the self replicating watch argument

[xianghua]

Evolution came about via scientific observation and does not require faith.

are you saying there is no faith in believing that dog and banana are related?

 

[Colter]

are you saying there is no faith in believing that dog and banana are related?

Not faith, just common sense. Life is related to life.

 

[truefiction1]

If we can't see, hear, feel, smell, and taste the evidence of our Divine Creator, then we just don't want to badly enough -- because the evidence is here, all around. To those whose desire it is to believe, He gives enough light to recognize His presence. To those whose hearts desire not to believe, He allows enough darkness so they don't have to. Freewill in human beings could not exist otherwise. Faith, in part, involves exercise of the will. Belief and unbelief is rooted in the heart. For this reason, scientific evidences and arguments can neither prove nor disprove God.

I know that there is an overwhelming body of evidence to support the biological theory of evolution, and see no need to deny it as an explanation of species origins. I know that the Holy Trinity is, and creates us and interacts with us, because of the overwhelming body of evidence personally shown me. It wouldn't be enough for me to tell anyone of this evidence, or even to show them. Unless they want to come into the light, it will be of no effect: and I have plenty of evidence also to know that this is true as well, because I've tried this and they still won't believe. The love of this world hardens the heart, darkening the eye of the soul, causing blindness and forgetfulness of the Truth.

Christ is Risen! Indeed He is Risen!

 

[DogmaHunter]

Why would it matter to you, since you believe in your religion regardless of evidence?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Say what?? How would you know?

It doesn't consist of flood sediments.

Ah, now we see why you are opinionated...your religion is rigid.

No. That's a conclusion from the actual evidence.

My beliefs are wonderfully adaptive.

They sure are. They adapt to Last Thursday all the time.

I have looked at all reality, evidences, science facts, history and the bible, and tried to be open minded and accept as much as possible.

To quote Professor Dawkins: your mind seems to be SO open, that your brains are falling out.

 

[DogmaHunter]

are you saying there is no faith in believing that dog and banana are related?

Faith is not required, when you have solid evidence.

 

[xianghua]

Not faith, just common sense. Life is related to life.

what do you mean by that? do you belive that banana and dog are related because of their genetic similarity?

 

[xianghua]

Faith is not required, when you have solid evidence.

so what is your solid evidence that banana and dog are related?

 

[dad]

It doesn't consist of flood sediments.

In the geologic record, the K–Pg event is marked by a thin layer of sediment called the K–Pg boundary, which can be found throughout the world in marine and terrestrial rocks. The boundary clay shows high levels of the metal iridium, which is rare in the Earth's crust, but abundant in asteroids.[6]
Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event - Wikipedia

There seems to be a world wide layer of sediment...no?

To quote Professor Dawkins: your mind seems to be SO open, that your brains are falling out.

Professor Dawkins has a mind that came from chimps (or a shared relative or whatever the religion of evoism prefers to name imaginary ancestors)...no? At least he may think he does.

Forgive me if I do not value what the Shamans of evolution preach.

 

[dad]

so what is your solid evidence that banana and dog are related?

A bannna peels and a dog pees? Only the 'l' is missing.

 

[Colter]

what do you mean by that? do you belive that banana and dog are related because of their genetic similarity?

All life comes from God, when we look at it microscopically we see similarities.

Since life comes from God I just assume we are all related to the origin of Life. That's what I mean by common sense. We wouldn't say that God only created the human life forms but some other life forms mysteriously created themselves?

 

[xianghua]

All life comes from God, when we look at it microscopically we see similarities.

Since life comes from God I just assume we are all related to the origin of Life. That's what I mean by common sense. We wouldn't say that God only created the human life forms but some other life forms mysteriously created themselves?

ok. but do you balieve that a dog and a banana were created separately?

 

[Colter]

ok. but do you balieve that a dog and a banana were created separately?

No, I believe they evolved from the original life forms that were created and planted on earth. Celestial beings effectively planted the seeds of life as we know it. Different lines of living things mutated off the original.

 

[PsychoSarah]

If we can't see, hear, feel, smell, and taste the evidence of our Divine Creator, then we just don't want to badly enough -- because the evidence is here, all around.

-_- an extremely presumptuous thing to claim. I often cry myself to sleep at night, begging for a sign, or even just the capacity to believe without evidence, and I get nothing. Yet, you think I and others that experience nothing of the deity you believe in "just don't want it enough". If I cared about the opinions of random people I don't know, I'd be insulted, but instead, I am sad at your lack of considering the perspective of others.

To those whose desire it is to believe, He gives enough light to recognize His presence.

I've been a seeker for about 9 years; your claim is simply wrong. Not one single person will experience the Christian god without being exposed to Christian dogma first one way or another, no matter how strong their desire is to know "a truly existing deity". Children are not more prone to believing in the Christian god because children "want it more", but rather because children are easier to indoctrinated into any religion.

To those whose hearts desire not to believe, He allows enough darkness so they don't have to.

