The sign of the Cross/ Spiritual Weapon or attention getter?

[Fidelibus]

I dont do cross signs but i bear my cross.

Again,,, I believe the words from St. Cyril of Jerusalem are in order here.

"Let us, therefore, not be ashamed of the Cross of Christ; but though another hide it, do thou openly seal it upon thy forehead, that the devils may behold the royal sign and flee trembling far away. Make then this sign at eating and drinking, at sitting, at lying down, at rising up, at speaking, at walking: in a word, at every act."

 

[Major1]

But. the question remains maj1...... Are we to take your comments as absolute and without error? Yes or no?



Amen to that! I am constantly in line for Confession before Mass!

My "opinions" are just like yours and everyone else's. They are always open to error and who among us would ever say that his/her comments are absolutely without error.

I do realize that you are always trying to set "traps" by attempting to get others to admitt to something that is not defendable. Honestly, that is a very poor way to debate the differences in our theology. This is about the 5th or 6th time youha veat tempted to do this.

If I say YES then you will say......"How arrogant of you".
If I say NO then you will say......."See, you do not know what you are talking about".

Lets be clear here.......comments based on the Word of God are NOT my opinions but are Rooted and verified by the Scriptures themselves.

 

[Major1]

Sorry......"Chronological Snobbery" isn't a phrase I came up with, that came from Mr.
C. S. Lewis
However, I know...... Early Christian history is not your friend, but where in scripture does it say we are to find this "Truth of God's Word"? (hint:1Tim.3:15.)

I am having to answer way too many basic Bible questions for you. Some of these things you ask YOU should be doing the work to find out for yourself and not relying on me to so it for you.

John 8:32 ....................
"And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

John 14:6............
"Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

2 Tim. 2:15............
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

Matt. 7:7..............
“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

John 17:17...........
Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

2 Cor. 4:4..............
In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Matt. 21:22............
"And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”

1 Cor. 3:18..........
"Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise."

 

[Major1]

Sorry......"Chronological Snobbery" isn't a phrase I came up with, that came from Mr.
C. S. Lewis
However, I know...... Early Christian history is not your friend, but where in scripture does it say we are to find this "Truth of God's Word"? (hint:1Tim.3:15.)

I am having to answer way too many basic Bible questions for you. Some of these things you ask YOU should be doing the work to find out for yourself and not relying on me to so it for you.

John 8:32 ....................
"And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

John 14:6............
"Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

2 Tim. 2:15............
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

Matt. 7:7..............
“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

John 17:17...........
Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

2 Cor. 4:4..............
In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Matt. 21:22............
"And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”

1 Cor. 3:18..........
"Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise."

Say's who?



How do you figure? In what way did I "add' to scripture by quoting Jn.20:30-31?



I can respect "your opinion" Maj1, but why should I beleive your fifty year old (approx) opinion as absolute and without error, over the teachings of the two thousand plus years teachings of the Catholic Church?




For the life of me, why do you keep putting limitations on our fight against Satan? Just because 'you' can't seem to find it in the bible? Good Grief!! Even some of your own non-Catholics find your argument........... a bit extreme.

Please, for about the 5th time........DO NOT BELIEVE ME. DO NOT ACCEPT WHAT I SAY TO YOU.

YOU go and do the study. YOU go and read the books. YOU go and investigate something other that Catholic web sites.

 

[Major1]

IF YOU do then why are you confused with what the Bible says?????

IF you do, why then do you ask such basic Bible question?

IF you do, why then do you reject the Bible and do what the RCC tells you to do?

Since you study the Bible by your own admission please give us all the Scriptures which say............

1). Mary had NO sin.
2). Mary was assumed into heaven.
3). Mary was a perpetual virgin.
4). The Rosary.
5). The veneration of Mary.
6). Calling a bishop "Father".
7). The doctrine of Bishops not being allowed to marry.

That is just seven of probably more than 30 things that YOU do as a Catholic.

Now, post the Scriptures where each one of them is found in the Bible.

 

[Fidelibus]

My "opinions" are just like yours and everyone else's. They are always open to error and who among us would ever say that his/her comments are absolutely without error.

