The shaking

[OntheDL]

So you believe that the parable of the wheat and the tares refer to healthy living issues? I won't argue with you about science, but my question was about Biblical references to these issues.

Make sense?

Annie

We know we are living in the last days. And we also know in the end there shall be plagues and pestilence. The health message for the end times has a special urgency. We are not calling anything sinful. However if you believe the health message was given by God to help us prepare for the coming endtime events, but we can not follow before we LOVE certain food, it then becomes an issue of who and what is really important in our lives. Almost every we like to eat is not healthy for us.

 

[maco]

Do you know what happens when you play country music backwards?

You get your house back, your wife back and your dog back...

 

[TrustAndObey]

The bible specifically talks about a separation of goats and sheep, wheat and tares, etc.

I see a separation in lots of churches, where a lot of the people want to bring in an "anything goes" policy. I see it more in the Adventist church because that's the one I attend. I don't think we're special in that regard at all, although it's highlighted here because we're Adventists.

Baptized paganism has never worked. In fact, it compromises the Word of God, and there's no nice way to say that.

Matt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

I could fill up a whole thread about the dangers of refined sugar, because it's along the lines of what I'm studying these days for sure.

There's a lot of scripture against adornment (jewelry) and as far as the clean meats go....I really wish I could get my friend Todd to step into this forum for a little while. He is an expert on this issue and I can't do his work any justice here for sure.

E.coli H0157 (large amounts) is being found in clean meats, salmonella too, etc. The WAY our "food" is raised and slaughtered isn't biblical. By the time we get it in a grocery store, it's already at the "carcass" stage.

Really the only way to insure that we're eating a biblically clean meat is to raise it and slaughter it ourselves (I'm gonna say no thanks on that one).

The animals we eat are in such bad shape right now, that even their feces (used as fertilizer) is spreading the same diseases on our vegetables. Basically the only way to insure we're eating healthy is to thoroughly cleanse our vegetables or raise them ourselves (and most people don't have time to raise them themselves....but my dad just bought me three tomato plants )

We've really hurt this earth in so many ways.

As a Christian, I know that I am protected by God, but I don't go jump around in traffic either. I have a duty to my Creator to take care of what He has given me.

I certainly don't always do it, that's for sure, but I am trying.

There are people in my church that glow with health, and it's a lot easier to see Christ when you see someone like that. Someone that I'm sure would love to eat hot fudge sundaes all the time, but doesn't do it because they want to be thin and healthy, and a better witness to the healing power of God's earth.

FreeIndeed made a comment about overweight people (he was specifically talking about Adventists) and how that isn't right and we shouldn't accept it.

There's a whole thread on fat christians in GT and it has raised some tail feathers for sure. But really, if there's not a medical reason for someone being overweight, is it becoming of a Christian to be obese? Is it a sign of weakness for food, where others might have the same weakness for alcohol?

Is overindulgence of any kind sinful? No matter what it is?

Would you listen to someone about dying to ourselves, if they have a cigarette in their mouth (obviously something Christ wouldn't do) or have fat falling off their bodies?

Would you take them seriously about it not being about US anymore when we accept Christ, if they obviously have some things they are addicted to or just enjoy too much to give up?

I'm not pointing my statements specifically at anyone (well, maybe myself), it's a serious question.

 

[maco]

The bible specifically talks about a separation of goats and sheep, wheat and tares, etc.

I see a separation in lots of churches, where a lot of the people want to bring in an "anything goes" policy. I see it more in the Adventist church because that's the one I attend. I don't think we're special in that regard at all, although it's highlighted here because we're Adventists.

Baptized paganism has never worked. In fact, it compromises the Word of God, and there's no nice way to say that.

Matt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

I could fill up a whole thread about the dangers of refined sugar, because it's along the lines of what I'm studying these days for sure.

There's a lot of scripture against adornment (jewelry) and as far as the clean meats go....I really wish I could get my friend Todd to step into this forum for a little while. He is an expert on this issue and I can't do his work any justice here for sure.

E.coli H0157 (large amounts) is being found in clean meats, salmonella too, etc. The WAY our "food" is raised and slaughtered isn't biblical. By the time we get it in a grocery store, it's already at the "carcass" stage.

Really the only way to insure that we're eating a biblically clean meat is to raise it and slaughter it ourselves (I'm gonna say no thanks on that one).

The animals we eat are in such bad shape right now, that even their feces (used as fertilizer) is spreading the same diseases on our vegetables. Basically the only way to insure we're eating healthy is to thoroughly cleanse our vegetables or raise them ourselves (and most people don't have time to raise them themselves....but my dad just bought me three tomato plants )

We've really hurt this earth in so many ways.

As a Christian, I know that I am protected by God, but I don't go jump around in traffic either. I have a duty to my Creator to take care of what He has given me.

I certainly don't always do it, that's for sure, but I am trying.

There are people in my church that glow with health, and it's a lot easier to see Christ when you see someone like that. Someone that I'm sure would love to eat hot fudge sundaes all the time, but doesn't do it because they want to be thin and healthy, and a better witness to the healing power of God's earth.

