The Sinless Christian??

[tigersnare]

I am debating with a guy at my school, I can't believe what his responses are. Apprently this is where he is looking for his Theology, tell me what you guys think.

http://www.wonderfulgod.com/txt004.htm

 

[Bulldog]

I am debating with a guy at my school, I can't believe what his responses are. Apprently this is where he is looking for his Theology, tell me what you guys think.

http://www.wonderfulgod.com/txt004.htm

Does any Christian love God with all of his heart, soul, and mind all the time?

 

[Imblessed]

I am debating with a guy at my school, I can't believe what his responses are. Apprently this is where he is looking for his Theology, tell me what you guys think.

http://www.wonderfulgod.com/txt004.htm

Pauls writings in Romans 7:14-28 kind of prove that we christians cannot live a perfect, sinless life--which is why we thank God that He can deliver us, through Jesus Christ. Romans 8:9-11 captures this well I think.


I believe that all the talk of being "perfect" and "sinless" is subjective. If you notice, John speaks in Absolutes all throughout his writings, not because he only thinks in black and white, but because he is trying to make a point, and it's a lot easier to make a point if you speak in Absolutes.

 

[ClementofRome]

Even if one holds to a "pre-conversion" interpretation of Romans 7:14-28, perfectionism simply cannnot be supported biblically or empirically.

See BB Warfields massive work, Studies in Perfectionism!

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

If perfection could be attained and maintained, why would David (a man after God's own heart) write so many Psalms of fear that God has abandoned him? And why would he say in Psalm 23 that the Lord restores the soul?

The concept that a Christian can be fully sanctified in this lifetime is not new by any stretch of the imagination, and can ultimately only lead to despair.

 

[Antman_05]

Jesus Told ppl to go sin no more, so it must be possible, to come to a point where we are no longer sinning.

 

[tigersnare]

Jesus Told ppl to go sin no more, so it must be possible, to come to a point where we are no longer sinning.

Well let's be careful, the 5th century heretic Pelagius stood on his belief that God can not command something we can not do. I think he meant pre conversion, but I'd like to see what others think about this.

 

[Jon_]

Jesus Told ppl to go sin no more, so it must be possible, to come to a point where we are no longer sinning.

You're right! When we die.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Jon_]

When I read biblical passages talking about the perfection of the Christian and the sinlessness of believers, especially 1 John 3:5-9, I see them as not talking about our human nature, but about our union with Christ. It is by union with Christ that we are justified, made perfect, and attain sinlessness. The exact dynamics of this have been killing me lately, though. This is the precise theological/philosophical subject that I have been studying in detail. I honestly have no idea how we can been seen as sinless in Christ (even if spiritually) if we sin (even in the flesh).

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Antman_05]

(Joh 5:14) Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, "See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you."

is the scripture i'm talking about, i'm not saying that we can stop sinning, rather we need to allow the Holy Spirit to have have his way in us so we no longer sin.

Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Gal 5:24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

 

[JJB]

God the Father sees us as justified, because of Jesus and his covering of us!

Sinlessness is not within our grasp until we die.

Praise Jesus, our intercessor!

 

[mannysee]

regarding those references from Galatians, read a bit further on....."brothers, if any of you is caught in a transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted."

 

[5solas]

There is only one person who is without sin: Jesus Christ
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot be touched with the feelings of our infirmities, but was in all points tempted just as we are, yet without sin.

- for all others there is:

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.

 

[erin74]

I have heard this one before. One of our ministers once said he thinks just about every student in theological college believes in some kind of heresy at sometime during their time studying. Can't remember if this was his or a friend of his that believed sinlessness was possible. I think it was him - but he got over it!

The best thing my hubby recommends for this particular one is to go up to the guy and stand very very firmly on one of his feet and wait for his response! But that may be a little cruel.

 

[Imblessed]

I have heard this one before. One of our ministers once said he thinks just about every student in theological college believes in some kind of heresy at sometime during their time studying. Can't remember if this was his or a friend of his that believed sinlessness was possible. I think it was him - but he got over it!

The best thing my hubby recommends for this particular one is to go up to the guy and stand very very firmly on one of his feet and wait for his response! But that may be a little cruel.

That's good! LOL

I've heard there were some people who truly believe we can achieve sinlessness. I think that would be called DENIAL!

 

[oworm]

Ive heard one renowned preacher (who i respect!)suggest that we can go for hours or even days without sin! I would reject this though. Even our own hearts can decieve us. Its apparent to me when i pray and have to look for sins to confess. How decietfull is that lol?

 

[seekingpurity047]

Well... obviously the text is wrong in their interpretation of scripture. Nobody is sinless but Jesus Christ who died on the cross for us. And, i think when they brought up the whole question about righteousness, they forget a very important thing about the subject. We are made righteous by our faith in God, not by our works, or by the sins we "didn't" do. How was abraham saved? By faith. How was Isaiah saved? By faith. How was david saved and made righteous, by faith. Simple answers. Clears everything up.

 

[Imblessed]

Well... obviously the text is wrong in their interpretation of scripture. Nobody is sinless but Jesus Christ who died on the cross for us. And, i think when they brought up the whole question about righteousness, they forget a very important thing about the subject. We are made righteous by our faith in God, not by our works, or by the sins we "didn't" do. How was abraham saved? By faith. How was Isaiah saved? By faith. How was david saved and made righteous, by faith. Simple answers. Clears everything up.

Amen!

 

[5solas]

Well... obviously the text is wrong in their interpretation of scripture. Nobody is sinless but Jesus Christ who died on the cross for us. And, i think when they brought up the whole question about righteousness, they forget a very important thing about the subject. We are made righteous by our faith in God, not by our works, or by the sins we "didn't" do. How was abraham saved? By faith. How was Isaiah saved? By faith. How was david saved and made righteous, by faith. Simple answers. Clears everything up.

Are we really made righteous by our faith in God? Are we really saved by faith?

Or - as I understand it: I was made righteous by God through faith. I was saved by Christ through faith.

Wordplays?

 

[tigersnare]

Are we really made righteous by our faith in God? Are we really saved by faith?

Or - as I understand it: I was made righteous by God through faith. I was saved by Christ through faith.

Wordplays?

Ooo Ooo I want to play!

We are made rigtheous through faith, not on account of faith