So we can be rest assured Maj1, that in your future posts, you won't accuse others that their understanding/ interpretation of Scripture is incorrect just because you don't agree with it.... right? Like...... "Sorry my friend, but you are wrong about that passage, because what it's really saying is..........."

We'll see.

I do realize that you are always trying to set "traps" by attempting to get others to admitt to something that is not defendable.

Ha..ha. Not setting any "traps", just trying to keep you honest.

This is about the 5th or 6th time youha veat tempted to do this.

Then what took you so long?

If I say YES then you will say......"How arrogant of you".
If I say NO then you will say......."See, you do not know what you are talking about"

How do you know this? .

Lets be clear here.......comments based on the Word of God are NOT my opinions but are Rooted and verified by the Scriptures themselves.

I know it's a difficult question for non-Catholics to answer, but it has not yet been answered, so I ask again..... If two non-Catholics disagree on the meaning of a certain bible passage, to what authority would they turn too that would decide whom of the two are correct, and whom is in error?

 

[Fidelibus]

I am having to answer way too many basic Bible questions for you. Some of these things you ask YOU should be doing the work to find out for yourself and not relying on me to so it for you.

Sorry Maj1, but not one of these bible verses you posted, Jn.8:32;14:6;17:17, Matt.7:7;21:22, 2Cor.4:4,1Cor.3:18.2Tim.2:15 answered the question I asked....... What I asked was ...."where in scripture does it say we are to "FIND" this "Truth of God's Word"?

Some scripture passages you left out are:

1 Timothy 3: 15: "if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth."

Matt. 18:17: "If he refuses to listen to them, 'tell the church'.. If he refuses to listen even to 'the church', then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.

Please, for about the 5th time........DO NOT BELIEVE ME. DO NOT ACCEPT WHAT I SAY TO YOU.

Okay

YOU go and do the study.

I do!

YOU go and read the books.

I will!

YOU go and investigate something other that Catholic web sites.

Sorry Maj, don't quite understand this one.

 

[Fidelibus]

IF YOU do then why are you confused with what the Bible says?????

IF you do, why then do you ask such basic Bible question?

IF you do, why then do you reject the Bible and do what the RCC tells you to do?

Since you study the Bible by your own admission please give us all the Scriptures which say............

1). Mary had NO sin.
2). Mary was assumed into heaven.
3). Mary was a perpetual virgin.
4). The Rosary.
5). The veneration of Mary.
6). Calling a bishop "Father".
7). The doctrine of Bishops not being allowed to marry.

That is just seven of probably more than 30 things that YOU do as a Catholic.

Now, post the Scriptures where each one of them is found in the Bible.

With all due respect Maj1, but why are you always trying to de-rail my thread? Sheesh!!

If you want to discuss these subjects, start a new thread on each one separately, and I would be more than happy to discuss them with you. Until then, please try to stay on this topic of the "sign of the cross."

Thanks!

 

[Major1]

Sorry Maj1, but not one of these bible verses you posted, Jn.8:32;14:6;17:17, Matt.7:7;21:22, 2Cor.4:4,1Cor.3:18.2Tim.2:15 answered the question I asked....... What I asked was ...."where in scripture does it say we are to "FIND" this "Truth of God's Word"?

Some scripture passages you left out are:

1 Timothy 3: 15: "if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth."

Matt. 18:17: "If he refuses to listen to them, 'tell the church'.. If he refuses to listen even to 'the church', then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.




Okay



I do!



I will!



Sorry Maj, don't quite understand this one.

IMO you are playing Word Games. You asked......
...."where in scripture does it say we are to "FIND" this "Truth of God's Word"?

The Scriptures tell you about the truth of God's Word and God gives YOU two things in order to help you understand that.

Your Brain.
The Holy Spirit.

You want to know "where in Scripture does it say we are to "FIND" this truth of God's Word but the word Catholic is not found in the Bible is it?

You are a Catholic but where in the Bible do we find that word.

We find the truth of God's Word when we read the Bible. We read the Bible and God speaks to us through it.

There can be no doubt that the Bible does claim to be the very Word of God. This is clearly seen in Paul’s commendation to Timothy: “… from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” as recorded in 2 Timothy 3:15-17.

