The Sins of Jesus?

[Composer]

For verily he took not on [him the nature of] angels; but he took on [him] the seed of Abraham. {took not...: Gr. taketh not hold of angels, but of the seed of Abraham he taketh hold} (Heb. 2:16) KJS

NB - NOT the nature of angels but the SEED of Abraham

Proving yet again that the Scriptures do not contradict themselves but Jesus inherited the mortal weaknesses of the sins of the flesh after the likeness of Abraham.

QED

 

[Oblio]

GOD did the miracles and NOT JESUS!

 

[Tawhano]

Shame on you Composer, coming here telling people you are some great Bible teacher who knows the truth and spread your blasphemy about the Son of God, the Christ, not dieing for our sins. Twisting the scriptures every which way to lie to the very elect if you were able. The scriptures tell us quite plainly and without a shred of doubt that Jesus, the Christ, came to wash our sins away in His blood. May God forgive you.


1 Corinthians 15:3
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Galatians 1:4
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:12
I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

1 John 3:5
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

1 John 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

 

[Composer]

For verily he took not on [him the nature of] angels; but he took on [him] the seed of Abraham. {took not...: Gr. taketh not hold of angels, but of the seed of Abraham he taketh hold} (Heb. 2:16) KJS

NB - NOT the nature of angels but the SEED of Abraham

Jesus inherited the sins that all in the flesh inherit.

You deny the facts Proof: -

For all have sinned , and come short of the glory of God; (Rom. 3:23) KJS

Now are the Scriptures contradicting themselves?

Does it say here that ALL but one have sinned?

No! it does not.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned : (Rom. 5:12) KJS

Does it say here again that ALL but one have sinned?

No! it does not.

Proving yet again that the Scriptures do not contradict themselves but Jesus inherited the mortal weaknesses of the sins of the flesh after the likeness of Abraham.

What it does prove is that the Scriptures are exactly correct, that Jesus inherited the same "carnal" nature that ALL men inherit.

Jesus DID NOT have the Nature of angels.

What is the nature of angels Tawhano?

Is it Spiritual or carnal?

The Scriptures state that heavenly angels have a Spiritual nature Proof: -

They are Spiritual beings - Heb. 1:14

Jesus did NOT inherit the nature of angels. Proof: (Heb. 2:16) KJS

 

[Oblio]

Is this where we hear that Christ our God was a created being ?

 

[Tawhano]

Composer Said:
You deny the facts Proof: -

For all have sinned , and come short of the glory of God; (Rom. 3:23) KJS

Now are the Scriptures contradicting themselves?

Does it say here that ALL but one have sinned?

No! it does not.

It is you who deny Scripture for it is written:

1Peter 2:22
Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

And in another place:

2Corintians 5:21
For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

You yourself accept that the scriptures do not contradict themselves so how can these verses be reconciled with Romans 3:23? Simple, Romans is talking about mankind that Jesus has come to redeem to God and not including Him.

Composer said:
Jesus DID NOT have the Nature of angels.

What is the nature of angels Tawhano?

Is it Spiritual or carnal?

The Scriptures state that heavenly angels have a Spiritual nature Proof: -

They are Spiritual beings - Heb. 1:14

Jesus did NOT inherit the nature of angels. Proof: (Heb. 2:16) KJS

Exactly right Composer, and the Bible is quite clear on this:

1John 4:1-3
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

This does not prove that Jesus inherited any sin however. In fact you have never provided any scripture that says mankind inherits sin at all. The scriptures are quite clear that Jesus was sinless:

1John 3:5
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

 

[Composer]

Tawhano wrote: 1John 4:1-3
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

This does not prove that Jesus inherited any sin however. In fact you have never provided any scripture that says mankind inherits sin at all.

Composer responds: That is totally untrue, I do so again for your benefit -

Jesus was a man - Acts 2:22 KJS

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: {for that: or, in whom} (Rom. 5:12) KJS

Does it say "all men but Jesus"?

No it does not, it INCLUDES Jesus the man.

Yet again -

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: {for sin: or, by a sacrifice for sin} (Rom. 8:3) KJS

NB God's Son - In the likeness of sinful flesh . . .

Now read carefully "likeness" -

Strong's Concordance Renders: -
BDB/Thayers # 3667
3667 homoioma {hom-oy'-o-mah}
from 3666; TDNT - 5:191,684; n n
AV - likeness 3, made like to 1, similitude 1, shape 1; 6
1) that which has been made after the likeness of something
1a) a figure, image, likeness, representation
1b) likeness i.e. resemblance, such as amounts almost to equality or identity

NB. . . . resemblance, such as amounts almost to equality or identity

LIKENESS = EQUALITY

Jesus was of a SINFUL flesh.

Yet again -

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (Rom. 3:23)

You keep saying that Jesus DID NO SIN, which is absolutely true, but Jesus died for the sins of which he could not help and was born with as are ALL in the flesh born with as I have proved countless times and do so here again with all the scriptures I have presented.

Tawhano wrote: The scriptures are quite clear that Jesus was sinless:

Composer responds: You can see from the above that you are wrong.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Composer you have met your match and have lost this debate. More importantly you have sinned against God and need to go to him! You show no fruit of the spirit...

