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The Scriptures and Authority

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StTherese

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I asked this in another thread numerous times, but have yet to get an answer....

Where in the scriptures does it say that the scriptures are the authority for Christians and where does it say that all scripture interprets scripture????

Also, those who believe the Bible to be the authority, how do you explain the fact that people can interpret them differently and can be lead into error?
 

LittleLambofJesus

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Also, those who believe the Bible to be the authority, how do you explain the fact that people can interpret them differently and can be lead into error?
The Atheists ask that all the time.

When debating them, you will have a half a dozen different denominations of Christ-ianity telling them a half a dozen different views of the Scriptures from a half a dozen different Translations and Greek texts.

So what do you tell them except to just Believe and have Faith?:wave:

Ephesians 2:22 in whom also ye are being-builded-together/sun-oik-odomeisqe <4925, into a habitation/kat-oik-hthrion <2732> of the God in Spirit.

Reve 18:2 And he cries-out in a mighty voice, saying, `She falls, She falls, Babylon the great. And she became a habitation/kat-oik-hthrion <2732 of demons, and prison of every spirit, unclean, and prison of every bird hated,
 
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StTherese

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The Atheists ask that all the time.

When debating them, you will have a half a dozen different denominations of Christ-ianity telling them a half a dozen different views of the Scriptures from a half a dozen different Translations and Greek texts.

So what do you tell them except to just Believe and have Faith?:wave:
The atheists may have a point there...how can you tell them to believe and have faith in opposing doctrines. Are they suppose to believe that things which contradict each other are both true. What are they suppose to believe and have faith in...opinions? personal interpretations?

Do you really think that we are all suppose to interpret the scriptures differently? How can that ever lead to unity and One Truth???
 
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StTherese

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Develping the canon went hand-in-hand with developing orthodoxy. I suppose that one could say that the scriptures have been made authoritative in regards to orthodoxy.

Those who made it so obviously regarded themselves as having authority.

I don't know if that addresses your question or not...
Well, I would think that those who believe the scriptures to be the authority would certaintly have gotten this doctrine from their source of authority...the Bible....so I was looking for the scripture references....
 
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ticker

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I don't know if I'd argue that "scripture is the authority" the way you might be implying it, but putting our trust in the good news of the gospel is indeed what lets us know the truth of our Father's heart.


1 John 2:24 - "As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father."


Problem is...if we're getting mixed messages between what God says God is, and what Man says God is, then we start to have an altered perspective and meaning when reading God's Word. So, I would definitely say that scripture is more of an authority than what any religious denomination says about God....but in the end, it's God himself who's the authority. So I'll just trust Him to teach me.
 
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New_Wineskin

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Where in the scriptures does it say that the scriptures are the authority for Christians and where does it say that all scripture interprets scripture????

Nowhere . All I find is passage after passage saying that the Lord only has authority . They suggest to walk by the Spirit and not by the written code .

I hae yet to know of a single person who insists on Scriptural authority that doesn't rationalize why they deliberately and knowingly throw out many of the commands of Scriptures that they don't like . So , even those that claim that the Scriptures have authority don't believe it .
 
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ticker

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Nowhere. All I find is passage after passage saying that the Lord only has authority. They suggest to walk by the Spirit and not by the written code.

So.....let me get this straight.


Are you implying that I actually have the Spirit of Christ?...


-"I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me"

-"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you&#8221;


...and that walking by the power of the Spirit is how we live as Christians?...


-"If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit."

-"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances."


...and that I then don't have to feel I need to take matters into my own hands all the time trying to figure out the right way to be a Christian...but instead trust in the power of Christ's Spirit to lead me into truth?...


-"Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding."

-"And He has said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness'. Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me."


Well...that just sounds like a radical way of living to me. Almost supernatural. Are you sure about this stuff?







;)
 
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DeaconDean

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God said in Deut. 8:3:

"...man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live."

