The Science of Creation

[Wiccan_Child]

No we do Exist in 4 Dimensions.
The information you are referring to is correct. But your use of it is incorrect.
The Existence of such dimensions is what I have been stating for a while. That God exists in a higher dimension.
But the universe we witness is 4 dimensional. Anything on higher dimensions cannot be comprehended by us. For we are 4th dimensional spacetime.

By your logic, we are two dimensional beings: our sight is ultimately 2D (our brains superimpose depth via binocular vision, and successive 'frames' are used to create the illusion of the fourth 'time' dimension).

But as I said before, a dimension is intimately related to length, not comprehension. If we have length in six dimensions, then we are 6D. We don't have to be aware of all six dimensions.

A 2D Being can only see in 1 Dimension as we can only see in 2 Dimensions at a time.

Perhaps, but that is a consequence of how our vision has evolved. We hear, for instance, in all three dimensions, and smell in one dimension. Our senses are irrelevant.

A 2D being using technology could figure out what is past the wall but cannot see anything in 2 Dimensions only 1. Even though we are 3D Space, we can only see 2 Dimensions at a time. So God being 4+ Dimensions of Space can see in 3 Dimensions and therefore can see all sides of a Cube simultaneously as you see the 2 D Object.

Your analogies are flawed: you are taking our evolved limitations and assuming them to be universal necessities. This is not the case.

You do not understand the way his time works. If you exist in 3 Dimensions of Time. You can move freely around it as you move around your room.
So Picture time like your room. God can move around it and watch, observe and work in all points in time. So for God, Time is irrelevant.

Why? Picturing time as a room requires one to assume that time is the same as space: variable. But time, even 3D time, is not like this.

Omnipresence defines someone who exists in all points in space at the same TIME, Now remember God can move throughout time as he wishes.
It is a very complicated explanation. To understand this you must REALLY think outside the Box. Time is Irrelevant to God. If time is Irrelevant Omnipresence is simply a matter of Having enough TIME to get to every point in space. So he can literally follow you around for your entire lifetime then when hes done go back to another person and follow them around.
Its like having a Time Machine, activated by thought, You can simply talk to one of your friends spend their whole lifetime with them and when they die you go back to their birth and spend their whole lifetime with them. This can be considered omnipresence because You exist in more than one place at the same time.
This is a difficult thing to Comprehend. Very Outside the box.

No offence, but this kind of time-travel isn't the most baffling of concepts. That said, you haven't responded to my point: you are presupposing things about God that have no basis, Biblical or otherwise. You have made the baseless assumption that God's omnipresence stems from his extra-dimensionality. I am well aware that this is a valid (albeit nebulous) explanation, I'm simply pointing out how arbitrary it is.

The 3D Time was explained above.

No, it wasn't. You didn't explain why God exists in three temporal dimensions and not, say, one, two, four, etc.

We know that Matter can be broken down. Elements and Even the Subatomic Particles can be broken down into smaller forms.
All matter can be broken down into Elements(atoms)
Atoms can be broken down into many Subatomic Particles, mainly Protons, Neutrons and Electrons. The Proton and Neutron can be broken down into Quarks. The entire Material Universe can be made with only these 2 things:
Quarks and Electrons. Basically. with a few other particles.

To say the least. The two main types of known particles can be called either Fermions or Bosons. Fermions are then further split into quarks and leptons. The electron is a type of lepton.

Matter's "Types" Are simply Organized by a very Few number of Particles.
Humans require Oxygen, Water and many other Nutrients to maintain its existence. An Energy being would not require fuel. For as Energy it is the Fuel.

But you have not addressed the key point: pure energy does not exist. There is no such thing as an 'energy being', living or otherwise.

Not True, just because we have not Found it yet does not mean it does not exist. We have not Found Pure Matter. But the Fact is it can exist.

The reason it doesn't exist is due to just what energy is, not because we haven't found it.

This August the LHC(Large Hadron Collider) will start up.
It is hoped, and most probably true, that it will discover the Higgs Boson(the subatomic Particle which is responsible for the Mass of Matter)
If it is found that will prove the existence of Pure Matter. If it is proven then Pure energy will most probably exist.

Err... what? The Higgs Boson is not 'pure matter', nor is it related to 'pure energy'. It is simply a particle (albeit one of great importance to the standard model).

Also Either way something causes Mass, and something causes Energy.
Break matter down enough and you will find the Mass Particle. Break Energy down enough and Pure Energy.

Pure speculation (no pun intended). What evidence is there that there is a 'pure mass' particle, and a 'pure energy' quanta?

I don't understand what you mean

Medieval cosmology basically involved spheres of existence and planes of being.

1: Planes of Existence are Metaphysical, and are not really a branch of Physics but a Branch of Philosophy.
Planes of Existence cannot be seen by us for we do not inhabit them.
We only inhabit 1 of them. Therefore we can only see things in ours.

You contradict yourself: do we inhabit one of them, or none of them? Moreover, what makes you think these 'planes' exist at all?

You are Made of your Parents.
Your entire genetic Structure is Made from 26 of your Fathers chromosomes and 26 of your Mothers chromosomes. You are made of your Parents.

My genome is largely derived from 23 of each parent's chromosomes (we have 46 chromosomes, half from mum, half from dad). Even though my genome is mostly derived from my parents, mutations (chiasmata formation, point mutation, etc) make my code unique. But even if I was a carbon copy of my mother, I would still not be made of her: she is her own body, composed of its own matter. Unless her body is surgically grafted to my own, I am in no way made of my parents.

 

[artybloke]

This, of course, is what happens when a conchordist view of scripture meets up with the real world. You get bad science fiction.

 

[Mallon]

This, of course, is what happens when a conchordist view of scripture meets up with the real world. You get bad science fiction.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Benwilbur]

By your logic, we are two dimensional beings: our sight is ultimately 2D (our brains superimpose depth via binocular vision, and successive 'frames' are used to create the illusion of the fourth 'time' dimension).

No we see in 2 Dimensions. We can only look at 2 of the 3 Spacial Dimensions we exist in.
We live in a 3 Dimensional World but our sight is 2 Dimensional, as God existing in 4 Spacial dimensions would see in 3D. He would see all of a 3 D objects sides as we see the 2 D world.

