The scripture worshippers

[RTE (Road to Emmaus)]

One of the tricks so called theology debaters employ, is to get you to think that scripture is the authority in debate, and that all you need do is employ scripture, and you will come up with the right answer.

Apparently there are about 47,000,000 posters with different right answers.

There is no way to prove the scripture is correct. Those who quote 2 Ti 3:16 simply try to pull themselves off the ground by their own bootstraps, for 2 Ti 3:16 is itself scripture.

The true Christian does not follow scripture, but the Holy Spirit. In fact the Holy Spirit does not need scripture to teach the believer at all.

Scripture is the letter, and thus in the modality of the law. The Spirit is not the letter, but life.

The Spirit will use scripture as an echo of what He is saying to the believer, never the other way around. For just as we learn in linguistics that the written word is derived from the spoken word, so too in the things of God.

Those who quote "sola scriptura", of course are correct within the context they intend: scripture is the only totally-God-written book. In this sense scripture is the word of God, for every word was put there directly by God.

But the Word of God is a person, not a book, and the sons of God they who are led by the Spirit, not the letter. The letter is then used by the Spirit in order to echo Himself and assist the believer. But the letter is not primary, but the Spirit is.

The only way one knows whether the scripture is being used deceitfully, is not by scripture, but by the Spirit.

There is no bible verse that can tell you you are saved: only the Spirit can. And there is no bible verse that can tell you what demonic spirit is in those whom you meet from day to day: only the Spirit can.

So the scripture is not dynamic, but static. Only the Spirit is dynamic.

The scripture is only of use when the Holy Spirit interprets it to you. Failing this, it is simply another book.

 

[Eric_C]

I prey, Lord willing, that The Spirit of Truth will open the eyes of everyone that reads the OP.

 

[jmacvols]

One of the tricks so called theology debaters employ, is to get you to think that scripture is the authority in debate, and that all you need do is employ scripture, and you will come up with the right answer.

Apparently there are about 47,000,000 posters with different right answers.

There is no way to prove the scripture is correct. Those who quote 2 Ti 3:16 simply try to pull themselves off the ground by their own bootstraps, for 2 Ti 3:16 is itself scripture.

The true Christian does not follow scripture, but the Holy Spirit. In fact the Holy Spirit does not need scripture to teach the believer at all.

Scripture is the letter, and thus in the modality of the law. The Spirit is not the letter, but life.

The Spirit will use scripture as an echo of what He is saying to the believer, never the other way around. For just as we learn in linguistics that the written word is derived from the spoken word, so too in the things of God.

Those who quote "sola scriptura", of course are correct within the context they intend: scripture is the only totally-God-written book. In this sense scripture is the word of God, for every word was put there directly by God.

But the Word of God is a person, not a book, and the sons of God they who are led by the Spirit, not the letter. The letter is then used by the Spirit in order to echo Himself and assist the believer. But the letter is not primary, but the Spirit is.

The only way one knows whether the scripture is being used deceitfully, is not by scripture, but by the Spirit.

There is no bible verse that can tell you you are saved: only the Spirit can. And there is no bible verse that can tell you what demonic spirit is in those whom you meet from day to day: only the Spirit can.

So the scripture is not dynamic, but static. Only the Spirit is dynamic.

The scripture is only of use when the Holy Spirit interprets it to you. Failing this, it is simply another book.

When Satan tempted Jesus, Jesus employed scripture which refuted Satan's attempts.

Paul told the Ephesians, when ye read, ye may understand, Paul did not tell them they could understand only with help of the Holy Spirit.

Phillip was sent to the eunuch to give him understanding, the eunuch's understanding was not "illuminated" by the Holy Spirit, but by preaching.

The Holy Spirit today only speaks to us thru His word, the bible.

How many "religious scholars" believe like you, that they are guided by the Holy Spirit apart from scriptures, yet they contradict each other all over the place? The Holy Spirit is not the author of this confusion, yet man-made ideas are. Anyone that claims they receive "special illumination" from the HS, then their knowledge would be as infallible as the HS's, yet we know this is not the case.