A fact further illustrated by Jesus Christ:

"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." -Mt. 4:4 (KJV)

We look at what Paul said to Timothy:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God," -2 Tim. 3:16 (KJV)

In the Greek, the word "inspired" is "qeopneustoV" and according to The New Analytical Greek Lexicon, Wesley J. Perschbacher, Hendrickson publishing, Peabody, Mass., 01962. Copyright 1990, p. 201, qeopneustiV means:

"divinely inspired, lit. God-Breathed"

The scriptures literally are, the word of God. Both Jesus and God Himself tell us that we are to live by His words alone.

Not some man's word, but His word. And that is the Bible.

Ergo, the word, scriptures, are the word of God and our authority.

That is this Baptists view.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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DesertScroll

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I asked this in another thread numerous times, but have yet to get an answer....

Where in the scriptures does it say that the scriptures are the authority for Christians and where does it say that all scripture interprets scripture????

Also, those who believe the Bible to be the authority, how do you explain the fact that people can interpret them differently and can be lead into error?
As others have said Jesus is the authority. Everything else, including the scriptures, derives authority based on that.

If you look in John 17 where Jesus is in prayer with the Father he speaks of things happening so the scripture might be fulfilled (v12) and the message of Jesus to the world so they might have his joy (v13) and this message is the Father's word (v14). So we have the Father's word, which is the message that Jesus proclaims (also see John 7:17).
But later in his prayer Jesus also prays for those that will believe in him through the words of the apostles (v20). So we have a progression so to speak from Father, Son, to apostles in regards to who was given the message and this message is from God.

Scripture is said to be God breathed in many places such as 2 Sam 23:2, 2 Chr 36:22, Prov 30:5,6, Matt 1:21, John 5:39, John 10:35 to name a few.

So then we have passages like 2 Tim 3:15-17 where is says that the scriptures (Old testament) are able to instruct for salvation through faith ion Jesus, inspired of God, and so is good for teaching, reproof, correction, and training in righteousness.

If something contradicts the scriptures then it is wrong, not because the scriptures are the authority on their own, but because they come from God, God breathed.

And for the New Testament remember that Jesus is praying for those who believe in the words of the apostles, the words which Jesus has given to them, which he brings from above.
And whether or not one believes that 2 Peter was written by Peter the apostle, one recognizes that early on in the church the letters of Paul were being held as scripture.
So the basis of the New Testament goes in reverse order those that new/traveled with the apostles and received their message, the apostles who new/traveled with Jesus and received his message, and Jesus who comes from above, both God and with God at the same time, is where the message begins and not with man made messages (see Isa 8:19,20).
[Edit: 1 Thess 2:13 We also constantly give thanks to God for this, that when you received the word of God that you heard from us, you accepted it not as human word, but as what it really is, God's word, which is also at work in you believers.]

The phrase scripture interprets scripture is a phrase which basically takes as its basis scripture will not contradict itself (John 10:35). As an example I'll use the idea of destruction of the ungoldy.
So we start in passages like 2 Pet 3:7 where it talks about the godless facing destruction. And in 2 Pet 2:6 it speaks of the destruction (extinction) of the godless in Sodom and Gomorrah as an example or type of what is coming to the ungodly. So some people argue for total annihilation of the wicked.
Then we come to passages like 2 Thess 1:9 where it describes destruction as seperated from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might. Another passage Rev 14:9-11 where their is no rest day or night for those who drink God's wrath. So destruction is not total annihilation.

Now some may disagree with that, in which case they would need to show how those last two verses do not contradict total annihilation (good luck). But you get the point of scripture interpreting scripture.
You can also see the same thing when Jesus answers questions using scripture such as in Matt 22:29-33. He first says that they are wrong because they do not know the scriptures nor the power of God (the two do not contradict each other) by pointing out a simple use of present tense he showed them God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. What they were saying contradicted scripture.

Interpreting differently can stem from many things. Meanings of words, some words from old Hebrew we are not quite sure what they mean, very difficult subjects like free will (backed up by verses) versus God's sovereignty (also can be backed up by verses) and they stem from people who genuinly want to know.