FreeIndeed made a comment about overweight people (he was specifically talking about Adventists) and how that isn't right and we shouldn't accept it.

There's a whole thread on fat christians in GT and it has raised some tail feathers for sure. But really, if there's not a medical reason for someone being overweight, is it becoming of a Christian to be obese? Is it a sign of weakness for food, where others might have the same weakness for alcohol?

Is overindulgence of any kind sinful? No matter what it is?

Would you listen to someone about dying to ourselves, if they have a cigarette in their mouth (obviously something Christ wouldn't do) or have fat falling off their bodies?

Would you take them seriously about it not being about US anymore when we accept Christ, if they obviously have some things they are addicted to or just enjoy too much to give up?

I'm not pointing my statements specifically at anyone (well, maybe myself), it's a serious question.

That was a very good post and packed with common sense. I guess you really are a common sense kind of Gal!

 

[TrustAndObey]

The was a very good post and packed with common sense. I guess you really are a common sense kind of Gal!

RUMORS AND LIES!

Bwhahahaha.

 

[maco]

RUMORS AND LIES!

Bwhahahaha.

No, not rumors and lies. See for yourself...

TrustAndObey
Common sense kind of gal! <----------

 

[TrustAndObey]

No, not rumors and lies. See for yourself...

TrustAndObey
Common sense kind of gal! <----------

Oh yeah. THAT.

 

[TrustAndObey]

I really do wish I could get my friend Todd to step in here and discuss the biblical way to raise and slaughter clean meats.

He's outstanding in conveying how our slaughter houses don't kill the animals in the biblical way.

We aren't just eating meat anymore. We're eating hormones and infections. A lot of the animals earmarked for slaughter are dying of cancer or some other disease.

You are what you eat.

 

[TrustAndObey]

PS...I don't normally recommend books that will make you throw up, but if you haven't read "Fast Food Nation", I highly recommend it.

It talks about why this country is so unhealthy and the inhumane way animals are treated to produce as much meat as this country demands.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Here's an interesting site I found while researching Dr. Semmelweiss (it's spelled with one s on the site). We're studying some of his work in my Microbiology class.

http://www.newhope.bc.ca/98-01-11.htm

Someone asked me once in GT if there had ever been a time when the bible proved science wrong (instead of the other way around). I gave other examples, but this would've been a good one too.

In my Micro textbook, there's documentation that doctors believed their patients became sick from sin, not bacteria.

(This is a little off-topic from the original OP, but still relative).

 

[JonMiller]

God also gave us our minds, and expects us to use them. To disregard the science (in particular medical) that He has blessed us with is foolish.

JM

 

[annie1speed]

As I said earlier, I won't argue with you about scientific data, or common sense; I was asking about Bible verses. My question is basically if you read the Bible only, would you come to these conclusions?

Annie

 

[TrustAndObey]

As I said earlier, I won't argue with you about scientific data, or common sense; I was asking about Bible verses. My question is basically if you read the Bible only, would you come to these conclusions?

Annie

Who are you asking this question to?

 

[annie1speed]

I guess whoever will answer it. I have asked it more than once in the thread. On the DL quoted it, but gave no verses.

Thanks,

Annie

 

[TrustAndObey]

As I said earlier, I won't argue with you about scientific data, or common sense; I was asking about Bible verses. My question is basically if you read the Bible only, would you come to these conclusions?

Annie

The bible makes it clear that we should USE common sense though, right? Discernment.

If we use it to come to certain conclusions, then it is biblical. Line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little.....

I guess whoever will answer it. I have asked it more than once in the thread. On the DL quoted it, but gave no verses.

Thanks,

Annie

Okay, I'm doing laundry and cleaning, so I'll just approach one thing at a time if that's okay.

Thou shalt not visit a movie theater

Now obviously Maco's quote ISN'T biblical. The bible doesn't say that, and we all know it. Just like the bible doesn't come right out and say "don't get addicted to heroine", but we all know it's a bad thing to do and not something God would approve of.

What the bible does say are things like these:

Psalm 101:3 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes; I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.

For me, personally, that&#8217;s one of the verses that made me quit going to the movies, and I watch two shows on television (two home improvement shows), that&#8217;s it.

Think about the type of movies being shown in theaters. Let&#8217;s see....an ax-wielding guy in a hockey mask that terrorized young people having sex. The guy was killed repeatedly, but just kept coming back, so really he was an ax-wielding ghost I guess. That&#8217;s about as unbiblical as you can get.

My favorite movie was Bridges of Madison County (before I became a Christian). That whole movie was about a woman having an affair on her husband while he was out of town, a true story.

Oh...and Brokeback Mountain. It&#8217;s about two homosexual cowboys that have sex and later fall in love and sneak behind their wives' backs to have sex once a year (or something like that).

The Passion of the Christ is about the only movie that I&#8217;ve seen in the last decade that glorified God, but there were parts of it that you won&#8217;t find in scripture anywhere.

Premarital sex, profanity, nudity, adultery, murder....you name it, it's where the money is at in Hollywood. The movies I've seen romanticize sin. They definitely make it seem appealing.