You claim scripture is not "dynamic", yet:

Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Jam 1:21....... receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Jam 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth,

Tts 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Act 12:24 But the word of God grew and multiplied.

Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Jhn 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed;


http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/641-the-holy-spirit-illumination-theory-a-critical-review

 

[squint]

One of the tricks so called theology debaters employ, is to get you to think that scripture is the authority in debate, and that all you need do is employ scripture, and you will come up with the right answer.

Apparently there are about 47,000,000 posters with different right answers.

There is no way to prove the scripture is correct. Those who quote 2 Ti 3:16 simply try to pull themselves off the ground by their own bootstraps, for 2 Ti 3:16 is itself scripture.

The true Christian does not follow scripture, but the Holy Spirit. In fact the Holy Spirit does not need scripture to teach the believer at all.

Scripture is the letter, and thus in the modality of the law. The Spirit is not the letter, but life.

The Spirit will use scripture as an echo of what He is saying to the believer, never the other way around. For just as we learn in linguistics that the written word is derived from the spoken word, so too in the things of God.

Those who quote "sola scriptura", of course are correct within the context they intend: scripture is the only totally-God-written book. In this sense scripture is the word of God, for every word was put there directly by God.

But the Word of God is a person, not a book, and the sons of God they who are led by the Spirit, not the letter. The letter is then used by the Spirit in order to echo Himself and assist the believer. But the letter is not primary, but the Spirit is.

The only way one knows whether the scripture is being used deceitfully, is not by scripture, but by the Spirit.

There is no bible verse that can tell you you are saved: only the Spirit can. And there is no bible verse that can tell you what demonic spirit is in those whom you meet from day to day: only the Spirit can.

So the scripture is not dynamic, but static. Only the Spirit is dynamic.

The scripture is only of use when the Holy Spirit interprets it to you. Failing this, it is simply another book.

It is quite ridiculous methodology to try to pit the Spirit against The Word.

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The Word will not speak contrary to The Spirit OR vice versa. There is also a LETTER THAT KILLETH and it was MEANT to KILL.

enjoy!

squint

 

[RTE (Road to Emmaus)]

Duplicate

 

[RTE (Road to Emmaus)]

Squint,

It is quite ridiculous methodology to try to pit the Spirit against The Word.
"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."

So the only thing ridiculous, is your statement.




The Word will not speak contrary to The Spirit OR vice versa.
We are not talking about the Word, but the word. The Word is the Spirit. The word is not.

 

[heymikey80]

Unsure how to respond. Spirit and the Spirit's words are both consistent and required. Claimants to the Spirit gave us 48,000,000 different interpretations. So I'm unsure the point there.

There are few tests for the Spirit of God -- and they're Scriptural!

Scripture also says to accept people who are weak in the faith -- and that allows for many of the 48,000,000 interpretations. We're limited people.

 

[RTE (Road to Emmaus)]

Jmacvols,


When Satan tempted Jesus, Jesus employed scripture which refuted Satan's attempts.
And Satan tempted Jesus with the scripture in the first place. Satan knows the bible very well, and uses it all day long to preach to believers what he wants them to know.
Was it the Word when Satan read it to Jesus, or simply the word?




Paul told the Ephesians, when ye read, ye may understand, Paul did not tell them they could understand only with help of the Holy Spirit.
Not every verse says everything. It is understood by the greater counsel of scripture, that the understanding of which he spoke was by the Holy Spirit.





Phillip was sent to the eunuch to give him understanding, the eunuch's understanding was not "illuminated" by the Holy Spirit, but by preaching.
"It is the spirit that quickeneth" (Jo 6:63)
Note also Paul: "[Pray] for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel" Eph 6:19.

So the Holy Spirit was preaching through Philip. Only the Holy Spirit preaches. For it is written: "Ye can do nothing without me".





The Holy Spirit today only speaks to us thru His word, the bible.
As I said, this is when the Holy Spirit uses the bible to echo what He is saying to you in the Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not need the bible to teach you, for He is the Spirit of Truth.