That's not how belief works; it's not actually a choice. I can't make myself believe that the sky during the day is anything aside from blue, no matter how much I would prefer it to be purple. I can't force myself to believe I won't die some day. Despite how strongly I want to believe, I can't force myself to.

Freewill in human beings could not exist otherwise. Faith, in part, involves exercise of the will. Belief and unbelief is rooted in the heart. For this reason, scientific evidences and arguments can neither prove nor disprove God.

If a deity chose to actually show itself unambiguously, it could be scientifically evaluated. Sure, it'd be evidence, not proof, by technicality, but evidence is a powerful thing. By the way, you must then think I violate someone's free will to believe I am not real by talking to them, which means that free will is violated so frequently that it essentially doesn't exist.

However, if the Christian god based salvation on worship rather than purely on belief, that WOULD be a choice. Would it not be better to make its presence and intentions obvious to everyone, and to allow people to choose whether or not to worship it based on that information?

I know that there is an overwhelming body of evidence to support the biological theory of evolution, and see no need to deny it as an explanation of species origins. I know that the Holy Trinity is, and creates us and interacts with us, because of the overwhelming body of evidence personally shown me. It wouldn't be enough for me to tell anyone of this evidence, or even to show them. Unless they want to come into the light, it will be of no effect: and I have plenty of evidence also to know that this is true as well, because I've tried this and they still won't believe. The love of this world hardens the heart, darkening the eye of the soul, causing blindness and forgetfulness of the Truth.

Christ is Risen! Indeed He is Risen!

Present your evidence, then. You have no reason to hide it, or would it violate our "free will" to inform us? Evidence for the existence of the Christian god, that is.

 

[truefiction1]

-_- an extremely presumptuous thing to claim. I often cry myself to sleep at night, begging for a sign, or even just the capacity to believe without evidence, and I get nothing. Yet, you think I and others that experience nothing of the deity you believe in "just don't want it enough". If I cared about the opinions of random people I don't know, I'd be insulted, but instead, I am sad at your lack of considering the perspective of others.



I've been a seeker for about 9 years; your claim is simply wrong. Not one single person will experience the Christian god without being exposed to Christian dogma first one way or another, no matter how strong their desire is to know "a truly existing deity". Children are not more prone to believing in the Christian god because children "want it more", but rather because children are easier to indoctrinated into any religion.


That's not how belief works; it's not actually a choice. I can't make myself believe that the sky during the day is anything aside from blue, no matter how much I would prefer it to be purple. I can't force myself to believe I won't die some day. Despite how strongly I want to believe, I can't force myself to.


If a deity chose to actually show itself unambiguously, it could be scientifically evaluated. Sure, it'd be evidence, not proof, by technicality, but evidence is a powerful thing. By the way, you must then think I violate someone's free will to believe I am not real by talking to them, which means that free will is violated so frequently that it essentially doesn't exist.

However, if the Christian god based salvation on worship rather than purely on belief, that WOULD be a choice. Would it not be better to make its presence and intentions obvious to everyone, and to allow people to choose whether or not to worship it based on that information?


Present your evidence, then. You have no reason to hide it, or would it violate our "free will" to inform us? Evidence for the existence of the Christian god, that is.

If you move towards God with repentance, God will give you, or else allow you to experience unambiguous evidences of His presence. If you are a seeker, then have you sought information about my avatar (The Iveron Icon of the Theotokos)? Maybe you haven't been seeking in the right places? Maybe you want to seek in the right places -- maybe you don't want to seek in the right places. Maybe you would deny it even if someone rose from the dead, because some part of you isn't being totally honest about what your real desire is. I don't know. I sought, by asking Christ's most pure mother to pray to her Son that I be given some sign, if possible, that I might be able to believe, and got irrefutable answers shortly afterwards. I can tell you're not an incapable person in spiritual matters, and so I have to figure that if you seek God with your whole being, with prayer and repentance, then God will certainly answer you as well.

Also, all things happen according to God's time, not ours, necessarily. Do you suppose it's mere coincidence that you encountered me with my seemingly inconsiderate, ignorant, and uniformed post and became bothered by it enough to respond? A chance meeting in an online forum? Or Divine intervention due to your having sought the Truth with tears, because you are ultimately meant to be with Him? Heaven knows.

 

[DogmaHunter]

so what is your solid evidence that banana and dog are related?

Their DNA

 

[doubtingmerle]

A bannna peels and a dog pees? Only the 'l' is missing.

Scholars brainstorm and wannabees storm. Only the brain is missing.

 

[dad]

Scholars brainstorm and wannabees storm. Only the brain is missing.

Not when they share one with chimps and potatoes.

 

[xianghua]

I know that there is an overwhelming body of evidence to support the biological theory of evolution, and see no need to deny it as an explanation of species origins

can you give one instance? thanks.

 

[xianghua]

Their DNA

you mean similarity in their DNA?