But as I said before, a dimension is intimately related to length, not comprehension. If we have length in six dimensions, then we are 6D. We don't have to be aware of all six dimensions.

If we are made up of Six dimensions we would then be 6 dimensional and therefore cast a 5 Dimensional Shadow and see in 5 Dimensions. But we only see in 2 Spacial Dimensions not 5.

Perhaps, but that is a consequence of how our vision has evolved. We hear, for instance, in all three dimensions, and smell in one dimension. Our senses are irrelevant.

Spacial dimensions cannot be smelled or heard. The Effects of then can be heard but the only sense that applies to the amount of Spacial Dimensions is sight. Also our Brains cannot form a 6 Dimensional object in our mind. and we cannot even think of what it would look like. We see in 3 Dimensions, we exist in 3 dimensions not 6. If we were 6 Dimensional we would then evolve to see in that dimension we would not evolve to only see the some of the dimensions.

Your analogies are flawed: you are taking our evolved limitations and assuming them to be universal necessities. This is not the case.

You Assume that we would evolve to not see all the dimensions we exist in. Our Existence is 4 Dimensional. We did not Evolve into a 4D being.
A Higher dimension is not reachable by Humans no matter how far we evolve. We are limited by this Dimension and it's Laws.

Why? Picturing time as a room requires one to assume that time is the same as space: variable. But time, even 3D time, is not like this.

My Statement was not to be taken that literally. As a 4 dimensional being I cannot actually picture what 3 Dimensional Time would be like. And obviously Time is not a box. I am saying that if you exist outside of our dimension of time you can move around it as you please.

No offence, but this kind of time-travel isn't the most baffling of concepts. That said, you haven't responded to my point: you are presupposing things about God that have no basis, Biblical or otherwise. You have made the baseless assumption that God's omnipresence stems from his extra-dimensionality. I am well aware that this is a valid (albeit nebulous) explanation, I'm simply pointing out how arbitrary it is.

This is not Time Travel in the way most think of it. No machine not even a real power. It is like the ability to "Walk" around time as we do space.

Also I am taking Scientific Theory and Law to explain How God could exist and To explain his abilities, powers etc...
I believe God, like us, is simply a Being, albeit a being that is FAR above us. But is a Being. Due to his power he is Worthy of our Worship. Same as we would be a God to a being with 2 Spacial dimensions and 1 Time Dimension.

My Statement is not Vague, But you have to understand Physics at least to a slight degree to understand this. It is an Explanation. In my Lifetime I have heard many people say that Certain things about Christianity oppose science in several fields. And I refused to believe it. and The Science of God was Born. God is not Unexplainable, everything about him is explainable if you simply Use the Brain God Gave you. And Yes my Beliefs do have Basis in Biblical and Scientific Systems.
The Bible states certain things then I Explain then Scientifically.

No, it wasn't. You didn't explain why God exists in three temporal dimensions and not, say, one, two, four, etc.

Well I said 3+ Dimensions of Time so it is possible he exists in 4.
It is also Possible he exists in 2 Temporal Dimensions. I have gone over things to see if there are any Flaws with saying 2 D Time instead of 3. But I knew that guaranteed it is 3 or more. So I state 3 until I see if 2 D Time can work out to explain things properly. But he cannot exist in 1 dimension of Time. Because then he would not be able to move freely around time. he would move through it like we do.

To say the least. The two main types of known particles can be called either Fermions or Bosons. Fermions are then further split into quarks and leptons. The electron is a type of lepton.

I believe that is what I said.

But you have not addressed the key point: pure energy does not exist. There is no such thing as an 'energy being', living or otherwise.

How do you know that. You are Stating it as a Fact. And it is not a fact that energy Beings don't exist. Same as it is NOT a Fact that Other Sentient Beings made of Matter do not a Exist. Even though we have not found them yet.

The reason it doesn't exist is due to just what energy is, not because we haven't found it.

That is severely Flawed. There is no Property of Energy to make it impossible for a Being to be made of it.

Err... what? The Higgs Boson is not 'pure matter', nor is it related to 'pure energy'. It is simply a particle (albeit one of great importance to the standard model).

Do you believe that Pure Matter Exists, at some level of splitting particles must reach a point where It is simply Matter.

Pure speculation (no pun intended). What evidence is there that there is a 'pure mass' particle, and a 'pure energy' quanta?

At some level Matter must be split enough to become something that is Matter. Pure Matter. Something gives MAtter, Matter and something Gives Energy its Energy.
Plus I think your missing my point. God is MAde of Energy, He has no Matter. That is waht I mean by Pure Energy.

Medieval cosmology basically involved spheres of existence and planes of being.

Ok, well thats similiar to Metaphysics.

You contradict yourself: do we inhabit one of them, or none of them? Moreover, what makes you think these 'planes' exist at all?

Nothing, they are a Philisophical Term to divide Humans from Higher, more powerful beings. It isnt a Physics Term. Using Philosophy, WE do inhabit one of them, obviously, A Higher Plane would be a 4 Dimensional Being that has higher Powers, This is what Most Christians Term God as, in a Higher Plane of Existence rather than different Dimensions.

My genome is largely derived from 23 of each parent's chromosomes (we have 46 chromosomes, half from mum, half from dad). Even though my genome is mostly derived from my parents, mutations (chiasmata formation, point mutation, etc) make my code unique. But even if I was a carbon copy of my mother, I would still not be made of her: she is her own body, composed of its own matter. Unless her body is surgically grafted to my own, I am in no way made of my parents.

Then we are not in Any way MADE OF GOD. WE came from his "Genetic" Material(do not take that term literally) but we are NOT made of Him then.
Your Logic.

 

[Benwilbur]

This, of course, is what happens when a conchordist view of scripture meets up with the real world. You get bad science fiction.

I do not understand your statement.

To say that God cannot be explained is Ignorance. Christians have been taught this because they could not Explain him at that time so they said that because the smartest people of their time could not explain him it must be impossible. God COULD not be explained then. But with modern Scientific advances.

if you went back 3000 Years ago and brought a flashlight or a Gun or a Plane. You would probably be called a God. And these "Magical" Devices you brought back would probably be called Magic or Power of the Gods. And it would be Unexplainable.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

No we see in 2 Dimensions. We can only look at 2 of the 3 Spacial Dimensions we exist in.

