinking about
in the book of Job, we had the Devil going around the world and observing things

now souls in heaven are not the same as angels
but even fallen angels have the ability to observe what goes on in the world
so that does set a precedence for spiritual beings that are not God being able to see what happens on earth
so saying that the Saints in Heaven can hear our prayers does not, in and of itself, put them on par with God

What I am hearing from various Catholic individuals ranges from the idea of asking a friend to pray for you. The concept is that of asking another human being to pray for you. At the other extreme we have the model of a postmaster directing millions of prayers simultaneously - a feat which no human being could ever imagine performing. Thus, we have an individual with superhuman abilities and certainly not just a chum that we ask to pray for us.
 
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Rhamiel

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What I am hearing from various Catholic individuals ranges from the idea of asking a friend to pray for you. The concept is that of asking another human being to pray for you. At the other extreme we have the model of a postmaster directing millions of prayers simultaneously - a feat which no human being could ever imagine performing. Thus, we have an individual with superhuman abilities and certainly not just a chum that we ask to pray for us.

could a human be strong enough to knock down the supports of a huge temple with his bare hands?
Sampson did

can a human being survive inside a white hot furnace?
the Children of Israel did

survive within the belly of a fish for 3 days?

seems like God can give His servants amazing abilities
 
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Albion

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could a human be strong enough to knock down the supports of a huge temple with his bare hands?
Sampson did

can a human being survive inside a white hot furnace?
the Children of Israel did

survive within the belly of a fish for 3 days?

seems like God can give His servants amazing abilities

That's a reasonable point--as far as it goes. But the idea of Mary transmitting everyone's prayers onto God is about the LEAST controversial issue, even if it's without any basis in Scripture. That would be in the category of "ranges FROM..." in my opinion.

Where the devotions range TO is another matter. The idea that Mary passes judgment on the petitions herself, is the "dispenser" of all Graces (rather than God himself), that she is the co-redeemer of the world, was bodily Assumed into heaven, guarantees our happy deaths, etc. and that we should pray TO her rather than ask her to pass on our prayers...all of this, and more, are much less easily defended.
 
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Galilee63

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Jesus Christ our Saviour delivered His Divine Mercy Chaplet to mankind through Saint Faustina during the 1930s and prior to this, Jesus Christ our Saviour delivered The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God's Holy Rosary to Saint Dominic during 1214 and then during 1260 Jesus appeared to the Blessed Alan de la Roche reminding Blessed Alan to preach The Holy Rosary that God The Most High Blessed The Virgin Mary and mankind to pray for world causes and personal causes; one of the most Loving Holy beautiful Gifts that God The Most High has Blessed mankind to pray to "The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God".

This is the primary point/reason I have been posting on this thread apart from defending my Heavenly Mother Mary of Whom has been Blessing, Interceding, Leading souls/people back to Jesus Christ our Saviour well before you and I were created Albion, and answering prayers of Her Children whom trust sufficiently to pray to our Blessed Virgin Mary Her Holy Rosary that Jesus requested mankind to pray through Saint Dominic and The Blessed Alan De La Roche including other prayers that Jesus Himself delivered through Saint Faustina, Saint Gertrude, many other Nuns/Sisters/religious, within each Century. Hundreds of Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit's Religious representatives of Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit's Albion many of which are approved by the RCC.

Regardless - millions of Catholics around the world after having prayed The Holy Rosary to our Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God have reported their illnesses cured by Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit, have reported all of their Prayers answered by Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit through The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God's Loving Holy intercession.

Including myself:- Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit have answered every Holy Rosary pertaining to many world causes and personal causes for others over the years. My own family members have all reported the same thing over 30 years; my 83 year old Father included has prayed to The Blessed Virgin Mary during his life and has received every Blessing Gift and Grace given to him by Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit including every recipient of whom my Father has prayed to our Blessed Virgin Mary.

Deterring people from praying to The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God Her Holy Rosary given by God The Most High and delivered by Jesus Christ our Saviour is going against the specific Loving Holy requests of Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit.
 
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Albion

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Deterring people from praying to The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God Her Holy Rosary given by God The Most High and delivered by Jesus Christ our Saviour is going against the specific Loving Holy requests of Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit.

That's a really dramatic statement, but in truth, what it is is nothing more or less than adhering to the Holy Scriptures in belief and practice.

You may say that sound advice like this is "deterring people" from a wrongful practice, but no one is preventing them (or you) from worshipping anyway you or they may choose...or from using CF to promote a certain denomination under the guise of "discussion." :)
 
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justinangel

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a sign of the coming messiah.
does not equate to a necessitation of the sign as a means of salvation.it may /and does ,point to the way ..but is not in itself ,the way.
The Lord Jesus is.

Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel: God with us.
Isaiah 7, 14

Mary's association with our Lord and Saviour was not merely a physical one. Rather it was moral by her free, salutary, and meritorious acts. Eve contributed morally to the fall of Adam by succumbing to Satan's temptation and disobeying God. Mary, on the other hand, cooperated morally in our redemption by her faith in the words of the angel Gabriel and by her consent to conceive and bear Jesus. Certainly Mary is not the principal and perfective cause of our redemption; she couldn't have redeemed us in justice, for she herself was in need of redemption being a descendant of Adam. That act of infinite value which alone could reconcile humankind with God could only belong to Christ by the union of divine and human operation in his person, the joint agency of the divine and human nature. Jesus' natural son-ship with God, or his grace of hypostatic union, is even greater than the fullness of created grace. Similarly, Mary's divine motherhood is greater than the fullness of grace with which she was endowed and made her act of assent salutary and meritorious in God's sight. Our redemption absolutely required a theandric act of infinite value in the person of God incarnate. But by consenting to the Incarnation, Mary surely is a secondary cause of our salvation, just as we in a sense are by cooperating with divine grace. Yet Mary's contribution is dispositive and subordinate to our Lord's act. She was not subordinate to her Son only by nature, but also by concurring to save the human race through the grace of God which proceeded from her Son's merits. Mary's faith working through love rendered a temporal satisfaction without which the Incarnation would not have occurred. It was because Mary acted in, with, and by Jesus that he came into the world to save us. Mary was chosen by God to be His helper and consort, just as Eve was to be for Adam. But the fruit that Mary had to offer 'mankind' was that of her womb. The Incarnation happened because by her self-renunciation Mary did expiate the insult Eve personally offered to God by her transgression. In grace and charity her consent conferred on her the right to a supernatural reward: the divine maternity. At the appointed time our Lord chose to be born of a woman (Gal. 4:4). God decreed that our redemption should require no means other than the Incarnation.

Draw near to God and he will draw near to you.
James 4, 8


PAX
:angel:
 
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