Futurist Only The second coming is on a throne, not a white horse.

[Jamdoc]

I'm not sure about Nelson's idea of Jesus going back up to heaven after the second coming and coming a third time.. I actually see something different.

along with all the scriptures Nelson gives, I also add that for a few months now I have seen Revelation 19 differently, I was nudged to read it, and then asked as I read it "where is John when he sees this?"

and it opened my eyes. Because for years I had thought the same as traditionally spoke, that John was talking about being on Earth, seeing the heavens open above, and Jesus riding down from heaven on a white horse.
But that's wrong.
John was in Heaven since Revelation 4, everything John saw was from the vantage point of Heaven. So when John saw the heavens open up and saw Jesus on a white Horse, John was in heaven, and already saw Jesus on Earth, robes already stained in blood from the wrath of God.

It lines up with this from Isaiah 63, which has become such a stunning chapter for me all the way through

1 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.

Right off the bat, we see Isaiah meeting with Jesus, not coming with Him from heaven, but meeting Jesus on earth, Jesus coming from Jordan from the east.

2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?

His clothes are already stained with blood, just like we see in Revelation 19. Now Jesus answers Isaiah.

3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.

2 things of note here, Jesus was by Himself during the wrath of God. He was not with all His saints. Isaiah is meeting up with Him later. Secondly, the blood on His robes in Revelation 19 is NOT "symbolic for the blood that He shed for us on the cross." It is the blood of His enemies that He tread through the winepress of His wrath.

4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

Something I've tried to point out to people who have hyperliteral interpretations of "the day of the Lord" insisting that it has to be single 24 hour day. It's not, Jesus uses the day and the year interchangably here and Isaiah 34:8.

5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.
6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.

again He is alone and He is waging war.

7 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the Lord, and the praises of the Lord, according to all that the Lord hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.
8 For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour.
9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.

This refers to the first coming

10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

Israel rejected Christ and became enemies of the Gospel, God scattered them to the nations with violence and cursed them for thousands of years, but preserved them.

11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?
12 That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?
13 That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble?
14 As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the Lord caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.
15 Look down from heaven, and behold from the habitation of thy holiness and of thy glory: where is thy zeal and thy strength, the sounding of thy bowels and of thy mercies toward me? are they restrained?

But as promised the wrath of God will not rest on Israel forever, He will remember His promises and covenants and make good on them, for His own name's sake.

16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O Lord, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.
17 O Lord, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.
18 The people of thy holiness have possessed it but a little while: our adversaries have trodden down thy sanctuary.
19 We are thine: thou never barest rule over them; they were not called by thy name.

When God brings Israel back into the land in unbelief, they will possess the land for only a little while, and then the sanctuary will be trodden down.

 

[frank sears]

Good point, Jesus does not return on a white horse, He comes in the clouds to gather the redeemed. At the end of all the plagues Jesus appears on a white horse to personally defeat the Antichrist.

 

[Ligurian]

Good point, Jesus does not return on a white horse, He comes in the clouds to gather the redeemed. At the end of all the plagues Jesus appears on a white horse to personally defeat the Antichrist.

Matthew 24:30-31 Revelation 14:14-20

 

[Jamdoc]

Good point, Jesus does not return on a white horse, He comes in the clouds to gather the redeemed. At the end of all the plagues Jesus appears on a white horse to personally defeat the Antichrist.

Both true, but in between, Jesus has been on Earth doing plenty of killing along the way. "and I will stain all my raiment".. man, you do not want to be on the wrong side of Jesus when He returns.

makes me think of the evil servant in Matthew 24, Jesus describes cutting him to pieces.
There's the Lamb, and there's the Lion, and that's our Jesus, a God of love, but also of wrath.

 

[Ligurian]

John was in Heaven since Revelation 4, everything John saw was from the vantage point of Heaven. So when John saw the heavens open up and saw Jesus on a white Horse, John was in heaven, and already saw Jesus on Earth, robes already stained in blood from the wrath of God.

All the same horses?

Zechariah 1:8-11 I saw the night, and behold a man having mounted a reddish horse, and this one stood in the midst of the shady mountains; and behind him horses reddish, and white, and spotted.[9] And I said, What [are] these, O lord? And the angel said to me, the one speaking to me, I will show thee what these are.[10] And the man answered, the one standing in the midst of the mountains, and he said to me, These are whom [the] LORD sent out to travel about the earth.[11] And they answered to the angel of [the] LORD standing in the midst of the mountains, and they said, We have traveled about the earth, and behold, all the earth is inhabited, and tranquil.ABP

Zechariah 6:1-8 And I turned, and lifted my eyes; and looked I beheld, and behold, four chariots going forth from out of [the] midst of two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass.[2] With the first chariot reddish horses; and with the second chariot black horses;[3] and with the third chariot white horses; and with the fourth chariot horses spotted and dapple-grey.[4] And I answered and said to the angel, the one speaking with me, What are these, O lord?
[5] And answered the angel, the one speaking with me answered. And he said, These are the four winds of the heaven, and they go forth to stand beside the Lord of all the earth,
[6] with which were the black horses--they went forth upon [the] land of [the] north; and the white--they went forth after them; and the spotted--they went forth upon [the] land of [the] south.[7] And the dapple-gray--they went forth, and they looked to travel about the earth. And he said, Go and travel about the earth. And they traveled about the earth.
[8] And he yelled out and spoke to me, saying, Behold, the ones going forth upon [the] land of [the] north caused rest for my rage in [the] land of [the] north.ABP

So that the red horses stay where Zechariah saw them, the black and white horses go to the north country, the spotted horse goes to the south, and the dapple-gray go everywhere?

Does that work with Revelation 6:1-8, too?

 

[Jamdoc]

All the same horses?

Zechariah 1:8-11 I saw the night, and behold a man having mounted a reddish horse, and this one stood in the midst of the shady mountains; and behind him horses reddish, and white, and spotted.[9] And I said, What [are] these, O lord? And the angel said to me, the one speaking to me, I will show thee what these are.[10] And the man answered, the one standing in the midst of the mountains, and he said to me, These are whom [the] LORD sent out to travel about the earth.[11] And they answered to the angel of [the] LORD standing in the midst of the mountains, and they said, We have traveled about the earth, and behold, all the earth is inhabited, and tranquil.ABP

Zechariah 6:1-8 And I turned, and lifted my eyes; and looked I beheld, and behold, four chariots going forth from out of [the] midst of two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass.[2] With the first chariot reddish horses; and with the second chariot black horses;[3] and with the third chariot white horses; and with the fourth chariot horses spotted and dapple-grey.[4] And I answered and said to the angel, the one speaking with me, What are these, O lord?
[5] And answered the angel, the one speaking with me answered. And he said, These are the four winds of the heaven, and they go forth to stand beside the Lord of all the earth,
[6] with which were the black horses--they went forth upon [the] land of [the] north; and the white--they went forth after them; and the spotted--they went forth upon [the] land of [the] south.[7] And the dapple-gray--they went forth, and they looked to travel about the earth. And he said, Go and travel about the earth. And they traveled about the earth.
[8] And he yelled out and spoke to me, saying, Behold, the ones going forth upon [the] land of [the] north caused rest for my rage in [the] land of [the] north.ABP

So that the red horses stay where Zechariah saw them, the black and white horses go to the north country, the spotted horse goes to the south, and the dapple-gray go everywhere?

Does that work with Revelation 6:1-8, too?

Possibly I mean Revelation is like a clearing house of old testament Eschatalogical prophecies, so many references are taken from books like Zechariah, and that could be one of them.