How many "religious scholars" believe like you, that they are guided by the Holy Spirit apart from scriptures, yet they contradict each other all over the place?
Not as many as believe like you, and fill this forum with disputes because they all assert that the scripture can be interpretted one way only. Their way.

 

[Uphill Battle]

hmmmm..... If Jesus refered to scripture to prove his points. (which he did repeatedly) then I think it's a safe ruberic for us to use as well.

What's good for the Master, is good for the servant.

 

[Uphill Battle]

hmmmm..... If Jesus refered to scripture to prove his points. (which he did repeatedly) then I think it's a safe ruberic for us to use as well.

What's good for the Master, is good for the servant.

 

[RTE (Road to Emmaus)]

hmmmm..... If Jesus refered to scripture to prove his points. (which he did repeatedly) then I think it's a safe ruberic for us to use as well.
Satan uses it to prove his points too.

 

[Uphill Battle]

and was soundly refuted in it's use.

 

[RTE (Road to Emmaus)]

Duplicate

 

[RTE (Road to Emmaus)]

refuted by the Spirit. For Christ and the Spirit are the same person.

So it is back to the OP for you.



BTW, your kitten photo is a waste of space on a forum such as this, and contributes to the download time significantly.

 

[Uphill Battle]

refuted by the proper use of scripture.

ball's in your court.
BTW, you could always get a faster computer.

 

[squint]

Squint,

It is quite ridiculous methodology to try to pit the Spirit against The Word.
"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."

So the only thing ridiculous, is your statement.

The Law was MEANT to shine on the DEVIL, to make YOU aware of his "presence" and to eventually ERADICATE the DEVIL entirely. There is your letter that KILLETH and it won't hurt YOU a bit to understand the purposes of that KILLING LETTER.

The Word will not speak contrary to The Spirit OR vice versa.
We are not talking about the Word, but the word. The Word is the Spirit. The word is not.

The Spirit of the Law is LOVE. Go measure what may be IN YOU and what THAT measures to your "fellow man." Then you can share about The Spirit with me.

enjoy!

squint

 

[jmacvols]

Jmacvols,


When Satan tempted Jesus, Jesus employed scripture which refuted Satan's attempts.
And Satan tempted Jesus with the scripture in the first place. Satan knows the bible very well, and uses it all day long to preach to believers what he wants them to know.
Was it the Word when Satan read it to Jesus, or simply the word?

In Matt 4, Satan quoted scripture one time, v6, yet used it inappropriately/out of context. Jesus all three times refuted Satan's temptations with "it is written". Scripture was sufficient by itself to refute Satan.
In Mark 12, Jesus told the Sadducees that they err not knowing the scriptures. Is this the fault of the Holy Spirit for not "illuminating" the understanding of the Sadducees?
Rom 4:1-3, Paul questions the idea of Abraham being righteous before God for his own efforts -works of merit- in perfectly keeping divine law. The implied answer is obviously 'no'. To support his argument, Paul then ask "for what saith the scriptures" then he quotes from Genesis. Paul is implying that there is authority in scripture to answer such questions. Note Paul asked "what saith scripture" rather than asking" what does the HS personally say to you about this".

Paul told the Ephesians, when ye read, ye may understand, Paul did not tell them they could understand only with help of the Holy Spirit.

Not every verse says everything. It is understood by the greater counsel of scripture, that the understanding of which he spoke was by the Holy Spirit.

Nothing in the context substantiates your assertion here.
Paul simply said when ye read ye may understand, Paul said nothing here nor anywhere else that understanding can only come about by miraculous means of the HS.

Phillip was sent to the eunuch to give him understanding, the eunuch's understanding was not "illuminated" by the Holy Spirit, but by preaching.

"It is the spirit that quickeneth" (Jo 6:63)
Note also Paul: "[Pray] for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel" Eph 6:19.

So the Holy Spirit was preaching through Philip. Only the Holy Spirit preaches. For it is written: "Ye can do nothing without me".

The Spirit speaks thru His word the bible, Phillip was there to help the understanding of the eunuch of the Spirit's written word.

