The Skunk and the Trunk: How Do Random Mutations Account for Complexity?

[random_guy]

Technically of course evolution is a theory. But I do personally believe it is on the level of a hypothesis, the same way you say Creationism is a hypothesis. It is my personal opinion that both are systems of belief, and both take faith to believe. Personally, due to what I believe is the lack of evidence (transitional forms, lack of explanation for complexity, lack of explanation for intelligence, lack of explanation of origins), it is far more logical to me to believe in the literal creation of the earth and mankind as recorded in Genesis. By God. Directly.

Well, technically, I consider Creationism to be a myth, not even scientific. It's not falsibiable, which is a requirement of all hypothesis.

As for the lack of evidence, well, that exists because some people refuse to see the evidence.

 

[SackLunch]

Well, smell is caused by the bateria's waste product eating stuff from the sweat glands. Since this is a perfect world, we'll assume that the bateria didn't eat/reproduce/defecate. Now, how to solve the problem with the missing E. Coli. in the gut of Adam and Eve...

Well all of that is very interesting. The E. Coli are friendly bacteria.

I use one of those crystal rock things for deodorant. It really does work. And sometimes I can really stink if I don't use it.

 

[The Seeker]

can a person observe evolution today. please expound on some examples.

Mysostatin blocking mutation in human beings
New species of mosquito on London underground
Other observed examples of speciation

Oh and you might want to at least skim through the reams of evidence available in the quiet thread.

 

[SackLunch]

No, no it is not. You seem to be confusing your vocal minority for half of the world.

Many people within Islam, Judiasm, Hinduism, Buddhism, and many other world religions believe that human beings were created by God. I'm sorry if I cannot convince you of this, but perhaps you could do your own research.

 

[The Seeker]

Many people within...Buddhism believe that human beings were created by God

Oh dear

 

[random_guy]

Well all of that is very interesting. The E. Coli are friendly bacteria.

I use one of those crystal rock things for deodorant. It really does work. And sometimes I can really stink if I don't use it.

Well, E. Coli. is friendly until you accidently get it out of your gut and into your body. It becomes an illness, then. This means that E. Coli. either didn't exist (causing who knows what digestive problems) or Adam and Eve had a super gut, one that nothing could penetrate.

 

[John16:2]

The skunk is a rather stinky animal when he wants to be. The skunk has a gland that, when activated through fear or defense, emits a foul odor over a several-mile area. If you've smelled skunk before, you know what I mean. But why does this skunk not stink all the time? How did the skunk gain the intelligence and the physiological means to use this gland at the proper time? Why isn't that stinky gland located in the skunk's kindney, or on his tongue?

Now look at the trunk of the elephant. Elephants use their long, muscular trunks for a number of tasks. Not only do they use their trunks for gathering food, but they also use them to move (and remove) objects. I was amazed that after the recent Tsunamis in Indonesia, elephants were called in to help clean up the rubble and search for people. Elephants can even uproot trees with those trunks! It truly is a specialized wonder of complexity.

I am just amazed with all the complexity in nature. Even just one organ, let's say, the eye - is extremely complex. But add in the lungs, brain, kidneys, liver, blood, nervous system, heart - and what a marvel life becomes. How amazing that all of these complex systems have come together to form one human or one animal.

What are the odds that these complex systems formed randomly from random mutations? Where did the intelligence to operate all these independent systems in perfect harmony and cooperation originate? And how is it that all these systems not only complement each other, but the whole could not function properly without them?

I say it could only be explained by an intelligent designer, namely, God, who fashioned life from His own hand.

Yea, it's too perfect in nature; I think of the fish that evolved the ability to hide on the sea floor, with two eyes on the up side: intelligent nature facilitating the perceived need by the fish.

Heard on the radio last night that bees have no predecessors they evolved from, and are quite unlike other insects on earth. Just a rumor, take it or leave it, planted by intelligence implied.

The new discovery of black holes occasionally emitting jet streams of nebulaic matter means the galaxies can self perpetuate and regenerate anew, along with supernova nebula. It's as if the multiverse is also alive. Quasars are now thought to be precursers to galaxies, and far more common than previously thought, especially far in the past with Hubble. If there was a bang, it shot quasars.

Yamialpha has a link to the science.com article in the thread about black holes in Physical & Life Sciences category, that info is based on.

Orderly is the relative structure of the visible universe, fairly uniform in all directions, with no stops to infinity.

www.electric-universe.info has a new view.