The actor in "The Passion" obviously wasn't Christ, but did you know that some people stalked him afterwards trying to get HIM to "save" them. Him, (Jim Caviezel) not Christ.

There was a movie out a few years ago called &#8220;White Noise&#8221; I think, where a dead wife communicated with her husband through a television. That was supposed to be a true story. Familiar spirits.........

Really, in essence, isn&#8217;t acting a lie? Aren&#8217;t the actors trying to convince people that they&#8217;re someone they&#8217;re not? Jim Caviezel, in my opinion, made himself equal with God (blasphemy) in that movie. He spoke the words of Christ as if he were Christ. That really bothers me personally, but others may not have an issue with it.

Add the messages of these movies to the fact that young people tend to idolize the beautiful people on the screen, and it&#8217;s just bad news. Ask the teens in this country who they'd most like to be like, and I'm positive that very few of them would say "Christ."

There's tons of scripture about what comes out of our mouths (I can look them up if you want). Good luck finding a movie these days that doesn't have profanity in it, or sexual innuendo of some sort. As this world declines in morals, so will the type of movies that are available.

If we go to the movies, aren't we supporting an industry that distracts from God with a message that sin is okay?

 

[TrustAndObey]

HA! I should've put that post in the "this whole theater thing...." thread, huh?

 

[TrustAndObey]

Thou shall not wear jewelry

I did a wonderful bible study on this subject (not an Advenitst study) that totally convinced me, with scripture, that I shouldn't wear adornment. That's saying something because I was one of those girls that wore 10 Swatch watches on each wrist when I was a teen (in the 80s).

I'm having trouble finding it.

Here's a few verses until I do find it:

1 Tim 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

James 2:2 talks about a poor man wearing dirty clothing, and then of a rich man having a gold ring and goodly apparel.

3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

Jewelry was a sign of status then just like it is now. It's prideful.

There are instances of God giving people adornment, but it came from God Himself. Again, as reward or status. Buying it ourselves and wearing it, is sending out a message that we're worthy of other's respect and of riches.

I'm waiting for my crown.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Pro 20:15 There is gold, and a multitude of rubies: but the lips of knowledge are a precious jewel.

 

[maco]

I did a wonderful bible study on this subject (not an Advenitst study) that totally convinced me, with scripture, that I shouldn't wear adornment. That's saying something because I was one of those girls that wore 10 Swatch watches on each wrist when I was a teen (in the 80s).

I'm having trouble finding it.

Here's a few verses until I do find it:

1 Tim 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

James 2:2 talks about a poor man wearing dirty clothing, and then of a rich man having a gold ring and goodly apparel.

3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

Jewelry was a sign of status then just like it is now. It's prideful.

There are instances of God giving people adornment, but it came from God Himself. Again, as reward or status. Buying it ourselves and wearing it, is sending out a message that we're worthy of other's respect and of riches.

I'm waiting for my crown.

What I read here is typical of the SDA church. It's all man/woman made injections of false assumptions and misinterpreted verses.

1 Timothy 2:9 in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing,

All this verse is saying is to not let only outward beauty be where your beauty comes from, but rather, let your beauty come from the inside also.

Let me give you an example.

A guy wants to be manly so he goes out and buys a pickup truck because he believes that what he drives will make him a man. Is it sinful to drive a pickup truck? Of course its not.

All God is saying is don't let only these outward things be who you are. Be who you are based on the inward also.

Let me give you another example. This just happened the other day. I had this same discussion with an elder in my church regarding jewelry. He spoke against it and said it was worldly but then that same elder's wife came to church with braided hair. His response was that the verse was takling about jewelry. Do you see the dangers of planting false seeds into the minds of people?

 

[TrustAndObey]

What I read here is typical of the SDA church. It's all man/woman made injections of false assumptions and misinterpreted verses.

Typical of the SDA church? Aren't you a member?

That's kind of like me saying "That's typical of women" when I AM one.

All this verse is saying is to not let only outward beauty be where your beauty comes from, but rather, let your beauty come from the inside also.

Also? Is that what the verse said?

The verse specifically talks about adorning oneself. Symbolically the bible talks about adorning ourselves with knowledge instead of jewelry.

Let me give you an example.

A guy wants to be manly so he goes out and buys a pickup truck because he believes that what he drives will make him a man. Is it sinful to drive a pickup truck? Of course its not.

Considering he's already a man, I don't think it's a good example really.

All God is saying is don't let only these outward things be who you are. Be who you are based on the inward also.

Also? There's that word again. Is that really what the verse said? Wouldn't the word "instead" work better there?

Let me give you another example. This just happened the other day. I had this same discussion with an elder in my church regarding jewelry. He spoke against it and said it was worldly but then that same elder's wife came to church with braided hair. His response was that the verse was takling about jewelry. Do you see the dangers of planting false seeds into the minds of people?

I'm waiting for my crown Maco. It's all the adornment I need, that and knowledge. I don't deserve riches, I haven't received my reward yet.