I disagree. I sense, using vision along, the 3D location of an object: it's called binocular vision.

If we are made up of Six dimensions we would then be 6 dimensional and therefore cast a 5 Dimensional Shadow and see in 5 Dimensions. But we only see in 2 Spacial Dimensions not 5.

On the contrary, there is no reason to suppose that the other three dimensions have anything of 'value': they could be so uniform as to be unimportant, or so small as to be insignificant at our scales.

Spacial dimensions cannot be smelled or heard.

On the contrary, I can hear with precision the location of a sound: in three dimensions. I am not restricted to "It's coming from my left".

You Assume that we would evolve to not see all the dimensions we exist in.

I am merely acknowledging it as a possibility.

My Statement was not to be taken that literally.

Yes, I realise that, but my point was that you presented a flawed analogy.

As a 4 dimensional being I cannot actually picture what 3 Dimensional Time would be like. And obviously Time is not a box. I am saying that if you exist outside of our dimension of time you can move around it as you please.

And what justification do you have for this?

This is not Time Travel in the way most think of it. No machine not even a real power. It is like the ability to "Walk" around time as we do space.

Again, what justification do you have for this? Just because something has several temporal dimensions doesn't automatically mean it can walk up and down our temporal dimension.

Also I am taking Scientific Theory and Law to explain How God could exist and To explain his abilities, powers etc...
I believe God, like us, is simply a Being, albeit a being that is FAR above us. But is a Being. Due to his power he is Worthy of our Worship. Same as we would be a God to a being with 2 Spacial dimensions and 1 Time Dimension.

My Statement is not Vague, But you have to understand Physics at least to a slight degree to understand this. It is an Explanation. In my Lifetime I have heard many people say that Certain things about Christianity oppose science in several fields. And I refused to believe it. and The Science of God was Born. God is not Unexplainable, everything about him is explainable if you simply Use the Brain God Gave you. And Yes my Beliefs do have Basis in Biblical and Scientific Systems.
The Bible states certain things then I Explain then Scientifically.

I am a physicist, and believe me when I say that you are quite mistaken in your 'scientific' explanations.

How do you know that. You are Stating it as a Fact. And it is not a fact that energy Beings don't exist. Same as it is NOT a Fact that Other Sentient Beings made of Matter do not a Exist. Even though we have not found them yet.

Again, you've misunderstood what I'm saying. I am not saying that "pure energy" beings don't exist because we haven't found them yet. I'm saying the don't exist because of the very definitions of life and energy.

That is severely Flawed. There is no Property of Energy to make it impossible for a Being to be made of it.

The laws of physics beg to differ.

Do you believe that Pure Matter Exists, at some level of splitting particles must reach a point where It is simply Matter.

Pure matter does exist: a block of pure gold is made of gold atoms, and nothing else. There is nothing but matter. Energy is a physical quantity, but not a distinct thing in and of itself. It is like displacement: two objects clearly have a quantity called "displacement" (i.e., how far apart they are), but it makes no sense to talk about "pure displacement". The same is true for energy.

At some level Matter must be split enough to become something that is Matter. Pure Matter. Something gives MAtter, Matter and something Gives Energy its Energy.
Plus I think your missing my point. God is MAde of Energy, He has no Matter. That is waht I mean by Pure Energy.

And my point is that the sentence "Entity X is made of pure energy" makes no sense. You may as well say "Entity Y is made of pure pain", or "Entity Z is made entirely of holes". It doesn't make sense.

Nothing, they are a Philisophical Term to divide Humans from Higher, more powerful beings. It isnt a Physics Term. Using Philosophy, WE do inhabit one of them, obviously, A Higher Plane would be a 4 Dimensional Being that has higher Powers, This is what Most Christians Term God as, in a Higher Plane of Existence rather than different Dimensions.

Then you are conflating philosophy with physics. It's also worth noting that there is exactly zero reason to suppose the existence of these "planes", any more than there is to suppose the existence of God in the first place!

Then we are not in Any way MADE OF GOD. WE came from his "Genetic" Material(do not take that term literally) but we are NOT made of Him then.
Your Logic.

Well, at least that's settled.

 

[Benwilbur]

I disagree. I sense, using vision along, the 3D location of an object: it's called binocular vision.

If you see a drawing that appears 3D it is still a 2D Drawing.
Your Eyes imprint a 2D Image on them not a 3D image. It appears 3D due to depth Perception

On the contrary, there is no reason to suppose that the other three dimensions have anything of 'value': they could be so uniform as to be unimportant, or so small as to be insignificant at our scales.

What?!?!?!?!? Dimensions aren't Seperate Places, If we were 4 Dimensional Space, then we would see 4 Spacial Dimensions. And we would be That many of dimensions. It is a simple matter of Logic. Not even Physics on that 1

On the contrary, I can hear with precision the location of a sound: in three dimensions. I am not restricted to "It's coming from my left".

Your Ears recieve sound waves, which ear recieves it first tells you from which direction it is. The 3D Objects cannot be heard. Hearing is only to sense Sound Waves. You do not Hear where an object is you only hear where the Sound Waves originated from.

I am merely acknowledging it as a possibility.

A Being is a Member of the Dimension he is or Percieves. We are not 5 or 6 Dimnsional and we cannot percieve these dimensions therefore we are not in them.

Yes, I realise that, but my point was that you presented a flawed analogy.

It is impossible to give a True depiction of Dimensions we cannot percieve.

And what justification do you have for this?

Justification??????
Temporal dimensions are like Spacial dimensions because of what a dimension is.
n Dimensions requires n points to pinpoint your location in the universe.
3 Temporal dimensions would require 3 points to locate your location.
It works very much as we do space. We need the x,y and z Axis of Space.
That is the essence of what a dimension is!

Again, what justification do you have for this? Just because something has several temporal dimensions doesn't automatically mean it can walk up and down our temporal dimension.

