The Sin Gene

[Willtor]

Paul most certainly was. I suppose Paul wasn't talking about physical sin either.

Secondly there is no contradiction.

"Physical" sin? Are you making stuff up, now?

Of course there's a contradiction. There was already physical death before the fall. Therefore, if Paul was talking about physical death, that's a contradiction.

 

[ewq1938]

Paul said sin and death entered at the fall. You disagree. You say Paul was wrong.

Spiritual death entered at the fall not physical death. Adam and Eve were mortals and mortals will die regardless of sin.

 

[-57]

"Physical" sin? Are you making stuff up, now?

Of course there's a contradiction. There was already physical death before the fall. Therefore, if Paul was talking about physical death, that's a contradiction.

Wiltor, the bible doesn't teach physical death to man prior to the fall. It's not there. Now, if you have a chapter and verse that disagrees with me...lets see it.

 

[-57]

Spiritual death entered at the fall not physical death. Adam and Eve were mortals and mortals will die regardless of sin.

Will christians be mortals after the resurrection?

 

[Willtor]

Wiltor, the bible doesn't teach physical death to man prior to the fall. It's not there. Now, if you have a chapter and verse that disagrees with me...lets see it.

Unless the "Tree of Life" is badly named, there was death before the fall.

 

[ewq1938]

Will christians be mortals after the resurrection?

No. The saved are resurrected to immortality:

1Co_15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[-57]

Unless the "Tree of Life" is badly named, there was death before the fall.

Why would the tree of life indicate there was death to mankind prior to the fall?

Once again I must ask....Wiltor, the bible doesn't teach physical death to man prior to the fall. It's not there. Now, if you have a chapter and verse that disagrees with me...lets see it.

 

[Willtor]

Why would the tree of life indicate there was death to mankind prior to the fall?

Because without it, Adam and Even would die. The Tree of Life was there to keep them alive.

Once again I must ask....Wiltor, the bible doesn't teach physical death to man prior to the fall. It's not there. Now, if you have a chapter and verse that disagrees with me...lets see it.

Two "ell's" in Willtor, thanks.

Every verse that mentions the Tree of Life.

 

[-57]

Because without it, Adam and Even would die. The Tree of Life was there to keep them alive.



Two "ell's" in Willtor, thanks.

Every verse that mentions the Tree of Life.

Gen 3:19 shows mans death was established as a result of the fall.
By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

 

[Willtor]

Gen 3:19 shows mans death was established as a result of the fall.
By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

This was accomplished by restricting access to the Tree of Life, without which they were going to die, physically:

"Then the Lord God said, ‘See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever’— therefore the LordGod sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a sword flaming and turning to guard the way to the tree of life."
(Genesis 3:22-24, NRSV)

Without the Tree of Life, they weren't going to live forever, physically. That's the point of the Tree of Life in the story.

 

[-57]

This was accomplished by restricting access to the Tree of Life, without which they were going to die, physically:

"Then the Lord God said, ‘See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever’— therefore the LordGod sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a sword flaming and turning to guard the way to the tree of life."
(Genesis 3:22-24, NRSV)

Without the Tree of Life, they weren't going to live forever, physically. That's the point of the Tree of Life in the story.

Death was part of the curse God put on man. As pointed out above in Gen 3:19. Guess what Adam? I made you from the dust, now you'll die and go back to the dust.

After the resurrection all christians will be alive physically..with immortality. Like pre-fallen Adam and Eve we will not have the ability to die.

 

[Willtor]

Death was part of the curse God put on man. As pointed out above in Gen 3:19. Guess what Adam? I made you from the dust, now you'll die and go back to the dust.

After the resurrection all christians will be alive physically..with immortality. Like pre-fallen Adam and Eve we will not have the ability to die.

(emphasis mine)

I was with you up until that last part. If you take the Adam and Eve story literally, they were created with mortality -- death was only kept at bay by way of access to the (aptly-called) Tree of Life. If you take it figuratively, this makes complete sense since the Tree of Life is a figure for the Word. But if you take it literally, Adam and Eve were created mortal.

 

[-57]

(emphasis mine)

I was with you up until that last part. If you take the Adam and Eve story literally, they were created with mortality -- death was only kept at bay by way of access to the (aptly-called) Tree of Life. If you take it figuratively, this makes complete sense since the Tree of Life is a figure for the Word. But if you take it literally, Adam and Eve were created mortal.

Adam and Eve were created to be immortal. They failed and through Adam all people fail and now die physically. Christ followers will one day have this original immortality restored to them.

If Adam succeeded in his prohibition and didn't eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil Adam and Eve would still be alive. The man without the belly button would be Adam.

 

[Willtor]

Adam and Eve were created to be immortal. They failed and through Adam all people fail and now die physically. Christ followers will one day have this original immortality restored to them.

If Adam succeeded in his prohibition and didn't eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil Adam and Eve would still be alive. The man without the belly button would be Adam.

I see. And the prohibition against eating from the Tree of Life was for some reason other than that it was making them immortal. Okay.

 

[-57]

I see. And the prohibition against eating from the Tree of Life was for some reason other than that it was making them immortal. Okay.

??????? That made no sense.

 

[Willtor]

??????? That made no sense.

What was the purpose of the Tree of Life? Was it to bestow immortality? What does God say about it?

 

[-57]

What was the purpose of the Tree of Life? Was it to bestow immortality? What does God say about it?

A purpose of the tree of life was to show trust in Gods promises by eating from the proper tree rather than the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Some contend that the tree was a physical means of conducting a spiritual transaction, the very essence of a sacrament. Immortality was the gift to anyone who regularly ate the fruit of the tree.

 

[Willtor]

A purpose of the tree of life was to show trust in Gods promises by eating from the proper tree rather than the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Some contend that the tree was a physical means of conducting a spiritual transaction, the very essence of a sacrament. Immortality was the gift to anyone who regularly ate the fruit of the tree.

(emphasis mine)

What would have happened if Adam and Eve had abstained from the fruit of that tree before the fall?

 

[-57]

(emphasis mine)

What would have happened if Adam and Eve had abstained from the fruit of that tree before the fall?

If Adam and Eve didn't eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil they would still be alive today.

 

[ewq1938]

Why would the tree of life indicate there was death to mankind prior to the fall?

Because something that gives life means there is death that it is countering.