Gal. 5:22-23, But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Heb. 13:15, By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

1 John 4:1-3, BELOVED, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of anti-christ, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

I have applied this to you and have made my mind up about you.

 

[Tawhano]

Composer responds: You can see from the above that you are wrong.

Not at all, I can see from your response that you are wrong. You fail to prove that sin is inherited.

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

This verse does not say we inherited sin at all. Adam had no rules, save the one, to live by. Nothing was a sin at that time: there was no sin. Then Adam and Eve disobeyed God and ate of the fruit, which opened their eyes to good and evil, and sin entered into the world and the result of that action brought death to mankind. Notice that God didn’t punish them with death but that death was the result of them partaking of the fruit. God punished them by throwing them out of the garden, that was their punishment for disobeying Him. Sin was manifested when they ate of the fruit and that introduced sin to the world; not inherited as you claim. No one is punished for the sins of Adam. Adam simply brought death to mankind as well as the knowledge of good and evil. The flesh is weak and therefore succumbs to sin.

Matthew 26:41
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would

Again, I repeat, you failed to show that mankind has inherited sin. As with all of your other doctrines you only have one or two verses to support your claim and ignore all the others that clearly say you are wrong. The scriptures are not wrong; it is your interpretation of them that is flawed.

Composer Said:
Now read carefully "likeness" -

Strong's Concordance Renders: -
BDB/Thayers # 3667
3667 homoioma {hom-oy'-o-mah}
from 3666; TDNT - 5:191,684; n n
AV - likeness 3, made like to 1, similitude 1, shape 1; 6
1) that which has been made after the likeness of something
1a) a figure, image, likeness, representation
1b) likeness i.e. resemblance, such as amounts almost to equality or identity

NB. . . . resemblance, such as amounts almost to equality or identity

No, you read carefully: ALMOST to equality or identity. It means a representation of; resemblance of; NOT an exact copy. You said the Scriptures do not contradict one another so you explain how it is that you believe the scriptures say Jesus was sinful like us and yet the scriptures say He was without sin. You keep repeating that all have sinned and then say Jesus didn’t do any added sin. This is nonsense. The scriptures say all have sinned not that all have inherited sin. Big difference. So explain how the scriptures contradict themselves under your interpretation.

Composer said:
You keep saying that Jesus DID NO SIN, which is absolutely true, but Jesus died for the sins of which he could not help and was born with as are ALL in the flesh born with as I have proved countless times and do so here again with all the scriptures I have presented.

No you have proven nothing of the sort. All you have done is repeated your opinions countless times. You provide no scripture that says Jesus, or anyone else for that matter, has inherited sin. Please show me one verse that says we inherited sin from Adam. Yes sin entered into the world through the actions of Adam. Yes our flesh now dies because of the actions of Adam. Nowhere does it say we are punished for Adam’s sin.

 

[usadingo]

You provide no scripture that says Jesus, or anyone else for that matter, has inherited sin. Please show me one verse that says we inherited sin from Adam. Yes sin entered into the world through the actions of Adam. Yes our flesh now dies because of the actions of Adam. Nowhere does it say we are punished for Adam’s sin.

I've been watching this game Composer is playing for a while now, and I think I can take a stab at what he'll say, if you don't mind.
See, it's all about repitition. He'll say, once again...
Romans 3:23- "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."
See, I know this because it's tattooed around a cross on my arm! (well, he won't say that part. That's true for me though.)
Anyway, he'll forget that the rest of the passage goes on to say "and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."
Composer will ignore that this verse seperates Jesus from "all those who have sinned."
It's funny. I remember being a kid in school, and one time the teacher yelled during recess "You are all in trouble. The Principle saw you!" I guess using Composer logic, the Principle was in trouble too since the teacher said we were all in trouble.
Just thought I'd throw my two cents in.

 

[Composer]

Composer responds: You can see from the above that you are wrong.

Tawhano wrote: Not at all, I can see from your response that you are wrong. You fail to prove that sin is inherited.

Composer responds: The Scriptures disagree with you Tawhano?

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Tawhano wrote: This verse does not say we inherited sin at all.

Composer responds: Read it again and then explain why you later contradict yourself?

. . . and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Tawhano wrote: Adam had no rules, save the one, to live by.

Composer responds: Make up your mind, if he had one rule then there were rules. You want 5 bob each way.

Tawhano wrote: Nothing was a sin at that time: there was no sin. Then Adam and Eve disobeyed God and ate of the fruit, which opened their eyes to good and evil, and sin entered into the world and the result of that action brought death to mankind.


Notice that God didn’t punish them with death but that death was the result of them partaking of the fruit.

Composer responds: Please read the Bible Tawhano, it disagrees with you. The punishment of death was given before they sinned - Proof: - But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. {thou shalt surely...: Heb. dying thou shalt die} (Gen. 2:17) KJS

Indeed Eve was also aware that the punishment was Death - Proof: -

But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. (Gen. 3: 3) KJS

So God surely did forewarn them that death would be brought against them if they disobeyed God's warning.