But then there is "twisting" of scripture which 2 Pet 3:16 speaks about. And there are many examples of this such as the gnostics who focused on knowledge, Marcion who denied the God of the OT was even God so refused to use it and concentrated on a heavily redacted Luke and some of Paul's letters, Valentinius who by "reading spiritually" could basically read whatever he wanted into the text, and we see the same things today.

So there is a difference of interpretation to be sure, but twisting is a very different beast and it leads to destruction. Where the line between the two is can be hard to tell as a bad teaching invades the whole view point, like Jesus speaking of the yeast of the Pharisees (Matt 16:5-12).
 
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ticker

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"All scripture is given by inspiration of God," -2 Tim. 3:16 (KJV)

Very true...but we must keep in mind also that not all interpretation of scripture is given by inspiration of God. ;)

If we aren't walking in the Spirit (trusting in the fullness of God's grace with every detail of our lives), and are instead acting out of our own self-efforts to make spiritual progress (whether it's reading the Bible or partaking in rituals), then we're not gonna get what we're meant to get out of scripture, 'cause our approach will just be wrong.

Looking to scripture as simply a way to encounter the love our Father wants to share with us is what will allow it to truly speak to us (...by the revelation and grace of the Spirit). But if we're looking to it to try and figure out how we're to be acceptable to God, then we'll just be blinding ourselves from its truth...because that approach is not trusting in the truth (...the truth that we've already been accepted, that we're already righteous, that we're already saved, and that we can put our trust Him to finish what He's started in us).

Ergo, the word, scriptures, are the word of God and our authority.

To be more precise, God is the authority....and He's found in scripture, but more importantly, in Spirit.


Blessings!
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by DeaconDean
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God," -2 Tim. 3:16 (KJV)

http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

[Tex-Rec] 2 Timothy 3:16 pasa <3956> {EVERY/ALL} grafh <1124> {SCRIPTURE} qeopneustoV <2315> {GOD-BREATHED} kai <2532> {AND} wfelimoV (5624) {PROFITABLE} proV <4314> {TOWARD} didaskalian <1319> {TEACHING,} proV <4314> {TOWARD} elegcon <1650> {CONVICTION,} proV <4314> {TOWARD} epanorqwsin <1882> {CORRECTION,} proV <4314> {TOWARD} paideian <3809> {DISCIPLINE} thn <3588> {THE} en <1722> {IN} dikaiosunh <1343> {RIGHTEOUSNESS;}
 
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InkBlott

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Well, I would think that those who believe the scriptures to be the authority would certaintly have gotten this doctrine from their source of authority...the Bible....so I was looking for the scripture references....

Well, there is no scripture reference outlining the canon, so those who assert that the scriptures are their only authority end up having to more or less wave away the question of how the canon was determined. This is usually done by proclaiming those who determined the canon to have been inspired directly by God, an assertion that is not found in the scriptures. In other words, it is a tradition.

At some point you have to grant someone some authority, whether it's yourself (yourself alone or yourself presumed to be somehow led or inspired) or someone you feel is an expert for whatever reason. I think it's best to always grant that authority provisionally but I'm not sure how you can approach the scriptures without granting it at all.
 
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GodsChild07

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I asked this in another thread numerous times, but have yet to get an answer....

Where in the scriptures does it say that the scriptures are the authority for Christians and where does it say that all scripture interprets scripture????

Also, those who believe the Bible to be the authority, how do you explain the fact that people can interpret them differently and can be lead into error?
It does not say that. Man assumes many things. These are very good and relevant questions.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Finaly, St. Theresa has gotten her answers
from Deacon Dean, ticker, and Desert Scroll!

Thank you guys for freeing her from a false yoke!
I'm sure she'll be switchin' faith icons any moment now.
:bow:

Acts 15:10 Now then any/why ye [Papacy] are trying the God, to put a Yoke/zugon <2218> upon the Neck of the Disciples [Protestants], which neither the fathers of us neither are we are able to bear? ^_^
 
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StTherese

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