We cannot walk up or down in Our temporal Dimension because there is No Up or Down in our Temporal Dimension. We work in Linear Time. Therefore Time for us moves in a line form. Like 1 dimensional Space.
3 Dimensional Time would require 3 Points to plot the location.

I am a physicist, and believe me when I say that you are quite mistaken in your 'scientific' explanations.

No, I do not believe so. Everything I state is simple Scientific Law and Theory.
Plus if your a Physist why are you asking Some dumb questions, no offence
But some of the Questions you asked were quite simple to answer if you understand Physics. The Dimensions for Example are easily understood if you understand Physics. And yet the questions you asked about them are Very(no offence) but dumb ones. You do not seem to grasp the concept of Dimensions.

Again, you've misunderstood what I'm saying. I am not saying that "pure energy" beings don't exist because we haven't found them yet. I'm saying the don't exist because of the very definitions of life and energy.

That Definition of Life is a Human Definition of Life that states Life MUST be a certain way.
If something has the ability to learn and grow beyond what it was it is alive. Using Fuel is something we Need to live. What happens if one day Humans find a Way to live without Oxygen or Food. Would we then be considered not Alive.

The laws of physics beg to differ.

The LAws of Physics do not oppose what I am saying.

Pure matter does exist: a block of pure gold is made of gold atoms, and nothing else. There is nothing but matter. Energy is a physical quantity, but not a distinct thing in and of itself. It is like displacement: two objects clearly have a quantity called "displacement" (i.e., how far apart they are), but it makes no sense to talk about "pure displacement". The same is true for energy.

Energy exists, and a being could be made out of it. As we are made from MAtter. A Living Being could be made from Energy.
Perhaps a being made of Photons or Some other Form of Energy. By Pure Energy I did MEAN no Matter

And my point is that the sentence "Entity X is made of pure energy" makes no sense. You may as well say "Entity Y is made of pure pain", or "Entity Z is made entirely of holes". It doesn't make sense.

A Hole is a Lack of Anything. That statement would imply that Entity Z does not exist.
And Entity y Cannot exist as Pain for Pain is a Human Feeling Not and is more of a Word for intense Nerve Reactions. Not an actual thing.
Energy does Exist and Therefore life can be made out of it.

Then you are conflating philosophy with physics. It's also worth noting that there is exactly zero reason to suppose the existence of these "planes", any more than there is to suppose the existence of God in the first place!

I have tried telling you that I do not Agree with Many PArts of Orthodox Christianity, Including the IDea that God exists within our Dimension.
I do not Blend Philosophy with anything, I do not use it. I use PHysics.

Well, at least that's settled.

So we came from God, But we are not "Made" of God.
We are not Divine Beings. Does this answer that Previous Question.

 

[artybloke]

To say that God cannot be explained is Ignorance.

What, like a lot of people like you, are trying to, is to put God into a box. A box which contains your understanding of science and philosophy. One, frankly, that seems to owe more to Star Trek than to Hegel, or Heisenberg, or any more contemporary science or philosophy.

If you read the Bible as if it were a 20th century science text, as if it were talking about facts rather than telling stories that reveal truths, then you end up distorting the Bible and you end up distorting God.

God does not exist in some other dimension of spacetime, God created (or creates? or will create?) those dimensions. Always supposing they exist.

God isn't a "Being" whether made of energy or not. All that is Star Trek theology. Energy is something that exists in the created world, it is not the creator. Whatever it means to say that "God exists", it is not the same as saying a table exists, or heat exists or anything else exists.

You're essentially trying to fit God into the same logical positivist box as the atheist who says God doesn't exist because he can't find him through the telescope.

One thing that can be said with certainty about the ancient writers of Genesis is that they were poets and storytellers. They experienced God, not through the scientific method, but through poetry and story, through analogy and metaphor. They knew they couldn't look directly on the face of God and live. So they looked side-on, through poetry, through story.

Stop trying to put God in a box. Stop trying to understand him through science. If you want to understand God, think like a poet.

 

[Assyrian]

If you see a drawing that appears 3D it is still a 2D Drawing.
Your Eyes imprint a 2D Image on them not a 3D image.

Yes your eye is like a camera that registers a 2D image on the retina.

To be able to see in 3D you would need two cameras taking images at different angles with the brain trying to process the data taken from two different angles and combine all the information from two highly detailed non-superimposable images together. Clearly an impossible task.

It appears 3D due to depth Perception

By 'depth perception', you mean that as well as seeing width and height, we also 'perceive' depth?

 

[Benwilbur]

What, like a lot of people like you, are trying to, is to put God into a box. A box which contains your understanding of science and philosophy. One, frankly, that seems to owe more to Star Trek than to Hegel, or Heisenberg, or any more contemporary science or philosophy.

If you read the Bible as if it were a 20th century science text, as if it were talking about facts rather than telling stories that reveal truths, then you end up distorting the Bible and you end up distorting God.

God does not exist in some other dimension of spacetime, God created (or creates? or will create?) those dimensions. Always supposing they exist.

God isn't a "Being" whether made of energy or not. All that is Star Trek theology. Energy is something that exists in the created world, it is not the creator. Whatever it means to say that "God exists", it is not the same as saying a table exists, or heat exists or anything else exists.

You're essentially trying to fit God into the same logical positivist box as the atheist who says God doesn't exist because he can't find him through the telescope.

One thing that can be said with certainty about the ancient writers of Genesis is that they were poets and storytellers. They experienced God, not through the scientific method, but through poetry and story, through analogy and metaphor. They knew they couldn't look directly on the face of God and live. So they looked side-on, through poetry, through story.

Stop trying to put God in a box. Stop trying to understand him through science. If you want to understand God, think like a poet.

*sigh* You say God MUST be Unexplainable. Do you care to tell me where in the Bible it Says he CAN NOT and CAN NEVER be Explained.

 

[Benwilbur]

Yes your eye is like a camera that registers a 2D image on the retina.

To be able to see in 3D you would need two cameras taking images at different angles with the brain trying to process the data taken from two different angles and combine all the information from two highly detailed non-superimposable images together. Clearly an impossible task.