Tawhano wrote: God punished them by throwing them out of the garden, that was their punishment for disobeying Him.

Composer responds: You are wrong. Read again Gen. 2:17 KJS

Tawhano wrote: Sin was manifested when they ate of the fruit and that introduced sin to the world; not inherited as you claim.

No one is punished for the sins of Adam.

Composer responds: Here you go again, you then contradict yourself -

You wrote: Adam simply brought death to mankind as well as the knowledge of good and evil.

Composer responds: So you say that no one is punished for Adam's sins and then contradict yourself and say Adam DID bring death to mankind?

Tawhano wrote: The flesh is weak and therefore succumbs to sin.

Composer responds: Indeed flesh is now inherently weak, as a direct result of Adam's disobedience -

So now you agree that you were wrong?

Also Jesus' flesh was EXACTLY like our flesh as Rom. 8: 3 proves, -
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: {for sin: or, by a sacrifice for sin} (Rom. 8:3) KJS

Yet he did not weaken, Jesus did what no man has ever done and did what Adam failed to do. Jesus came to destroy that inherent weakness by DOING NO ADDED SINS and that is why he defeated the Devil, because the Devil is a metaphor for the inherent sins of the flesh.

Tawhano wrote: Matthew 26:41
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would

Again, I repeat, you failed to show that mankind has inherited sin. As with all of your other doctrines you only have one or two verses to support your claim and ignore all the others that clearly say you are wrong.

Composer responds: You agree that my Scriptures support me and then you claim that others do not?

You are therefore in error, because Scriptures DO NOT contradict themselves. Thus the conclusion is that it is your misrepresentation of those Scriptures that is at fault, because Scriptures DO NOT contradict themselves.

I say again, Scriptures DO NOT contradict themselves, you claim they do, that makes YOUR reasoning of them in error. My reasoning they all fit perfectly for Jesus DID no Sin but overcame his inherent sinful flesh that we ALL inherit from Adam's disobedience.

Composer Said:
Now read carefully "likeness" -

Strong's Concordance Renders: -
BDB/Thayers # 3667
3667 homoioma {hom-oy'-o-mah}
from 3666; TDNT - 5:191,684; n n
AV - likeness 3, made like to 1, similitude 1, shape 1; 6
1) that which has been made after the likeness of something
1a) a figure, image, likeness, representation
1b) likeness i.e. resemblance, such as amounts almost to equality or identity

NB. . . . resemblance, such as amounts almost to equality or identity

Tawhamo wrote: No, you read carefully: ALMOST to equality or identity. It means a representation of; resemblance of; NOT an exact copy.

Composer responds: I have given you the exact Strong's Concordance definition of "likeness" meaning "exactly like us, now you present your alleged definition that "likeness" means "not like us?"


Tawhano wrote: You said the Scriptures do not contradict one another so you explain how it is that you believe the scriptures say Jesus was sinful like us and yet the scriptures say He was without sin. You keep repeating that all have sinned and then say Jesus didn’t do any added sin. This is nonsense. The scriptures say all have sinned not that all have inherited sin. Big difference.

Composer responds: A baby at birth is born immediately with a sinful nature.

If a baby were born "without sin" then it would not die. For the wages of sin is death (Rom. 6:23) KJS

So if it was born inherently sinless then explain why babies die at birth when you claim they have no sin in them?

This is proved again by the Scriptures -

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: {for that: or, in whom} (Rom. 5:12) KJS

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (Rom. 3:23)



So explain how the scriptures contradict themselves under your interpretation.

Composer said:
You keep saying that Jesus DID NO SIN, which is absolutely true, but Jesus died for the sins of which he could not help and was born with as are ALL in the flesh born with as I have proved countless times and do so here again with all the scriptures I have presented.



Tawhano wrote: No you have proven nothing of the sort. All you have done is repeated your opinions countless times. You provide no scripture that says Jesus, or anyone else for that matter, has inherited sin. Please show me one verse that says we inherited sin from Adam. Yes sin entered into the world through the actions of Adam. Yes our flesh now dies because of the actions of Adam.

Nowhere does it say we are punished for Adam’s sin.

Composer responds: Once again the Scriptures contradict your claims Tawhano - Proof: -

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Rom. 5:12) KJS

So which man do you suggest was the cause of all mankind (including Jesus) inheriting Sin if it was NOT Adam as you claim?

 

[nephilimiyr]

It's funny. I remember being a kid in school, and one time the teacher yelled during recess "You are all in trouble. The Principle saw you!" I guess using Composer logic, the Principle was in trouble too since the teacher said we were all in trouble.
Just thought I'd throw my two cents in.

LOL, that was great! LOL!

But oh so true...

 

[serendipity79]

I believe that Jesus was real, but blown up to be something he wasn't. He was a man, and all men make mistakes.

what mistakes did jesus make?

 

[nephilimiyr]

composer, banned from the forums and I pray not banned from salvation.

I wash my hands of him!

Anything you'd like to add Tawhano?

 

[Tawhano]

What is it with that guy? The first thread I debating with him on was lost in the recent mishap. The second one was deleted (by him?) when he was banned. And now this one will fade away without any opposing thoughts. A bit like the Omen eh?