It's too intelligently ordered to not be alive itself, in some fashion.

www.bigbangneverhappened.org

www.metaresearch.org

 

[Ozymandius]

Technically of course evolution is a theory. But I do personally believe it is on the level of a hypothesis, the same way you say Creationism is a hypothesis. It is my personal opinion that both are systems of belief, and both take faith to believe. Personally, due to what I believe is the lack of evidence (transitional forms, lack of explanation for complexity, lack of explanation for intelligence, lack of explanation of origins), it is far more logical to me to believe in the literal creation of the earth and mankind as recorded in Genesis. By God. Directly.

It may be your personal belief that evolution is itself a system of belief, but you are wrong. You can still believe it all you like, but it's wrong. What you beleive to be a "lack of evidence" is a lack of knowledge or willful ignorance on your part.

Why is it more logical to believe only one of a thousand creation myths, all of which have little or nothing to do with the observable world?

 

[The Seeker]

Yea, it's too perfect in nature; I think of the fish that evolved the ability to hide on the sea floor, with two eyes on the up side: intelligent nature facilitating the perceived need by the fish.

You are Richard Dawkins on a massive wind up and I claim my 5 biomorphs.

 

[SackLunch]

Yea, it's too perfect in nature; I think of the fish that evolved the ability to hide on the sea floor, with two eyes on the up side: intelligent nature facilitating the perceived need by the fish.

Heard on the radio last night that bees have no predecessors they evolved from, and are quite unlike other insects on earth. Just a rumor, take it or leave it, planted by intelligence implied.

The new discovery of black holes occasionally emitting jet streams of nebulaic matter means the galaxies can self perpetuate and regenerate anew, along with supernova nebula. It's as if the multiverse is also alive. Quasars are now thought to be precursers to galaxies, and far more common than previously thought, especially far in the past with Hubble. If there was a bang, it shot quasars.

Yamialpha has a link to the science.com article in the thread about black holes in Physical & Life Sciences category, that info is based on.

Orderly is the relative structure of the visible universe, fairly uniform in all directions, with no stops to infinity.

www.electric-universe.info has a new view.

It's too intelligently ordered to not be alive itself, in some fashion.

www.bigbangneverhappened.org

www.metaresearch.org

Now THAT is food for thought, John. Thanks for posting.

 

[SackLunch]

Well, E. Coli. is friendly until you accidently get it out of your gut and into your body. It becomes an illness, then. This means that E. Coli. either didn't exist (causing who knows what digestive problems) or Adam and Eve had a super gut, one that nothing could penetrate.

Super gut! That's funny.

 

[ImmortalTechnique]

pretty much all of creationism is

 

[nvxplorer]

Now THAT is food for thought, John. Thanks for posting.

While you're digesting that food for thought, realize that the third course is evidence for a universe billions of years old.

 

[notto]

Doesn't this OP belong in the 'What would an ID class be like' thread?

If this is what passes for intellectual pursuit in the ID and creationists circle, its A's all around.

 

[SackLunch]

Doesn't this OP belong in the 'What would an ID class be like' thread?

If this is what passes for intellectual pursuit in the ID and creationists circle, its A's all around.

What is your response to the OP?

 

[notto]

What is your response to the OP?

That its a set of silly statements by somebody who doesn't seem to have done even a cursory investigation into what evolution actually says and how it works.

 

[SackLunch]

That its a set of silly statements by somebody who doesn't seem to have done even a cursory investigation into what evolution actually says and how it works.

But how DO you account for all the complexity around you? How DO you account for complex structures all forming together randomly to form a perfect living organism as complex as the human body?

How do you account for human emotion? Where did that come from? And why? How do you account for human intelligence? Where did it come from originally? Or did that occur randomly as well? Why are humans distinct in that we are forward-thinking, planning for events in the future?

So many questions, so little time...

 

[notto]

But how DO you account for all the complexity around you? How DO you account for complex structures all forming together randomly to form a perfect living organism as complex as the human body?

Nope, and neither does evolution. Nice strawman you got there.

 

[nvxplorer]

But how DO you account for all the complexity around you? How DO you account for complex structures all forming together randomly to form a perfect living organism as complex as the human body?

Go to your local library and check out The Blind Watchmaker by Dawkins.

 

[Nightson]

But how DO you account for all the complexity around you?

Evolution

How DO you account for complex structures all forming together randomly to form a perfect living organism as complex as the human body?

It's not random. The phrase all forming together is misleading, they all formed side by side. How do you measure complex, I don't see it as amazingly complex.

How do you account for human emotion?

Evolution

Where did that come from?

Umm...evolution...

And why?

Evolution

How do you account for human intelligence?

Evolution

Where did it come from originally?

Umm....it wasn't hiding anywhere or anything....

Or did that occur randomly as well?

Almost nothing in evolution is random.

Why are humans distinct in that we are forward-thinking, planning for events in the future?

We aren't.

So many questions, so little time...

Some good books on evolution would probably help. The Blind Watchmaker is excellent.