The Reason we can only see in 2 Dimensions is because we exist in 3 Spacial Dimensions. a BEing that Exists with 4 Spacial Dimensions would see in 3 Spacial Dimensions. Impossible for us in our Dimension, But Not for a BEing in a Higher Dimension.

By 'depth perception', you mean that as well as seeing width and height, we also 'perceive' depth?

We do not actually SEE Depth. Depth is simply using objects in their background and our basic knowledge about the world to tell how far away something is.
We tell by the size it looks on our eyes and use that to determine How Far away it is.
This is Basic Neuroscience

 

[Wiccan_Child]

If you see a drawing that appears 3D it is still a 2D Drawing.
Your Eyes imprint a 2D Image on them not a 3D image. It appears 3D due to depth Perception

Yes: we see in 3D. Our eyes detect a 2D plane of photons, but, because of binocular vision and our super duper brains, we see in 3D.

What?!?!?!?!? Dimensions aren't Seperate Places, If we were 4 Dimensional Space, then we would see 4 Spacial Dimensions.

Not necessarily. There may be nothing with length in the fourth dimension: all objects could have length in the x, y, and z directions, but not in the fourth w direction.

Your Ears recieve sound waves, which ear recieves it first tells you from which direction it is. The 3D Objects cannot be heard. Hearing is only to sense Sound Waves. You do not Hear where an object is you only hear where the Sound Waves originated from.

Yes, and that sense is three-dimensional .

A Being is a Member of the Dimension he is or Percieves. We are not 5 or 6 Dimnsional and we cannot percieve these dimensions therefore we are not in them.

Then you are using non-standard terminology. Something is deemed n-dimensional if it has length in n dimensions. A square is 2D because it has length in only two dimensions, whereas a 3D cube has length in three dimensions.

Justification??????
Temporal dimensions are like Spacial dimensions because of what a dimension is.
n Dimensions requires n points to pinpoint your location in the universe.
3 Temporal dimensions would require 3 points to locate your location.
It works very much as we do space. We need the x,y and z Axis of Space.
That is the essence of what a dimension is!

You miss my point. You said:

"I am saying that if you exist outside of our dimension of time you can move around it as you please."

What is your justification for this claim.

We cannot walk up or down in Our temporal Dimension because there is No Up or Down in our Temporal Dimension. We work in Linear Time. Therefore Time for us moves in a line form. Like 1 dimensional Space.
3 Dimensional Time would require 3 Points to plot the location.

Yes, but why would that allow the being to move along our temporal dimension at will?

Think of time as a conveyor belt: we move along a 1D belt that is constantly pushing us forward. If God exists on a wide 2D belt, that doesn't stop the belt from continuing the push him forward in the same direction as us.

No, I do not believe so. Everything I state is simple Scientific Law and Theory.

On the contrary, you have stated no scientific law nor any scientific theory. You have espoused a non-standard interpretation of the word 'dimension', made a myriad of unjustified assumptions

Plus if your a Physist why are you asking Some dumb questions, no offence
But some of the Questions you asked were quite simple to answer if you understand Physics. The Dimensions for Example are easily understood if you understand Physics. And yet the questions you asked about them are Very(no offence) but dumb ones. You do not seem to grasp the concept of Dimensions.

I don't understand your concept of dimension, but I'm quite well versed in the scientific concept of dimension.

That Definition of Life is a Human Definition of Life that states Life MUST be a certain way.

Naturally: all words are made by humans.

If something has the ability to learn and grow beyond what it was it is alive. Using Fuel is something we Need to live. What happens if one day Humans find a Way to live without Oxygen or Food. Would we then be considered not Alive.

Life is typically defined as a self-perpetuating pattern that metabolises its environment to sustain that pattern. Natural life evolves from metabolic replicators: a metaboliser that can reproduce, has reproduced, and/or is descended from a reproducer.

If humans find a way to live without oxygen or food, then we would need an alternative energy source: we would still be alive.

The LAws of Physics do not oppose what I am saying.

You said: "There is no Property of Energy to make it impossible for a Being to be made of it." Physics has a strict definition of 'energy', and this is not it. You are trying to make energy out to be some physical thing, when in fact it is more akin to displacement.

Energy exists, and a being could be made out of it. As we are made from MAtter. A Living Being could be made from Energy.

Faulty analogy: energy is not similar to matter in the same way protons are similar to neutrons. See above.

Perhaps a being made of Photons or Some other Form of Energy. By Pure Energy I did MEAN no Matter

Yet a photon is made of matter.

A Hole is a Lack of Anything. That statement would imply that Entity Z does not exist.

Precisely: to say that Z exists would therefore make no sense.

And Entity y Cannot exist as Pain for Pain is a Human Feeling Not and is more of a Word for intense Nerve Reactions. Not an actual thing.

Fantastic, you're finally learning.

Energy does Exist and Therefore life can be made out of it.

...

I have tried telling you that I do not Agree with Many PArts of Orthodox Christianity, Including the IDea that God exists within our Dimension.
I do not Blend Philosophy with anything, I do not use it. I use PHysics.

On the contrary, you have been rambling on about "planes of existence" and "pure energy". This is quintessential philosophy, and is quite far removed from physics.

So we came from God, But we are not "Made" of God.
We are not Divine Beings. Does this answer that Previous Question.

No. In what way did we 'come' from God? You seem to have contradicted your OP.

 

[Benwilbur]

Yes: we see in 3D. Our eyes detect a 2D plane of photons, but, because of binocular vision and our super duper brains, we see in 3D.

*Slams Head against Desk*
Our Eyes see in 1 Less Dimension that we are in. Plus our Shadow is in 1 Less Dimension than we are. That is a simple way thigns are.

Not necessarily. There may be nothing with length in the fourth dimension: all objects could have length in the x, y, and z directions, but not in the fourth w direction.

If nothing exists with a Certain Dimension that Dimension doesn't Exist.

Yes, and that sense is three-dimensional .

Well everything in our Dimension obviously has 3 Spacial Dimensions. In a Way yes it is 3 Dimensional.

Then you are using non-standard terminology. Something is deemed n-dimensional if it has length in n dimensions. A square is 2D because it has length in only two dimensions, whereas a 3D cube has length in three dimensions.