Act 8:29Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

Act 8:30And Philip ran thither to [him], and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

Act 8:31And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

And Phillip preached to him:

Act 8:35Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Why didn't the HS just go ahead and 'illuminate' the understanding of the eunuch apart from the word, no need to send Phillip was there?

1Cr 1:21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

It is God's plan that men come to understand and be saved thru preaching, not by some miraculous illuminations of the HS apart from scripture, the word.

The Holy Spirit today only speaks to us thru His word, the bible.

As I said, this is when the Holy Spirit uses the bible to echo what He is saying to you in the Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not need the bible to teach you, for He is the Spirit of Truth.

As I have already demonstrated, the HS speaks today to us thru His word, not apart from it. Again, time and time again we see "religious scholars" claim they receive knowledge from the HS, yet contradict each other. The HS does not contradict himself, so there is an obvious problem with this idea of yours.

How many "religious scholars" believe like you, that they are guided by the Holy Spirit apart from scriptures, yet they contradict each other all over the place?

Not as many as believe like you, and fill this forum with disputes because they all assert that the scripture can be interpretted one way only. Their way.

So I take this as an admission from you that those that claim to receive their understanding directly from the HS, apart from the word, contradict each other.
And anyone that disagrees with you, then that is how you "prove" they are wrong for they are not agreeing with you and getting their understanding directly from the HS as you do? Very subjective and convenient on your part. Anyone can "CLAIM" they receive understanding from the HS, but they cannot prove it...proof can be shown thru scripture.
In reality, you have shown yourself to be wrong on this forum with Calvinistic leaning positions which are completely unbiblical....the HS is not a Calvinist.

 

[RTE (Road to Emmaus)]

uphill,

[Satan was] refuted by the proper use of scripture.
What scripture tells you this?

And what scripture did God use to tell Philip to run up beside the Eunuch?
Was it 2nd Runners ch7, v15?

Also tell us what scripture Christ used when He converted Paul on the road to Damascus.

So there are 3 questions here which should keep you busy for a while.

 

[RTE (Road to Emmaus)]

jmacvols,



Scripture was sufficient by itself to refute Satan.
Which scripture tells you the scripture is correct?






In Mark 12, Jesus told the Sadducees that they err not knowing the scriptures. Is this the fault of the Holy Spirit for not "illuminating" the understanding of the Sadducees?
Paul (when he was Saul) knew the scriptures. How come that didn't illuminate him unto salvation?

The other Pharisees knew them also. Didn't help them much.
Plenty of university theologians spend their whole life in the scripture. Doesn't help them either.

So as I said, only the Holy Spirit can illumine scripture, and the scripture on its own is absolutely useless.







The Spirit speaks thru His word the bible, Phillip was there to help the understanding of the eunuch of the Spirit's written word.
What bible verse did the Spirit use to tell Philp to run up to the Eunuch?






As I have already demonstrated, the HS speaks today to us thru His word, not apart from it.
You have demonstrated nothing. Rather, here is an interesting story for you to ponder:

When the first missionaries went into Japan, there was on one occassion a meeting held to evangelise the Japanese. In the crowd was a Japanese woman who, when she heard the gospel message, exclaimed "I knew it, I knew it, I'd seen it in the stars.....I just didn't know His name".

Unfortunately your understanding is born of mainline Christianity which does not depend upon, nor preach, the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. When one is baptised in the Spirit, one is more likely to understand what I am teaching here. I recommend to you a biographical book you can readily buy entitled "Deeper experiences of famous Christians", by James Lawson. You will profit greatly from reading this book.







How many "religious scholars" believe like you, that they are guided by the Holy Spirit apart from scriptures, yet they contradict each other all over the place?
Not as many as believe like you, and fill this forum with disputes because they all assert that the scripture can be interpretted one way only. Their way.
So I take this as an admission from you that those that claim to receive their understanding directly from the HS, apart from the word, contradict each other.
Just the opposite: that those who claim that the scripture is all that is necessary, and who disagree on scripture with others who make the same claim, show that something else is necessary. Guess what it is.

The Lord bless you today.

 

[bbbbbbb]

jmacvols,

The Lord bless you today.

And you, too, both today, tomorrow, and for all eternity.