John 17:17 ...........
"Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth."

John 8:32...............
"And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

 

[Major1]

With all due respect Maj1, but why are you always trying to de-rail my thread? Sheesh!!

If you want to discuss these subjects, start a new thread on each one separately, and I would be more than happy to discuss them with you. Until then, please try to stay on this topic of the "sign of the cross."

Thanks!

I know you are kidding me.

Who said............."Chronological Snobbery"?

Who said............" Sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture, and the Magisterium. Ever hear the analogy of the three-legged stool?

Who said............."First off, I no longer limit myself to the unbiblical doctrine of sola scriptura."

Who said.............." Are we to take your comments as absolute and without error? Yes or no?"

What has any of those statements have to do with "Sign of the cross". You accuse me of derailing your thread when YOU are the one asking questions like "Are we to take your comments as absolute and without error? Yes or no?"

Which had NOTHING to do with your opening post and had every thing to do with playing games to try and get us to say something you could try and twist for your own comfort.

And right here is the proof in comment #166............

You said....
"So we can be rest assured Maj1, that in your future posts, you won't accuse others that their understanding/ interpretation of Scripture is incorrect just because you don't agree with it.... right? Like...... "Sorry my friend, but you are wrong about that passage, because what it's really saying is..........."

We'll see.


Major said.........
I do realize that you are always trying to set "traps" by attempting to get others to admitt to something that is not defendable.

You said........
Ha..ha. Not setting any "traps", just trying to keep you honest."

No sir, you are not being honest in any way. Most all of us see what you are trying to do and the word you are trying hard not to us is......."Deceitful".

I have NEVER ever said that anyone should listen to me or believe me in anything. YOU SAID THAT NOT ME. I have said the opposite.

Now you have a wonderful day, week and life because I just am not going to play these games.

 

[Fidelibus]

Now you have a wonderful day, week and life because I just am not going to play these games.

Does this mean you will not be starting new threads regarding.....

1). Mary had NO sin.
2). Mary was assumed into heaven.
3). Mary was a perpetual virgin.
4). The Rosary.
5). The veneration of Mary.
6). Calling a bishop "Father".
7). The doctrine of Bishops not being allowed to marry.

for us to discuss? I hope not, I was so looking forward to it.

 

[Fidelibus]

Before converting to the Catholic Church, I remember having Thanksgiving dinner at my relatives houses that were Catholic, or dinner with Catholic friends whereas , before dinner (even in public) they would make the sign of the cross. At the time, I would feel uncomfortable when they did it, and would only bow my head. After looking back, back, the reason I didn't "cross myself" is because I didn't want others in the resturant to think I was Catholic.

So I would like to ask those non-Catholics that don't make the sign of the cross, (and those like myself that now do) Could it be you don't or didn't is because you don't/didn't want to be mistaken for one of “them?” (Catholic) In other words..... You have/had that “guilt by association” thing going?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

May I politely post?
While I understand how making the sign of the cross "grounds" you in prayer, it does call attention to you quite sharply. I'm not saying that is good nor bad, I'm just suggesting that it's fact. It would be the "only" in the woman's comment with which I disagree.

I'm sure there is Scripture on all sides showing how it's okay or not... very interested in reading the pondered comments here, thanks!

If that is what one wants; it can also be a strong witness to faith in Christ.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I suspect the real issue for the woman mentioned in the OP was not so much about the sign of the cross but a negative bias toward the Catholic Church, as is present in many evangelical protestant quarters (and even christianforums.com -- Have you read any "harlot of Babylon" posts lately?).

She is not well-informed enough to know the sign of the cross is an ancient tradition and practice from the earliest days of Christianity, nor does she know that it is practiced outside of the Church of Rome by Orthodox, Anglican, & other Christians. She also appears to be unfamiliar with Matthew 10:32 -33 or Luke 12:8.

In my travels, I seem to be seeing more mainline Protestants adopting the sign of the cross all the time.

Well stated, many Lutherans, myself included, do so.

 

[Tutorman]

I make the sign of the Cross when I pray blessings for my meal all the time.