That is Mathematics not Physics. But they are Very Similiar.
A Dimension in Physics, Is How many Lines must be drawn in Space/Time to find the exact location of the point you are refering to.
For us we require 3, a y,x and z numbers. And for Time we can simply state a point in time. only 1 Number is required to plot a location in time.

You miss my point. You said:

"I am saying that if you exist outside of our dimension of time you can move around it as you please."

What is your justification for this claim.

I have explained Dimensions over and over why can you not understand this.
If you exist with 3 temporal dimensions. Then you need 3 Locations of "Lines" across time to plot a location in time. It is How Dimensions Work.

Yes, but why would that allow the being to move along our temporal dimension at will?

Because we can move freely around a 2D(spacial) beings world as we wish. I do believe that if Life exists in a 2 dimensional space(with 1 Temporal dimension) then it is inside our Universe. Dimensions are inside the Universe. A Being on a higher dimension can see and Interact with us and we can interact with beings of lower Dimensions.

Think of time as a conveyor belt: we move along a 1D belt that is constantly pushing us forward. If God exists on a wide 2D belt, that doesn't stop the belt from continuing the push him forward in the same direction as us.

We are Confined to a 1D time, therefore we cannot leave the "Conveyor belt" God being in 3D time. is not confined to the Conveyor Belt. and can move above, and to the sides of it. 3 Dimensions

On the contrary, you have stated no scientific law nor any scientific theory. You have espoused a non-standard interpretation of the word 'dimension', made a myriad of unjustified assumptions

No I used a Physics Version of the Word dimension.
I am simply using it to explain God.

I don't understand your concept of dimension, but I'm quite well versed in the scientific concept of dimension.

Obviously Not, For the Version of Dimension I am using is the Physics version.

Naturally: all words are made by humans.

I am not talking about the Word Life. I am talking about What we as humans Consider Life.

Life is typically defined as a self-perpetuating pattern that metabolises its environment to sustain that pattern. Natural life evolves from metabolic replicators: a metaboliser that can reproduce, has reproduced, and/or is descended from a reproducer.

Again that is What Humans Consider Life.

If humans find a way to live without oxygen or food, then we would need an alternative energy source: we would still be alive.

Humans require Energy to surive. Withour Energy we cannot Live. And therefore if someone was made of Energy they would be their own fuel.
Therefore Life can exist as Just Energy.

You said: "There is no Property of Energy to make it impossible for a Being to be made of it." Physics has a strict definition of 'energy', and this is not it. You are trying to make energy out to be some physical thing, when in fact it is more akin to displacement.

I know what Energy is. I have not Distorted it.

Precisely: to say that Z exists would therefore make no sense.


Fantastic, you're finally learning.

Your Statement was Flawed. a Hole is empty Space. And Pain Doesn't Really Exist as it is only a reaction in our Nerves.
Energy Does Exist and is There.

On the contrary, you have been rambling on about "planes of existence" and "pure energy". This is quintessential philosophy, and is quite far removed from physics.

What?!?!?!??!?!?!?! Have you not been paying attention.
Planes of Existence are Philisophical and I don't Believe in them!!!!!
Pure Energy in the Way I am using obviously doesn't Mean what you are saying it means.
I am using Pure Energy in its exact words. God is Pure Energy. This means that God is MAde of Energy and contains no Matter.
I Do not use Philosophy Often.
I stick ot Physics. I do not see where you get your Ideas that I do not use Physics in this.

No. In what way did we 'come' from God? You seem to have contradicted your OP.

That statement proves you do not understand Physics.
If you exist in a Dimension where Time is Irrelevant there is not actual beginning or actual End. Picture it like a Hallway you can choose where to go when you want to go to it. You do not have to End your Walk around Time. If Time is no longer relevant then You would not have a Beginning

For you would have always been there.

 

[Assyrian]

*Slams Head against Desk*
Our Eyes see in 1 Less Dimension that we are in. Plus our Shadow is in 1 Less Dimension than we are. That is a simple way thigns are.

Hurts doesn't it?

Our eyes see in 2D. However we have two eyes and each on sees from a different angle. Vertical is the same for both eyes, but each eye sees from a different horizontal angle. That allows us to perceive in 1 vertical and two different horizontal dimensions, which comes to 3 Dimensions in all.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

*Slams Head against Desk*
Our Eyes see in 1 Less Dimension that we are in. Plus our Shadow is in 1 Less Dimension than we are. That is a simple way thigns are.

...
No.
As I have repeatedly tried to tell you, that isn't how things work. At all. I don't know about you, but most other mammals see in 3D. You have two eyes which send visual data to our brains, which render a three-dimensional picture via parallax, 'edge spotting', etc.

I really don't know why you keep insisting that we see in 2D, when it's clear that we see in 3D. Can you distinguish between a photograph and a window?

If nothing exists with a Certain Dimension that Dimension doesn't Exist.

Not necessarily: an empty set doesn't cease to exist just because it's empty. A train track with no carriages doesn't pop out of existence just because it's desolate. Likewise, a dimension exists regardless of whether anything has length and/or position in it: dimensions are a property of spacetime, and it is only incidental that matter exists in it.

Well everything in our Dimension obviously has 3 Spacial Dimensions. In a Way yes it is 3 Dimensional.

Everything appears to have three dimensions. Physics tells us that there probably exist more, but we just never evolved to detect them (consider a wire: it is a 3D object with length, height, and width. But, from a very long distance away, it appears 1D: you can only make out a long 1D line. This is a good way to imagine the 'hidden' dimensions).

That is Mathematics not Physics. But they are Very Similiar.

To say the least: physics is the application of mathematics to reality.

A Dimension in Physics, Is How many Lines must be drawn in Space/Time to find the exact location of the point you are refering to.

That's coordinates, not dimensions. And neither of them are accurate: I only require two coordinates to locate a star in the sky (declination and right ascension), yet the whole celestial panorama can be accurately modelled as a three-dimensional array of zero-dimensional point masses. Likewise, because the temporal dimension and any 'bonus' spacial dimensions are the same for all objects, we can ignore them and only use three coordinates (Cartesian, spherical polar, etc). Time is a dimension, but it is not usually required to pinpoint an object's location.

I have explained Dimensions over and over why can you not understand this.
If you exist with 3 temporal dimensions. Then you need 3 Locations of "Lines" across time to plot a location in time. It is How Dimensions Work.

Even if that were true, one of those time dimensions moves everything inexorably forward in its direction: it is called the arrow of time. Just because an entity has other time dimensions doesn't mean it can go back and forth as it pleases. You have not justified your claim:
"I am saying that if you exist outside of our dimension of time you can move around it as you please." Indeed, you haven't even mentioned it in your last post.

Because we can move freely around a 2D(spacial) beings world as we wish.

Spacial dimensions are not temporal dimensions. Your analogy is flawed.

We are Confined to a 1D time, therefore we cannot leave the "Conveyor belt" God being in 3D time. is not confined to the Conveyor Belt. and can move above, and to the sides of it. 3 Dimensions

Yet another baseless claim. If a conveyor belt is 1D, then consider 3D time as an ocean. 'Our' temporal dimension moves things inexorably along it, so think of it as an underwater current moving the everything in one direction. Movement in the other two dimensions (up/down, and left/right) is otherwise normal, but movement in the first dimension (forward/backward) is not: the current moves things inexorably forward.

So how, then, does bonus time dimensions help anything?

No I used a Physics Version of the Word dimension.

I beg to differ. Which textbook did you get it from?

Obviously Not, For the Version of Dimension I am using is the Physics version.

...
No, you're not. You think that dimensions cease to exist if there's nothing in them, which is completely different to how physicists use the word 'dimensions'. Rather, we use to to refer to a property of spacetime.

I am not talking about the Word Life. I am talking about What we as humans Consider Life.

They are the same thing.

Humans require Energy to surive. Withour Energy we cannot Live. And therefore if someone was made of Energy they would be their own fuel.
Therefore Life can exist as Just Energy.

Invalid conclusion: you falsely assume that a being could be made of just energy. Given what energy is, such a being could not exist. A being could be made of energetic stuff, but not pure energy. You may as well say a being could exist that's made of pure height: a being could be tall, but "pure height" makes no sense.

I know what Energy is. I have not Distorted it.

On the contrary, you are use the word as if it refers to a distinct physical body, rather than a relative quantity.

Your Statement was Flawed. a Hole is empty Space. And Pain Doesn't Really Exist as it is only a reaction in our Nerves.
Energy Does Exist and is There.

On the contrary, energy exists only insofar as it is a measure of potential and kinetic differences. The energy of a particle is determined entirely by what 'zero' energy is defined as. For example, it is common to define the ground state of an atom as having zero potential energy, and the state above it as having ε potential energy. This is a completely arbitrary (albeit useful) decision. Likewise, the kinetic energy of a particle depends entirely on which inertial frame the velocity is measure from: if the inertial frame is on the particle, then it has zero kinetic energy. If it is on Earth, and the particle is sitting on the surface of the Moon, then is has E = ½ I ω² energy (provided the particle isn't moving relative to the Moon, and is sitting on the line joining the Moon's centre to the Earth's).

The amount of energy something has is completely dependant on where and how you're measuring: it's as relative as velocity. You cannot have a being made of 'pure energy', nor can you have a being made of 'pure velocity'.

I've put this in red because I think it may help you understand just what we physicists mean when we talk about energy, and why you are not using the technical definition.

I am using Pure Energy in its exact words. God is Pure Energy. This means that God is MAde of Energy and contains no Matter.

Then God doesn't exist . I know what you're trying to get at with the phrase "pure energy", but I'm trying to explain to you why such an attempt is futile: energy is not a distinct thing, any more than velocity or electromagnetic charge is a distinct thing.

That statement proves you do not understand Physics.
If you exist in a Dimension where Time is Irrelevant there is not actual beginning or actual End. Picture it like a Hallway you can choose where to go when you want to go to it. You do not have to End your Walk around Time. If Time is no longer relevant then You would not have a Beginning

For you would have always been there.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Since when did I say time is irrelevant?

 

[Benwilbur]

Hurts doesn't it?

Our eyes see in 2D. However we have two eyes and each on sees from a different angle. Vertical is the same for both eyes, but each eye sees from a different horizontal angle. That allows us to perceive in 1 vertical and two different horizontal dimensions, which comes to 3 Dimensions in all.

Technically though, our eyes do see in 2D and that is what I was saying.

 

[Benwilbur]

...
No.
As I have repeatedly tried to tell you, that isn't how things work. At all. I don't know about you, but most other mammals see in 3D. You have two eyes which send visual data to our brains, which render a three-dimensional picture via parallax, 'edge spotting', etc.

I really don't know why you keep insisting that we see in 2D, when it's clear that we see in 3D. Can you distinguish between a photograph and a window?

Your Eyes inprint a 2D image on each eye. not a 3D one. This 2D image is like a Photogragh. Then they relay that data to the brain.
Our Brain can use these images together to tell distance(depth perception)
But our Eyes technically do imprint 2 D Images on them.

Everything appears to have three dimensions. Physics tells us that there probably exist more, but we just never evolved to detect them (consider a wire: it is a 3D object with length, height, and width. But, from a very long distance away, it appears 1D: you can only make out a long 1D line. This is a good way to imagine the 'hidden' dimensions).

If you want, I can explain God using your statement.
We have not evolved to the level of God then.
So we cannot see the dimensions he can.

That's coordinates, not dimensions. And neither of them are accurate: I only require two coordinates to locate a star in the sky (declination and right ascension), yet the whole celestial panorama can be accurately modelled as a three-dimensional array of zero-dimensional point masses. Likewise, because the temporal dimension and any 'bonus' spacial dimensions are the same for all objects, we can ignore them and only use three coordinates (Cartesian, spherical polar, etc). Time is a dimension, but it is not usually required to pinpoint an object's location.

Mot True to locate a star in the sky if you only give 2 Coordinates you will not find the star.
say if you giv the x and y coordinates. You will be missing the z. And therefore Will not find it.
I am talking about reaching a position not looking at it.
Coordinates are directly related to Dimensions.
Time is required if to pinpoint an objects location.
If you say look at this x,y and z coordinates. They do not have the Correct Temporal dimension.
Obviously they expect you already to know the correct Temporal Dimension, ASAP.

Even if that were true, one of those time dimensions moves everything inexorably forward in its direction: it is called the arrow of time. Just because an entity has other time dimensions doesn't mean it can go back and forth as it pleases. You have not justified your claim:
"I am saying that if you exist outside of our dimension of time you can move around it as you please." Indeed, you haven't even mentioned it in your last post.

Time is like a Conveyor Belt to us. But in reality if you exist outside of it. You dont just watch it move. Time to God would be like a Line and every point would exist for him at the same moment(to his perception)

Spacial dimensions are not temporal dimensions. Your analogy is flawed.

No they arent Spacial dimensions. But if you exist in a 3 Dimensional Time. Then that would imply that Time can be measured in 3 Dimensions lets say an a,b and coordinates.

...
No, you're not. You think that dimensions cease to exist if there's nothing in them, which is completely different to how physicists use the word 'dimensions'. Rather, we use to to refer to a property of spacetime.

Lets say you can see 5 Dimensions, this is including your dimension that has nothing in it.
Every object you find actually can be measured in 4 Dimensions.
So the being is in the 4th Dimension, and is unaware that he can see a dimension that has nothing in it.

So if we can see 4 Dimensions we will never find out for every object we come across will have 3.

They are the same thing.

No they arent.
What we think is life is not what Life IS.
Humans think all life must be similiar and carry the same properties as us.

Invalid conclusion: you falsely assume that a being could be made of just energy. Given what energy is, such a being could not exist. A being could be made of energetic stuff, but not pure energy. You may as well say a being could exist that's made of pure height: a being could be tall, but "pure height" makes no sense.

What about Light, a Being could be made out of Light. or Heat.
If you wish, again, I can use this to explain God.
Lets say God is made out of a being of Matter. But is so far above us, he can control The Energy to make matter.

Then God doesn't exist . I know what you're trying to get at with the phrase "pure energy", but I'm trying to explain to you why such an attempt is futile: energy is not a distinct thing, any more than velocity or electromagnetic charge is a distinct thing.

Then read above.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Since when did I say time is irrelevant?

I never said you said Time is irrelevant. I said Time is Irrelevant.
If you exist outside of Time you are not confined by it.

 

[Mallon]

Just thinking aloud here:
If we want to bring science into our understanding of God, then I don't think we can take the position that God is energy. Energy (as well as time, space, and matter) came into being with the Big Bang, which had its origination some 14 billion years ago. An eternal God therefore could not be made of energy, since He existed prior to the creation of energy. He created energy.
Besides, the Bible tells us what God is. God is spirit (John 4:24). God is love (1 John 4:14). These things cannot be measured with tools of science.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Your Eyes inprint a 2D image on each eye. not a 3D one. This 2D image is like a Photogragh. Then they relay that data to the brain.
Our Brain can use these images together to tell distance(depth perception)
But our Eyes technically do imprint 2 D Images on them.

Yes. But we ultimately see in 3D. Each eye detects a 2D plane of photons, and our brains interprets both planes to generate a 3D realm. This realm is called vision. We see in 3D: this is accomplished by two eyes working together. It is the same vague principle as parallax.

If you want, I can explain God using your statement.
We have not evolved to the level of God then.
So we cannot see the dimensions he can.

Very good. You are finally using 'dimension' in the correct context.

Mot True to locate a star in the sky if you only give 2 Coordinates you will not find the star.
say if you giv the x and y coordinates. You will be missing the z. And therefore Will not find it.

I am not talking about Cartesian coordinate, I am talking about equatorial coordinate system. If I want to locate a star (including its distance from the Earth), I need only its right ascension, and its declination.

I am talking about reaching a position not looking at it.
Coordinates are directly related to Dimensions.
Time is required if to pinpoint an objects location.
If you say look at this x,y and z coordinates. They do not have the Correct Temporal dimension.
Obviously they expect you already to know the correct Temporal Dimension, ASAP.

Again, you need to rethink your understanding of coordinates.

No they arent Spacial dimensions. But if you exist in a 3 Dimensional Time. Then that would imply that Time can be measured in 3 Dimensions lets say an a,b and coordinates.

Correct. But that doesn't mean you can move freely about them. Our temporal dimension, for instance, moves everything inexorably forward. Just because an entity can move freely in the second and third temporal dimensions doesn't mean it can move freely in our temporal dimension.

Lets say you can see 5 Dimensions, this is including your dimension that has nothing in it.
Every object you find actually can be measured in 4 Dimensions.
So the being is in the 4th Dimension, and is unaware that he can see a dimension that has nothing in it.

So? That doesn't mean the dimension doesn't exist. In this hypothetical, spacetime is ultimately 5D, regardless of whether we can detect it, or whether anything has length in it. You previously said that, if nothing "is in" a dimension, then that dimension doesn't exist.

No they arent.
What we think is life is not what Life IS.

Oh please. Life is whatever we define it to be.

Humans think all life must be similiar and carry the same properties as us.

No, we don't. I really recommend taking a course in linguistics, physics, and English.

What about Light, a Being could be made out of Light.

Light is made up of matter: photons.

or Heat.

Heat, like displacement, is merely a property of matter. It is rather complicated to properly explain 'heat', so I recommend another course: "Thermodynamics, statistics, and entropy".

If you exist outside of Time you are not confined by it.

If an entity exists "outside of time", then it can do absolutely nothing. It cannot change, it cannot enact change. It is completely immobile, and completely impotent.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Just thinking aloud here:
If we want to bring science into our understanding of God, then I don't think we can take the position that God is energy. Energy (as well as time, space, and matter) came into being with the Big Bang, which had its origination some 14 billion years ago. An eternal God therefore could not be made of energy, since He existed prior to the creation of energy. He created energy.
Besides, the Bible tells us what God is. God is spirit (John 4:24). God is love (1 John 4:14). These things cannot be measured with tools of science.

On the contrary, the unit of 'love' is the stare. One stare is defined as the number of Care Bears required to cheer up a five-year-old who just missed the Ice Cream Van, via a Care Bear Stare.